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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 05:16:56 AM
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Hi all
I am having difficulty when practicing deep meditation to keep my inner balance. It seems my nostrils (ida/pingala connection) are out of balance so i am always leaning on the left side or the right side of my brain and body. I've practiced jala neti for several weeks but this hasn't solved yet the breathing imbalance so I continue to move back and forth relying heavily on one nostril over the other. I don't practice spinal brething pranayama in my daily routine because my objective is first to get stable in my deep meditation practice.
Any suggestions as to how can I help center my breathing patterns in my meditation ? I was thinking of incorporating some light nadi shodana, then again I read Yogani suggests that beginners should focus only on spinal breathing pranayama.
thanks
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 09:05:47 AM
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Hi thibaud,
quote:
I am having difficulty when practicing deep meditation to keep my inner balance. It seems my nostrils (ida/pingala connection) are out of balance so i am always leaning on the left side or the right side of my brain and body. I've practiced jala neti for several weeks but this hasn't solved yet the breathing imbalance so I continue to move back and forth relying heavily on one nostril over the other. I don't practice spinal brething pranayama in my daily routine because my objective is first to get stable in my deep meditation practice.
Any suggestions as to how can I help center my breathing patterns in my meditation ? I was thinking of incorporating some light nadi shodana, then again I read Yogani suggests that beginners should focus only on spinal breathing pranayama.
It is natural for the breath to be stronger flowing through one nostril or the other at any one time. There is no need to do anything about it. It is done automatically by your body, to keep things running smoothly. What happens is that your breath will change throughout the day, sometimes flowing more strongly through one nostril, and after a wile flowing more strongly through the other. When the breath is stronger in the left nostril, the body is charging the ida nadi, when it is stronger in the right nostril it is charging the pingala nadi. During the crossover period, which happens several times a day, the breath will momentarily flow evenly through both nostrils. When this happens the body is briefly charging the sushumna nadi.
This is why jala neti will not solve the problem, because it is not a problem.
In deep meditation it makes no difference if the prana flow is stronger on one side or another, just notice that it is happening and come back to the mantra.
The purpose of nadi shodana (alternate nostril breathing) is to balance the flow of prana through the right and left nostrils, and by so doing, to bring the pranic flow into the central channel (sushumna). I do not think that Yogani said that beginners should not practice Nadi shodana, I think he said that if you were drawn to it you could practice it. You could also add spinal breathing as well, as long as you leave a time lapse between adding new practices to make sure your system is stable with each new practice. A few weeks or a month would be fine.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Nov 19 2008 08:13:43 AM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 12:15:52 PM
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Actually I am sure Yogani said that spinal breathing does the same thing as anulom vinom. I don't agree with this as they are for different purposes.
L&L
Dave |
Edited by - riptiz on Nov 17 2008 5:35:13 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2008 : 02:19:47 AM
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Hi Dave,
quote:
Actually I am sure Yogani said that spinal breathing does the same thing as anulom vinom. I don't agree with this as they are for different purposes.
L&L
Dave
I think he said two things on this, firstly that the calming effect of anulom vilom (alternate nostril breathing) is caused by the slowing of the breath, and this is duplicated in spinal breathing. He also said that the effects of spinal breathing and the effects of anulom vilom are the same. See here:
quote:
Yogani wrote:
Addition to Lesson 41 –
Over the months, several have written and asked about a form of pranayama called “nadi shodana.” This is alternate nostril breathing. It is one of the most basic breathing techniques, and is usually the first breathing method taught to beginning students in hatha yoga classes. These days it is also taught by mental health professionals due to its calming influence on the nervous system. Nadi shodana is done by breathing slowly out and then in with one nostril blocked by the thumb of one hand, and then slowly out and in with the other nostril blocked by the middle finger of the same hand. That is all there is to it. It is a well-known practice that brings almost immediate relaxation. Why is it not taught in the Advanced Yoga Practices lessons?
The reason nadi shodana is not used here is because spinal breathing includes the benefits of nadi shodana, plus it is a tremendously more powerful practice with effects extending far beyond those of nadi shodana. The calming effects of nadi shodana come primarily from a reduction of the breath rate by using one nostril at a time – restraint of breath. In spinal breathing, the breath is restrained on inhalation voluntarily with the lungs and on exhalation with ujjayi (partially closed epiglottis), while the attention is used in the particular way of tracing the spinal nerve discussed in this lesson. While spinal breathing does not include alternating nostril breathing, this is not a shortcoming. Otherwise nadi shodana would be included along with spinal breathing. It is possible to do both practices at the same time, but it would be complicating our practice for very little gain. That is one of the guiding principles in all of these lessons – Is there a substantial benefit derived through the addition of an element of practice? If there is not a significant benefit from an additional element of practice, we leave it out. That is how we keep the routine of practices as simple and efficient as possible. Otherwise we would be loading ourselves up with all sorts of supplementary things and risk losing focus on our main practices. There will be plenty of practices added as we go through the lessons that will have huge impacts on results. We want to save our attention, time and energy for those, so we can achieve the most with our yoga.
Still, if you are an avid nadi shodana practitioner, or are strongly attracted to it, it will do no harm to incorporate it into your routine. If you have time, you can do some alternate nostril breathing before spinal breathing. Or you can incorporate it into your spinal breathing session. Keep in mind that nadi shodana is not recommended if you are a beginner in spinal breathing. There is plenty to learn in taking up spinal breathing – new habits to develop – and nadi shodana is not in the mix for the reasons mentioned. But, since it has been asked about by several people, and perhaps wondered about by others, it is covered here.
It should also be mentioned that nadi shodana is sometimes taught in combination with voluntary breath suspension. Breath suspension is an advanced practice and is discussed in detail later in the lessons. Nadi shodana with breath suspension is a different practice altogether, and can be hazardous if done without a good understanding of correct methodology and the effects. If you are a beginner and contemplating using breath suspension (holding the breath in or out) with nadi shodana or spinal breathing, it is suggested you wait until we get into it in these lessons, which is at lesson #91 (on yoni mudra kumbhaka) and beyond. The Sanskrit word for breath suspension is “kumbhaka.”
The primary effect of alternate nostril breathing is to bring the prana into the central channel, and this is one effect of spinal breathing. Of course, alternate nostril breathing brings more prana into the ida and pingala nadis than spinal breathing does, so it could bring some additional benefits if used in addition to spinal breathing.
Christi |
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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 05:51:23 AM
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Thank you Christi and Dave for your help and input.
Regarding nadi shodana, it seems there are 2 ways of practicing it : inhaling first from the left nostril (ida connection to the astral body) or inhaling first from the right nostril (pingala connection to the physical body).
Would doing 2 daily sessions of nadi shodana with one in the morning before DM with the pingala/physical connection and then one in the evening before DM with the ida/astral connection, be an effective way to integrate and balance these 2 aspects in my routine ?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 08:11:55 AM
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Hi Thibaud,
I don't think it matters which nostril you breathe in through first (although I am sure many will tell you that it does). The important thing is that you breathe in through one nostril (either one) and then out through the other nostril; then in through the one you just breathed out of and out again through the first. The nadis get charged on the inbreath, so breathing in this way leaves one nadi charged whilst you are breathing out through the opposite nostril. This will activate (and balance) both nadis and lead the prana into the central channel. The physical and astral bodies will take their cue from that.
And yes, I would do two sessions a day before deep meditation.
Christi |
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2008 : 11:16:16 AM
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| Swami Satyananda Saraswati of the Bihar School Of Yoga, says that one of the methods of awakening the Ajna Chakra is to do alternate nose breathing, but "psychically", without using the fingers to stop one nostril or the other. Does any one know how this is done / |
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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
Posted - Nov 29 2008 : 3:04:12 PM
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quote:
The nadis get charged on the inbreath, so breathing in this way leaves one nadi charged whilst you are breathing out through the opposite nostril.
Hi all,
So I've been doing nadi shodana for the past 10 days or so, and I enjoy it very much. There is an aspect to it that I am not sure about. Some people strongly advise that during the practice one should count the length of the inhale/exhale so that the exhale is twice as long on average as the inhale (8 seconds exhales and 4 seconds inhales). From what I've read this aspect is very important but it is not explained why. Personnally I prefer to keep it simple and natural and just do not bother at all with it but I've noticed that my inhales strangely tend to be as long or longer than my exhales. Should I monitor my breath or just let it ajust itself in time naturally ?
merci |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 11:42:37 AM
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Hi Thibaud,
There are many variations given as to the timing of the inbreath and outbreath. It depends on the teacher. I always do equal inbreath and outbreath as it is the safest, as in SBP.
Altering the timings makes the practice more powerful (and therefor potentially more dangerous), as does adding kumbhaka between the in and out breath.
Christi |
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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2008 : 3:26:25 PM
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Hi Christi,
Thank you very much, I appreciate your kind input. How do you go about timing the in and out breaths to make sure they are of equal duration ? Do you do it intuitively or do you do a mental count (or look at the clock) ?
Also what would be a good practice for a beginner regarding the length (duration) of the in and breaths ? I'd think an 8 second inbreath and a 8 second outbreath seems good, then once stable go to full in and outbreaths of 20-30 seconds each. Sounds correct ?
Is it important to keep a stable breathing rhytm within a given session, like if I start with a 10 second inbreath then must I stick to it throughout the whole routine ? or is it acceptable that within the same session I switch durations of the in and outbreaths pattern and end up in the 20-30 seconds range at the end of the session ?
I really don't wish to mess myself up.
Since the begining of my inner transformations, I've always been extremely cautious about any type of pranayama. The whole practice would scare me away because I experienced in the past quite drastic overloads in the crown at the time of my spontaneous awakening. Thats why I want to take it nice and easy, and will add SBP only when I feel the time is right which will probably be in several months. At present I have already plenty to deal with in terms of energy openings, I often feel on a tangent.
Also I read Shiva mudra is supposed to be done with the right hand, but if we start inhaling with the right nostril, then is it appropriate to switch and do shiva mudra with your left hand ? I don't always find the system of placing action/sun/pingala on the right side of the body very convenient for a lefty like me.
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Edited by - thibaud05 on Dec 03 2008 12:21:20 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 03:33:44 AM
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Hi Thibaud,
All I would advise is that you slow your breathing down during the practice. It will find it's own natural rythm. Gradually building up to include full yogic breathing (as we do in SBP) also makes the practice more powerful.
There is no need to watch a clock, or to count. Much more important is awareness. When you breathe through one nostril, be aware of the breath in that nostril, and when you breathe through the other nostril, be aware of the breath in that nostril.
Alternate nostril breathing has more effect on the ajna chakra than it does on the crown, which is one reason that it is a relatively safe form of pranayama.
I have been taught to only use my right hand. As I am sure you know, in India the left hand is used for the toilet, so it would not be appropriate to use the left hand for this practice. But now that yoga is spreading around the world... who knows what is possible.
The only thing to bear in mind is that there are specific connections between certain finger tips and certain chakras. The left and right hands differ in this respect. As I do not fully understand the correlations involved, I would recommend using the right hand if you can. But it's your call of course.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Dec 08 2008 04:51:13 AM |
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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2008 : 04:36:36 AM
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Thanks Christi !
I am already hooked up to nadhi shodana, its wonderful and very easy to practice with immediate results. SBP is much more complicated and demanding for a total beginner like me who seeks stability and quick effectiveness.
quote:
As I am sure you know, in India the left hand is used for the toilet, so it would not be appropriate to use the left hand for this practice. But now that yoga is spreading around the world... who knows what is possible.
Oh..I've never been to India and didn't know about this custom with the left hand. Its such a right hand driven world. Hmm well I guess left hand practices really aren't for everyone.
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Holderlin
Lebanon
6 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2008 : 6:23:37 PM
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Hi all,
Thibaud, concerning the imbalance between the nostrils,a good session of asanas before pranayama and meditation should make both flows equal.
If not, you can use the so-called "Breath Balancing" techniques. The easiest is the following:
If your left nostril is blocked, lie down on your right side and concentrate on the flow of breath in the left nostril. It should clear up in a couple of minutes. You can find more of these techniques in either Swami Niranjananda's "Prana Pranayama, Prana Vidya" (there are also discussions on which hand to use and the rationale behind the various exhalation/inhalation ratios) or, better still, in Andre Van Lysebeth's superb book "Pranayama, la dynamique du souffle" (I think it's also available in English).
In the beginning, it is normal for inhalation to be much longer. As you advance in the technique, try to make equalize both flows. It is better to count in the following way: 1 Om, 2 Om, 3 Om etc. eventually, you'll have equal flows without needing to count.
Don't set a fixed count beforehand. Just start your Pranayama session without counting and after a few breaths start to equalize inhalation and exhalation on whatever count your feel confortable (it won't be the same every time). Later in the same session, you can start to increase that count.
There is a lot to be said on Nadi Sodana (it's a technique which evolves, hence the changing ratios). My best advice is to get the Van Lysebeth which should help you develop your practice.
Cheers.
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Holderlin
Lebanon
6 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2008 : 6:41:18 PM
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Concerning the "psychic" Nadi Sodana, the Satyananda school calls it "Anuloma Viloma". It's a meditative technique. You can find a thorough description in "Kundalini Tantra" and "A Systematic Course in the Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya".
It is a follows:
-You imagine that you are inhaling from the left nostril only and then that you exhale from the right nostril. Then you inhale from the right and exhale from the left. This is one round. You do 4 rounds then inhale and exhale from both nostrils (this is called Prana Shuddhi) while feeling the "V" shape of the breath coming in and out of the eyebrow center.
Very important: the technique is very powerful so it is mandatory to use a count in order not to "drift". You count backward: First round of AV is 50, second is 49 etc. up to 0.
Please do not pratice this technique from my description (which is just to give you an idea of its working procedure). Refer to the above mentioned reference books. It is better done as part of an integrated routine.
N.B. It can also be practiced during Yoga Nidra (Cf. "Yoga Nidra" by Swami Satyananda).
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krcqimpro1
India
329 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2008 : 01:53:55 AM
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Hi Holderin,
I too read about "psychic" nadi shodhana in the Kundalini Tantra book. But how can "imagining" breathing thru' one nostril while we are really breathing thru' both nostrils, have the same effect as when breathing thru' nostrils while blocking with a finger ? Or is it similar to the SBP, where after a while of imagining, the prana actually flows thru' the sushumna ? In any case, would it not be better to block a nostril while breathing thru' the other to derive maximum benefit? How do you call the psychic breathing more powerful than normal nadi shodhana ?
Krish |
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Holderlin
Lebanon
6 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 07:42:43 AM
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mmm this is not easy to answer. It would be better if you tried the technique. You'll see the difference very quickly.
You see, there is absolutely no physical movement during psychic nadi sodana, and there is no risk of your arm getting tired after a while. Its stillness is much greater. There is also much greater awareness and concentration.
Of course you are still breathing through both nostrils but that's not the issue. You just concentrate on one nostril at a time (and I guess that you are subtly influencing the degree of flow in each nostril). In a way, it is like SBP (the imagining part). But, in my opinion, each technique is meant for a different purpose.
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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2008 : 11:54:38 AM
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Hi Holderlin,
quote:
In the beginning, it is normal for inhalation to be much longer. As you advance in the technique, try to make equalize both flows. It is better to count in the following way: 1 Om, 2 Om, 3 Om etc. eventually, you'll have equal flows without needing to count.
Don't set a fixed count beforehand. Just start your Pranayama session without counting and after a few breaths start to equalize inhalation and exhalation on whatever count your feel confortable (it won't be the same every time). Later in the same session, you can start to increase that count.
Your advice makes sense to me. I like to keep practices natural and gentle (gradual) always. It seems that my short practice of nadhi shodana as already cleared much of my inner imbalances in meditation. Before I was always rolling from one side to the other of the brain, without feeling centered. Also making a bridge with the tongue on the upper palet has been helpful to find balance. As soon as possible, I will go back to SBP so I don't intend to stay for a long time on nadhi shodana. Well perhaps I'll keep a light routine of nadhi shodana in front of SBP because its been great so far.
quote:
My best advice is to get the Van Lysebeth which should help you develop your practice.
I will look it up for sure, it has very good reviews. Thanks for your help !
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Edited by - thibaud05 on Dec 10 2008 12:10:11 PM |
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Breathing imbalance and deep meditation
