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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 11:23:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by tadeas
Hi :)
my experience pretty much exactly matches yours. The AYP blocking technique is a beginning and it can evolve in it's own way. The goal though is to stay in front of any kind of climax. In my experience, any climax drains energy, if only a little, even the ones where erection is not lost and you can have multiple orgasms.
Initially, with the manual blocking technique (using fingers) semen is redirected into the bladder where it can be reabsorbed or gets out with urine. Energy loss is still there, but it's a training :)
As for the breath, if it helps draw up energy, it's ok to use it.
I've been using the technique you describe (strong contraction) for more than 2 years and there were no problems so far.
Take care ;)
so you use the technique only when you slip over the edge? |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 1:57:22 PM
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quote:
so you use the technique only when you slip over the edge?
yes :) |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 2:21:31 PM
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Roman, my friend, thank you so much for your thorough reply to my previous post, and for all the inspiration.
It is especially true about following one's intuition and inspiration from "wiser" sources we feel are worth following. We might not be able to see then, but it is ahead. I felt that when starting meditation, there is that kind of limbo where you somehow intuite that is good for you but you still don't feel it. It requires faith and preserverance. But it did paid off! Unfortunately for tantra I have more difficulty of seeing ahead but the descriptions you give (steadly more energy after some months, even if it felt no different in the beggining) are definitely inspiring and motivate me. Unfortunately tantra involves also someone else. I recentely started a relationship with a girl and we haven't yet talked openly about this, but I know she is very understanding and has engaged in pre-orgasmic sex before (without even calling it that), but in this things it always involve other peoples feelings so it has to be my faith plus her faith in me as well!  We'll see...
Still about the faith thing, yesterday I was on the phone with a close friend that is going through some hard times. Funny how now I can be detached enough to see his own patterns of attachment to his thoughts and emotions. I see him suffering for what I clearly saw as useless suffering but even if I tried to convince him of the benefits of the practice of meditation (he has started but will he be steadfast in it?) and how training himself to be in the present and just observe his emotions and thoughts would help, he cannot see it for himself very well. Very curious I found - I could see it clearly but he could not leave for a moment the preocupations he had on his mind, all excuses, in my view, to not be present. Like he was in the middle of a cloud and could not see the open sky around it like I seemed to be able to see. It is faith really - but you need to at least have a slight intuition that something rings true and it's worth trying, and then the courage and persistence to try it and keep at it. Those are the ingredients for success in anything. I don't know if he could see it but in any case, one way or the other, I hope he makes it. |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2009 : 3:43:52 PM
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Interesting posts, Mimiron, YogaIsLife and everybody!
IMHO., both Deida and Yogani try to put things plain about tantra, which isn't easily done. Yogani assumes some interest in, or exp. of, yoga whereas Deida of general spirituality.
There is a lot of mudras and bandhas out there (IMO., Deida made it a bit too simple), but the point is to acquire enough to make it work for one's own body in the instant of hard trial; that's the critical threshold to gradually cross, for everyone. Deida also says that when you've become able to keep on for 45-60 minutes (implying: on the first round, with no ejacs), then you're almost there. After 14 hrs (plus a couple of breaks, but no ejacs) last Sathurday, I definitely agree that the path from 1 h to 14 hrs was easier than the initial one that took me from "totally unpredictable" to 1 hour. So I sure agree it's doable - most miracles come from practice.
Yes, bandhas can be gentle (mostly felt, with a minimum of muscular activity - for ex., moola bandha during asana practice) or forceful/"therapeutical" , using the muscle/-s fully (in for ex, uddyana/agnisara/nauli ). The latter is more like a (very useful) emergency brake, because you want to finally "feel" your Kundalini into your partner, and through her - that is, you gradually use less and less muscular power and finally, over her muscles, you have a subtle influence rather than muscular control.
I find useful Yogani's (and Deida's) emphasis on integrating muscular locks and energy gestures (mudras) with deep relaxed breathing, a loveful openness to her whole body, a clear intent (to control ejacs) and full determination. I also agree with both of them that pranayama, meditation, relaxation and asana practice defuse a lot of tension which otherwise would call for release through a traditional ejac orgasm. As Yogani points out, tantra and yoga practices are closely interrelated. Very much so - in many ways. |
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YogaIsLife
641 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2009 : 08:00:10 AM
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Hi Roman and all,
I still have great difficulty in understanding (let alone doing) the contraction of the pelvic floor. I understand mulabandha very well and I can feel ecstasy going up with a slight contraction of the anus. But will this help in any way during intercourse to prevent or delay ejaculation? I still cannot understand how to contract the "pelvic floor muscles" (in inverted comas because I can't really isolate them at will).
Today I found this very entertaining video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qJp...ture=related
It made me laugh, but at the same time do any of you think these exercises might have any efficiency? Especially the first, involving the breath, some retention, contraction of the anus etc. appears to do something, but will this be beneficial or maybe dangerous?
I think I will try contracting the anus during stimulation to see what happens. When I do it some adjacent anterior muscles (in the perineum -plevic floor muscles?) also seem to contract by default. Is this your experience? It seems to be the technique that comes more natural for me as it seems to have an effect on bringing energy up the spine. But maybe I should leave this technique (mulabandha) for just during formal practice? Or is it ok to experiemnt with it during intercourse? (the same could go with sambhavi mudra for example)
I also am confused because even though I feel ecstasy during mulabandha I don't understand siddhasana. I felt ecstasy with it ocasionally but normally it is unconfortable, even slightly painful. I am quite thin so maybe I am doing harm by applying pressure with my heel on the perineum? Or is it lack of conductivity still?
Any advice gladly welcome! |
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Ampontan
Japan
3 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2009 : 03:14:35 AM
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This is not just a yoga thing, but also a Taoist thing too. Mantak Chia has written the most well known books on the practice, but there are others. It's not his idea; it's also a Chinese tradition.
In that practice you circulate the chi/prana energy over the top of the head to the dan tien once you get it up the spine.
Finding and contracting the pelvic floor muscles takes practice, but it's not that hard. As the OP said, it's not at the root of the lingam but from the perineum up. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4428 Posts |
Posted - Mar 11 2009 : 11:27:10 AM
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Hi Yogaislife,
quote:
I still have great difficulty in understanding (let alone doing) the contraction of the pelvic floor. I understand mulabandha very well and I can feel ecstasy going up with a slight contraction of the anus. But will this help in any way during intercourse to prevent or delay ejaculation? I still cannot understand how to contract the "pelvic floor muscles" (in inverted comas because I can't really isolate them at will).
There is no need to block ejaculation using contraction of the pelvic floor muscles. It basically involves applying a very strong mulabandha at the point of ejaculation. It does the same thing as blocking using the fingers, but has the advantage of using a very strong energy lock at the same time. Blocking (either with pelvic floor contractions or with the fingers) is nearly always a less preferable option than simply staying in front of orgasm, and ending sex without ejaculation of any kind. So you always have the very best option available to you.
quote:
I think I will try contracting the anus during stimulation to see what happens. When I do it some adjacent anterior muscles (in the perineum -plevic floor muscles?) also seem to contract by default. Is this your experience? It seems to be the technique that comes more natural for me as it seems to have an effect on bringing energy up the spine. But maybe I should leave this technique (mulabandha) for just during formal practice? Or is it ok to experiemnt with it during intercourse? (the same could go with sambhavi mudra for example)
Sexual activity can be combined with most yoga practices. All the bandhas and mudras can be used as well as kriyas (such as spinal breathing) and mantra meditation. I don't know if you have read the Secrets of Wilder novel, but in there is a description of a woman (Devi) combining the IAM meditation with lovemaking and sambhavi mudra. The only question here is how to combine spiritual practices with sex and keep everything safe? In the tantra lessons there is a lesson warning about the dangers of this, and Yogani advises there to keep spiritual practices seperate from sex, except for pre-orgasmic (tantric) sex.
http://www.aypsite.org/T33.html
But then, he did once say that some of the more advanced teachings are contained in the Secrets of Wilder novel! So if you think you are getting advanced, you could always experiment and see what happens.
quote:
I also am confused because even though I feel ecstasy during mulabandha I don't understand siddhasana. I felt ecstasy with it ocasionally but normally it is unconfortable, even slightly painful. I am quite thin so maybe I am doing harm by applying pressure with my heel on the perineum? Or is it lack of conductivity still?
If you sit on a soft surface with a cushion or two under your bum, you should be able to sit in siddhasana with only a slight pressure on your perineum. It should feel either gentle with no ecstatic sensations, or gentle with ecstatic sensation. In my experience the sensations can change from one day to the next, even when ecstatic conductivity is present in the body.
Christi
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Mar 29 2009 : 4:25:07 PM
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Hi YogaIsLife & Christi & everybody,
It's a combination of several mudras (gestures) and bandhas (energy locks), plus breathing, opening the heart into full openness, plus intent/determination/dedication. Here or elsewhere, you learn one technique at a time before you combine - therefore, they gradually start to feel easier than relying on only one.
Simplifications are common (and sometimes even confusion - in texts from Astanga, Tao, Sivananda yoga, and many others). In tantric yoga, the contractions are usually more fine-grained and taught one at a time, starting from simply feeling each area, then visualizing a slight contraction there, then making it more and more muscular. It's a yoga practice, based on training and patience like everything else (BtW., patience is great in preorgasmic sex, I wish I had more :-)
Moola: the perineum (you can try drawing it inward/upward on inhalation, and contracting further on exh.)
Ashvini: the anus (to be added to Moola bandha on exh. later)
Vajroli: the uretra, in one or more segments at a time (to be added likewise); the classical point of concentration for Vajroli is the kshetram (front entry) of Svadhistana Chakra, on the pubic bone.
Breathing: deep relaxed breath, or spinal bhastrika if you're too close to the edge.
Khechari: the tip of the tongue.
Sambhawi: the eyes towards the 3rd eye.
Sometimes the ten-finger gesture (sealing off 4 of your senses).
99% of this is in the lectures here.
Later, as you start combining, while feeling and breathing into your partner, the bits of the puzzle come into place and feel natural; you'll need less muscular tension in each squeeze.
Of course it's a lot easier after yoga and meditation practice - the relaxed concentration is already there, you just take it to bed.
Which is not to lean back - the path is the goal, as always.
'Njoy !
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mimirom
Czech Republic
368 Posts |
Posted - Mar 30 2009 : 6:01:11 PM
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Hi HathaTeacher,
great input! Thanks for pointing out and naming the detailed components of the technique. Also the dynamic connection with breathing sounds very attractive.
I was just discovering these additional/partial movements at the root area, and I really found good to engage separately the muscles near the anus+mula bandha, leaving relaxed the muscles being closer to the lingam. This way the maneuvers don't stimulate the urge toward ejaculation. Thanks for providing structure on this.
I find spinal breathing during arousal also good. This was recommended by Anthem in his brilliant Tantra "levers" - igniting the fire thread. I find it very natural during tantric practice (including sambhavi), almost automatic.
Another interesting thing was experimenting with Bahya Kumbhaka (breath retention after exhalation.) I found that during bahya kumbhaka the energy is being strongly pulled upwards, out from the pelvic region. Thus this shortens the time needed for "holding back" (when this is practiced/needed.) This was also recommended by Anthem. What I think was not recommended anywhere so far, is Uddiyana Bandha. I experimented with that, and found it also great. In my case, a combination of bahya kumbhaka/mula bandha/uddiyana bandha, even if applied fairly close to orgasm, literarily sucks the energy out from the pelvis. This is so intense that with this combination, going from "almost ejaculating" to "lost erection" could take really a couple seconds.
I also experimented with adding this combination while blocking orgasm with pelvic contraction, and it was really surprisingly effective. It felt like sucking all the energy, that was already half the way out of the lingam, simply back in. No orgasm at all. So this would be an improved "emergency brake." I'm just not sure if uddiyana looks very sexy...
YIL, it lately came to my mind, that another important thing could be helpful for you. Try to form the intention to preserve and control your sexual energy already at the very beginning of lovemaking. Experiment with the techniques from the very beginning, even when you are far from orgasm. Try to carefully move every bit of the energy upwards all the time, and don't move closer to orgasm, into greater arousal. Use holding back, and stay there. I believe that if you manage to keep going like this for some time (maybe 40, 50 minutes) your energy could start to behave in a different way in your body (like my does), and you will be able to go into greater arousal without constantly needing to ejaculate. Be patient.
try to stay
around here
 ============================================>
Best wishes,
Roman |
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HathaTeacher
Sweden
382 Posts |
Posted - Apr 01 2009 : 12:47:21 PM
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Thanks for reminding me. I probably did some of this intuitively the night I kept on for 14 hrs without ejacs. She loved it but I don't think we'll match that figure anytime soon, now that we've pleasant temperatures out of bed as well :-))
I think after yoga and meditation, the body and mind go smoothly where I want them too, whereas if there are rests of stress, a lot more conscious control is needed.
Bahya kumbhaka is sometimes called Little Death, it's really a fast and extreme withdrawal from the senses. Combining with 2 or all 3 bandhas (Mahabandha) makes it even more powerful. David Deida wrote you should follow it up with several cycles of deep breath before a retry, in order to circulate the energy freely. That's in line with how Kumbhaka is taught in yoga classes, too (either way - Bahya or Antara).
Your point about Vajroli is also useful, if you'll too close Vajroli alone doesn't stop you from tipping over the edge. However, the concentration point on the pubic bone helps a little. |
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markern
Norway
171 Posts |
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ramon198535
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Nov 10 2011 : 1:12:34 PM
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| I just tried this myself. No orgasmic contractions or semen at all. So that means that no semen was redirected to my bladder right? I'm sorry if somebody answered this already. I want to be as safe as possible about this. |
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Blocking Male Orgasm With Pelvic Contraction
