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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 1:14:04 PM
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I reached the limiting point, I can do with snipping. I can't cut the underlying tendon.
With finger help, I can touch uvula.
But I do not have the length to go further. I tried so much. I tried, left side, right side, upward thrust, forward thrust, every variation.
Reading Mallinson's book, I learned you can do all sorts of milking and stretching, but has anyone here actually done any of this? I only hear of snipping on this forum...I do not really hear of anyone making their tongue longer through milking or stretching. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2008 : 1:56:09 PM
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I suggest piercing your tongue and hanging 50lb wieghts off of it every night for an hour. Just kidding...kinda. I'm sure this would give you extra length. I think you shouldn't give too much creedance to one mudra over any other. I'm sure there are some pretty enlightened people out there who have never even heard of kechari or have ever stuck their tongue in their throat. If your tongue is too short for anything past Kechari stage 1 (and it sounds like it is if you have already cut the frenulum to the tendon and you can only reach the uvula with finger help), then let it go and continue to focus on meditation or something more productive for you. No sense in getting wrapped up in something that is physically unacheivable for you. If it was meant to happen it will happen. EVEN if your tongue seems too short.
I know this probably isn't what you were hoping to hear, and I'm sure there will be other's who will come along and contradict me or give you better advice, and I hope that happens. But to me, it sounds like you should focus on something else. Best of luck.
Love,
Carson |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 21 2008 2:01:08 PM |
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contemplative
USA
10 Posts |
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alwayson
Canada
288 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2008 : 3:51:24 PM
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| yes, that free pdf book, is the only guide to kriya yoga available to westerners. |
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2009 : 8:16:06 PM
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Can you tell me the title of the Mallinson book you refer to? Looking for help and ideas on how to lengthen.
Thanks |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2009 : 10:09:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by anandatandava
Can you tell me the title of the Mallinson book you refer to? Looking for help and ideas on how to lengthen.
Thanks
Hi Anandatandava:
Here are a couple of topics on Jim Mallison's book:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3891
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1534
He participated in both of these discussions, as "flying fakir."
Here is an Amazon link for the book, which is called "Khecarividya":
http://www.amazon.com/Khecarividya-...60021&sr=8-1
It is expensive, priced as a university textbook, not as a handbook for in-the-trenches yogis.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: I don't think tongue elongation is a complete substitute for frenum reduction for reaching kechari stage 2. If the tongue is long and the frenum is limiting, the tongue will be coming up from further forward on the floor the mouth (tied down by the frenum) and will have to compensate for that by bending behind the palate, an awkward maneuver. If the tongue is normal length and the frenum is not limiting, the tongue can go up behind the palate without having to maneuver (bend) around it from a point tied down further forward on the floor of the mouth. An ideal approach is a little bit of of both lengthening and frenum reduction, as needed, with neither measure taken to an extreme. From there, it is largely a matter of technique, i.e., going forward with the tongue as soon as the tip of the tongue gets behind the soft palate on either the left or right side, whichever is the shortest distance and easiest to reach. Then the soft palate comes down like a trap door and the distance to the "secret spot" is very short.
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2009 : 9:11:28 PM
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| My tongue is almost entirely lax with tongue curled back, but I still need a small finger push to get in. Once there I'm above the eustachian tubes and the chamber has narrowed considerably. I can curl my tongue back far enough on the back of my throat so that the soft palate drops back down pushing my tongue out, so I seem real close to success. I need this method very much in high stress situations. Are there any further directions to be given on tongue lengthening such as pulling up when milking? Would a copyright on the Mallinson book allow for copying the portion pertaining to this? Is there anyone who can do this for me? |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2009 : 9:54:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by anandatandava
My tongue is almost entirely lax with tongue curled back, but I still need a small finger push to get in. Once there I'm above the eustachian tubes and the chamber has narrowed considerably. I can curl my tongue back far enough on the back of my throat so that the soft palate drops back down pushing my tongue out, so I seem real close to success. I need this method very much in high stress situations. Are there any further directions to be given on tongue lengthening such as pulling up when milking? Would a copyright on the Mallinson book allow for copying the portion pertaining to this? Is there anyone who can do this for me?
Hi Anandatandava:
There are very few here who have the book. I don't.
If you are in stage 2 kechari with finger help, it won't be long until you can do it without finger help.
As for lengthening, it is not rocket science, and not nearly as crucial as it is sometimes made out to be. There are plenty of "tongue lengthening" discussions here in the forums. Perhaps some here can pull them out for you. No pun intended. 
Honestly, once we are in the nasal pharynx and can spend some time there in relative comfort during spinal breathing, there is not much more needed for good results in kechari. If you are in the area of the eustachian tube openings you are doing fine. The secret spot is right there in-between them on the back edge of the septum.
More importantly, to gain the full benefits of kechari, the beginnings of ecstatic conductivity in the nervous system are necessary, and that is not a function of kechari alone. It is related to all of our practices and our general condition of purification and opening. It is only then that the secret spot becomes an active player in the continuing rise of ecstatic conductivity. Before then, the sensations at the secret spot may be muted, and the whole body connection limited, which begins with root to brow ecstatic conductivity. Mulabandha, sambhavi and siddhasana are at least as important in this as kechari. And, of course, deep meditation and spinal breathing come before that.
So the suggestion is to aim for balance in the overall practice routine and bringing the effects of that into daily activity, where the inner silence and ecstatic conductivity and radiance cultivated in sitting practices will naturally and gradually become stabilized 24/7.
There is no one practice that is going to "save us." If I had to pick one, it would not be kechari. It would be deep meditation. Beyond deep meditation, it is all about developing a balanced integration, not targeting one practice excessively over the others. Of course, at particular times we will be focusing on the practice we are integrating then. Once we have done that we can move on to next things, without becoming too extreme about any particular practice. Step by step. Kechari is one step on the road of purification and opening. The degree to which it is pursued will depend on the individual. Everyone is a little different. It is more about our bhakti than anything.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: If you give it some time, with regular kechari practice you may see a snipable edge of the tendon appearing again at the surface of the center line of the frenum. It can keep coming back like that again and again for years. I snipped off and on for nearly 20 years. So don't write off the frenum too soon. With normal practice of kechari, it will likely be back. 
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2009 : 9:23:12 PM
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| Hi anandatandava, blessings to you and your quest for peace. I agree with everything Yogani says above - and more he says elsewhere about these things. I'm just writing to tell you - as one who has read Prof. Mallinsons fine book - that there is nothing more in it about tounge lengthening than you will find on the forums. For fun you might check out an old post of mine called "spontanious ecstatic tounge milking". I find an occassional pull very rewarding and educational with respect to ecstatic connections. Hopeing for y/our happinesses, dfb |
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2009 : 9:10:39 PM
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Thanks for your responses. This forum is like a life line to me, truly.
Right now I can wiggle my uvula with the tip of my tongue but can't get behind it. At this in between stage is there a particular turn of the head or jaw movement that would give me greatest odds of success? I'm almost always in public, sometimes under very stressful circumstances, and it's not practical to be sticking my finger in my mouth. By the way, in Kechari II the words Cave of Brahman come to mind. Does this somehow relate to what I'm doing for the space itself seems electric without touching anything. It may help to know that for several years I've had extreme ecstatic conductivity of orgasmic intensity, but am remiss in meditative practice so cannot say I always have pure bliss consciousness.
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 11:06:44 AM
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| A few more questions if I may; should I be pulling the tongue predominately up in order to stretch the bottom of the tongue? How long should a session be and how many times a day? Proceeding diligently, how soon might I see results? How do I measure it? Attempting Kechari II how far should I probe? At the gumline? Midway to the uvula? How do I find info on the forums about this that aren't about experience, but about the technique itself? Where do I look? Searching 'tongue milking' isn't helping much. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 11:30:36 AM
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| Incidentally, I don't remember ever seeing the phrase Cave of Brahman before. Where might I have encountered it? |
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 11:45:55 AM
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| I was in a hurry yesterday and misspoke. Not being always blissful, I'm not always ecstatic. However, if I can pause and center myself with Sambhavi, resonance usually starts. Intensity from day to day goes in cycles. The unevenness in my life is due to the fact that I almost never meditate and I know I have to address that. |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 12:17:57 PM
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Hi everybody,
After reading posts on the forum, a person(stranger) from Bangalore called me and shared with me: "I have been meditating for the last 20 yrs., but I recently visited the ayp forum and read for the first time about kechari mudra, talavya kriya etc. I started practising it, and in addition,whenever I was doing nothing, even in public, I just rolled up my tongue and held it there as long as possibe. This translated to as much as 3 to 4 hrs ( intermittently) every day. In two weeks time, I was able to go up to kechari stage 4! " Amazing !
Krish |
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divinefurball
USA
138 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2009 : 1:43:00 PM
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Hi anandatandave, I am sorry it is so difficult for you to get the information you seek, and that the public nature of your situation doesn't often allow for the use of finger help - I had to use it to get to stage two, and still use it after years. It might be easier for you. I never tried the tounge milking untill long after I was in stage 2, and did it on a strong inexplicable bakti impulse, almost like scratching an itch. But I immediatly found it so pleasurable and arousing that I was astonished, even though I had good ecsatatic conductivity for a while, and experimented a bit with it, following the pleasure. I don't always have this response now, but it seems a bit more than a passing thing, and I believe it has extended my toungue length some - I noticed it when I started accidently biting the tip, when talking, or eating, though I soon got used to it. It is also not impossible for the tounge to lengthen on its own, if the time is right, I think. Anyway, the conductivity inclined me to pull my tongue like this: with a slightly dry mouth and dry fingers, I would stick out my tongue and grab it as close to the base as possible on either side of the frenulum with thumb and index fingers, and with many slow alternating, masssage like, pulls, or tugs, (always having the tongue held in at least one hand, at maximum extension) slide back down the entire length to the tip, and repeat. You may find some rising conductivity doing this - or not - if you do, follow it, not my advice. You may not notice it at the time, but later you will find the exposed end of the frenulum a little sore, so self pace this - less will be more in the long run . As for the problem with finger help, use it when you can to accustom yourself to the tongue position you should practice toward later, with the efforts of the tongue alone. I hope this is some small help, and that you may find circumstances more conducive to practices. All the best, dfb
P.S.: just trying this again now: you may also find it easier to slowly move down the tough length, by just pulling from side to side, with out ever letting go with either hand - especially as you get toward the tip. Experiment! |
Edited by - divinefurball on Aug 08 2009 5:56:06 PM |
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anandatandava2
USA
24 Posts |
Posted - Aug 11 2009 : 8:28:23 PM
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I often take naps in Kechari II. If throat blocking occurs, will I wake up? I think my problem is due to the fact that I've only been tackling Kechari for 5 months and haven't spent enough time with my tongue curled back. Therefore, the muscle tone for a sufficiently tight curl has not developed yet. I agree with the slightly dry tongue approach, and will also pull upward sufficiently to feel tension on the underside of the tongue.
Thank you all for your input.
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How do I get tongue length?
