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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 03 2009 : 12:08:02 AM
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I appreciate Yogani's recent posts about modifying AYP practices when necessary: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....ID=5103#5103, but I think overall there is tremendous benefit from sticking to the script as described in the Main Lessons unless unusual circumstances like the below warrant making changes.
The thinking mind loves nothing more than to tinker and believe better ways are known or to ignorantly lose faith when temporary obstacles present themselves. On days we are "over" in practices (sometimes unknowingly) we can feel like things aren't working well when overall they are. I think a lot of time can be saved by following the footsteps of one who has already tread the path, gone down the many dead ends and understands what works, what doesn't and why. That said, there are some rare times when things aren't working as scripted, so I share the following for those who are very sensitive to meditation.
About a year back my girlfriend started practicing AYP deep meditation, fairly regularly, probably once a day an average of 5 days a week doing 10 minute sessions.
It became evident once she became regular in practice within a couple of months that she was extremely sensitive to the effects of meditation and experienced many signs of being over like: irritation, emotional turbulence, confusion with the purpose and meaning of life, etc. She took a couple of weeks off, stabilized and felt good again, then reduced time down to 6 minutes and continued to practice. Again, within a few weeks, the same symptoms presented themselves. It wasn't obvious at first, because neither of us expected only 6 minutes of deep meditation to be so powerful for her but each time she repeated the process she would exhibit classic signs of being "over".
This is a slightly simplified version but she also tried spinal breathing a few times during these cycles as we were trying to figure out what was or wasn't working and even only a minute or two would give her similar symptoms of being "over" in practices almost immediately. On days where she added in an asana class, she would also show symptoms shortly thereafter. So the writing was on the wall that she couldn't continue to meditate the same way though she still wanted to, realizing the long term benefits of it.
So with some feedback from Yogani, the idea for her to do a "lite" version of meditation was introduced where she simply sat for 6 minutes a day bringing attention back to the breath whenever she noticed the mind wandering. I have since learned that this is similar or the same way that the Buddha taught meditation.
She practiced this "lite" method of meditation for approximately 3 months and was extremely stable the entire time. She then announced one day that she wanted to go back to the "i am" meditation and did, starting with 6 minutes a day and has now been at that for probably 2 months and remains completely stable, her longest stretch yet with AYP even when a lot of asana classes are added into the equation which was not possible previously. Recently she announced she wanted to increase her time with DM so is now moving cautiously in that direction since she is enjoying the benefits of practice and doesn't want to jeopardize that.
For whatever reason, it seems that she wasn't able to do AYP DM right off the bat, but with some time with the "lite" version was able to practice and reach a point where she could practice the "i am" meditation with stability.
So for those who find themselves in the very sensitive to meditation group and can't find stability using the core AYP practices, doing the "lite"/ breath as the mantra version might be a good alternative until stability is found or even longer if it is working well. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2009 : 07:47:08 AM
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Hi Anthem,
Your post came in perfect timing for me.
I have always been sensitive to practices as well and I know (or guess) why. I came to AYP and Yoga with many constrictions and obstructions in my system and saw DM slowly dissolving them. I could never add pranayama as well, as much as I wanted, as even literally 1 or 2 bretahs was usually enough for me to feel overloaded. I take it easy and been sticking with DM for 10 min twice daily and that has been my comfort zone for the past 8 months since I started.
But now I feel I am going through a lot of purification. I definitely started a new phase and I have to self-pace accordingly. I feel slightly more out of balance now, although (probably because) I can go deeper in meditation and even found some little advances in spinal breathing (ecstasy and the ability to do full 2 minutes! although I have to quit the next day again  ).
So I want to further back on meditation as well for some time until things settle down and your approach seems promising. So your girlfriend would just use the breathing as it was the mantra and do this for 6 min right? And a question: did she do it once or twice a day? And if only once a day even with only that time a day she could find progress?
Thank you very much,
YIL |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2009 : 08:24:33 AM
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quote:
So your girlfriend would just use the breathing as it was the mantra and do this for 6 min right? And a question: did she do it once or twice a day?
Hi YIL,
Yes this is correct, she went to bringing the awareness back to the breath whenever she noticed she was away in thoughts and did this once a day on most days an average of 5 days a week.
You might consider reducing your time down to 5 or 6 minutes with the AYP deep meditation prior to switching over to the "lite" version as an option. If you still can't find stability with the shortened routine, then perhaps that would be the time to switch to the "lite" version for a while?
quote:
And if only once a day even with only that time a day she could find progress?
This is hard to answer, there certainly has been lot's of progress over the last year, but difficult to ascertain the amount during the months she did the "lite" practice. We have observed an increased capacity to do DM so that in itself shows some change and progress.
I have noticed a significant amount of progress over the last two months since she has settled into the AYP DM.
Best of luck! |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2009 : 09:41:23 AM
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I have had two phases where, for reaons I cant exactly explain, I was FED UP with the IAM mantra. I don't think it was so much overdoing it in the traditional sense - I think it was moreso that I took it to extremes and started trying to hard and too much energy started to build in my head leading to way too much thinking. I would find it unbearable to do the IAM meditation either because I would get headaches, it would make me think even more, or it would create even more expectations.
Both times this has happened I adopted the Buddhist-style breath meditation and found it be a help. It was something that I never had the intent of carrying out any defintite amount of time, but it allowed me to maintain the meditation practice that helped me all this time, but since it was different from my routine it felt fresh. Interestingly, I have always come back to Mantra Meditation...it just feels right to return and it always feel good. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 4:50:19 PM
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I just noticed this old threat and thought it appropriate to follow up.
In the long term, the person who I was speaking about above, now my wife, settled with breath meditation as she was unable to stay stable with mantra over the long term.
Overall, though she is not particularly consistent with her practice. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 8:19:28 PM
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Anthem, interesting post.
The ultra-sensitive seeker is in a catch 22.
If one practices, they experience a multitude of symptoms.
If they cut back practice to almost nothing, they feel fine but make no progress.
In my experience, the only way to overcome this is to forge ahead in a reasonable manner, being judicious with practice and constantly monitoring one's mindstate. The ultra sensitive seeker has much to suffer but also much to gain. They will experience spiritual intensity that rivals the saints. Indeed, if you look at the stories of the saints, they were likely ultra sensitive people. Hence, the suffering. And the reward. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 11:06:49 PM
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Not sure they are in "a catch 22" as long as they find a practice that they are able to do consistently. Practice can take many forms, especially with inquiry. So even though formal sitting practices might not be happening, inquiry in a variety of forms may be happening, acceptance and surrender can expand etc.
I agree with you, that as long as the desire is there to forge ahead, that is what matters.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 7:55:19 PM
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| Anthem, inquiry is great, but without the associated biological changes, true progress in yoga cannot be made. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2011 : 11:51:45 PM
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It all depends on what you mean by true progress in yoga. From my perspective, I would word it the other way around, yoga creates true progress.
Biological change can come from any type of letting go which leads to release of energy, increase flow of energy and expansion of consciousness. Yoga postures, sitting practices and breathing can all contribute and accelerate this process as can inquiry. Most people who practice inquiry at some time or another will directly perceive the release of energy that can occur. Don't get me wrong, I would adopt a multi-practice approach to biological transformation over a single approach each time given the choice. All will contribute to biological change, just to varying degrees. |
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chit-ananda51
India
127 Posts |
Posted - Mar 26 2011 : 11:51:04 PM
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thanks Anthem for sharing the experience of your over-sensitive girl friend. I might take something from this for my self-pacing  |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 27 2011 : 2:40:08 PM
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Hi chit-ananda,
I have been on the AYP "Lite" program myself for about 3 months now. I had self-paced down to 6 minutes of deep meditation using the "i am" mantra and that eventually became too strong as well.
So after 6 years of pranayama, dm, samyama etc., I am now doing simple breath meditation for 6 minutes as described in the lessons, twice a day. So far I have been able to find tremendous stability for the last 3 months of practice which is very encouraging because I was wondering if i would be able to continue to meditate at all. I am also able to resume asanas practice for longer than a few minutes as well.
I find this practice to be delivering lot's of positive results so far.
Best of luck!
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2011 : 12:27:03 PM
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2011 : 7:15:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tonightsthenight
Anthem, inquiry is great, but without the associated biological changes, true progress in yoga cannot be made.
Hi Ttn,
It depends on what stage you are at, and since they are talking about sensitive meditators, I would assume they have either found inner silence, or are experiencing overload and have to cut back. So I think either of those cases could experience progress from inquiry and other less potent practices that wouldn't do much for less sensitive people IMHO. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Apr 27 2012 : 2:30:59 PM
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I just wanted to up this post, as I've been on 'AYP Lite' or similar for almost a year. Hoping some extremely oversensitive meditators like myself might stumble across this and find it useful, as it seems we are a bit rare.
Overload for me takes the form: Very blocked and stuffy head and headaches, mental dullness, absolute depression/desolation and emptiness, no interest in life whatsoever, and a desire for liberation so intense that I start having emotional breakdown, becoming mono-maniacally obsessed. Then all the body wants to do is meditation and eat sattvic diet, the mind simply cannot stop aggressively doing spiritual practices and thinking it is somehow going to "find" a solution, by reading and applying the next book on non-duality or awakening or finding the next talented spiritual teacher. Really it isn't helpful, beyond the fact that I've read the works of almost every worthwhile spiritual teacher on the planet, so I have a good idea of who are the best teachers to follow.
The desire for liberation is strong enough as it is, without having to go through this unbalanced and painful experience, in which I'm unable to function. It almost becomes a form of nihilism.
Current practice is:
2-3 mins of pranayama
10 mins of choiceless awareness meditation (just sitting, just allowing). Sometimes breath-watching, but I find just sitting more effective.
Self-Inquiry (who am I? who is aware of this experience? to whom are these thoughts occurring?) I probably ask these questions with sincere desire to know, 20 to 50 times per day, attention naturally goes to wondering who is perceiving the experience
Intensive examination of experience, and inquiry into experience (Currently working through Greg Goode's book The Direct Path: A User's Guide) - for example, I'll look in the mirror, and say: this is a visual image of a reflected room and a human face, can I find a self in this image?
This routine is stable enough for me, if I feel overload, I just cut it back to a maybe 2 minutes of choiceless awareness. Or just stop the practices for a day or two.
I was on the breath-watching for some time, but I personally prefer the choiceless awareness. There's a natural inclination to sink into deep stillness, choiceless awareness just allows that happen.
I absolutely cannot do "I am" meditation. I tried just doing a few seconds of I am, midway through choiceless awareness or breath-watching, and BOOM! My head is sad and achey for the rest of the day.
I don't seem at all prone to "energy" experiences. Yes, there's a light current of ecstatic pleasure in the body, most of the time. A lot of shivers up and down the spine, and a pervasive, subtle cold tingly feeling through the body that goes with it. Otherwise, that's it. Overload definitely takes emotional forms rather than energetic ones with me, mainly obsession and depression. A kind of state of highly-strung, nervous imbalance.
I've also found that rather than rigidly timing my meditations, I can actually feel the point at which I'm about to overload, and intuitively know when is the right time to stop.
So just wanted to share my experience. I can't say what I do is right or wrong, or that it will work for anyone else, but it's definitely been helpful for me to read other peoples experiences and get ideas. This "AYP Lite" post helped me, because I desperately didn't want to stop AYP altogether (particularly not pranayama), and I figured keep the SBP and use a less intense form of meditation, and so far - I think it's working.
More and more freedom as the months go by, with the odd break-through experience of "seeing" beyond the veil of illusion, these experiences are pretty hard to describe.
I definitely have found it a great help to integrate self inquiry recently, but only recently was ready for it. I used to read Ramana Maharashi or Nisargadatta, and think: what the hell is this rubbish? It's completely unhelpful. I found it impossible to use. But now just reading a few of their sentences, the words sometimes just jump out at me and knock me round the head, and suddenly am seeing things very differently.
Love,
Mr Anderson |
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k123
118 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2012 : 10:32:44 AM
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Thanks Anthem and Mr Anderson,
It is really helpful for me to read about others' experiences. I originally came to AYP 4 years ago because of problems with other systems and too much energy and have always been in the oversensitive camp. I went off and followed some other practices for a while, but have recently felt drawn back to AYP and the forum. I don't post much, but am an avid reader.
Before, I could manage spinal breathing and the mantra medition twice a day, most days a week, but recently the sensitivity seems more pronounced.
I have been doing 5 mins spinal breathing and 5 mins watching the breath, as the mantra immediately stirs up energy and starts to cause overload. AYP Lite (nice way of putting it!) seems to work and I am finding there is a deepening into silence and observing. Like Mr Anderson, I know when overload is likely to happen and have been working on self-pacing and finding the right level of practice.
In my case, I have found certain things that seem to help. The usual things, such as exercise etc and also consciously inhabiting my body. I find that overload seems to somehow eject me from my body, or at least push me up into my head. I am remembering to stay centred in my body and that helps. I can then somehow feel the extra energy dissipating. That helps a lot.
Another thing I have found that really helps is accepting the different thoughts and feelings that go on, without judging. This is the witness state I suppose, but recently it has deepened quite a lot and energy seems to be released when I can allow thoughts and feelings to come and go. Often there are layers and layers and the habitual thoughts evoke other habitual thoughts, quite often in conflict with the original impulse. For example I may have one impulse of anger in a given situation, then immediately another of judgement and repression. Seeing and allowing all of that is immensely freeing and has a considerable effect on the physical body and energy I find.
I am really glad to be back doing AYP again. I somehow always knew it would happen. Even when I was doing other practices, I still used to come and log on and look at the forums.
Kathy |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 12:50:06 PM
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"consciously inhabiting my body" -thanks that's a good one. I get pushed up into the head also, so I think I'll start paying more attention to the entire body.
In fact, I'm already trying it, and it's working.
It's good to hear from another ultra sensitive meditator Kathy! Hope you continue to have success with your practices!
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2012 : 9:59:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Hi chit-ananda,
I have been on the AYP "Lite" program myself for about 3 months now. I had self-paced down to 6 minutes of deep meditation using the "i am" mantra and that eventually became too strong as well.
So after 6 years of pranayama, dm, samyama etc., I am now doing simple breath meditation for 6 minutes as described in the lessons, twice a day. So far I have been able to find tremendous stability for the last 3 months of practice which is very encouraging because I was wondering if i would be able to continue to meditate at all. I am also able to resume asanas practice for longer than a few minutes as well.
I find this practice to be delivering lot's of positive results so far.
Best of luck!
Just an update, the AYP "Lite" program did work in terms of pro-longing my ability to continue with meditation and practices for a few extra months. Eventually, as mentioned in another post, this became too much as well. It didn't matter what type of meditation that was done, a few minutes of any method would lead to overload.
Being present in the moment and relaxing the body or being conscious of the body and senses are the daily practices used from time to time and seems to be enough for now. This is the extra lite program I guess!
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AYP "Lite" for very sensitive meditators
