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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 9:34:10 PM
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Can anyone help with advice. For the last little while, intermittently, I seem to start getting sucked into this deep trancelike state while meditating, or during samyama, or rest afterward. I decided tonight that I definitely don't like it.
It seems that others here are calling this samadhi but it is not what I would call samadhi. I have had other experiences which I think would be rightly called that, but this is like being on a drug and I have a hard time pulling myself out of it. It is also NOT sleep because I am aware throughout in a groggy sort of way. This last 2 evenings it was particularly difficult to snap out of it. It is as if the rest period never wants to end. I guess I need some self pacing but what should I self pace? I already have cut back on most of the practices.
Here is my schedule, pretty consistently for over a year. SB for about 5 minutes, just recently added tongue to behind the teeth. DM for 10 minutes or 15 if I lose track of time. Samyama one repetition only. This is the point where it usually gets weird. I get lost about half way through and it gets really hard to remember the next sutra. Then I intend to rest but instead go "away."
The whole routine ends up lasting about an hour. So my rest period is about 30 minutes. That would be okay with me because I know I have some deep purification/healing to do. The problem is I am not coming out of it easily nor am I feeling good having a lot of irritability like a bear after hibernation.  
To sum up, would anyone recommend what to do that would lighten my practice with less grogginess? Thanks so much. Jill |
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Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 10:30:04 PM
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I'm pretty sure the trance state is probably due to either too much third eye awareness or too much energy up there. You can reach a trance state focusing on most any chakra, though I have to agree with you, the third eye one, is a bit too "spaced out" especially if your roots aren't in deep.
I think it basically means, your lining up with the energy of that chakra beyond what your body is normally used to. Focusing on "nothing at all" rather than "nothing in particular" definetly really increases the third eye trance state for me.
It definetly made me a bit too indifferent to much of my life happenings, having too much energy in the third eye, and almost being too "in the moment".
Third eye's great for showing you where to burn karma, which is probably why you have the irritability. POssibly too much karma burning at once. If you often feel heat in areas of your body, that's usually karmic blockages burning off. I reckon focus on balancing out the burning of past karma and the looking towards future growth, but both must be done in moderation.
I swear, yesterday was a too much future day for me, and today was too much past karma burning. Been pushing things a bit too much lately, and it can definetly make for much irritibality, as your body tries to hold on to all these truths you're instilling and untruths you're letting go of.
I've been reading the Dhammapada lately. I love how it helps me keep in mind to balance both the future and the past, but in a slow but steady sort of way. It's\ always sort of a gentle loving forgiving and growing sort of energy I find I get by reading slowly and introspecting a little bit while reading. But all must be done in moderation... which Im still learning.
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Edited by - Divineis on Oct 15 2008 10:31:24 PM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Oct 15 2008 : 11:24:13 PM
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Hi Jill:
It is a stage of purification that will run its course. This too shall pass. If it is causing too much discomfort or concern, then it may make sense to discontinue samyama until you have more clarity and less irritability when you get up and go back into activity.
An alternative is to shorten the time between sutra repetitions temporarily, which can also help smooth things out. It is self-pacing the time between sutras rather than stopping the practice altogether. This is a nuance of self-pacing in samyama that can be helpful in situations like this.
Either way, if there is discomfort or concern, it is time to scale back a bit until this purification stage moves forward into to a clearer opening.
The long rest period is good when this sort of purification is going on. If you have time to keep doing that, it will help. When this fuzziness/dullness has dissipated it will be a much brighter day. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
PS: Also make sure to engage in a good amount of activity during the day -- grounding. That will help integrate the new opening as it occurs
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 07:47:55 AM
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Agree with everything Yogani said.
I go through phases like this too.. get pulled into meditation and feel like I am drugged.. or feel "medicine head".. the disconnected feeling.. very hard to get out of meditation and feel groggy during and at times a little after meditation.
It is a purification phase, and will go away.. so like Yogani said, self pace if it makes you feel uncomfortable. And staying active during the day helps a lot.
The thing that helps me.. and it took me some time to get this... is to allow.. the reason you are not asleep is because there is a part of you that is resisting it.. the part that has decided it "definitely does not like it"  ... if you relax completely and let go and allow to get sucked into this void.. you will fall into a kind of sleep state that Yogani talks about in this lesson
quote:
No sensory experience, no mantra, no thoughts, but still conscious
inside – were you asleep? Probably not. Meditation sometimes produces
a sleep-like state, like you described, but the physiological
parameters are different. The metabolism goes much lower than in
sleep. Heart rate and breathing are much slower than in sleep, nearly
stopped. The body and mind come to a state of complete silence, while
still awake inside. The level of rest in the body and mind in
meditation is deeper than sleep. It is a different kind of rest that
removes impurities; obstructions to consciousness that sleep cannot
reach.
This way.. when you stop fighting it.. and allow the state to take you.. you get over the purification more quickly and with very little or no discomfort.
Hope this helps. |
Edited by - Shanti on Oct 16 2008 07:52:14 AM |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 6:26:51 PM
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Thanks everyone for the feedback.
Yogani I tried your advice of cutting the samyama shorter and it felt right while I was doing it, and I felt much more comfortable afterward too this morning. No irritability. It is probably too soon to tell but I feel encouraged.
Jill |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2008 : 8:59:14 PM
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| I go through periods where I feel what I think is the same as you post-meditation. I will lay there and feel like I can't get up! I'm not sleeping...just "out". I don't stress about it although sometimes it gets me backed up in my daily obligations. I think it is a sign of deep purification and if you don't stress about it and let it run its course and get out of it VERY gradually it serves a great function of integration...or at least that's how I see it. Enjoy the relaxation :-) I like to follow my breath. |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2008 : 2:56:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
This way.. when you stop fighting it.. and allow the state to take you.. you get over the purification more quickly and with very little or no discomfort.
Hope this helps.
I just wanted to thank you Shanti for pointing this out. I WAS fighting it and it was because I felt that my family would not like it if I was in there resting for over an hour.
And thanks Anthony for pointing out that the pull of regular life's activities might be pulling me out and causing me irritation when I would really like to process this stuff when I need to.
So I just went with it yesterday when it happened and found it was actually fun to investigate it. My mind got a little hyper actually doing so, and I see that I have a dual situation within. Part of me is driven by thoughts and activities, feels like on the left side of my head, and this might even be the source of some deep exhaustion, perhaps even adrenal burnout from PTSD, which feels like it is on the right side of my head.
So I am going to embrace it from now on. It actually is a lot better since I cut back on the Samyama time anyway.
One last thing along the line of embracing what is. I just learned about someone named Lynn Grabhorn (what a name!) in a book called Beyond the 12 Steps. There is a little exercise she recommends dealing with feelings. 1. Trust, a feeling is just that and will pass 2. Allow it & 3. Own it, Love it or as I put it Embrace it. It is part of you and worth loving attention.
Now if I can just remember all this on the fly. 
Love to all,
Jill |
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Yogajan
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 11:38:46 AM
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Hi Jill,
your post made me think of the poem by Rumi called The Guest House which is a good reminder for me to just let my feelings be what they are (I've posted it below) . I also love Pema Chodron's books which talk alot about sitting with the feelings but not getting caught up in the story line (not something I do well at but improving on). Love, Jan
THE GUEST HOUSE
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they are a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice.
meet them at the door laughing and invite them in.
Be grateful for whatever comes.
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
-- Jelaluddin Rumi,
translation by Coleman Barks
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 1:56:00 PM
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Thanks Jan, I love Rumi. One time when I was in California a friend owned a book store. There was an event where some musicians who played music for Coleman Barks' tapes of his Rumi translations had a jam session. It was the most heavenly music I have ever heard, never to be repeated.
Love,
Jill |
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Nirodha
New Zealand
86 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2008 : 5:16:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jillatay
The whole routine ends up lasting about an hour. So my rest period is about 30 minutes. That would be okay with me because I know I have some deep purification/healing to do. The problem is I am not coming out of it easily nor am I feeling good having a lot of irritability like a bear after hibernation.
To sum up, would anyone recommend what to do that would lighten my practice with less grogginess? Thanks so much. Jill
Hi Jill,
I've had this happen too, every now and then. The conclusion I've come to about it was that I was falling into very light sleep-like states. It's not exactly Samadhi, and it's not exactly sleep - it's somewhere in between. I was conscious of it, but I had no focus and no energy (viriya).
What I do to overcome it is just ramp up the frequency of that focus-relaxing cycle I use, on any object of meditation, until a Jhana factor or Nimitta arises. Once this happens, of course, the drowsiness, lack of focus and apathy will disappear, and I just sit there enjoying the Jhana. Upon arising from such sessions I feel refreshed.
Kind regards |
Edited by - Nirodha on Oct 19 2008 5:22:47 PM |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2008 : 1:09:05 PM
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Hi Bill,
Hope all is well with you.
Love,
Jill |
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Trancelike state
