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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 5:07:22 PM
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Hi everyone.
I've been following the AYP instructions in my practice faithfully, except for one thing.
Right from the beggining about 13 months ago, I've been doing spinal breathing with a short kumbhaka (with my head dropped to the chest) on inhale. This was automatic, because I had not read anything about pranayama and kumbhakas before AYP. I simply found out that it stimulated the energy very nicely so I just did it.
I know it's been said that doing a practice differently might change the dynamics of it etc. However, I just want to report that in my case there haven't been any problems so far, the practice is stable (with many additions along the way), everything's going pretty smoothly and I'm probably going to stick to it.
Apart from that I'd welcome any comments (from your experience or not) on what this could be causing, what could be different from the standard ayp way and if anyone's doing the same thing.
Btw. this could probably also go under the "other systems category". |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 6:32:18 PM
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Hi Tadeas,
We are on the same track! I also put in this pause spontaneously a few years ago. This was brought up in a topic a short while back, and here is my contribution:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=2048#30290
Yogani also comments further on in the thread what potential difficulties could arise and why he didn't include it as part of the procedure for spinal breathing.
I still love it though.  Actually, I have had very little joy with the AYP forms of kumbaka, but I find a lot of benefits coming from this short retention in SBP. I find it more useful to add the retention after both inhale and exhale as this gives a more balanced effect than after inhale only.
Christi |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 7:38:33 PM
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Good to hear that, I love it, too :)
How long do you keep the retention after exhale? I also have a tendency to put it in there, but more like Victor describes it in the thread you mentioned.
On the contrary, I'm having much joy with the AYP kumbhakas... just added the chin pump in the last few sitting and it feels terrific! :)
Anyway, I wonder how much the retentions could have added to my pretty quickly evolving ecstatic conductivity. Time and other practitioners will tell, I guess :)
Thx and enjoy :) |
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emc
2072 Posts |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2008 : 06:15:50 AM
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Hi emc,
quote:
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Excuse me, but are you discussing the same thing or another thing as in this parallell topic?
Breath suspension in pranayama
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3678
I guess it depends what is meant by "spontaneously".  Personally I "spontaneously" felt drawn to put a slight breath retention in to spinal breathing, but you could say that I continued to add it unspontaneously. I wouldn't have thought of it on my own, so the initial action must have been spontaneous.
In the main lessons, and here in the forum, Yogani makes it clear that only spontaneous kumbaka is part of the procedure for SBP (not the deliberate thing that is being discussed in this thread).
Hope that helps
Christi |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2008 : 6:34:53 PM
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An update on a further modification of spinal breathing with kumbhakas on inhale.
I've integrated yoni mudra into spinal breathing as described here: http://www.aypsite.org/288.html - which in my case also means that I do a short (5-10sec) yoni mudra kumbhaka after every inhale.
I've been doing this modified version for the past 2-3 months (including retreat setting) and it's been stable so far. It is a pretty powerful combination, so appropriate capacity is required :))
This is just a record for those who would like to explore this. |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2013 : 9:07:59 PM
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The last post here was back from 2008, and I figured replying on topic here instead of a new post would keep it all more organized.
Wanted to add my experience as of late with deliberate short pauses (kumbhakas) during pranayama, that although is not part of AYP, has also grown on me. This isn't from an energetic view since I'm still a beginner when it comes to insight into my inner processes or energy sensations, but more in the sense of a personal necessity in terms of smoothness, effort, motivation, and even enjoyment (keeping the warnings about following scenery or effects in mind).
I am also not writing to promote or compare it to the baseline practices which are clear enough and straightforward to understand and apply from the lessons, but contributing my experience after searching the forums and AYP books on the subject as it seems to apply to me so far (the bit about unique matrix of obstructions, ripeness..).
The following report leads up to this topic and ties together in the end, just have no way of condensing it any more:
Maybe this is a case of an automatic yoga (I've never had any) creeping up to become a habit, or my memory of different yoga practices blending in with AYP when taking up static Jalandhara, but I've been accidentally doing Maha Bandha/Traya Bandha during Pranayama for 7 months now, which is excessive and not just by AYP standards, though luckily no adverse symptoms or effects up to this point where I recognize it doesn't belong there. I was aware of this all along too (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....11723#101358) yet simply didn't pause for a second look until now while re-examining the forum and lessons on pauses in pranayama.
The suble Uddiyana aspect during Pranayama I think is fine, since it does in a sense co-occur as a result of Mulabandha/Asvini, and when regarded as a hybrid practice (http://www.aypsite.org/288.html), although there are warnings of double-up effect with the Yoni Mudra Kumbhaka that I do separately afterwards.
Asvini does not have a direct "cookbook approach" to use (http://www.aypsite.org/119.html) so my variation happens to include it at the end of inhale and exhale, and relaxed in-between.
Somewhere along the way though, it became apparent that in order to do the energy practices that go with Pranayama and its enhancements (sambhavi, asvini, brahmari, etc.) in a way that wasn't abrupt or rushed, a natural pause would emerge.
I tried a few times to return to the slow gentle full yogic breath, and excuse the pauses as simply extensions of a prolongued inhale-exhale/exhale-inhale transition, but there's no denying it is a pause that counts as breath retention (varying 5-10 seconds, as Tadeas mentioned above). Exaggerating it deliberately would just end up shortening the next practice, YMK, by making it less comfortable to do for the same perceived duration. I've tried the opposite, have no pauses, but that only makes my mind cling excessively to the breath and the tracing to the point of feeling rushed and tired.
Even the mantra during DM has its natural pace, with gaps in-between, so 'easily favoring the mantra during DM or breath during SBP' I can't say is the same even if I understand the reasoning behind it (purification, samadhi, less is more, blending hot and cool, an easier handle on self-pacing). To me, those natural pauses in SBP are essential at this point, and have been from the start.
To explain further, I naturally tune out more often from SBP with pauses at both ends, which has an energizing effect to the mind, and sensation-wise from mudras and bandhas. Without them, my intention or mind reacts too strongly in trying to 'easily favor' the SBP but not cling to it to the point of making me feel short of breath. This isn't from my inexperience with learning the subtleties of breath, movement, meditation, 'spirit' (energy coherence), stillness in action, etc., which I've practiced for a good few years prior to AYP.
Sure it can be said that tuning out (at this point, into daydreams or thoughts) facilitated by pauses may make the SBP resemble the 'rattling' as in DM (http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....page=2#84483), but I follow the procedure just as well, so I see the end result the same even if the means differ. To me, one feels excessively clingy, the other well balanced from all angles (deliberate effort, losing the practice and easily returning when possible, and energetic effects). The only real risk is from doubling up Kumbhaka and Uddiyana, though YMK does address it at least partially on its own as mentioned earlier. This post explains the points on self-pacing and kumbhaka http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=2048#30296
I'm not sure if it's a matter of trying harder to re-shape the habit of the baseline pranayama (no pauses), but this modification grew on me naturally, and don't see a reason to struggle against. No delayed effects this far, and certainly doesn't sound like it's less efficient from what Christi shares above.
This advice also goes well with pauses: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=8051#70539
Glad to see that extra kumbhaka is tolerated, in the sense of not wandering too far away from the safe harbour of AYP: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=4130#35385 |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Apr 10 2013 : 11:35:20 AM
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Hi Aum,
The baseline spinal breathing practice does not include pauses after inhalation and after exhalation, but it does not deny them either. Yogani has often said that the breath will begin to suspend naturally during SBP. That has been the experience here too.
In fact that is one of the reasons why we go up on inhale and down on exhale so that breath retention with the vase full happens at the ajna chakra.
So when breath retention happens as an automatic yoga it is not a deviation from AYP baseline practice and there is no need to try and stop it from happening, if that is what you are tempted to try and do.
Christi
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Apr 12 2013 : 6:19:49 PM
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| That does make sense to consider the breath retentions as an automatic yoga. The state of being during any given sitting does seem to determines the presence and length of retentions more than attempts to direct them deliberately. Thanks Christi. |
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kumbhaka in spinal breathing
