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x.j.
304 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 08 2008 : 3:29:57 PM
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This week, I read "Sivananda Buried Yoga" by Manmoyanand. This is an interesting book.
The book is an autobiography of an Indian fellow, whose guru finds him, and then he goes to live with the teacher high in the Himalayas. He describes his life in a traditional spiritual community, and his teachers instructions as he goes along. He starts out being a skeptic and is gradually won over to being a good student and then excels and ultimately gains "siddhis." He is critical of the west's idea of yoga, as being just about asanas and exercise.
He discusses the principles of yoga in general terms, including diet, fasting, commitment, pranayama, asanas, and other yoga practices. This is not a how-to, practical book.
I had a feeling that this story was just too good to be true, because it was so amazing, and his teacher confers on him the powers of siddhis after he learns to fast in a cave without food or water for 65 days straight. He gets to know the past. He becomes one of the two lineage holders when his teacher takes mahasamadhi, but what lineage exactly is not mentioned. There are details that go blurry.
In any event, it is a good discussion of Patanjali's instructions and intriguing as to the authors claims of mystical transformation. It is traditional in it's call for a teacher who will find you when the time is right(one does not find the teacher, they find us), and runs contrary to the AYP idea of not needing an external teacher. We'll never know if we could have gone farther with a real external teacher, but we have no other option anyway, since the teacher has to find us. Maybe his book is partly fiction, maybe it's completely literally a true story. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has read this book for their opinion whether this yogi is the real deal. I know he gives retreats here and there. I don't doubt that this degree of transformation can occur to a human being, and it may all be a totally true life story. I just don't know. I would very much appreciate hearing from anyone who can confirm if this Manmoyanand is totally the real deal or not. Please have your library get you a look at this book on inter library loan and drop me a note as to what you decide about whether this guy is genuine.
This is just such an amazing story that it sounds out of this world that you and I live in, with traffic jams, and income taxes and medical insurance and fast food restaurants and newspapers full of grizzly reports about wars half way around the world paid with our income taxes. You know? |
Edited by - x.j. on Apr 12 2008 10:14:22 PM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2008 : 4:14:38 PM
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Hi John!
You might find this thread interesting:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2660
I had the same wonderings as you about his aggressiveness. Somehow I felt he was missing something that Yogani has taught me: A sound relation to his guru! He is trusting his outer guru more than his inner, being in a deep dependency. Yogani's wise words that has stuck in me is: A true teacher always teaches independency. Also, his path seems to add frustration to his life in that sense that he has been given a duty to find a disciple of his own who is willing to go the long hard way he has done - otherwise he cannot enter the last stage of samadhi... That sounds very strange and I guess that's why his aggression towards the "non-serious" yoga practitioners are increasing! Tough situation for him!
No doubt has he got many deep insights of yoga, but he lacks in trustworthyness. I left his seminar because I didn't feel trust in his way of acting. |
Edited by - emc on Apr 08 2008 4:16:09 PM |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2008 : 5:36:42 PM
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hey EMC
tell me what the program was like, what techniques he had you doing, specifically what pranayama and any mudras he had you folks doing, how long you attended, how many were there. did he seem to communicate well? was he kind? was he "charismatic" like your experiences with other teachers who I remember you sat with? was it expensive? was it informative? do you think his book is (partly) fictional? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2008 : 04:17:16 AM
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John, I'm sorry I can't answer your questions. I only attended a single lecture he held here in Stockholm. I saw him for perhaps 2 hours and I didn't cry when he spoke, so I left. I am sure he is a genuine yogi with lots of awareness, knowledge and skills. I just couldn't take his attitude and left.
/emc |
Edited by - emc on Apr 09 2008 04:18:31 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2008 : 1:03:43 PM
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because of the author's claim to the classic siddhis and astounding yogic accomplishments
If someone makes claims to astounding yogic accomplishments, I take them less seriously, not more. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's it in a nutshell.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 09 2008 : 10:47:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
If someone makes claims to astounding yogic accomplishments, I take them less seriously, not more. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's it in a nutshell.
Peacefulness and happiness are the highest siddhis (I'm absolutely dead serious about that). And I claim both. Hope I didn't just lose all cred with you, David...
Anyone working on, much less boasting about, something as pointless as, say, levitation, can't possibly know what peace is. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's it in a nutshell!  |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 09 2008 10:48:55 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2008 : 11:56:35 AM
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quote:
Peacefulness and happiness are the highest siddhis (I'm absolutely dead serious about that). And I claim both
Amen to that Jim |
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lorf
48 Posts |
Posted - Apr 18 2008 : 4:14:24 PM
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There are a lot of teachers out there. They all hold keys that work for some but not for others, and most of them have their weaknesses and personalities.
I spent two weeks with Manmoyanand and I feel I want to honor him. This is why:
I used to be very much in the head, looking for answers and understanding. For years and years. I had questions and questions. When I met him we spent much time together and he could answer everything I asked, everything. No matter if we were talking about the divine or "under the hood". No one I met, not before not after has been able to explain with such clarity on every level.
Now, the funny thing is that when I came home I had no more questions. The urge to understand was gone and instead I could clearly see that all that knowledge was never necessary. He knew that but spent the time explaining anyway, probably because he knew it had to be that way. What I want to say is that Manmoyanand did the job, he could meet me on a mental level where I was. He really did the job no other had been able to do. I have not seen him since.
It seems like all these great teachers all have their personality and limitations. Why not let them? They all have something valuable to give.
Manmoyanand bridges logic, science and spirituality, that is his gift to those who want/need to receive it. |
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zatsuon
Sweden
2 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2008 : 08:33:13 AM
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It would probably be hepful if people read the book in question before jumping to conclusions about the teacher discussed. There is no boasting going on in "Sivananda Buried Yoga", just a factual account of the learning process and it's results.
So is he making it up?
I have hade the opportunity to listen to Manmoyanand once, and I really don't see him as a fraud. To me his "aggressiveness" seems to fuel a rightful cause in the light of the situation of the dying lineages of yogis in India.
I know there is this image of the guru being this benign and happy figure, but that is simply not the whole picture. Love and spiritual power can express itself in many different ways.
Also, if there is anything that Manmoyanand does in his book it is precisely to teach independency. Only after endelessly scrutinizing all spiritual leaders in his seekings, finally even renouncing all spiritual endeavors, does he succumb to the overwhelming wisdom and love of his guru. He has a strong interest in western science and endeavors very seriously to put yoga into such a framework.
Regarding siddhi, he claims that they exist and are scientifically explainable. That's all. Actually he only sees them being performed by others in the book, though obviously you can judge from the context he should now be capable of the same things.
Well, as you can tell I was very impressed with this book. I will attend a retreat soon to learn more from him and perhaps be able to state a more informed opinion later on. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2008 : 09:55:04 AM
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Hi zatsuon and welcome to the forum!
It sounds great that you will attend a retreat with him. Hopefully you can come back and give us more info on your experiences with him.
I didn't react on the aggressiveness per se. I also know spiritual teachers may express whatever feelings and behaviours. It was more his obvious hang-up around western yoga, and his constant pointing out of how discontent he was with his current situation that made me wonder about him. I have never met a spiritual realized teacher complaining about the current situation. I just picture Byron Katie would smile at him and ask "Is it really true that you can't proceed on your spiritual path if you don't find a disciple"?
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zatsuon
Sweden
2 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2008 : 04:54:37 AM
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quote:
I just picture Byron Katie would smile at him and ask "Is it really true that you can't proceed on your spiritual path if you don't find a disciple"?
Hmm, this sounds like the old clash between western idividualistic culture and eastern collectivistic culture (to use an old cliche, but whatever). In the old hindu tradition it would make a hell of a lot of sense to obey whatever your teacher tells to after taking you all the way to the top, whereas an American self help-author would undoubtedly focus on individual freedom at all costs.
I guess we all just have to work with what we really believe in, from our particular vantage points.
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hajwing
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 1:02:12 PM
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| I have just finished reading Sivananda Buried Yoga. I feel really confused as I have just started doing yoga with the sivananda centre and was really enjoying it. However, in the book it says that doing the asanas continously is bad for the mind. Is this true? I don't want to lead the sort of life described in the book. Does this mean there is no point in continuing my practice with the sivananda centre? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Dec 26 2008 : 4:17:57 PM
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Hajwing, Sivananda center is solid. I can't say the same for what has been presented to me as the thesis of this book---or for what the title of the book says in itself.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Dec 26 2008 5:02:31 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Dec 28 2008 : 11:46:03 PM
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Hajwing wrote:
" in the book it says that doing the asanas continously is bad for the mind. Is this true? I don't want to lead the sort of life described in the book. Does this mean there is no point in continuing my practice with the sivananda centre?"
This kind of statement cannot be true as it is too general. General statements like this can only be true some of the time, for some people. Obviously nobody can do asanas 'continuously', and being bad for the mind is meaningless because yoga aims to quiet the mind, not make changes to it.
And quieting the mind makes it healthier than ever.
I think doing only asanas and nothing else in yoga may cause slow spiritual progress because meditation is also needed. but there is no harm in asanas done with proper guidance.
Leading a life apart from society high in the mountains is a classic scenario that appeals to fiction readers and people who can't cope with society. The vast majority of us could never lead an ascetic life like that. we just dream of it because we don't like the jangle of modern society.
The good news is we can carry on our normal lives and still step outside the noise and stress by practicing meditation as taught in the main lessons here. It's amazing how peaceful we are inside when we do twice daily meditation.
The author is correct about a guru finding you if that is your path. Tha guru inside yourself will lead you to it if it is right. But more often, your inner guru will lead you to many teachings without having to find an external guru.
You don't have to search for some external event to speed you on your path. Go to whatever events you wish, but still continue your twice daily meditations, and soon you will know you are on the right path, and not need to search for anything. Exactly what you need will come to you. That is the best "siddhi" ever. |
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Sivananda Buried Yoga
