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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 7:42:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by newpov
Fellows, when will you tire of discussing definitions and categories.....
Oh, they're just letting the air out of their tires.  Remember the title of this thread: stillnesssssssssss versussssssssss blisssssssssssssssssss .........  |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 8:08:35 PM
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CarsonZi wrote: quote:
The platitudes that could be considered by some to be absolute truths have to be so general and so vague that they are useless in debating anyways
This is the exact point I was trying to make! That absolute truths are very simple, and only when you add more words and make them complicated are they not absolute truths. And yes, this is what is done in debating.
Layers of abstract concepts are created that are based upon known qualities so the illusion of solidity can be created.
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But about the enlightenment subject, I believe that the reason there is so much misunderstanding and confusion on the subject (everywhere; not just us) is that enlightenment is not really an end in itself, but rather like a tool.
I think it is something that one doesn't necessarily excel at by itself, but instead we use to expand our life's purpose to the next level.
In other words, instead of your title being "enlightened person", it should be "enlightened artist", or "enlightened athlete" or "enlightened author".
It is more of an accelerated means to an end, than an end in itself.
Since people recently are getting so much better at becoming enlightened, we mistakenly deify them.
We're like a caveman with an Ipod. People around him don't understand it's about music; they think he's a god.
So what i'm saying is enlightenment is something to enhance your life and you can apply it to whatever you are already good at doing to make the world a better place. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2008 : 10:28:46 PM
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Niccccccccccccce |
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mufad
44 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 04:46:00 AM
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Hi,
Could it be that rather than getting something (Ipod/Life enhancer) enlightenment is loosig and letting go of everything you thought you had ?
Could there be enlightenment without bliss ?
What has spontaneous laughter got to do with it ? If nothing, then what is the state seen in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4PZL7wg_g4 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqOwPteS_Xg ?
Thank You,
Mufad.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 07:03:16 AM
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| Yes Mufad, exactly. It gives the illusion of getting something because what we are letting go of was interfering with our life and the perfection that is already there. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 07:21:16 AM
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The spontaneous laughter is common when realizations or awakenings occur, small or big, deep and profound or just a tiny one. "The Buddha laugh"... Buddha laughed a lot at the gigantic joke of Life and Death and existence - all statues are showing Buddhas smiling or laughing. When it becomes obvious how much we have suffered for absolutely no reason but a big misunderstanding and a long confusion, we are bound to laugh at our own sillyness. It just bubbles up from the depths. The universe salutes the recalling of knowings of how it actually is and we tend to involuntarily laugh along with the universe. Separation, problems, anger, the hurting... how utterly silly we have behaved! For no reason but a misidentification with thoughts! It's a hilarious joke!
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 08:50:09 AM
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Hi Mufad,
Like emc said, the spontaneous laughter or it could be spontaneous uncontrolled tears... or any other form of bodily reaction, happens during an opening/a realization. Is this enlightenment? I personally don't think so. It is a glimpse into the vastness of nothing.. a glimpse into how you are not your mind/ego. How your entire world that has this huge grip on you, is just a figment of your imagination (mind). It changes you from within and you become a believer.. you get a taste of the freedom from the mind. But in most cases sooner or later the mind jumps in and tries to grab and own this freedom, to posses the freedom.. it analyses the situation and tries to figure out how it can hold on to this forever and how it can duplicate it.. and how it can control it.
The thing is, is there any interview with those two people on the video to show how they have been since? Have they lived in that space of silence since that opening? I personally think, you are enlightened when you can live in this space everyday, 24/7. Maybe I am wrong. I would really like to ask the people who are enlightened.. Tolle, Byron Katie, Adya, Nandhi, Yogani.. anyone at the forum who are enlightened.. that after that first realization that they were not their mind.. did they stay in that space of peace and silence since.. where there were no mind vacillations or was it a process after that, where they still got pulled into mind at times.. but knew that they were not their mind so the suffering intensity and period was less and less till it was not there anymore.. or did they just wake up realized and stayed in that place forever?
Many at the forum have had many realizations like this.. and some may even be enlightened and living in a space of bliss and awareness 24/7 (actually as per the masters we all are.. we just don't know it.. our enlightenment is masked by the mind). So if you ask me, you could go to a guru to get this as an instant experience, or consume certain drugs to experience this, or you could follow AYP for a few years to experience this on your own. All spiritual paths will lead you to this place.
Do you know about samyama? If not, do you know how to ask in silence and let go? Drop all the judgments you have about your guru. Drop all the questions you are trying to figure out with your mind. In silence ask the questions and let go. You will get an answer. Even if your mind thinks it is not a good answer and it wants proof.. trust your intuition, your inner guru. You cannot get the answer with logic, with your mind.. even if something the mind says right now seems satisfying for now.. new questions will arise.. As long as you are your mind, the doubts will never go.
So if you decide to stay with her.. trust. It is hard to see this with the mind.. but it is not the form of the guru that will help.. it is how much you are ready to surrender to the guru. The whole guru tradition works on trust and surrender. You don't have to surrender to a guru, you can surrender to a stone or a can of coke.. but it has to be total surrender... total trust that this form (that you are surrendering to).. your ishta.. will take you all the way.
I agree with what Scott said in his reply..
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
So I say if you are finding this to be true about her, just move on to the next teacher/teaching. Because it is showing that you won't get on well with her. But if it seems like a good path to you, then dive into it fully because I think it will take you all the way.
Don't waste too much time and energy trying to figure things out and find proof and/or go searching externally if some other human (enlightened or not) is worth your trust. Move inwards and use that energy toward your journey.
Wish you all the best. |
Edited by - Shanti on Sep 25 2008 12:29:42 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 11:24:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Maybe I am wrong. I would really like to ask the people who are enlightened.. Tolle, Byron Katie, Adya, Nandhi, Yogani.. anyone at the forum who are enlightened.. that after that first realization that they were not their mind.. did they stay in that space of peace and silence since.. where there were no mind vacillations or was it a process after that, where they still got pulled into mind at times.. but knew that they were not their mind so the suffering intensity and period was less and less till it was not there anymore.. or did they just wake up realized and stayed in that place forever?
Psst... if you haven't read Adyashanti's "Emptiness dancing" I would strongly recommend it - it describes that fluctuating phase of first deep awakenings! I made a review of it here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3132
Love, emc
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 12:24:35 PM
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Thanks emc,
Will read the book.
Loved the quotes you did quote in that thread. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 2:49:57 PM
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Hi Shweta,
I agree with you, 24/7 is the measure, until that time there's still lot's of work to be done. In my experience, the glimpses come and go, with some lingerings of those glimpses pervading more and more of the time. For me it started with knowing myself as nothingness, starting a couple of years back (not from a unity perspective unfortunately), and that awareness came and went many times until one period of extended time where it was there for several days uninterrupted. This "went away" and then "came back" where now it's always accessible or recognized again with a quick inquiry.
I guess we've all read about those whose sense of oneness comes simultaneously at the point of realizing themselves as nothingness, but I've only had glimpses (from many different angles) of the oneness of it all, but not lasting yet. I've also noticed that there are those who claim to know themselves as nothingness being oneness 24/7, I am not certain they have this sense 24/7 or are more remembering the experience they had of it . If it were the case that it was more a remembering rather than a continuous recognition, then it would explain the many gurus and spiritual teachers who claim to be enlightened but still clearly have karma or blockages that are being cleared or worked out. This is really just some just speculation at this point though.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Sep 25 2008 : 7:12:08 PM
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What I like about my path is that is doesn't depend on anything or anyone outside myself. When I stray from the path, it's me doing it, and when I return it's my decision. I instinctively know there are certain things i need to do to be on the path, and sometimes I don't follow them, and other times I return.
It doesn't depend on any guru or special event; it's always available when I decide.
Accounts I have read of the "masters", like Jesus and Yogananda said they strayed too sometimes. I think what makes me different from them is not that they have achieved something I haven't, but that their vocation was to help others become enlightened and mine is not. |
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stillness vs bliss
