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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 11:31:00 AM
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I wish someone had told me or i had read before that experiences come and go, whether in meditation or outside meditation and that you only need a) good behaviour b) faith in the Divine c) meditation come rain or shine and d) loss of body consciousness.
Things would have been so much easier from the start.
Instead of this, i have fought bad moods and anger in meditation then experienced frustration, i have meditated for years with seemingly little result, and i have been filled with doubt about God.
Then to the experiences i HAVE had. When i first started meditating, i would see pinpricks of white light before my eyes just appear then disappear. My tongue has automatically gone back to the roof of my mouth, my breathing rate has slowed considerably on the exhale, i have experienced a visionary type of thing where i was shown solutions to a problem i have been having which seemed like intuitive guidance and the clear distinction that it came from "me" but also from outside of me and the best description i can give it is "higher self". I almost always experience hearing "voices" which i suspect might be clairaudience in a primitive form. I saw a blue dot that was fuzzy and ill-defined around the edges in front of my vision it was huge but hard to distinguish from the background. I saw some type of ET in a vision, i have experienced very tranquil feelings after meditation sometimes and last but not least, the sensation of warmth and coolness combined travelling around my spine and once even travelled up into my shoulders and slightly down the arms.
Outside of meditation, precognitive dreams, synchronicities of major proportions.
Now, all of these experiences only occurred when my faith in God was there. Quite frankly, if i am in a bad mood, feel angry with God etc or i try to reason God out of the equation, my meditations are fruitless.
Then there are the many contradictions and doubts that plague me. Nobody, for instance, seems to have an answer to the following question: how can you believe in God and have no expectations at the same time? Or why, for instance, can Buddhists have spiritual experiences when they don't believe in God?
In other words, there seems to be no rhyme or reason when it comes to spiritual experiences. You either get them or you don't, and you can't conjure them into existence by yourself. God is pulling the strings here. Another thing, people's spiritual experiences are all different anyway. For example, kundalini. This is so many different things to different people, the reasons for it are so varied, i am inclined to think again that God is responsible for them alone. Like this IS the matrix, and our free will is quite meagre.
I look at Ramana Maharshi and i am struck by how he is an example of a real self-realised person BECAUSE he has no ego, no little self, no body consciousness. And yet he had no psychic abilities. Funny isn't it?
Is self-realisation really the big goal we all want? Personally, i find psychic experiences more interesting. Perhaps in the end it really just boils down to less and less ego.
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brother neil
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 3:06:33 PM
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well believing and expecting are two different things to me. If i believe someone will share with me, they may get this sense of my belief and decide to share. If i expect someone to share with me, this may repel them. If i said HEY GUMPI, YOU NEED TO COME HELP ME OUT, WE NEED TO MOVE THIS DRESSER or if i say, hey brother gumpi, it is nice to see you again, i hope all is well with you, would you please give me a hand in moving this dresser. i believe one of those statements might deter you, especially with the body language given, one is stern and expecting, one is soft and kind.
as far as resistence to practice, sitting still for God. There is a book called "The Island" in this book they talked about their community and how they did things. WHen people were mad or angry they did a technique called "stomp it out" they would walk around and stomp on the floor, even scream and yell if they had to. For them it was a type of meditation to let go of frustration, sometimes being passive and expecting it to pass may not be as helpful as being active and releasing anger through a non harmful action. another book i have read talks about if we continue to ignore or resist something then it may keep persisting and getting stronger every time. So if we have a bad day, we can get a punching bag, stomp on the floor, do something other then bottle it up.
just thoughts
brother neil
p.s. those four things you listed at the beginning of your post, i think that yogani has stated that, maybe in different words though. however i only hear something when i am ready to hear it, then only later to find out when looking through my writings that i wrote about it ten years earlier, we are a crazy species |
Edited by - brother neil on Nov 14 2008 3:13:25 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2008 : 9:44:27 PM
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Hi Gumpi,
Congratulations, sounds like a nice realization, if things seem bleak in the future, this post of yours will be a good one to look back at.
quote:
how can you believe in God and have no expectations at the same time? Or why, for instance, can Buddhists have spiritual experiences when they don't believe in God?
This first one is a tricky question, but I believe we arrive at a point of no or few expectations as we become increasingly satisfied with ourselves internally. We feel good from within so no longer look externally for things to change our inner state. We learn to please ourselves rather than looking for others (or God) to do it and as we make our perspective more positive slowly over time with daily practices etc. the world makes us happy so what do we need to expect then?
In regards to Buddhists, apparently some do, but as a whole, they focus on alleviating suffering, that is there goal. In any event, it doesn't matter what we believe so much anyway as What Is will make Itself known in the end to sincere seekers. |
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neli
USA
283 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 05:11:55 AM
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Gumpi,
Buddhists have spiritual experiences cause they make strong and long meditations that help the spiritual experience, although that is not their point. What is God for you ?
Neli
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I wish someone had told me or i had read before that experiences come and go, whether in meditation or outside meditation and that you only need a) good behaviour b) faith in the Divine c) meditation come rain or shine and d) loss of body consciousness.
Things would have been so much easier from the start.
Instead of this, i have fought bad moods and anger in meditation then experienced frustration, i have meditated for years with seemingly little result, and i have been filled with doubt about God.
Then to the experiences i HAVE had. When i first started meditating, i would see pinpricks of white light before my eyes just appear then disappear. My tongue has automatically gone back to the roof of my mouth, my breathing rate has slowed considerably on the exhale, i have experienced a visionary type of thing where i was shown solutions to a problem i have been having which seemed like intuitive guidance and the clear distinction that it came from "me" but also from outside of me and the best description i can give it is "higher self". I almost always experience hearing "voices" which i suspect might be clairaudience in a primitive form. I saw a blue dot that was fuzzy and ill-defined around the edges in front of my vision it was huge but hard to distinguish from the background. I saw some type of ET in a vision, i have experienced very tranquil feelings after meditation sometimes and last but not least, the sensation of warmth and coolness combined travelling around my spine and once even travelled up into my shoulders and slightly down the arms.
Outside of meditation, precognitive dreams, synchronicities of major proportions.
Now, all of these experiences only occurred when my faith in God was there. Quite frankly, if i am in a bad mood, feel angry with God etc or i try to reason God out of the equation, my meditations are fruitless.
Then there are the many contradictions and doubts that plague me. Nobody, for instance, seems to have an answer to the following question: how can you believe in God and have no expectations at the same time? Or why, for instance, can Buddhists have spiritual experiences when they don't believe in God?
In other words, there seems to be no rhyme or reason when it comes to spiritual experiences. You either get them or you don't, and you can't conjure them into existence by yourself. God is pulling the strings here. Another thing, people's spiritual experiences are all different anyway. For example, kundalini. This is so many different things to different people, the reasons for it are so varied, i am inclined to think again that God is responsible for them alone. Like this IS the matrix, and our free will is quite meagre.
I look at Ramana Maharshi and i am struck by how he is an example of a real self-realised person BECAUSE he has no ego, no little self, no body consciousness. And yet he had no psychic abilities. Funny isn't it?
Is self-realisation really the big goal we all want? Personally, i find psychic experiences more interesting. Perhaps in the end it really just boils down to less and less ego.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 07:42:16 AM
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If you look at God as some kind of rich parent who holds things back from you then you will get mad at him like a spoiled child. It is my belief that god doesn't manipulate things in our lives. Your karma does. So getting mad at the results of your karma is kinda silly. I'm sure we all do it sometimes.
The very process of wanting experiences instead of the highest goals will hold you back and keep you from getting them as much. Ironic isn't it?
This kind of person may be driven to skipping a lot of meditation sessions, and doing them haphazardly, while thinking he is doing all he can.
The reason is all related to bhakti, the fuel driving our progress.
I suppose it is possible to have a never ending yearning for psychic abilities and experiences, but I don't think it is a high enough ideal to get you very far.
You only really need two of those four things;
bhakti or continuous desire for your highest ideal, and
twice daily meditation.
Everything else comes automatically. Meditation just speeds it up. some saints in the past have achieved everything with just constant desire for god. |
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newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 5:44:59 PM
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For those of faith:
Whose mantra is a concerted prayer for the death of ego?
Is God a destroyer who in grace becomes the lover and uniter?
newpov |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2008 : 11:00:59 PM
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Hey, gumpi, it's impossible to know the Absolute with the mind and every conception would be relative to our imagination. So the Buddha focused on practice and usually avoided questions concerning God and the Self and would say that His purpose was to eliminate stress.
So Christ also taught that it was impossible to know God with the mind and so He taught from the perspective of faith and love, which are beyond the imagination.
Just two different styles of teaching. Here's an article on Buddhism and God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism
Anyway, thank you for sharing your experiences.
Take care:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Nov 17 2008 11:10:29 PM |
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