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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 30 2005 : 9:39:37 PM
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In the spirit of horizontal learning mentioned recently by David, I wanted to share with the group some observations on pranayama "spinal breathing".
I was the opposite of Victor in that meditation for me was the more natural of practices and pranayama was the less intuitive.
Back when I started, I had very little sensation in my spine. In fact, things felt more noticable in my front. Overtime however, I initially began to feel sensations near the base of the spine. This gradually expanded and I slowly became aware of specific sensations higher up the sushumna during pranayama. Although some days I felt like I wasn't able to be aware of some random parts of my spine, over the course of some months the flow of energy has expanded tremendously where there is an expansiveness of energy from top to bottom.
So for those out there where nothing seems to be happening, persist, it is just a matter of time.
One thing that appears to have significantly accelerated the expansion of pranayama spinal breathing for me, (in addition to all the steps outlined by Yogani) was initially visualizing white light travelling up and down the spinal nerve with my breath and awareness. I also saw this flow of light as expanding. After a while it seemed to be there automatically.
Maybe others will find this useful and if anyone else has anything they would like to add please do. |
Edited by - Anthem on Aug 30 2005 9:58:29 PM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2005 : 09:27:06 AM
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Hi Anthem!
Thanks a lot for the note on your pranayama experiences. It is really cool that for you it worked out in the course of a few months. For me pranayama is still half-baked so it is encouraging to read your note but meditation and samyama are great.
I'd like to share a weird experience that happened to me only one time. During meditation I got distracted by the feeling that I am breathing in and out not from the nose but from a point between the eyebrows! It felt completely real as if I had a hole there or my nose had moved there. There was a definite feeling of 'air' coming in and out of that point that was much stronger compared to what I can achieve when I am consciously trying to direct attention during spinal breathing. This showed me how proper spinal breathing might actually feel and is an incentive to move on. It happened spontaneously during meditation and not pranayama and it was the opposite direction of spinal breathing but still better than nothing  
Cheers,
Lili
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
So for those out there where nothing seems to be happening, persist, it is just a matter of time.
Maybe others will find this useful and if anyone else has anything they would like to add please do.
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Edited by - Lili on Aug 31 2005 09:35:48 AM |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Aug 31 2005 : 9:12:36 PM
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Hi,
I too started meditation and pranayama and the latter is really the boring part for me. I've been doing since past 7 months or so with small breaks in between but no results with pranayama so far. Meditation is more deeper but no experiences there too.
But as yogani says the change is happening whether you perceive it or not. So I hope and beleieve I am still opening up from inside and continue my practices. So hopefully one day I will find pranayama more interesting than meditation itself when i feel the sensations up and down my spine.
Near |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2005 : 1:10:34 PM
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That's a great experience Lili. For me, I also find that those moments of grace, where we get a brief experience or insight into where practices are leading, are extremely motivating. I think it is prudent however, to not become to attached to them as they can tend to cause us to look for something during practices instead of being open and allowing anything to unfold.
Nearoanoke, I think it is tough some times to perceive the changes in ourselves from practices especially if we are looking from day to day. If we compare ourselves as we are now to how we were when we started, in your case 7 months ago, then that is when the differences become more apparent. There may not be bells and whistles during the process but how are you different in your day to day life and the way you handle life's challenges? That is more important I think?
Some days I feel I have hit a plateau and others I feel deep growth. I have learned that the most powerful agent of change is consistancy. A little bit of effort every day over a longer period of time is far more powerful then a lot of effort over a shorter period of time.
Anthem11
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 01 2005 : 1:56:17 PM
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Hi Lili, Near,
just saying more or less the same thing as Andrew. Lili, this may be an Ajna chakra blockage releasing. Be glad of them when you have them (particularly if they are not too distracting), but be aware also that good stuff can be happening without you knowing it, so be happy when you meditation is 'quiet' too.
Welcome to the new board, Near.
-David |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Sep 01 2005 1:57:04 PM |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2005 : 08:56:48 AM
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Hi David, Anthem,
You are right that we should not get attached and everything but it is hard not to notice something like that. I was hoping that something like that would happen the next time also but nothing happened  But the practice as a whole is rarely 'quiet' because there is always somthething going on in samyama.
Btw can you manage to stick with the alotted time for samyama? I find it hard to fit in because it is so pleasant just to hang there I don't move on to the next sutras on time. Near did you try samyama or not yet?
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Hi Lili, Near,
just saying more or less the same thing as Andrew. Lili, this may be an Ajna chakra blockage releasing. Be glad of them when you have them (particularly if they are not too distracting), but be aware also that good stuff can be happening without you knowing it, so be happy when you meditation is 'quiet' too.
Welcome to the new board, Near.
-David
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2005 : 10:56:31 AM
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Hi Lili,
there are much worse things you can be doing with your time than hanging in there enjoying the last sutra for 'too long'. Probably, all told, even if you allowed yourself to do this, you might find it balancing naturally eventually to a time more like 15 seconds. Why not go straight to the end though, and take them as given, around 15 seconds each?
Meditation is a very subtle game which the mind is best kept out of. When you meditiate it is very fine to deeply enjoy what you have during it, but you also want to stop looking for what you want during it. So my best advice is to take that 'around 15 seconds' as a given, and don't try to improve the experience over what you get with that.
I speak from experience -- I took what you might call the more 'jazzy' route of taking as long as I like. But as my own samyamas matured, they did settle into around 15 seconds. I think I'd have lost nothing, and maybe gained something, by keeping to the stricter practice. But honestly, I don't know for sure.
Certainly picking and choosing what feels best while you meditate can be an impediment and a bad habit to watch out for. It can introduce 'grasping' into your meditation. So you'd probably be best advised to stay with the prescription for the practice.
Cheers,
-David
quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Btw can you manage to stick with the alotted time for samyama? I find it hard to fit in because it is so pleasant just to hang there I don't move on to the next sutras on time.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Sep 02 2005 11:03:35 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2005 : 11:21:33 AM
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I don't think there is anything wrong with noticing experiences during practice. I think wanting to repeat them is where we get into trouble and I am sure we have all been guilty of this.
I think looking for them introduces grasping as David points out and could also block the next interesting unknown experience from occuring. Like Yogani points out there is nothing wrong with looking out the window as we drive by. I think the idea is to avoid stopping the car and/or getting out which would lengthen or stop the journey entirely (especially if we get lost!).
In regards to samyama, I treat the 15 second per sutra as a guideline. Sometimes I float along and get lost with a sutra, when I come back, I just move on to the next one. I don't fret to much about it one way or another. If I spend extra time, I just make sure I don't feel any of the imbalances (after practices), that can manifest from over-doing things.
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2005 : 11:31:12 AM
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| Thanks for the comments everyone! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2005 : 3:59:28 PM
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Lili,
As I sat down to meditate myself yesterday, something popped into my mind about *your* experience of spontaneously inhaling through your ajna. (See, someone cares about you -- AYP is a great place.).
I don't know why I did not think of it straight off, but if you have not seen it already, I thought you may want to take a look at the AYP 'heart breathing' technique discussed here:
http://www.aypsite.org/220.html
This involves inhaling through the ajna deliberately, and into the heart.
Cheers,
-David
quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Thanks for the comments everyone!
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Sep 05 2005 : 09:23:34 AM
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Hihi 
Thanks a lot for the link. This looks really cool for the future when/if I manage to improve pranayama.
quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Lili,
As I sat down to meditate myself yesterday, something popped into my mind about *your* experience of spontaneously inhaling through your ajna. (See, someone cares about you -- AYP is a great place.).
I don't know why I did not think of it straight off, but if you have not seen it already, I thought you may want to take a look at the AYP 'heart breathing' technique discussed here:
http://www.aypsite.org/220.html
This involves inhaling through the ajna deliberately, and into the heart.
Cheers,
-David
quote:
Originally posted by Lili
Thanks for the comments everyone!
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 14 2005 : 9:53:37 PM
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I could have easily placed this post in the "Self-Pacing" forum where it would have been a natural fit, but since it was the result of pranayama and my experimentation with it, I wanted to post it here as a warning.
I mentioned earlier in this thread how the addition of visualizing "white light" flowing up and down the Sushumna along with the awareness and breath as outlined by Yogani, helped lead to a dramatic increase in energy for me during pranayama.
Well, as I am often prone to do, I had to take it a little further. I seem to like to find out where the line is in life and usually by crossing it. So that said, as I was enjoying the new pranayama experiences, at the end of it and before beginning meditation, I decided to visualize bright white light emanating in every cell throughout my body and mind. Well it worked well enough except for experiencing 2 full days of "prana burn" for overdoing it. The closest analogy I can think of to describe it would be like having a sunburn on the inside of your body.
Anyway, no panic or anything, just the initial worry that I was going to have to skip a practice session in order to "turn off the heat"! I haven't missed one in 8 months, so didn't want to start then. Following the advice posted throughout the AYP lessons by Yogani, I reduced the time of pranayama, meditation and samyama by 50% and dropped most of the extra mudras and just went with basic spinal breathing (with definitely no visualization!). It was a quicker recovery than I expected and after a day or so of this, things returned to normal. Over the next few days, I slowly started adding back the various mudras I had cut out of my practice routine during the recovery period.
Anyway, I just wanted to share this experience because a- I didn't want to contribute to overdoing it for anyone with my bright ideas and b- to show people how easy it is to over-do things if we are not careful.
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Sep 15 2005 : 09:15:41 AM
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Thanks for sharing that experience Anthem. Sounds like taking a shortcut through the briar patch may have some drawbacks! Glad to hear that it passed by quickly. Honestly though, I think that in time you may notice that you burned off some of the dross in your nervous system and you'll come out ahead once things smooth out completely.
I, like you, tend to also try and find the line in the sand and unfortunately I tend to cross over it from time to time. But hey, that's how we find out what we are capable of so long as we don't push ourselves too far.
With Peace and Respect,
Paul |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2008 : 10:31:18 AM
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It wasn’t my intention when searching for this thread, but wow, fun to look back at these "old" posts and see how much perspective and awareness has changed since then.
From reading this thread, I can safely say that my experiences with pranayama and the expansion of inner energies have been way less dramatic then indicated here and more back and forth or up and down than it sounds from the way I posted back in 2005.
Some days I have had lots of energies and strong awareness of the spinal nerve and other days less awareness of energy and parts of the spinal nerve have definitely been difficult to perceive. These cycles can come and go over weeks and months, but the biggest difference now is, I don't mind what they do, it doesn't matter.
Overall, looking back to 2005, I can say that the energies use to be more diffused and occurred everywhere in the body in a random and more dramatic fashion. If this intensity diminished, I worried it would go away, and I typically looked for ways to amplify it again which usually got me into trouble in terms of going over and then subsequently needing to self-pace.
After the initial inner-energy awakening which was very intense for me, especially for the first 4 months or so, things have quieted down significantly. Overall, energy has it's own inherent intelligence, and operates quietly in the background for the most part with a gentle ecstatic feeling throughout the body which comes and goes for random periods of time outside of practices. The time that it comes outside of practices if plotted on a graph would be ever increasing but with many ups and downs along the way. Giving up chasing these energy experiences was the best thing I could have done.
Energy seems more focussed in the spinal nerve and when it is, the energy centers in the front of the body respond in kind. It seems to move in a more orderly fashion now. The energy centers in the feet and palms were the latest to come into awareness outside of practices. Thanks to guidance from Yogani’s posts, I go to Samhavi and no longer the crown whenever waves of ecstasy are experienced outside of practices. Going to the crown during ecstatic waves, gave me an unstable practice experiences for several months last summer and early fall 2007. Live and learn!
I think the biggest change in the energy dynamics from 2005, is the expansion of tantra. This occurs completely by itself as the desire to not ejaculate surpasses the desire to ejaculate. So when practicing tantra, either alone or with a partner, not ejaculating has lead to the biggest expansion of the inner energies outside of practices for me. I think this expansion outside of practices would have occurred anyway, but I just feel that tantra has been an accelerator for me.
I am definitely what would be called a left-handed yogi, and have found tantra practices to be a wonderful boon to the rest of my sitting practice routine. It is important to point out that it was an up and down process with tantra practices as well, and there have certainly been rough periods that fortunately smooth out over time. I agree whole-heartedly with Yogani, though I saw it differently before, that there is energy loss from ejaculatory orgasm, which we can all agree, but there is a slight loss from non-ejaculatory orgasms as well. From my experience, there is an amplification in energy if there is tantra without orgasm. Luckily, pre-orgasmic feelings become fulfilling on their own.
This is becoming a long post, but now that I have finished reflecting, I have to report that I have played with visualizing an intense white light in the spinal nerve again as the inner light I see is random and more diffused. I started doing this a few months back primarily because I was doing such a short 3 minute spinal breathing routine that I thought it might be a good idea since realizing how easy it is to move energy around the body and how powerful that can be as it manifests physically. As probably could have been predicted by others, the effects were similar to 2005 in that it lead me to be over, just in a very different and subtle way. This time I did it for about 2 months before I started to notice that dormant thought patterns seemed to be a little "louder" than normal, and that I was reacting to them more than I had been. All it took was dropping this little enhancement to feel the inner peace and emotional stability return within a day. That said, the last 4 months have been my most stable sustained period of practice since I started AYP 3 years back. Yes, I have slow pattern recognition when it comes to self-pacing!
The wonderful realization that occurred from this little experiment has been that once we really, really want to wake up, to end suffering with our whole being and no longer ride the roller-coaster ride of duality, life/ the universe responds in kind. We are moving in that direction as quickly as is possible for us given the type and amount of purification we can handle. Thought patterns of the past which have caused us so much pain and suffering need to die out and this takes time. As we become infused with more inner light, it amplifies everything on the inside. So if there are any old thought patterns that have not dropped away completely, they can become "re-animated" by the inner energies if we take on too much too quickly.
Moral of the story? If we have the intent, we practice twice daily and inquire within, we will clear ourselves out as quickly as we can handle despite our meddling minds and all the good ideas we "think" will help us along. We don’t need to help things along once we have established our daily routine, if anything our extra efforts will just slow us down. We are taken care of in ways that are hard to comprehend, suffice to say we are in good hands.
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n/a
26 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2012 : 09:32:35 AM
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| Thank you, Anthem. That is a very thoughtful and helpful post. |
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albechan
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2018 : 01:53:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem
I was the opposite of Victor in that meditation for me was the more natural of practices and pranayama was the less intuitive.
Back when I started, I had very little sensation in my spine. In fact, things felt more noticable in my front.
Thank you so much for your sharing: that's exactly what I'm going through at the moment. Although I just started AYP practices very recently, the results so far have been amazing.
Nevertheless, I was wondering why during SB I felt very strong sensations at the front (something like a magnetic field feeling) and much less at the muladhara even though my pelvic floor often starts to throb automatically in a very energetic way.
It's great to be able to retrieve so much subtle information: it literally paves the way.
I'll keep practicing with even more faith that what I'm going through belongs to the right path.
Thank you!
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2018 : 4:22:19 PM
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Hello again albechan
Good to hear you are getting on well with the AYP meditation. Since you've been instinctively practising kechari, perhaps you are more a yogi at heart than a zen buddhist? Of course we all end up in the same place eventually.
quote:
Originally posted by albechan
Nevertheless, I was wondering why during SB I felt very strong sensations at the front (something like a magnetic field feeling) and much less at the muladhara even though my pelvic floor often starts to throb automatically in a very energetic way.
That is not unusual. The energy channel we are travelling along in SPB will expand to encompass front and back. Different people will have more awareness of different sides or segments of it to start with. It sounds like you're doing just fine.
Enjoy  |
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pranayama thoughts
