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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 11:23:45 AM
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Over the years I have lived through many "Highs" and "Lows" in my life. Phases of extreme happiness and phases of complete darkness. Then through meditation and self inquiry I saw through stories and how we make mountain out of mole hills with thoughts. It became easy to catch stories and let go and not attach to them.
So now when there is energy movement.. which seems like negative energy.. like anger or sadness or fear (and I really don't know if there is anything like negative or positive energy, and if it is only our body conditioning that makes it feel so) .. I can be completely detached from them. It is true that energy arises first and the mind grabs it and attaches a label and/or story to this. So when I go into a witness mode and observe the energy move.. I don't attach stories to them, nor do I wish them gone (aversion). I let them be.. and the energy moves through and does its things and moves out.. and as a result one such episode that could get me into a low phase for weeks now lasts anywhere from 5 min to maybe a day.. depending on how intense the purification was. Through this phase.. there is no suffering. Suffering seems to be possible only when there is attachment or aversion to the energy movement.
Now comes the "highs". I feel happy and feel love flowing and in love with the world and everything looks sunny and beautiful and I cant stop smiling and... (anyone who has experienced heart openings knows what I am talking about). During these phases tho.. I am so happy and comfortable, that I forget... this high is also an energy movement. And in order to be liberated.. we need to be free of ALL attachments. It is really hard to remember to watch and be a witness through the "high" phase too. To inquire into this happiness and loving feeling too. How do I remember to let go.. let go.. let go.. of this happiness and loving phase too?
Why care if I am happy? Because, this, as I said is a phase.. and does go away.. and I have found myself at times wishing for that high phase back. Thinking that is the end all state that I should be living... the phase of constant bliss and happiness and outpouring love that many of the enlightened souls have talked about. Whereas in reality.. that is the other end of the pendulum swing. That is attachment too. So how do you break free of attachment to the highs? |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 11:39:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
So how do you break free of attachment to the highs?
Hi Shanti:
Just keep giving it away in service to others. Then it becomes a flow, a divine outpouring, and our attachment gradually goes. This is karma yoga, an important aspect of later stages on our path. Less thinking ... more ecstatic doing ... in stillness.
Here is a lesson on it: http://www.aypsite.org/120.html
Just replace the word "enlightenment" in the lesson with "high." Same thing. 
Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2009 : 2:39:25 PM
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Thanks Yogani.
I wish I got what you mean by replace the word "enlightenment" by the word "high" in the lesson 120 (the lesson does not tell me how to do let go the happiness too)... and maybe thankfully I don't get it. When you guide me to certain lessons it's because you see a bigger picture (more beyond the mind) than I do.. so I will take your word for it and know that lesson holds the answer.. and not try to get it.
quote:
From lesson 120: http://www.aypsite.org/120.html
Getting enlightenment is giving it away. Getting enlightenment is letting it go.
I have been doing all this writing here for months. Why? Well, it is a good thing that needs to be done for sure. Many agree with that. From my perspective, it is going out with my inner silence into many lives, and that is helping me expand tremendously inside. The more I give away, the more I am filling up with ecstatic bliss. I am a very selfish person doing all this transmission of knowledge. Yet, my self is becoming more and more in everyone. Your joy is my joy. You can do the same thing in your life. Do your sitting practices, however much and whatever kind you find is good for you, and then go do something good for someone. That is rising enlightenment.
Giving away.. I haven't figured out how to do it yet.. I know I will.. the form is not clear yet. But I trust you know what you are saying.. and keep it at that.
Really appreciate your input on this. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jan 10 2009 2:39:44 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 07:38:39 AM
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Hi Shanti
Thanks for sharing
Isn't it amazing how the mind tends to make a problem out of just about anything.....
Not even the bliss of flowing from heart can be left to be just as it is....can it 
quote:
Now comes the "highs". I feel happy and feel love flowing and in love with the world and everything looks sunny and beautiful and I cant stop smiling and... (anyone who has experienced heart openings knows what I am talking about).
Only mind will think of making this into a problem, Shanti. This is not only "a heart opening". This is Heart.
quote:
During these phases tho.. I am so happy and comfortable, that I forget... this high is also an energy movement.
In my experience, the only "forgetting" that causes suffering is when I go shopping with thoughts. It may be a paradox...but when you rest in the bliss of Heart.....you do not need to remember to stay present. To be Joyful is the presence. Is the lovingness. Is the beauty. Is your true Self. Is the Shine.
quote:
And in order to be liberated.. we need to be free of ALL attachments.
Yes. But since we are already that which permeats everything and as such already are free.....then this includes the acceptance of any attachment. The problem is not the joyful, shining lovingness. This is not only an energy movement, Shanti. It is also what allows for any energy movement. It is the enmeshment in the talking about it..that gradually (or not so gradually...depending on the degree of identification with the thoughts) makes it feel "lost". The instant you see the attachment.....just be quiet. What is attachment if not thoughts? That is all it is.....a mirage! To make attachment into a problem for the mind to solve......to ask "how to be free"......this is not going to "do" it. There is no "how to". "How to" will instantly take you out of Now.
quote:
It is really hard to remember to watch and be a witness through the "high" phase too.
Mind is not a watcher....so it can't be given this task. And this is great...because to be fully relaxed is everything. You can enjoy the bliss of Heart to your hearts content, Shanti. Nothing is wrong with that! You do not have to distance yourself from Joy (only mind will do this). Just quietly enjoy it. Don't let thoughts of "now this too will pass" temper with the Joy of the moment. Our moods will differ all the time.....but if we don't make it into a problem....if we don't talk about it.....then right in this instant we are beyond the body/mind ....and this is always bliss. And resting here is more and more ecstatic....the more it is shared. In love with everything......
quote:
To inquire into this happiness and loving feeling too. How do I remember to let go.. let go.. let go.. of this happiness and loving phase too?
You do not have to inquire into Love. It simply is. It is Self-evident. It is not a phase. It is always. You do not have to make it into a task...to let go...let go. Just enjoy it. And stay quiet inside. Don't talk about it! Simply enjoy it.
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Why care if I am happy?
What else is there to care about? Self is pure Joy. When "being happy" has finally boiled down to "I feel happy and feel love flowing and in love with the world and everything looks sunny and beautiful and I cant stop smiling" ....then I hear: To be happy is to be Love.
And to be Love......what can be more precious than this? This is THAT....
quote:
Because, this, as I said is a phase.. and does go away..
It never goes away. It is mind that leaves.
quote:
and I have found myself at times wishing for that high phase back.
I'd say this is Bhakti.
quote:
Thinking that is the end all state that I should be living... the phase of constant bliss and happiness and outpouring love that many of the enlightened souls have talked about
This might be at the chore of this whole issue.....
How can there be an "end all state" that is separate from the expression of stillness in action? It is both, right? Stillness in action. Simultaneously nothing happens and yet everything happens.
There is noone here to "live this state". Noone ever lived it. It lives itself just fine. And it is not a state. It is what is always.
quote:
Giving away.. I haven't figured out how to do it yet
Good
quote:
I know I will.. the form is not clear yet.
In my experience it is the surrendering to the fact that I will never know......somehow...this surrendering takes care of everything.......because...if I will never know....then what is there to talk about inside?......
So...whenever thoughts arise regarding "how to"......know it is mind, and simply disregard it.
No form is ever clear, see.
The Clarity....that reveals itself....when quiet inside......to rest here is all it takes. You do not need to know what will take place. Everything is always unfolding as it is, anyway.
Now....from this viewpoint:
quote:
Giving away.. I haven't figured out how to do it yet.. I know I will.. the form is not clear yet
I have known you for three years now, Shanti. This whole forum is full of your service. Full of the joy and love and clarity that pours out of you. You have touched - and keep touching - so many people....from heart to heart......where would we be were it not for you?
I love you very much, Shanti
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ymladris
Czech Republic
20 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 09:17:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Thanks Yogani.
I wish I got what you mean by replace the word "enlightenment" by the word "high" in the lesson 120 (the lesson does not tell me how to do let go the happiness too)...
Hi shanti:
Yogani: Just keep giving it away in service to others. Then it becomes a flow, a divine outpouring, and our attachment gradually goes.
I consider this another a little bit 'magic' 'paradoxical' advice (ayp toolbox is full of them ;)). IMHO, we can't LET GO attachment to 'highs' by force, immediately, because heart openings are too sweet, too strong
But the good news is, just keep giving it away in service to others
and the problem will solve itself by itself ;). Gradually. I believe it.
Have a nice day ;) |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 09:50:39 AM
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I knew there was a reason I felt compelled to post this.
Hi ymladris,
Thanks. Yes.. I got it this morning.. its not about detaching from the "high".. but giving the "high" away. Attachment to "highs" cannot be inquired into the way (mind)attachment/aversion to the "lows" have been. It is such an amazing path.. and like you said includes so many divine ('magic) paradoxes('paradoxical'). Thanks for taking the time to write this. Really appreciate your input.
Hi Katrine,
quote:
In my experience it is the surrendering to the fact that I will never know......somehow...this surrendering takes care of everything.......because...if I will never know....then what is there to talk about inside?......
So...whenever thoughts arise regarding "how to"......know it is mind, and simply disregard it.
No form is ever clear, see.
The Clarity....that reveals itself....when quiet inside......to rest here is all it takes. You do not need to know what will take place. Everything is always unfolding as it is, anyway.
This is what I needed to hear this morning.
I have been racking my brains out as to how and what I can do to "give away". Anything and everything I can think of have some form of limitations. And then your words above hit me.. yep.. I just need to let it go.. like everything else.. and it will be revealed to me.. as it aways does. Funny how the answer sits on your head like your glasses and everyone else can see it.. but you can be looking all over the world for them Thanks Katrine.
PS: And thanks for your kind words on giving to the forum. Everyone here does that. I have never really considered it as giving away.. more a flow of the silence. I don't write things here.. it flows from silence.. so I guess I am not doing anything.
PPS:Heyyyy.. funny as I am writing this I realize what you are saying.. when we do anything from the silence it's not "I" doing service.. it's the love flowing out through the words. "I" cannot really do anything.. just have to keep letting go.. surrendering.. and it will flow.. form is not important.. it cannot be imagined or "thought up".. .. hmmmmmm.. it's all back to the first lesson that I have told so many here.. there is ever only one answer.it's all about letting it go.. surrender. Wow Katrine.. Thanks!!! |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 10:39:21 AM
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Hi Shanti:
Sorry, I was away for a while. Looks like you figured out there is nothing to figure out.
We just do it, first through our practices, and then in becoming stillness moving out into daily living.
Enlightenment isn't enlightenment until we let it go -- give it away. Neither does a "high" have much significance until we let it go -- give it away. Before that, it is just scenery. The giving away is scenery too, but that is not our concern. It is the divine flow emerging through us.
This process is wrapped up with advancing samyama in daily living (cultivated in structured daily practice), which is releasing and moving in stillness. Then it flows out. It is the concurrent rise of relational self-inquiry also. Paradoxically, our ongoing desire (bhakti) to move through the transformation is the essential ingredient in all this.
It all merges together into one thing -- surrender in stillness. The act of giving it away (karma yoga) is part of the process. But it is not something we can conjure up until the flow is happening. We are priming the pump with our daily practices. Once the flow starts, it expands indefinitely. As Katrine says, you have been moving in this direction for a long time already. Thank you.
It is the shift in our internal flow mentioned in lesson 120 -- the natural shift from getting to giving. It is a relaxation of heart and mind in stillness and the ecstatic flow. With that, the attachment is dissolving, even to the most glorious highs. Along the way, the question is naturally shifting from "How do I keep this?" to "How do I give this away?"
In time, there is no question about it. We just flow out with no attachment. Divine outpouring!
Meanwhile, our life continues in its ordinary ways. Chop wood, carry water...
High? What high? The world is becoming illuminated within and all around us. It is normal. Time to brush teeth again (practice). It is all in a day's work.
The guru is in you.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 11:42:16 AM
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I think many of us also get caught up on the concept of becoming enlightened or awaiting the big awakening moment etc. I know I certainly have.
I found over time this concept occupied my mind to a great degree until I realized the very idea itself caused me to suffer with the inadequacy of what was happening in the here and now. In other words, by looking into the future for the moment this enlightenment would happen caused me to miss the beauty and joy happening right here and now which I was seeing as incomplete. Ouch, a definite recipe for suffering. So we let go of the idea and it is one less thing that can occupy the mind and then more often there is the seeing, the knowing and the giving it away all on its own. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 12:39:27 PM
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Shanti,
You give away much more then you think I'm sure. I constantly feel as if I am "recieving" from you!
Love,
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 12:55:16 PM
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Wonderful Shanti
quote:
"I" cannot really do anything
Isn't it great??
The freedom of this realization......it changes everything. Even giving "I" away becomes reduntant in this....because it disappears...it drowns in the bliss of not having to manage everything. (It never did.....but the thought of it sure created a lot of struggle....)
And noone died! And everything continues to take place!
No wonder it can't be understood
And no wonder it is so funny  |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 11 2009 : 4:17:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Enlightenment isn't enlightenment until we let it go -- give it away. Neither does a "high" have much significance until we let it go -- give it away. Before that, it is just scenery.
Yes.. I actually get this statement now.. I actually get what you have said all along.. "Enlightenment is about giving it away." It's amazing how we can read words for ever.. and suddenly one moment the knowing flows from within. The "high" not having much significance till we give it away.. till then it is just scenery.. those words hit home.
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
This process is wrapped up with advancing samyama in daily living (cultivated in structured daily practice), which is releasing and moving in stillness. Then it flows out. It is the concurrent rise of relational self-inquiry also. Paradoxically, our ongoing desire (bhakti) to move through the transformation is the essential ingredient in all this.
It all merges together into one thing -- surrender in stillness. The act of giving it away (karma yoga) is part of the process. But it is not something we can conjure up until the flow is happening. We are priming the pump with our daily practices. Once the flow starts, it expands indefinitely. As Katrine says, you have been moving in this direction for a long time already. Thank you.
Samyama, bhakti, karma yoga, meditation, other practices, letting go, surrender, self inquiry is now all becoming one.. and as you have said earlier ""The whole is greater than the sum of the parts." Thank you.
quote:
Andrew said: I found over time this concept occupied my mind to a great degree until I realized the very idea itself caused me to suffer with the inadequacy of what was happening in the here and now. In other words, by looking into the future for the moment this enlightenment would happen caused me to miss the beauty and joy happening right here and now which I was seeing as incomplete.
Yes Andrew.. that is so very true. There is nothing but the now. Enlightenment is just another word the ego loves.. something to achieve.. somewhere to go.. hence the way Yogani puts it "I am where I am".. is perfect. You are enlightened.. unless your mind decides it's not. That's why I prefer the word liberated (of course just another ego word ).. liberated from the mind... when you are you are.. when your not your not.. you are where you are.. and loving what is.. is loving exactly where you are.. not wishing to be somewhere else.
Yogani's words in lesson 120 says it well
quote:
http://www.aypsite.org/120.html
Keep in mind that "getting enlightenment" is an ego strategy, and not likely to be completed in this life if it continues like that on the basis of "getting." This does not remove the necessity for practices to achieve progress. But getting enlightenment is a letting go. A paradox. Not letting go of practices necessarily, but letting go of something. Letting go of our need to "get it."
quote:
Carson said:
You give away much more then you think I'm sure. I constantly feel as if I am "recieving" from you!
Thanks Carson.
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From attachment and aversion be free..
