|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 11:01:00 AM
|
Starting AYP meditation reminds me of my TM phase.
TM as it was presented to me, didn't have the pranayama or hatha yoga but was an inner mantra practice, 20 min 2x a day. I've noticed that both mantras release knots of tension in the nervous system on every intonation.
My TM mantra actually had the same syllables as IAM, but in a different order.
Perhaps TM and the Maharishi aren't flawless perhaps, but they have many insights and studies that may be complementary to the AYP approach. I've heard that their levitation program has really taken off, btw.
I'm trying to remember why I didn't stick with TM. I think it was that I was bored with the slow progress I was making.
-Yoda |
|
|
riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 12:56:36 PM
|
Hi Yoda,
I went on a w/end retreat with TM and we did hatha and pranayama so i guess it depends how far you go into it.
L&L
dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
 |
|
|
Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 1:47:45 PM
|
| Yes, I didn't get very far with it. Good to know they have a complete system. Ever try to fly? My TM instructor said that she had hopped around in her room once. |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 2:03:19 PM
|
By the way, there are those who think that Maharishi has started to lose his marbles. There are others who wonder if he has any marbles left. There are a lot of serious problems going on with the organization.
Many think he has treated his teachers terribly. One of them is a friend of mine, so I may feel strongly about it. There are some recent developments which are very sad.
The teachers all had to pay high fees to learn to teach TM, and I believe they only got paid through getting a cut of the teaching fee. So they had no security. Now Maharishi has priced the lessons out of the market, so they can't make money this way any more. To add to that, he has recently decreed that they must all requalify. That is, they have to pay their high teaching fees again and go through the entire learning process again, as if they forgot it all. So this friend of mine forewent her nursing career for that, and is now sixty and nearly penniless, and there is nothing she can do about it.
|
Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 31 2005 2:11:00 PM |
|
|
|
Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2005 : 8:27:25 PM
|
| I've never known what to think about the Maharishi, but even if he has gone to the dark side, I'd like to think that his efforts have had a strongly net positive effect on the world. |
|
|
|
Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 06:55:03 AM
|
Whatever his motives or present state of mind TM was definitely a landmark in global awareness.
I discovered TM with thousands of other people in the early days, and it was my fist introduction to deep meditation and the best way I found before AYP.
Blessings
RICHARD |
|
|
|
riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 09:59:47 AM
|
Dear David,
In the UK it costs £1200 to learn TM now according to their web site.I was given intiiation and training for Kundalini Maha Yoga by my guru for free and it is the most powerful meditation I have found.I teach the same system over 4- 2hr sessions and charge £20 but then again I'm not a millionaire like the maharishi.I have regular contact with my guru sometimes daily and it costs me nothing for her grace.When I went to India I paid £240 for 2 weeks full board, (3 meals a day) and for shaktipat.This was the sum my guru suggested I gave to guruji which I was only too happy to pay.I spent another 4 days travelling and staying in her relatives houses, visiting temples,a visit to Shirdi, and meals and it cost me absolutely nothing.I doubt if anyone can convince me that all guru's are the same.I have a friend who lived in the Maharishi university on the siddhi program for around 2 yrs and his levels are nothin compared to what he has achived since changing to KMY which again costs him nothing.In his book 'Shakti, an introduction to Kundalini Maha Yoga' Dhyanyogi quotes a student who asked "what does the guru get from this". To which he replied " the guru is not there to gain anything he is there to give".
All you can give is your love and respect and that is enough in my experience.
L&L
dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 10:52:54 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Yoda
I've never known what to think about the Maharishi, but even if he has gone to the dark side, I'd like to think that his efforts have had a strongly net positive effect on the world.
Yes, Yoda, to dark side he has surely gone I fear.
Of course, it's not the Hollywood dark side of wilful evil..... But a few decades of inculcating the notion that you are the supreme realizer, and surrounding yourself only with people who buy it, eventually took its toll. What we have now is a very powerful fellow who rather remorselessly has deprived many former devoted helpers of their livelihood.
Richard, it's true that he did a very important thing, or was the instrument of an important doing. But I want to say that that stands as it is, and the current situation of darkness and dysfunctionality stands as it is too --- one does not erase the other.
-D |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Nov 01 2005 1:17:05 PM |
|
|
|
Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 12:51:29 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Richard, it's true that he did a very important thing, or was the instrument of an important doing. But I want to say that that stands as it is, and the current situation of darkness and dysfunctionality stands as it is too --- one does not erase the other.
-D
100% agreed David
RICHARD |
|
|
|
trip1
USA
739 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 1:46:43 PM
|
While we are on the subject, I purchased Maharishi's book, "The Science of Being and the Art of Living", on a whim one day at a local new age bookstore, but haven't had the chance to read it yet. I didn't know much about the book when I purchased it, but while researching the subject on the internet, I have read a lot of mixed feelings on Maharishi and TM in general.
I have been meaning to give it a read (after I complete a few other books) since I noticed that Yogani called this book "a classic" in lesson 253, but the more I hear about it, the more I think I might be better off reading something else. Any feedback on the subject would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 2:54:00 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by trip1
While we are on the subject, I purchased Maharishi's book, "The Science of Being and the Art of Living" ... I have been meaning to give it a read (after I complete a few other books) since I noticed that Yogani called this book "a classic" in lesson 253...
Hi Trip:
It is a classic because it is one of the few books written in the 20th century that makes the case for pure bliss consciousness (inner silence or "Being") being the ground state of all existence and the ultimate source of all our progress and happiness. In the West, this was revolutionary at the time (1960s), and paved the way for the entire consciousness movement that went into high gear during that period.
Interestingly, advanced quantum physics has come along and all but verified the ground state consciousness premise in the years since. (Hey, what the bleep do they know? )
I think the points of view expressed in this topic about the TM organization are realistic on both sides. It is a great teaching that has suffered due to many missteps in the marketplace.
So the world moves on ... thankfully a much better place because of the hard work and sacrifices of so many.
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 10:42:32 PM
|
quote:
(Hey, what the bleep do they know? )
http://www.whatthebleep.com/reality...epbook.shtml
If anyone ever tells you your genes or astrological influences will hold you back, tell them to go away. Never let anyone ever tell you you can't do it. If God tells you that you can't do it, tell him/her, "I am coming in anyway." That is bhakti. It will not take "no" for an answer. The stars, our genes, and even almighty God cannot resist the power of bhakti. The parent cannot resist the incessant cries of its child. That is the truth - Yogani |
|
|
|
nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2005 : 10:45:49 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
But I want to say that that stands as it is, and the current situation of darkness and dysfunctionality stands as it is too --- one does not erase the other.
-D
just like good karma doesnt erase bad karma |
|
|
|
antarananda
7 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2005 : 8:10:31 PM
|
My first foray into meditation and exploring spirituality in my life was through TM, when I visited and got initiated at the center on campus while an 18 year old medical student. Back then, since it was in India, it cost me only Rs. 100 (less than $3), but now I too have observed the increasingly unaffordable fees being charged for learning TM here in the US. When I was practising TM, which I did off and on for over a decade, I did find it brought a pleasurable peace of mind; however, I cannot really say that it was particularly powerful as a spiritual practice in my experience. Yet, different people have different results, and a friend of mine used to experience intense visions of light through practice, so who knows?
I agree with what has been said about the movement; this tends to be the typical scenario when a movement becomes so huge in its spread. The politics were one reason why Deepak Chopra left in the 80s to pursue his own personal path. However, all said and done, it is thanks to Maharishi that there is such widespread awareness of the Indian Vedic knowledge tradition. He has singlehandedly managed to spread awareness about not only meditation, but also allied sciences such as Ayurveda and Jyotish.
As yogani remarked, The Science of Being and Art of Living is a classic which brought about a quantum shift in thinking back in the day. In my personal opinion, Maharishi prepared world consciousness for the next level, and present-day seekers are extremely fortunate to be among Masters who are initiating them into even more powerful techniques for realization of pure consciousness. Indeed, transmission of Shakti is happening in a very direct manner now. These are blessed times for those who remain receptive to the flow. |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2005 : 11:54:53 PM
|
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hari Om
~~~~~
Pranams on this Thanksgiving eve.
Much can be said about TM. I can speak from my experiences that have extended over a long period of time, but let me be brief.
Maharishi-ji
Maharshi-ji is one individual that lives Brahma-vid, of this, there is no doubt in my mind. I have no desire to argue this point as it becomes only a dual in words and not worth the effort expended.
I give him [[Maharishi-ji] the utmost respect for his efforts to bring as much good to the family of man as possible.
Regarding TM organization
If the "movement" , as it used to be called, is going sideways, its is by those still housed in avidya (ignorance). I concur that some things do not make sense, in fact I have a laundry list I will restrain my self from depicting.
Such is Kali Yuga and can be seen not only in this organization ( originally called the Spiritual Regeneration Movement) but in every walk of life.
Regarding Books
Not only is the Science of Being And Art Of Living a most evolved book, so is his Bhagavad-Gita. One of the best insights I have read on this matter in 30 years and re-read it often. Only a sage of enlightened vision would have the insights into the Bhagavad-Gita that Maharishi-ji calls out. ( simply brilliant). I have read 4 or 5 different versions by various punditji many times, yet none can compare. Why is this? Because Maharishi-ji speaks from the level of Brahman that Krsna articulates in this 700 verse epic.
Many miss his book on Love and God - if you are one that speaks from the heart, you may find this book enjoyable.
Yet one book that is hard (or impossible)to find was published in 1968. A small group of folks talked to Maharshi in the Sequoia National Forest. The book is called Meditations of Maharshi Mahesh Yogi. He discusses the Veda's, bliss consciousness. Just a delightful book. I am a better person for reading it.
Let us all on this AYP find a teacher-guru as capable as Maharshi-ji (this would be called a srotriya-brahmanishtha-guru or one that is established in Supreme Brahman and master of the Ved) and let us all become the best students (adhikari sishya) or a student possessing the 4 fold qualities for learning.
Shanti
Frank in San Diego
|
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 12:27:36 PM
|
quote:
becomes only a dual in words and not worth the effort
that's a particularly nice misspelling!! :)
also, re: commentary on the Gita, check out Swami Dayananda if you get a chance. If you don't know, he's one of the most respected "old school" vedanta teachers in India, and he speaks particularly well to the west (though his english teachings never pander....his american students are half indian and half non-indian).
He's got several volumes of commentary (and there's a complete "home study course"that's expensive but worth it), but you may want to start off by ordering a tape...like most traditional vedanta teachers, dayananda's got a great borscht belt delivery with his anecdotes).
The arsha vidya book store is at http://books.arshavidya.org
choose "Arsha Vidya Books".
|
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Nov 24 2005 12:38:53 PM |
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 12:41:05 PM
|
| are you sure you got the title exactly right: "Meditations of Maharshi Mahesh Yogi"? It doesn't google at all. |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 3:13:08 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~~
Hello Jim , (et.al)
Jim, thx for the note on my spelling  - after I posted it I realized that I mistyped dual for duel. We could play around with it extentially!! probably not worth the BTU's.
Any way - I am looking at the book "Meditations of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi" Bantam Books publisher, with no ISBN number. THe book is a little 4"X6" book. I Have read it so many times I had to rebind it.
The only number I see is P4282 on the inside - also , it was a whole $1.00 to purchase in '68 .
Let me take one excerpt out of Chapter one:
"There is nothing in the cosmos, either in the material plane or in the spiritual plane which connot be directly cognized. [The] Veda's provide a direct method of direct cognition of material existance in this unlimited cosmos and also they provide a direct technique to cognize that which is evenly permeating, evenly pervading the entire physical structure of the cosmos; That all pervading reality, Almightly God."
Re: Bhagavad-gita recommendation and Swami Dayananda - I will pursue, Thank you.
The Gita ( Or the song of the Lord) is called the cream of the Veda's. Reading it is a delight. I have found so many versions that believe Arjuna was despondent, kinda confused , etc.
Maharishi shows a different POV and Arjuna's brilliance as a sisya and devadasa. At the very end it is clear that Arjuna hits the mark and he informs Krsna " May dear Krsna my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by your mercy and I am now firm and free of doubt..." Arjuna is now a SELF realized being and is prepared to follow Keshava's guidence.
thanks again for the note...
OM Brahmavit apnoti param - the knower of Brahman attains the Supreme - Taittirya Upanishad
Frank in San Digeo
|
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 4:00:43 PM
|
quote:
Any way - I am looking at the book "Meditations of Maharishi Mahesh Yogi" Bantam Books publisher, with no ISBN number. THe book is a little 4"X6" book. I Have read it so many times I had to rebind it.
We need to put up a page on this site somewhere listing "books frank has needed to rebind"! ;)
Ok, I'll find that book somewhere...
quote:
The Gita ( Or the song of the Lord) is called the cream of the Vedas.
And "Om" is the cream of the Gita. You don't hear that much in yoga circles, but there's a tradition of considering distillations of distillations of all these sutras, and "om" is deemed the final distillation. |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2005 : 6:41:40 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~
Hello Jim ( all) on this Thanks Giving.
This wonderful Pranava, Om, as the essence of the Gita is a delight to talk about. It is spoken of in the Mandukyopanishad.
" OM is all this. All that is past , present and future is verily Om". Om, is the only name (one and the same) as Brahman .
In the Gita, Krsna says "Aksharanam akarismi" - amongst the letters I am the letter A. Akshara means imperishable, and is equal to the Ekaksharam syllable Om.
What is of interest, Krsna is also known as Keshava - or one with beautiful hair - this also means Ka = Brahma a= Visnu and isa= Siva, as He is all 3.
So what's the connection ?
Om - AUM - has 3 parts associated with Brahma, Vishnu and Siva, yet there is a 4th part called Amaatra, or without measure, and is the silence at the end of OM, Turiya Atman - Brahman. Krsna is the Absolute, the All - Brahman, represented by OM, and ending back in silence of the 4th part, the transcendent Turiya Atman. So is the brilliance of the Gita, and the Mandukyopanishad.
Thank you for bringing this up!
Hari Om Tat Sat
Frank in San Diego
|
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2005 : 01:02:09 AM
|
....or drop the insights and erudition and simply realize that "Om" is the natural sound your body makes without any effort (though most hatha yogis turn it into a much more striving sound.....a lesson there!).
It's a nice step toward surrender. Frank, you know a TON. You're an incredible resource for us all. But as the jazz musicians say, once you've learned it, you've got to forget it! ;) :) |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2005 : 8:56:18 PM
|
Hari Om
~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
.... But as the jazz musicians say, once you've learned it, you've got to forget it! ;) :)
Hello Jim,
Thanks for the reply ... I think I would say " once you learned it, pass it on"
Being a guitar player myself (mediocre @ best) the shoe fits! Once you "learn it" to me means, you have incorporated it into your memory banks... now, when possible, pay it forward.
... the teacher gains more the the student.
thanks again.
Peace,
Frank in San Diego
|
|
|
|
vijayppt
India
1 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 12:22:07 PM
|
Hi frank,
Frankly telling,i enjoyed your explanation of OM i gita and mandukya.And the fourth letter amaatra and turiya is something new to me.Anything about practising the om chanting to realise this amaatra?Then it will be very useful.If not ,then also its inspiring.
thanks.
vijay kumar |
|
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2005 : 1:06:29 PM
|
| I enjoyed it too, fwiw! :) |
|
|
|
Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2005 : 09:35:41 AM
|
Hari OM
~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by vijayppt
Hi frank,
Frankly telling,i enjoyed your explanation of OM i gita and mandukya.And the fourth letter amaatra and turiya is something new to me.Anything about practising the om chanting to realise this amaatra?Then it will be very useful.If not ,then also its inspiring.
thanks. vijay kumar
Namaste Mumuksu,
With your request lets take turiya (or the 4th) first... a new post on amaatra will then make sense.
Turiya or the 4th level of consciousness is called Turiyatit Chetana or Cosmic Consciousness, once stable and part of ones daily silence.
On the way to God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana, there are certain levels of experience and consciousness the aspirant ( sadhu as they are called) will experience, a specific quality of the doer (us).
This is called naishkarmyam, a quality of non-attachment, where the doer enjoys freedom and the non-binding influence of actions.
So what is binding? - cause and effect. Rebirth into ignorance(that is, not knowing ones SELF). Unfulfilled desires is the reason one comes back to earth they say. So , How is this adjusted? This naishkarmyam experience of Self-consciousness ( but not yet God Consciousness or Bhagavat Chetana) is not overshadowed by any other state of consciousness e.g. waking dreaming or sleep. So why is this of any interest? Well, the evolution to God consciousness requires this level (naishkarmyam) to be established, as it forms the foundation for God Consciousness. the SELF finds itSELF separate from the field of activity. It's underlying nature, and a quality of GOD as being all-pervasive. The SELF or Pure consciousness, is everywhere (like akasha or space, everywhere).
So , we begin to experience HIM within our SELF as separate from activity, a very personal experience. This is the experience of PURE CONSCIOUSNESS, or the Absolute, HIS transcendental form.
NOW,once this level of consciousness is stable ( called Turiyatit Chetana or Cosmic Consciousness), the individual can now go to the the next level, God Consciousness .
What that means is this Pure consciousness begins to be experienced through the senses. The eyes see HIM in HIS creation, the nose smells HIM, etc etc. His creation gets experienced buy the individual from a whole different level of appreciation - as an extension of ones SELF, which is HIM. (e.g. Divine Union) The person delights in his own SELF. Fullness of Life is reached 100% of the relative field of life ( Cars, family, job, expansion) is United with 100% of Pure Consciousness called SELF.
[ What is missing today, is the Pure consciousness part, that is why life/society is so unbalanced , we're missing the 200% formula]
What's the non-attachment deal? Well once you have established this consciousness, the individual (small) self becomes SELF. Your actions are in accord with Nature or the cosmic purpose ( dharma, expansion of happiness, Bliss, Sattva). You are doing HIS work.
Every thing becomes and extension of HIM and as the Veda's say a person does the "Highest Good". You have basically "non-attached" from the 3 Gunas that cause re-birth again and again ( this, in my humble estimation, is God's compassion for us to try again to get it right - it is said that "no effort
is lost" - so if you get to the 20 yard line and ya don't get to Cosmic Consciousness, it stays on your credit and is rolled over... )
Some key tenets on this ... some folks over the millennium read the instructions for this and thought this state of consciousness is a "Mood" or behavior to emulate... so the thought was to become "non-attached" or act without desires. This is not the instructions.
Some thought that one had to become a recluse - not so , its a level of achievement both recluse and householder can enjoy. The key here is to "withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal" or transcend, then come back into activity and perform actions - infusing more and more Turiyatit Chetana into ones daily life - kinda like bleaching a piece of cloth in the sun , over time, the cloth turns white.
Last point - the SELF realizes itself to itSELF. We can only provide the runway or conditions for this to occur - hence mediation, prayers,(japa -or repetitions), reading scriptures, all conditions we do to set up the SELF to realize itSELF by itSELF.
patu sarvaih svarupair nah sada sarvatra sama-gah
May the Lord, who is all-pervasive in His various forms, protect us everywhere
Frank In San Diego
|
|
|
|
mystiq
India
62 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2005 : 04:30:22 AM
|
Thanx for all the information. After listening to Deepak Chopra I thought I was missing a lot in life for not doing the TM porgram. Then I found AYP and Im very happy.
mystiq |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
TM
