quote:

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How do I know about these? I wish you did not have to ask. I could tell you that I have seen the light. I could also tell you I have seen the end of time, perhaps it was the beginning, beneath the light. Having seen, seeing ceased. The source of all is a very deep mystery.

In the beginning and the end, the Cosmos was without form, and void, formless and empty; and darkness was upon the face of the deep Mystery of mysteries.

Without form, void, formless, empty, not conscious, selfless, unlit, deep, dark.

It is not the lights which are ultimately real, but the darkness. It is this essential darkness which generates the selfless nature of love, and love generates this Cosmos and we in it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yogani

Hi TMS:

But what if you are wrong? To whom else (living) can you point for verification of what you are saying? And how can everyone benefit similarly without falling into despair over the life they are now living? Despair is the fruit of a path based on the intellectual gymnastics of nothingness. There are many here who can verify that.

These are legitimate questions that a traveler may ask of one who claims to know the way. All you have shared so far is concepts, criticisms of what others are doing, and some methods that may or may not deliver.

Incidentally, the breath retention method you recommend here can be destabilizing or outright dangerous for some practitioners. Perhaps it will be better to work on the system rather than on the beliefs of others.

I am not trying to give you a hard time. Well, maybe a little. It is all for the good.

No one here is obliged to take anyone's word for it, least of all mine. The measure of truth is not in our words. If it is to be found anywhere, it will be in reliable means leading to direct experience of the unending freedom we all have longed for. That is all that matters. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Your experience and how you arrived in it are of much greater interest than exhortations about how others ought to think and believe. Thanks for sharing.

The guru is in you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

there is no evidence of G-d.

The whole premise of your question is flawed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

themysticseeker,

I have direct experience with self-lessness that you speak of...confirmed my multiple sources. I used to post on the big Buddist forum Esangha.

I have to also tell you, you are mistaken in many of your views.

Direct experience of self-lessness is enlightenment....yes you are correct on that. And in Theravada view, you are finished at this stage. But in Mahayana (the view you purport to profess by claiming to help other beings) self-lessness is only the first bhumi (and also the last bhumi...its confusing I know). Enlightenment is not sudden or gradual...it is free from extremes.

Also you have numerous fundamental misunderstanding of the rainbow body. Please look at the book I posted.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Suryakant

quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

I'm ... Mohammed, Jesus, Lau Tzu, the Buddha, and the Hopi ... Disregard that at your peril.

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quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

quote:

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Originally posted by yogani

Hi TMS:

But what if you are wrong? To whom else (living) can you point for verification of what you are saying? And how can everyone benefit similarly without falling into despair over the life they are now living? Despair is the fruit of a path based on the intellectual gymnastics of nothingness. There are many here who can verify that.

These are legitimate questions that a traveler may ask of one who claims to know the way. All you have shared so far is concepts, criticisms of what others are doing, and some methods that may or may not deliver.

Incidentally, the breath retention method you recommend here can be destabilizing or outright dangerous for some practitioners. Perhaps it will be better to work on the system rather than on the beliefs of others.

I am not trying to give you a hard time. Well, maybe a little. It is all for the good.

No one here is obliged to take anyone's word for it, least of all mine. The measure of truth is not in our words. If it is to be found anywhere, it will be in reliable means leading to direct experience of the unending freedom we all have longed for. That is all that matters. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Your experience and how you arrived in it are of much greater interest than exhortations about how others ought to think and believe. Thanks for sharing.

The guru is in you.

---

Yes. I can understand you. Thank you for this direction. I will answer you the best I can. You are right, my practice is destabilizing, losing a sense of self is extremely disorienting, but necessary.

What if I am wrong? Show me otherwise. I independently arrived at an understanding that I later found was in line with other seers. The Earth validates my finding. I will explain in a bit, but essentially, I saw something in meditation, a vision and knowledge, if you will. Then to articulate what I saw, which was wordless, I had to read what others said. I saw the meaning of what I saw first in Tao, then the New Testament, "God is love," then Hopi, then Buddha's Pali Canon, then Sufi teaching. It all ties to love. Love is not something understood in meditation. Love is an act. Meditation is the stillness of not acting. What is understood in meditation is total release of self, or selflessness, that or the union of self with Cosmic Mind. So Yoganiji, despite what you say, I'm telling what NOT to think and what NOT to believe. Don't cling. That's it. There's nothing to despair or fear, just have faith, let go and leave it be. Great Peace is waiting.

Despair over the path of nothingness. Yoganiji, I am not speaking about the path of nothingness or the path of no path. I am speaking about the path of meditation, relief from anxiety, and the complete end of stress. What I'm discussing is the path of real lasting happiness and peace. In the depths of samadhi, I'm afraid, many striving yogis reach the end of progress, and experience a block. The yogi emerges saying, "I'll try this, then I'll try that." That is the wrong approach. The bliss state of deep relaxation is correct, then further relaxation must occur. The final knot must be untied. Except it is not tied. It is held. Who is holding? The Self. When the final clasp is released, the self ceases to be. There is no despair, here. You get the distinct sense, not that we are one, but that we are connected, tethered together by karma to reflect peace on Earth as it is (not in God) but in "heaven" the perfect undisturbed peace.

It is perfect calm; I can only describe it as relief. It is as if I have been carrying a cross all my life and I have finally put it down; immense relief. What that is, that presence in that moment is just a guess. I don't have words for it. All I know is that it is only realized by releasing the final vestige of a self. I think it must take great faith for the yogi to let that last thing go. It is diving into the unknown. It is scary; I was first quite scared. But it is a great relief, and am filled with compassion and love for all who venture into this awe-inspiring place. It is only for the lion-hearted. We are the Cosmos. That is not nothing. It is just not a self.

My system. I arrived at my finding with simple breath observance. I mastered my kundalini when I was just a boy. I can focus my kundalini anywhere I want, even in my hands, so I meditated with kundalini in various regions. When I focused it in my crown, I flew into outer space, shot out of the universe and popped out of the membrane of this universe, into the space between universes in a sea of golden energy that I will describe only as pure will. The I AM energy. From there I could go anywhere or do anything I wanted. I won't elaborate on what I did. That was about 20 years ago.

Focusing kundalini in different areas resulted in various anomalies. The forehead resulted in stopping mind and seeing the rainbow body emerge from a seed into white light. Focusing at hands caused anyone I touched to become obsessed with possessing me. Focusing at my stomach resulted in eating vast amounts of food, like a bottomless pit until my body burned like a high fever and I felt like a fierce predator. Focus on my voice resulted in thousand of people being entranced by me, like I was a rock star. Focus in my lower regions resulted in love god realm here, and I led many people into depravity. For this I am very sorry. The heart eluded me. I couldn't contact it. It was as if my heart was maligned by all these worldly and exciting experiences. It was alienated and cut off. I had no insight into its importance. I basically disregarded it. All my search for the fireworks of sex, stomach, voice and mind resulted in total imbalance.

I sought to correct this problem. I spent many years meditating to resolve my problem. Why was my heart so cold? One day, deep in meditation for many hours, I felt drawn into my heart, I felt so many sorrows and regrets. I felt the vortex pulling me in, similar to when I shot out into space; this was not out, but in. I was sucked in through my heart, into the heart of the Cosmos. I saw "emanations" is the best I can describe it, which I interpreted as God. I asked the emanations, "what does it all mean?" or "show me the way" or both. Something like that.

I was shown a vision of the end of time. I saw the universe literally burn out with the end of time. I saw time, like a fire, like acid, burning through everything in the material plane until it was all gone, dissolved. All living beings dissolved. Nothing remained. All that remained was a warm presence, a sense of all possibility, wholeness and vast eternal peace. It was like being in an endless womb. It was a deep dark mystery of no-thing-at-all, but all-things-possible. This is the best I can do. It was the ultimate peace. Just as the universe burned out, I felt an extreme longing from Cosmic Mind, a deep regret that all living beings did not stop living in their own worlds and liberate themselves from selfish delusions. In the end, this Cosmic Mind relinquished all sense of self to merge into the deep mystery, the Tao, if you will. The feeling was indescribable, something like nostalgia, something like coming home, something like secure and safe, something life free and totally calm.

Then I was shown the nature of consciousness here and now; my sense of self was ripped apart and I saw all consciousness simply as a vast network of connections, like a web spanning many dimensions. At all the intersecting parts of the web, I saw something like drops of mercury, reflecting all other drops like a vast hall of mirrors. That was unbearable. I couldn't handle that. I had to shake myself to come out of that, totally disorienting. I didn't know who I was for about ten minutes.

When I emerged from my meditation, I had no words to describe what I saw, I only knew it in my heart. To help me translate what I saw and understood about the source of the Cosmos, I looked everywhere. In science, in every mystical and religious text, every modern teaching. At this point, I've read everything in depth several times. I was hanging at a Tibetan monastery looking at the Guhuyasamaja Tantra, when I don't know what hit me; it could have been the ray of sunlight beaming down from the sunroof.

The word "selflessness" jumped into my mind. At that moment, structures of knowledge fell into place. I understood how God is Love means God is selfless support for all life (and as such is indistinguishable from the Cosmos), love one another as you would be loved, inter-dependent origination and non-self nature of all things, the Tao, returning to emptiness, oblivion of the self in the presence of God and selflessness (the Sufi way), Cosmic Mind and its view, the cycles of time and history, the Navajo, Mayan and Hopi prophesies. It all fell into place as one whole.

You say I have a narrow view, but my view is shared by the history of the world, the Christ, the Sufi, the Jew, the Buddha, the Taoist, the Natives, Black Elk. It's all about the heart of love and blending into nature. Nature is a conglomerate, not a self.

Patanjali is a relatively minor figure among these folks. All these teachers say that without the correct view, the correct intent and the correct intention the tree will not bear fruit. All these teachers also emphasize the heart. It is not about sex energy. It is about heart energy. It is not about being; it is about being together in peace with one another. We really need the support of each other to be happy; that requires selflessness.

I'm not alone here. There are many of us who are going to join the collective consciousness as selfless beings dedicated to the Earth Mother. Don't get lost chasing rainbows. If you do, you will suffer for it. I wish it were another way, but it's not. We are going to need togetherness to survive what's coming. Plant your roots in the soil of "we."

People search here and search there. My brother-in-law just returned from Egypt living with the Tribe of Benjamin in a 3000 year old Hebrew settlement outside of Cairo. He was there to discuss helping them rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. He was told his visit there was a recollection, because RA opened his eye of time and saw all their talks about the temple. That's quite a dream. Why don't we dream of peace instead, just peace, without the temple.

There is One Way, One Only Way, "Cling to No Thing Whatsoever." Stage dive into our millions of hands. Have faith and do not doubt, you will receive anything you ask for, even paradise and peace on Earth.

I can reconcile your view with mine. You believe in a Self. That Self must have a selfless intention toward all living beings, and is never self-centered for any reason, so much so, that that Self never even says "I".

The best thing I have to give is not some practice. All these practices are as good as any. There's nothing special about any of them. The best thing I have is the correct starting point. How you walk the path is up to you.

Walk the path with the intent to reach enlightenment, not for Self, but for the selfless and altruistic purpose of dedicating your life to the liberation of all intelligent beings. Knowing now that you are an indispensable member of the enlightenment team, let go, let go. Free your Self. Lose your Self. May you find peace.

Ah...

TMS

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Originally posted by Ananda
Hi TMS:

that's a beautiful post my friend.

having been very much involved in the practice and study of suffism in the past plus am still interacting with some suffi friends of mine.

i agree with you concerning the selfless state, it's the right explanation for it but that's my opinion on the matter and yours and not everyone can relate to it.

so let's leave it to the one who realizes it.

and btw there are two opinions on this state in suffism, one who calls it al fanai fi allah (melting or extinguishing in god) and the second calls it al bakai fi allah (the state of being in the presence of god).

now concerning what you're offering it's beautiful and might be true, except the fact that i cannot experience what you just mentioned above directly without going there myself.

and i for person am not convinced until i experience the real deal firsthand.

so concerning what you're sharing with us; it's one thing if it's right or wrong and another thing if you're forcing your opinions and experiences on us (which sadly you are in this case).

cz i mentioned b4 up there, even suffis disagree among themselves on how to describe truth and that's due to some dogmatic issues...

there is no one way which is right for everyone in spiritual matters.

it all goes down to one's personal experience and the way he was brought up.

and i like both of your opinions; you and yogani.

but out of my personal experience, yogani has given me the tools to manifest and experience what he's saying in a logical manner which needs time.

and i am more convinced day by day that what his teachings are true due to first hand personal experiences even with the highs and lows.

now concerning what you are sharing with us, i've read it all as well and been through it. (concerning advaita vedanta and buddhism, you can say i soaked myself in them but still...)

what i'm pointing at is, there are some ripe souls who are ready for your kind of teaching and others like myself who are not ready and might experience some fake or an illusion of the sense of true self in them. "(been there as well)

so let's keep thing easy and smooth, as i said to alwayson to each his sailing boat.

namaste my friend,

Ananda

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quote:

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Despair is the fruit of a path based on the intellectual gymnastics of nothingness. There are many here who can verify that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

themysticseeker,

I have direct experience with self-lessness that you speak of...confirmed my multiple sources. I used to post on the big Buddist forum Esangha.

I have to also tell you, you are mistaken in many of your views.

Direct experience of self-lessness is enlightenment....yes you are correct on that. And in Theravada view, you are finished at this stage. But in Mahayana (the view you purport to profess by claiming to help other beings) self-lessness is only the first bhumi (and also the last bhumi...its confusing I know). Enlightenment is not sudden or gradual...it is free from extremes.

Also you have numerous fundamental misunderstanding of the rainbow body. Please look at the book I posted.

---

I would have to say, that I'm probably more in the Theravada camp. Enlightenment is relatively sudden, because when you say "that's it." That's it. I'll look at the book. I love reading. I started with Tibetan Buddhism, but found it off the mark. I don't think I see the rainbow body as they do. I don't see it as a dharmakaya. I see all realms as illusory.

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Originally posted by Anthem11

TMS thank you for sharing your perspective and experiences.

Experiences are wonderful and can completely change our perspectives on life but they are also fleeting moments in time that quickly fade into the past. Considering that reality flows ever on in the Now, the instant we try to hold on to a past experience no matter how profound, we limit our understanding of the infinite ever-changing here and now. We try to fit everything into a framework of understanding based on a past experience which limits our ability to be open, flexible, completely drink in the now and effectively communicate our unique perspective to others.

By always learning rather than have learned, by always seeing rather than have seen, by being open to all the possibilities rather than any one experience, we can go from past glimpses to a perpetual state of interconnected being.

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quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

themysticseeker,

I have direct experience with self-lessness that you speak of...confirmed my multiple sources. I used to post on the big Buddist forum Esangha.

I have to also tell you, you are mistaken in many of your views.

Direct experience of self-lessness is enlightenment....yes you are correct on that. And in Theravada view, you are finished at this stage. But in Mahayana (the view you purport to profess by claiming to help other beings) self-lessness is only the first bhumi (and also the last bhumi...its confusing I know). Enlightenment is not sudden or gradual...it is free from extremes.

Also you have numerous fundamental misunderstanding of the rainbow body. Please look at the book I posted.

---

I would have to say, that I'm probably more in the Theravada camp. Enlightenment is relatively sudden, because when you say "that's it." That's it. I'll look at the book. I love reading. I started with Tibetan Buddhism, but found it off the mark. I don't think I see the rainbow body as they do. I don't see it as a dharmakaya. I see all realms as illusory.

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I agree with you that enlightenment is sudden and complete.

You are not understanding the path at all though.

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Originally posted by YogaIsLife

Hi. I am speaking from a begginer's point of view (in the "spiritual path"). It is fascinating being able to witness what I considered great people that have seen the truth or glimpses of the truth discussing. But I couldn't help but wonder about a few things.

First of all I wanted to reply because of what Yogani wrote:

quote:

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Despair is the fruit of a path based on the intellectual gymnastics of nothingness. There are many here who can verify that.

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I can confirm this. I have never been a formal seeker but somehow (it is my nature) I have always been an obstinate seeker of truth. I just did it everywhere, anywhere, always. I was born like this. Especially when alone I would love to dive into the nothingness of it all, the black hole inside. I almost had an inate mission to destroy myself, all my thoughts, my body, all illusions. Nothing seemed real to me, reality was very flexible and permeable. "What is the meaning of this?" This is the sense I was born with, or so it seems, I had never heard of yoga or any "spiritual path" and would not for many years, until recentely. But still, I almost detroyed myself because of this approach, whcih I now consider as very similar to an agressive destruction of the self, maybe an advaita kind of practice, but I don't want to put labels to it, or ofend any tradition! (that is the difficulty with the "truth" and words that seems to be happening here). What I do know is that it was not a balanced harmonious loving approach, but a destructive one. Maybe effective, but not pleaseant. It sure did not take me to pleaseant shores. And now I see the "path" can be smoother and pleaseant and gradual. Thanks AYP for letting me see that.

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Originally posted by Suryakant

quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

... I flew into outer space ... and I led many people to join ... it ...

Ah...

TMS

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quote:

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Originally posted by yogani

Hi TMS:

But what if you are wrong? To whom else (living) can you point for verification of what you are saying? And how can everyone benefit similarly without falling into despair over the life they are now living? Despair is the fruit of a path based on the intellectual gymnastics of nothingness. There are many here who can verify that.

These are legitimate questions that a traveler may ask of one who claims to know the way. All you have shared so far is concepts, criticisms of what others are doing, and some methods that may or may not deliver.

Incidentally, the breath retention method you recommend here can be destabilizing or outright dangerous for some practitioners. Perhaps it will be better to work on the system rather than on the beliefs of others.

I am not trying to give you a hard time. Well, maybe a little. It is all for the good.

No one here is obliged to take anyone's word for it, least of all mine. The measure of truth is not in our words. If it is to be found anywhere, it will be in reliable means leading to direct experience of the unending freedom we all have longed for. That is all that matters. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Your experience and how you arrived in it are of much greater interest than exhortations about how others ought to think and believe. Thanks for sharing.

The guru is in you.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

[quote]Originally posted by themysticseeker

[quote]Originally posted by alwayson

You are not understanding the path at all though.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Suryakant

quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

... I flew into outer space ... and I led many people into depravity ... Patanjali is a relatively minor figure ... I'm not alone here. There are many of us who are going to join ... If you do, you will suffer for it ...

Ah...

TMS

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quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

[quote]Originally posted by themysticseeker

[quote]Originally posted by alwayson

You are not understanding the path at all though.

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Care to elaborate on the understanding of Dzogchen path and the rainbow body?

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quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

quote:

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Originally posted by themysticseeker

quote:

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Originally posted by alwayson

[quote]Originally posted by themysticseeker

[quote]Originally posted by alwayson

You are not understanding the path at all though.

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Care to elaborate on the understanding of Dzogchen path and the rainbow body?

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One elaboration I would like to make is that Omniscience/All-knowing is the goal, not just self-lessness. Buddhas can read your thoughts, know all of the past, all of the future, can send out emanation bodies etc etc. THAT is the final goal.


Self-lessness is the fundamental step towards this and is the primary basis for omniscience rising, but is not the final goal. (But also emptiness IS the final goal because omniscience is the dharmakaya which is the mindstream. Everyone's mindstream is already Buddha...honestly )

My understanding is that Omniscience/Knowledge automatically arises when the body is "purified" so to speak through mahamudra (buddist kundalini) or through thogal or preferably both...

When you raise kundalini to its full....and I know of only ONE person who has done it, no matter how many people claim to have done it on the internet....you get a special light body that grows out of your chakras which hangs around until you merge with it at death. This is confirmed by Mahamudra and also that one person. My understanding is that they can also continue to raise kundalini repeatedly to also obtain the traditional rainbow body.

Now thogal supposedly takes one to rainbow body directly and I guess without that second "backup" light body that grows out of the chakras.


Another point I want to clear up is if someone had the Great Transfer light body, they would look totally normal, but they would cast no shadow, and your hand would go right through them...assuming they wish to remain to be seen by humans, which is rare. There are some Buddist and Bon figures who have done this.

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