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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 3:21:56 PM
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with unfulfilled desires piled up like Mt.Everest?
What does it matter if he practices yoga or not? He is certainly doomed isn't he. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 3:34:55 PM
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Hi Maximus....
Noone is doomed. Everyone is where they need to be in order to eventually remember their true nature. If yoga practices resonate with "he", then yoga is a good idea even if there are mountains of unfulfilled desires.
Love,
Carson |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 3:50:57 PM
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| he is a hungry ghost with volconaic hunger but no mouth to eat. certainly doomed. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 3:56:40 PM
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I will answer by referring you to this passage from the "Ra Material/The Law Of One" taken from here:
http://www.lawofone.info/results.ph...18&sc=1&ss=1
excerpt:
18.5Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here that I will read: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds the belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for the individual to reach ‘nirvana,” as it is called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities to aid an individual to grow more into the Law of One?”
Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.
The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One, thus preserving the primal distortion of free will.
The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming, thus, creates the further environment for holding on to that which apparently has been overcome.
All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate distortion shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
Love,
Carson
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Edited by - CarsonZi on Jun 17 2009 3:57:16 PM |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 8:30:04 PM
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When desires fall away on their own, what is that called? How would Ra respond? Would he/she/they say that I must get myself some desires back? The Path of the ascetic is as ancient as all the other spiritual disciplines. I believe it just happens to call to some people, perhaps it is a different kind of passion/desire. Certainly it can go to extremes in the case of some who, most probably, have some form of obsessive compulsive disorder. But trimming life down to the bare necessities, in my opinion, has merit and worthy of some consideration. There is nothing like the feeling of being free from something that once held you in bondage.
Love to all,
Jill |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 9:25:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
he is a hungry ghost with volconaic hunger but no mouth to eat. certainly doomed.
Only if he holds on to his foolish desires for things he cannot have.
But if he uses this feeling of futility as a reason to let go of the desires, then he is not doomed.
If you decide "I can't have anything I want, so i will learn to live anyway" you will be surprised what will happen.
You may have to go through this several times though, because as soon as you let go of the desires, you will probably be tempted with them again. Something will tell you "Sure, you can still have those things, see?" And it will try to lead you down the path where you are doomed again. Been there!
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2009 : 11:03:06 PM
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No thoughts of doom = no doom.
Desires are thoughts; doom is a thought.
Concepts like doom, or even death can be imagined ... but they can't be real.
Bodies come, bodies go; worlds arise, worlds dissolve ... eternally, now.
Only Life Is.
It's an amazing thing when awareness ceases identification with the conceptual.
... for the most wondrous truth of all is discovered anew -- eternally untarnished and whole:
The conceptual is the only so-called place that one can appear to be "lost" ... the only "place" there is a "we", or a "me" who can be lost.
Universes arise; Universes display, Universes dissolve.
Only Life Is.
You can't be doomed; you can only "think doomed".
You can't be unenlightened; you can only "think unenlightened".
Only Life Is.
That's All.
What is Life?
Life is Now.
What is Now?
I AM.
One Life, One Love, One Heart, One AUM,
Kirtanman |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2009 : 12:56:13 AM
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Both the guys above are talking like you can simply alter what you are thinking now and be good. But this can only be possible for already liberated men with no latent impressions. For all others, latent impressions define what they are, why they are born, why they will be reborn. Not thoughts. Thoughts are fickle and unsatisfying. Latent impressions can't be eradicated even by deep samadhi (mentioned in YOga sutras). Only right action can. And a withered old man is obviously not very capable of huge actions.
With huge desire for hot chicks, for example, one can't let go of the desire by altering his thought. For the deep desire is not resident is thoughts - it is resident in his being, and perhaps one of the the reasons for his birth. By having failed to satisfy it in his lifetime, he has wasted a lifetime. Hence he is doomed. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2009 : 06:26:20 AM
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What if you are wrong in your assumptions, Maximus?  Could that be possible? That you got it all wrong?
What if that sexual desire is a sign of great spiritual potential lying in the lower chakras, boiling, sexual energy about to transform, and therefore is intensifying?
In my experience, when we feel doomed... we just interpreted something a little wrong... |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2009 : 09:29:54 AM
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I'm not assuming anything. Topics like chakras or sexual transformation don't mean much to me. I'm talking practical life. Who deludes himself -
A man who had deep desire for hot chicks but didn't have the balls to go for it, and thinking himself to be smarter than the guys hitting the nightclubs, engaged in yoga and tantric masturbation all life, and ends up being a withered old man one day, and then near deathbed as he feels the pain of his life breath being drawn away and experiences chocking and suffocation while slowly dying, and suddenly realizing the full pain of death - even in this tumultous pain, sees a hot chick passing by on the street and feels his heart ache for her, and knows with a heavy heart while he is passing away that he will return once again and experience this unbearable pain of death.
Or
The bad guy who knew what he wants, pursued and got hot chicks, never heard of yoga or meditation, and when on his deathbed experiencing the same pain of death, and when a hot chick passes by, only slightly raises an eyebrow and thinks 'Gee, I'm done with these beauties. I've had enough of them and I don't have to be born again and go through his horrible pain of death. These chicks are not worth enough for me to go through this pain another time' and dies peacefully.
Wouldn't you say the former guy doomed himself by inaction ? He is a hungry ghost. |
Edited by - Maximus on Jun 18 2009 09:41:00 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2009 : 10:27:15 AM
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I still think the end part of the Ra quote is what you are looking for....
quote:
It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.
Love,
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2009 : 11:32:50 AM
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Hi Jill....
quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
When desires fall away on their own, what is that called? How would Ra respond?
Ra would say that that is called one of the fruits of a daily meditation practice.
Love,
Carson
P.S. I don't think "Ra" has all the answers and I hope you don't think I was trying to imply that.....I just thought that this particular passage applied to this thread, and that it was accurate according to my personal experience. |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Jun 18 2009 11:33:38 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 18 2009 : 11:44:17 AM
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Hi Maximus:
Your story is not very realistic because the desires of an elderly person are not the same as the desires of a younger person. Not even close. They have been cultured by long experience and by present circumstances. This is why the elderly are generally regarded to be wise, in spite of apparent difficulties.
We can try and project our current state of mind into an old age mode, and make a bad or good story out of it. But the truth is we will not know what it is like until we have made the journey ourselves.
All of which is to say, better to focus on our own life in the present and do what we can to open it to the truth that is beyond all stories. If we have the opportunity to help the elderly, much wisdom can be gained by empathizing with their situation, rather than projecting a story onto it from our limited point of view. It is your choice, of course -- to suffer or not with a self-made reality.
But I have to tell you, we are here to learn from life in every moment, not to decide anything about what it is or is not supposed to be. The mind makes a good servant, but a terrible master. From the perspective of abiding inner silence (the witness) this becomes crystal clear.
Therefore, build your house on the rock of stillness within you that is beyond the mind. Then you will find some peace.
There is far greater power in listening than in deciding. So be still and listen...
The guru is in you.
PS: And, yes, by all means, live life fully as you see fit.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 12:06:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
Both the guys above are talking like you can simply alter what you are thinking now and be good. But this can only be possible for already liberated men with no latent impressions.
The concept that changing thoughts can only help those who are liberated from latent impressions, is itself a thought.
Maya is thought.
Identification with the objective *is* Maya.
Bondage to hedonism or asceticism is still bondage.
Right action is determined by right thought.
Right thought is determined by right action.
Practices & Inquiry.
Kriya & Jnana.
Object & Subject.
Finding the gap in the thought stream opens the door upon which life is eternally knocking, now.
Meditation is the surest way to find the gap - to gap the mind.
Bit by bit, it's seen that we are not the thoughts - we are the space in which the thoughts arise, disintegrate and arise anew.
"Hot Chicks" are an object, a concept in your mind.
Attachment is bondage.
Aversion is bondage.
So what to do?
Drop the concept of "Hot Chick" - meet the woman, the Goddess; love her - know her - *see* her; drop all boundaries is utter vulnerability and *be with her* in the most loving way the moment calls for and allows.
On the "other side" of any attractive female smile and body is a human being - often confused and desired-filled and in need of loving connection (in an amazingly identical manner to the way most men experience life) -- and, yet -- at the same time, as full of the potential for enlightenment and liberation as the rest us, male or female.
People tend to objectify people and life ... and thus miss connecting from-with-as the reality displaying as people and life.
Women and men aren't nearly as different as cultural lies would have us believe. Neither are people of different age brackets or cultures.
Stop seeking to get, and begin giving.
Giving is the great secret of manifesting power - the true "secret".
You want love?
Be loving.
You want peace?
Give peace.
You want enlightenment?
Give, share, connect and offer the highest and best and most inspirational truth you've been graced to know.
At the root of humanity is desire.
At the root of desire is thought.
At the root of thought is language.
At the root of language I AM.
Enlightenment isn't so much attained as backed into -- "back away" from the veil of Maya; before the thoughts, before the doubts ... and be the knowing of This Loving Awareness.
There has never been an old man, or woman -- or a young man or woman -- who felt doomed in a moment of giving true loving -- whether volunteering at a homeless shelter ... or smiling --- sincerely -- at an anonymous "hot chick" (aka a human woman who has likely been conceptualized into a sexual object all her life).
And sexual objectification isn't bad --- it's sexual objectification.
However, if you can manage to drop it entirely, not only will you brighten the heart and life of every woman you ever know .... you'll also never get the chance to desire connection with women again .... you'll be too busy fulfilling it ... in a way that even the gods bow to (as the gods bow to women who see and connect with men as people) .....
... there's no "them" -- there's only us, here.
It's all about dropping the thoughts that block reality -- for then, authenticity and union are revealed in all their glory.
And by the way ---- have you ever considered what a "latent impression" actually is?
It's a "frozen thought" -- a thought stored in the long-term memory of the body mind ... the creator of karma.
Latent impressions are unfrozen and dissolved indeed by right action ..... by yoga practices .... by AYP.
Which opens the gate to silence and productive inquiry.
Which opens the gate to This That I Am.
You can deny that it'll work for you, as long as you like.
And Enlightenment and Liberation; Liberation and Enjoyment will still be your true nature -- and will still be right here waiting, as ever.
Enlightenment is who you *are* --- you can't escape it.
Sorry to be the bearer of good news ......
And, by the way -- the age-perspective thing is kind of amusing; "old" and "40" seemed to be equated in one post. I'm 47, and have never been younger. Not "felt younger" - "been younger". I've felt smaller (when I was a little kid) - but never felt younger, fresher. Awareness is ever-new; "old" is a concept; you can "think old", but you can't "be old". When you're in your twenties, forty can seem old; when you're in your forties, probably "not so much".
For instance, in imagination, when I was seeing the "old doomed man" Maximus was postulating-or-whatevering ... I was seeing a guy in, like, his *80s* -- not his *40s*!
In moments of non-thought -- Awareness is experienced Now, and as Now. I'm not even "old" (or whatever) when I notice "my" body ... I'm old *if* create a sense of past/time *and* compare that thought to thoughts of the "ages" of other body-minds, in my - which can only happen ... NOW.
When thoughts truly unravel and begin to be seen through .... illusion gets harder and hard to create.
Easier to just relax into enlightenment.
And to enjoy the beauty of every moment, of every "age" of human life.
The term "wasted youth" is usually used to refer to a human who didn't use their younger life to "make something of themselves", to become a "productive member of society". True wasted youth is spending youth (or any other biological age) lost in the thinking mind, and thus missing out on every moment of real living -- that's available, really, in every moment of living reality - aka now.
What could be more doomed than a withered old man?
(and listen up - this is being written from the perspective of a withered old man! <- Joke; couldn't resist; didn't want to ...  )
... a "withered" young man, who spends time imagining withered old men, rather than simply living, unbound by concepts and imagination.
Granted, the "young man" is only withered (and young, for that matter ...) *in* thinking mind .... the only place "withered" appears to exist.
Unenlightenment is a LOT harder to attain than enlightenment -- yet, most of us have gotten so good at it -- it's really quite amazing from the perspective of the chokehold of thinking-bondage being loosened.
Enlightenment, liberation and bondage -- samskaras, samsaras, samadhi - oh, my! All words, all concepts, all descriptors -- perceived variously, misunderstood almost totally.
In reality, there's only now -- and experiencing it -- dreaming, bound, as the thinking-concept known as "me", or actually living this moment as it is (I was going to add "unbound" - but that only applies in relation to "bound" - both are concepts.)
Reality is infinitely deeper, more vast and more real than the thinking-me can imagine; yoga (example: A Y P) allows us to know this, as our true self - in real life. Not only is this worth everything ... it's the only known cure for withered-old-man syndrome (which, obviously, can affect young men, too!)
In the words of the great 20th century female sage, Lalita Devi:
"Just jump in! THAT is the great yoga!"
Bowing to the Heart of Love That Is All of Us, Now-
Kirtanman
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Jun 19 2009 07:26:54 AM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 01:34:53 AM
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Hello Yogani:
I was not generalizing about all withered old men (I know you are old :-)) I was talking about only those old men who didn't life to the fullest and ended up being old and with unsubdued desires (there was only so much space in the subject line - probably it conveys wrong topic alert) . I'm sure there are such men, I have come across many such men who out of lack of foresightedness made wrong choices and lived with it (including wrong LTRs) and regretted much later in life that they did things differently when they were younger. I don't take your word that the story is unrealistic, its just probably you haven't come across such old men. On dating advice forums for example you could find 40+ year virgin men who lament that they had let their life pass-by and now only to regret.
You yourself in one of your webpages have said that Sankaracharya said that a man can't look at a beautiful woman without his seed jumping. Getting old doesn't change that. Getting over it by doing the required things alone does. |
Edited by - Maximus on Jun 19 2009 02:57:54 AM |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 03:28:19 AM
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There are also people who have already "lived life to the fullest" and haven't found satisfaction in hot chicks, fast cars, champagne, cigars and big houses. You can cover your suffering with these temporary enjoyments for a while but eventually everything ends in a bitter taste. Even if you become the ruler of this world and have all the biggest mansions and prettiest models, underneath it all there will always be something missing.
There is more to a woman than just her vagina and breasts. She also has a soul and her essense is divine. Finding the right partner which you can serve can indeed be difficult and can take time. Maybe even more than one life. But saving and cultivating energy (thus transforming your desires to higher and higher states of expression), even with tantric masturbation if necessary, is preferrable to expending your life energy for temporary enjoyments with various partners. Men who constantly ejaculate have relatively weak willpower and cannot achieve much in this life, they shorten their lifespan and their kundalini cannot rise higher than the svadistana chakra. This may mean nothing to you, but chakras and sexual transmutation are very practical in the life of many people on this forum. |
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miguel
Spain
1197 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 04:12:14 AM
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quote:
So be still and listen...
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Edited by - miguel on Jun 19 2009 05:02:07 AM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 06:30:41 AM
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Chiron,
YOu missed the point. If you read the story I posted you will see that the guy who went after his desires and got abundant of it to be point of getting bored was able to let go of it at the time of death, while the other guy hadn't crossed this step. He was still at the bottom of the stairs. No one says the staircase will be your permanent residence, but you gotta climb it, right?
I agree that ejaculation is draining. One doesn't have to. Simple. |
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grihastha
USA
184 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 08:42:18 AM
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Why is the man who spent his life in clubs, getting it on with all those 'hot chicks' supposed to be better off on his deathbed? His epiphany is simply self-satisfied misogyny.
You've set up your old man for an epiphany, but you make it a negative one. Why?
Why, after a life of spiritual work, does he find his all-consuming regret to be that he hasn't exploited women for his own selfish gratification? Doesn't seem very likely to me.
He's a renunciate. Of course he has unfulfilled desires. That's the point of renunciation. The point is not to lose the desires but to resist them - and hopefully one passes beyond desire, but essentially it's a mechanical process. And he's succeeded in cultivating his ojas if nothing else.
Regret for this life is different to fear of the next.
Of course the real goal is to move beyond both...
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 1:43:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by grihastha
Why is the man who spent his life in clubs, getting it on with all those 'hot chicks' supposed to be better off on his deathbed? His epiphany is simply self-satisfied misogyny.
He was alert enough to realize it was stupid to go this this painful death and birth again and again for the sake of these women. He had reached the point of letting go because of his complete mastery of the steps from making the first eye contact with a women till mating with her. So he was able to think 'This is all it is, the game of attraction and mating, what the heck'. You need not assume that this guy used to waste semen, he might have mastered ejaculatory control. Again, remember this is not fully possible for men still with unquenched desire as despite their daytime willpower, they wake up with wetness between their sheets.
The other old man that deluded himself was not a true renunciate. He was attached to his opinions and beliefs, most likely, fear of approaching women, though he wanted to. Bhagwad Gita says a devotee of the Lord had no fear. Bible says so also. He failed to live a practical yogic life. Even though he read in the Yoga sutras that Purusha(the subject) is unconditioned by space and time he lived inside his conditioning and never got over it. Even though Jesus said 'Except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter the kingdom of heaven' he did not behave like a innocent little child who just went after what it wanted, unconditioned by conditioning. You might have known that little children will hold on adamantly to their new toys and it will be near impossible to have them put it down by force. But if you let them play with it for a while then they will lose interest in it and put it down. |
Edited by - Maximus on Jun 19 2009 1:50:55 PM |
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cosmic
USA
821 Posts |
Posted - Jun 19 2009 : 9:20:03 PM
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Hmmm... This conversation is too hypothetical/conceptual for me...
But from personal experience, I can say that there is value in hitting "rock bottom". It sounds like either of the examples you mentioned can lead to that (the man who chased women his whole life and the one who regretted not doing so).
In other words, both the 40+ year old virgin and the Hugh Hefner type can both reach the same conclusion, IMHO. Are they doomed? Who knows? What do they choose to do with that realization?
Maximus, is there a concern that lead you to this question?
Peace
cosmic |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2009 : 12:57:55 AM
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I can't believe I have had such a hard time trying to convince people that the withered old man is doomed. Obviously many of you don't see that action and inaction can't possibly produce identical results in the end.
I know what I write below won't interest many of you. But I know this will be in the best interest of withered old men that are not finished with their desires, so I write. Obviously he has wasted a lifetime and he is entirely at the mercy of the forces of karma whether and when he will ever get reborn to fulfill his desires, that too as a human being, that too in a healthy body. Obviously there are far too many souls out there waiting to take birth so this man if he were to be granted a chance again will stand at the far end of the queue. And logically souls that have more 'merit' but not yet finished on earth (a.k.a. didn't waste their life, like the other bad guy in my story) will deserve to stand in front of him in the queue even if he dies much later, because the 'jury' (whatever it is) will see this strong man as more capabale of finishing his rebirth cycles on earth.
The jury might even decide to disintegrate the soul of the old man instead of surviving it as an entity, depending on since how many lifetime he has been failing to get over with this desires (According to Bible atleast, the soul can die, only it doesn't have to, if it were on the right path).
The only safe course for this old man I can think of is if he had mastered some power over death, like conscious dying so that he can pass through death conscious and choose a next life for himself, instead of leaving it to the jury. Ofcourse the law of karma is just, so the supreme effort of will he will have to do this exercise will be greater than the effort he would have spent all life going after what he wanted, if he had gone, that is. That is my humble opinion. I can't think of any other guaranteed way of survival for this poor soul. |
Edited by - Maximus on Jun 20 2009 03:22:30 AM |
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2009 : 05:15:08 AM
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| Hi Maximus, you said "You might have known that little children will hold on adamantly to their new toys and it will be near impossible to have them put it down by force. But if you let them play with it for a while then they will lose interest in it and put it down." Are you saying that glutting desires is the only way to overcome them, or do I misunderstand? All The Best dfb |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2009 : 07:17:20 AM
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My opinion is that desire exists only as long as we don't understand something fully. You lose the compelling desire to eating sweets when you understand that it is just a food item made with a particular mixture good tasting ingredients, and you just get a temporarily pleasure in the tongue when the saliva comes in contact with the sweet. Do you think you could make a person get over his desire for sweets without ever letting him have a bite, but just dictating what a sweet is made of? That I would say you are introducing an artificial distinction between 'doing' and 'understanding by sitting aside'. When your real purpose is to set yourself free don't need such artificial doctrines. As all scriptures declare the world is an illusion, how could there be a solid wall between doing and imagining doing? Observe the process of enjoyment while chewing the sweet and you will naturually overcome the compulsion.
Added: I remembered a story that might be relevant. At college there was this roommate of me who was losing hair and did not like it. At class when he had doubts he would become selfconcious about raising attention of everybody and the teacher and keep quiet. At the hostel he would be very upset that he couldn't even clear his doubts. He was continually angry with this and was always obsessed with this thought after every class. Then from one particular day he could no longer live this sh!tty life, and he started asking questions whenever he had doubts. He observed he didn't die and that he had made his own mental jail. He started asking more questions, intelligent questions, pointing out mistakes in lectures and he was even considered to be by many to be a pain-in-the-ass for the lecturers. Sometimes he would be a little arrogant and pointing out mistakes in lectures when one could have just ignored the small mistake. But he did it sometimes as it made him feel better. He told me his heart would race and voice break in the initial days but he later got over it as he realized it was all in the mind. Slowly he got over this aggression and his 'need' for causing pain to the lecturers; as he said 'any idiot could do it; why was i so obsessed with not being able to do it' and even lost the interest for it . Now he would only ask questions when it was genuinely necessary to undertand a point. He did go to the "other mental formation" of regarding himself as a "bold guy" unlike the "uncomfortable guy" before, but only for sometime. He ultimately rejected both mental concepts and was freed from it. He could never have done this without taking his baby steps. |
Edited by - Maximus on Jun 20 2009 08:39:15 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2009 : 11:48:38 AM
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Hi Maximus:
Pursuing desires is part of the mechanics of going beyond them, but since desires are endless, the pursuit will be endless if an additional element is not brought in. That element is abiding inner silence, and with that the nature of desire and its fulfillment is fundamentally changed.
So, while you are making a lot of mental logic about life, death, karma and reincarnation, you are missing the essential point. A five dimensional puzzle cannot be solved in four dimensions. See here: http://www.aypsite.org/36.html
We cannot know the mystery until we become the mystery. It is very simple. Meditate!
The guru is in you.
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2009 : 1:06:47 PM
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Yes I'm a twice-daily meditator. I have exaggerated in my story that the bad guy never practiced meditation at all but we all know that without some kind of insight cultivated during his lifetime he couldn't have raised himself above his desires at the time of slow death.
But then again... here is what David DeAngelo, a famous dating & seduction guru on the internet said in one of his email newsletters - "One of the best things you can do for yourself is to get the phone number from a beautiful woman, and THROW IT AWAY. Tell youself you are not in need for their company, you can go and have it any time you like (he implies using his techniques)" . I don't know if David DeAngelo meditates or not, but his words appear wiser than any guru (dating or the swamiji type!) can ever make speak me. Even most ascetic saints can't throw away the number of a beautiful women, you know that.
You yourself have written in one of your lessons that there is no point in desiring to permanently go away through the tunnel at the center of the forehead, because our unfinished business on earth will call us back. You can verify that all my talk in this thread is nothing but the same thing you talked about in that lesson. Only I have predicted a bigger doomsdom for the one that knew what his heart desired but did not go for it and became an old man physically not capable anymore.
This settled, frankly though, with all due respect I think you are a bit over-obsessed with meditation and the nervous system thing. When a grandfather on deathbed tells his grandson 'Don't worry boy about my passing away boy, I have lived a good life.' would you say the % of truth would be any different in his words whether or not he was a meditator? I doubt. As you mentioned in the radio show, a sincere mother is also devoted. In God's eyes I think her merit is evaluated by her actions and sincerity, not by the amount of stillness she has inside. Besides it would be naive to assume she don't have inner silence just coz she don't meditate. As anyone who has done some kind of small sacrifice for others knows, that also brings about an inner peace similar to the one meditation produces (Renunciation is better than meditation: Bhagwad Gita)
Or certain TV shows on Discovery channel could trigger insights deep inside - the sea fish that travel thousands of miles to go to the rivers to lay eggs, and certainly die of exhaustion or eaten by the bears, and the hatched fish travelling all the way back to the sea. The memory of that episode triggers me to see through life's apparantly perceived cozy comfort. |
Edited by - Maximus on Jun 20 2009 2:47:41 PM |
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Who can be more doomed than a withered old man
