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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 05 2008 : 5:33:40 PM
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Hi,
for the last three months, I have had a rash on the inside of each arm, right at the elbow joint, not in the center but 3/4 up. The shape of the rash is almost round and about 1 1/2 inches in diameter. The rash is the same on both arms! Most of the time the patches look like reddish-pink circles with a hint of white dried skin on them. The patches seem to come and go, some days they are more pronounced, other days they almost disappear. They do not itch or bother me at all, except that I notice them.
I noticed that sometimes, when the waves of tingles come down my arms, the biceps area (upper arms) really tingle but the lower arms don't. Do you think the waves are coming out of the minor chakras located there on the inside of my elbow joints and causing this rash?
What is kundalini rash? Do you think I have kundalini rash?
Thank you 
TI |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 12:05:05 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 12:27:28 AM
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| could be fungal, allergic or eczema. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 07:34:51 AM
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Tibetan Ice,
I'll just state what I notice now: You have lately written about many spectacular experiences, which involve very much high frequent energies. At the same time you are now reporting on lots of ringing in the ears and rashes.
My interpretation:
Those are clear signs of energy overload, see for example this topic
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2884
and if I were you I'd seriously consider if there might be time for some self-pacing - grounding. The kundalini energy has a sleeping effect... It builds up over time and then suddenly can hit with great force, causing great inconvenience and strange uncomfortable symptoms. When you start to get the symptoms it's definitely time to cut back on practices that stimulate energies.
Please, check these links out if you haven't already!
Kundalini excess symptoms: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2146
Grounding: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2165
Self-pacing: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2139
Personally, I'm always on the verge of overdoing, and have to self-pace a lot. Ringing in the ears and rashes are among my first symptoms and what may come after... Phew... I'd rather not tell about!
This is just my interpretation from what I recognize in your posts. You will discover yourself whether it's relevant for you or not. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 09:16:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Those are among my first symptoms and what may come after... Phew... I'd rather not tell about!
emc, why not tell?
I've actually come to sort of rely on my bit of kundalini rash (nowhere near as widespread as Tibetan_Ice's). When it activates and gets itchy, I know I need to scale back my practice. When it spreads, I know I have to REALLY scale back my practice. And I know from experience that it's extremely difficult to reduce the rash. It's like a ratchet wrench. And doctors don't have the vaguest notion what to do (my star dermatologist scratched his head and prescribed both cortisone AND anti-fungal, and neither worked).
The symptoms themselves may not seem so terrible. Yet. But yoga works in fits and starts. And if you don't leave yourself some headroom, then you could go well past the pain point when a chunk of further opening occurs, radically increasing your energy flow. As emc said, as Yogani says frequently, and as your fellow forumites all repeat endlessly: self pacing is absolutely critical. It's best not to go all the way to agony before accepting the truth of it. |
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 10:02:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Tibetan Ice,
I'll just state what I notice now: You have lately written about many spectacular experiences, which involve very much high frequent energies. At the same time you are now reporting on lots of ringing in the ears and rashes.
My interpretation:
Those are clear signs of energy overload, see for example this topic
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2884
and if I were you I'd seriously consider if there might be time for some self-pacing - grounding. The kundalini energy has a sleeping effect... It builds up over time and then suddenly can hit with great force, causing great inconvenience and strange uncomfortable symptoms. When you start to get the symptoms it's definitely time to cut back on practices that stimulate energies.
Please, check these links out if you haven't already!
Kundalini excess symptoms: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2146
Grounding: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2165
Self-pacing: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2139
Personally, I'm always on the verge of overdoing, and have to self-pace a lot. Ringing in the ears and rashes are among my first symptoms and what may come after... Phew... I'd rather not tell about!
This is just my interpretation from what I recognize in your posts. You will discover yourself whether it's relevant for you or not.
Hi EMC:
Good observations and list of references. Thanks!
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Hi TI:
Don't forget this one, posted to you a week or so ago: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3466#30457
From there:
"...A premature crown opening and a premature kundalini awakening are essentially the same thing, so to court one is to court the other. In the case of intensive crown practices, there can be delayed reactions that can take a long time to unwind while the rest of the nervous system catches up. Self-pacing in real time with crown practices is difficult, because of the long delays between cause and effect that can occur.
This is why intense crown practices are not recommended in AYP, certainly not in the beginning. Sooner or later that will lead to trouble if not preceded and balanced with other practices providing for whole body purification and opening.
So, while you may be having a good time with the crown now without a full blown kundalini awaking in play, you will not likely be having a good time further down the road, unless you are attending to the rest of your neurobiology."
This also applies to your recent post on ringing, heat, voices, etc. over here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3554
Balance and self-pacing in practices and daily living are very important, especially now. I do not imagine you want things to go further to the extreme -- "cruising for a bruising." It is a much slower and more difficult path, because so much time is spent dealing with symptoms of excess. It is up to you, of course.
Suggestion: Practice wisely within your limits, live a full life, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 12:33:39 PM
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So, assuming the gentleman above doesn't have ring worm, and his rash is due to kundalini overload, are there certain features of "kundalini rash" that point to that diagnosis, like whether it is generally itchy or not, where on the body it pops up, and whether it happens only at certain times of kundalini symptoms, and so on? A lot of things can cause a rash.
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 2:40:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John C
So, assuming the gentleman above doesn't have ring worm, and his rash is due to kundalini overload, are there certain features of "kundalini rash" that point to that diagnosis, like whether it is generally itchy or not, where on the body it pops up, and whether it happens only at certain times of kundalini symptoms, and so on? A lot of things can cause a rash.
Hi John:
I agree that rashes can have many different causes. But in this case it is a familiar scenario -- symmetrical/systemic rash combined with a host of other symptoms, all preceded by an aggressive and unbalanced approach to practices (see other posts linked in my previous post). So it has "kundalini excess" written all over it.
A kundalini rash will be symmetrical (both sides of the body), can be poison ivy-like (itchy and oozing in more serious cases), and can occur symmetrically just about anywhere on the body -- arms, legs, abdomen, back, neck, and even face. It can become quite a major thing, as was dramatized to the extreme in the Secrets of Wilder novel. Or it can just be some symmetrical reddening, or even just a flushed feeling (most common). Extreme rashes are pretty rare, usually found only in those who press practices (particularly crown and/or kumbhaka with mudras & bandhas) way beyond what is prudent.
Kundalini rash is caused by excessive inner energy flowing through neurobiological obstructions. That is why we call such events "premature." The nervous system is not ready to handle that degree of inner flow radiating from the center (hence the symmetry). Later on, after the appropriate purification, the nervous system will handle it just fine, and it will be known as an endless flow of ecstatic bliss.
See Katrine's post today for a good later stage description: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3530#30941
Her practice is very sparing, because it takes very little to keep that huge divine flywheel going once it is approaching infinite velocity, which is infinite stillness, or "the shine," as she calls it. It is interesting that her description is in a topic on "healing," which is indicative of the vast outflow of divine love, and the entrainment that naturally occurs in others, leading to healing.
We have seen rash and energy scenarios of one degree or other many times before, so it is pretty clear what is going on in TI's case. Hopefully it is clear to him, because he will have to make some decisive adjustments in practice to smooth this out.
It should also be mentioned that if anyone feels their health is being compromised, they should go and see a doctor. If it is kundalini, then going to a doctor will not likely turn up anything conclusive (most doctors are stumped by kundalini symptoms), and the lack of a medical answer may point to it being an underlying kundalini event. Unfortunately, it may take a number of costly and inconvenient tests to rule out the usual medical suspects, and unnecessary treatments may be prescribed along the way as well.
The medical versus spiritual symptoms discussion has occurred quite a few times here in the forums, and most of the cases I recall led to kundalini by process of elimination. Sometimes people come here looking for answers after they have exhausted their medical options. So, we speak from experience in offering these suggestions. Still, if health becomes a concern, then we should go to a doctor. It is better to be safe than sorry.
It will be wonderful when the medical profession gets on board with excessive symptoms relating to human spiritual transformation. The prescription can read, "Self-pace your practices, and call me in the morning."
The guru is in you.
PS: In Ayurveda, rash is considered to be pitta imbalance, and there are a variety of natural therapies available for helping restore internal energy balance, beginning with basic diet and lifestyle considerations -- avoid those chili peppers and keep cool and calm. Of course, if the underlying cause (imbalance in practices) is not addressed, Ayurvedic remedies will not solve it.
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 4:04:43 PM
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| Thankyou Yogani. It's interesting how things can go wrong. Gopi Krishna sure suffered alot back in the old days, and didn't seem to know what to do about it. Maybe some people who are thought to be psychotic are actually having disordered kundalinis instead. Maybe some people who think they are having kundalini visions and voices are psychotic instead. Could that be true as well? |
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 4:31:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John C
Thankyou Yogani. It's interesting how things can go wrong. Gopi Krishna sure suffered alot back in the old days, and didn't seem to know what to do about it. Maybe some people who are thought to be psychotic are actually having disordered kundalinis instead. Maybe some people who think they are having kundalini visions and voices are psychotic instead. Could that be true as well?
Hi John:
With good education and support, things don't have to go so wrong. We are learning. The old way was to sweep it all under the rug, and nobody benefited much from that. So it is time to face our full possibilities head on, and provide the means for good progress with safety. The technology of the information age makes it much more feasible to do this.
Oh sure, mental illness and kundalini can be confused also. That has been discussed quite a lot in the forums as well. Try a few searches.
The good news is that all these things are going to be addressed in the years ahead, so confusion in these matters will be steadily on the decline. By necessity, the accelerating phenomenon of human spiritual transformation is bringing on a new era in the medical field. Lots of opportunity for research and support. These are exciting times.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 4:59:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
A kundalini rash will be symmetrical (both sides of the body),
Yogani, just a data point for you. Mine is on left side exclusively, near coccyx. I'm informed that in Chinese medicine, that's a spot for "fire channel" excesses to manifest. I've lately realized that I had a kundalini awakening at age 12 or so, and I remember having what they called eczema on my left ankle at the time. That's apparently another point on the fire channel route. Sorry to get Taoist about it, you can ignore that part. But this is definitely K rash, and quite assymetrical. |
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 5:17:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
A kundalini rash will be symmetrical (both sides of the body),
Yogani, just a data point for you. Mine is on left side exclusively, near coccyx. I'm informed that in Chinese medicine, that's a spot for "fire channel" excesses to manifest. I've lately realized that I had a kundalini awakening at age 12 or so, and I remember having what they called eczema on my left ankle at the time. That's apparently another point on the fire channel route. Sorry to get Taoist about it, you can ignore that part. But this is definitely K rash, and quite assymetrical.
Hi Jim:
Ah, very interesting. I wonder if your rash is the exception that proves the rule.
Do you think there is a consistent symtomatic difference between a left-side or right-side imbalance (non-symmetrical), versus a broad overload (symmetrical/systemic)?
It would be interesting to see the stats on it for a large group of kundalini rash cases. Another scientific study to add to the list!
Well, I hope it doesn't come to that. We should be heading off overloads before they happen. It's kind of hard to do in spontaneous awakening cases (like yours may have been), but certainly doable for those who come to learn practices, because the self-pacing guidelines come in the same box with the practices. We can only hope that everyone reads the directions and takes them to heart.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 6:34:25 PM
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The rash is my only remaining immediate symptom (i.e. it's tightly proportional to degree of energization in real time, almost to the hour). Ear buzzing is more unpredictable, as is underarm itching. My whole kidney weakness/blood pressure/weight issue is entirely fuzzy, though I think it's a broadly systemic symptom. I hope this answers your question. So my overload is slight...but I'm doing very very minimal practice (10 mins med once per day, and 10 mins pranayama, and no asana due to a hip injury).
The grounding stuff I've been doing has helped, but it also increases overall flow, so it's been nearly zero sum re: rash. I'm learning to experience pranotthana without having it automatically result in kundalini surge (directly analogous to holding at pre-orgasmic plateau), and that seems to be the only thing that reliably reduces the rash symptom. I'm not thrilled about fostering that sliver of resistance, however. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 8:51:38 PM
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Hi Jim,
We all have to manage our practices as we feel are best for ourselves, but since you put it out there, couldn't help notice your pranayama to meditation ratio.
Jim wrote:
quote:
10 mins med once per day, and 10 mins pranayama, and no asana due to a hip injury
Seems like a lot of pranayama for someone who has repeatedly mentioned that he is running on the "high" side in the energy department. From reading the lessons, I always got the impression that staying on a 2 to 1 ratio of meditation to pranayama might be in our best interests in order to progress most quickly and with as little turbulence as possible.
Of course this is all inference on my part from what Yogani has written, but I currently do 2.5 minutes of pranayama, 1 yoni mudra kumbhaka and 8 minutes of meditation followed by 3 minutes or so of samyama. No energy imbalances here to report about as long as I stick to this formula, but we all know how seductive the energy side of the equation can be!  An extra 1 minute on any of these practices can be enough to put me a wee bit over.
There aren't any right answers and we all have to manage our practices to the best of our abilities, but interested to see how others balance these practices out or as we shrink our routines, what Yogani recommends in terms of ratios? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 10:36:17 PM
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Thanks, Anthem. Thing is, I'm weird. Pranayama doesn't cultivate energy for me. Meditation does (or, more specifically, the surrender of meditation). The pranayama just balances it...which I need. But maybe I'll try pulling back to 5 mins pranayama and see what happens. Thanks for the input!
I agree on the seductiveness of energy experiences. But I can say I'm squarely past that. I like silence a thousand times more. Ecstasy is a distraction. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 10:44:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Please, check these links out if you haven't already!
Kundalini excess symptoms: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2146
Personally, I'm always on the verge of overdoing, and have to self-pace a lot. Ringing in the ears and rashes are among my first symptoms and what may come after... Phew... I'd rather not tell about!
Hi emc :)
Thank you very much for the concern and information. I appreciate you. :)
I read Katrine's link about the rashes. I love reading Katrine's posts. They give me tingles until I feel like a cloud. I just float away. Tears run down my face. I especially love it when she says that she is a church. That is how I feel too, now with a praying voice in it. I'm so happy to have found all of these wonderful people on this site. :)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2008 : 11:59:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John C
So, assuming the gentleman above doesn't have ring worm, and his rash is due to kundalini overload, are there certain features of "kundalini rash" that point to that diagnosis, like whether it is generally itchy or not, where on the body it pops up, and whether it happens only at certain times of kundalini symptoms, and so on? A lot of things can cause a rash.
Hi John,
The rash is not ringworm. I have looked at pictures of ringworm, and there is no raised edge. What the rash looks like a consistent pink area with dried skin flakes on some parts. There is no break in the skin. The rash sort of comes and goes. It is not itchy. I found it very strange that the rash occurs just above the minor arm chakras on the inside of the elbow joint, especially since the waves of tingles that I often get seem to envelope the upper arms like I was wearing shoulder pads, yet the thickness of the waves doesn't carry down into my forearms.
I take 2000 IU of Vit D and 2 servings of yogurt per day.
I have never had rashes before and I am not allergic to anything (as far as I know).
I agree with you that it would be great to hear of other people's experiences with kundalini rash. :)
Thanks for your participation, John. :)
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 12:39:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi TI:
Balance and self-pacing in practices and daily living are very important, especially now. I do not imagine you want things to go further to the extreme -- "cruising for a bruising." It is a much slower and more difficult path, because so much time is spent dealing with symptoms of excess. It is up to you, of course.
Suggestion: Practice wisely within your limits, live a full life, and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
Hi Yogani
No, I have not forgotten your advice. I certainly appreciate that you've taken the time to read my posts and lend your experienced eye to my practices.
Somehow, I do not regard all of this as a premature crown opening. I kind of view it like "things are happening" and "Yogani's approach and methodology of practicing at least twice a day, breathing and meditation works". (I've been doing the spinal breathing and deep silence meditation and samyama as my core exercises now since Dec 2007). There is great value in consistent practice and performing breathing routines before deep meditation.
I admit, I do practice other things; my meditation before I go to sleep is free-form: I do whatever I like. Sometimes I channel healing energy to people, pray, focus on my heart chakra, wear some amethyst/rose quartz/lapis crystals etc. During the day at work I will bounce my legs, practice kechari, do some hissing breath to activate my third eye or gaze for a while just to re-affirm the connection between the third eye and the perineum. I will also do the microcosmic orbit if my head/upper body gets too hot, but to tell you the truth, I kind of like the heat.
Today, for example, I did my normal practice except I did not add the praying part nor did I enact any great desire to love God. All in all it was a very stable practice. There was no voice praying... I had to know if I could cool my jets and regain some composure. I will go exploring the voice again soon.
This evening I chanelled divine energy to my Yogi tea. I requested the energy from God, I was filled with waves of tingles consistently through my whole body and I spent 1 minute 'blessing' my tea. After, the palms of my hands were finely tingly.
I think the main component that brings about the intense experiences is sending love to God. Whenever I really make an effort to send God love from my heart and I whisper the "i am" like I am calling out God's name, things really start to happen. If, on the other hand, I keep it fairly mechanical, the practice is stable (although I will see some visions and other things, it is much less emotional and intense).
Oh, and thank you for the link of Katrine's post
TI
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 05:41:45 AM
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Tibetan,
I hope you won't suffer from any aftermaths of the "high" you are experiencing at the moment. The advice given here is shared from years of experience, as Yogani points out, but we all have our own journeys, and perhaps you will go smoothly from this phase to next...
Jim, I'd rather not indulge in my victimhood, and therefore I won't tell you about all the mess created here due to overload!  I can just mention that when falling down in the back-lash, getting mindy again and VERY irritated with all the rashes, ringing in the ears etc the emotional turmoil bla bla....---> the manifestations of that negativity goes INCREADIBLY FAST!!!! I am absolutely fascinated by the speed and magnitude of the negativity manifestations in my life at the moment, due to The law of attraction (which as I see it rules in the world of the unconscious mind to a great extent - when falling back into patterns in unawareness, patterns RULE).
About the rashes. I remember the first thread I read here in forum on rashes. Then we spoke of the rash that comes at the lower back, just where the rump splits, (the "rump notch"??? what's the English word for it?) That's a common one for me, and now it has spread to my neighbour who is beginning to get rashes as well... Ooo, that radiance... Don't know if you with symmetrical mean "both sides of the body", if "centered" is something else? This one is centred. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 08:41:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Jim, I'd rather not indulge in my victimhood, and therefore I won't tell you about all the mess created here due to overload!
emc, I of course respect your wishes. But we've had few horror stories here, and I thought it might be helpful for newbies to have a real-life cautionary tale to consider.
As for energy symptoms being manifestations of negativity, I don't know. I generally get such symptoms when i'm least mindy and most surrendered. For sure, these symptoms can pull me out of that and threaten a degree of despair. But I think (?) the symptoms come before the despair.
For a long long time I thought that all that was needed was less resistance. But less resistance (i.e. more surrender) inexorably leads to more energy, which leads to more rash. So one can't just open and yield one's way out of overenergization. "Just keep going" doesn't work, alas. You've got to deal with it (via pacing, or, in particularly severe cases like mine, exploring grounding methods from yoga and other traditions).
quote:
Originally posted by emc
the lower back, just where the rump splits, (the "rump notch"??? what's the English word for it?)
Where I come from, we call that "the ass crack". But "rump notch" is considerably less rude and vulgar! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 07 2008 08:43:12 AM |
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 10:29:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
Hi Jim,
We all have to manage our practices as we feel are best for ourselves, but since you put it out there, couldn't help notice your pranayama to meditation ratio.
Jim wrote:
quote:
10 mins med once per day, and 10 mins pranayama, and no asana due to a hip injury
Seems like a lot of pranayama for someone who has repeatedly mentioned that he is running on the "high" side in the energy department. From reading the lessons, I always got the impression that staying on a 2 to 1 ratio of meditation to pranayama might be in our best interests in order to progress most quickly and with as little turbulence as possible.
Of course this is all inference on my part from what Yogani has written, but I currently do 2.5 minutes of pranayama, 1 yoni mudra kumbhaka and 8 minutes of meditation followed by 3 minutes or so of samyama. No energy imbalances here to report about as long as I stick to this formula, but we all know how seductive the energy side of the equation can be!An extra 1 minute on any of these practices can be enough to put me a wee bit over.
There aren't any right answers and we all have to manage our practices to the best of our abilities, but interested to see how others balance these practices out or as we shrink our routines, what Yogani recommends in terms of ratios?
Hi Anthem and Jim:
A 1:1 ratio between spinal breathing pranayama and deep meditation may be a bit front end loaded, but everyone is different. I would not say that 1:2 is the ideal SBP/DM ratio, because it could be too much SBP in some cases and a 1:4 ratio could work better for some (as in 5 min SBP and 20 min DM). I think we can say with some certainty that more SBP than DM could be courting energy overloads, but those with a long background in kriya yoga (an SBP path) might disagree.
It is hard to say what the ideal balance will be between spinal breathing and deep meditation. It really depends on individual purification and opening, and on where a person is on their path. It is all over the lot among the many practitioners here. So the right answer is what works best for the practitioner, and that puts it squarely in the hands of self-pacing.
We offer basic guidelines in the lessons (ratios somewhere between 1:4 and 1:2), and after that we each must find our own balance. If there are energy difficulties, then different ratios and times should be tried, keeping in mind the probable delay in effects for several days or weeks with any new configuration. So baby steps are recommended when making changes in any aspect of our routine. Unless, of course, we are dealing with a major overload -- then we should cut back immediately, regroup and ground for a while, and come back with baby steps later on according to our bhakti.
What we know for sure is that spinal breathing pranayama and deep meditation together in sequence are far more powerful than either one is as a stand alone. If we consider that kriya yoga practitioners are trained to do spinal breathing for hours every day, often with limited results after years of practice, it is pretty amazing that a few minutes of spinal breathing becomes industrial strength yoga when followed by 15-20 minutes of deep meditation. It goes the other way too. Deep meditation becomes much more effective when preceded by spinal breathing. Judiciously add on samyama, asanas, mudras, bandhas, kumbhaka, chin pump, bastrika, etc ... and hang on to your hat (while self-pacing). So it goes in the new world of open source integrated yoga practices.
Wish I could be more specific, but I think the variations on ratios and times mentioned by practitioners in this topic alone tell the tale. We each are doing whatever is necessary with the tools we have available.
Hence...
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 2:39:57 PM
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Jim,
quote:
As for energy symptoms being manifestations of negativity, I don't know. I generally get such symptoms when i'm least mindy and most surrendered. For sure, these symptoms can pull me out of that and threaten a degree of despair. But I think (?) the symptoms come before the despair.
Oh, I didn't mean the energy symptoms are a result of negativity! I agree with you, physical symptoms first, then mental, and then emotional due to a spinning mind and then, according to the L of A, negative things start to manifest in life with increadible precision!
Day one: without symptoms.
Day two: I wake up in the morning with a headache, scratch my rashes, I get irritated, I think "S H I T, I've overdone it - what a jerk I am!", I raise up too quickly in the bathroom hitting the head in the mirror, I say "Ouch, God I'm a clumsy idiot", the ringing in the ear gets louder, the cat pees on the bed and runs around the flat with wet paws spreading it out - I silently curse it, I crash a plate in the kitchen while doing breakfast, I miss the tube, I get late for work, I then get into a fight at work, the students protest against everything - self-destructive thoughts continue to pile up in a mind on the verge of exploding, I end up in a private email fight with a forumite, I buy an expensive mobile phone of a brand I hate and when I remember I hated the illogical menues I sell it for half the price immediately just to get rid of it - loosing lots of money I could have spent more wisely, I get home after work and my bills turn out not having been paid so loads of penalty fees are all over my doormat, hot sunburn feeling inside of my skin all over, pressure in the head, in the evening I impulsively break up from my relationship due to thoughts like "I wont let my anger and false accusations hurt another innocent man again, I better break up before I get too bitchy with him" followed by terrible feelings of depression and self-loathing that wants me to crawl out of my skin - patterns playing with me ruthlessly, and à propos skin - there is was: the itching *scratch, scratch* etc etc etc. Going to sleep, exhausted and tired. Waking up in the middle of the night finding myself scratching inside of thighs and the whole genital area until I bleed, turning like a propeller in the bed... then despair is there for sure!
Negativity all over the place. From one day to another. "Mind creates reality." Not a sight of any witness or awareness in it at all.
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But less resistance (i.e. more surrender) inexorably leads to more energy, which leads to more rash.
Yep! I don't try to find my way back to the relaxing witness mode when being in that state. I walk, and walk and walk and drink water and drink water. I go out in the rain or snow and sit down for an hour on a cool rock in the forest that chills my burning root chakra to a comfortable temperature, at least temporarily. I desperately eat meat, masturbate to get energy draining orgasms, exercise, clean the flat, go into the city to go shopping just to move arond in low frequent areas...
I'm a poor sight when in overload mode.  
And a sight for sore eyes when flying high in angelic mode blazing off light that knocks poor muslims from Kuwait to the floor!
PS: I'll stay with rump notch, then! |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 3:45:52 PM
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Thanks, Yogani and Anthem. I'll tinker with that ratio a bit. Really, I've arrived at 10/10 simply by starting with 10/20 and having scaled back the meditation portion....so there's no particular intelligence there.
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Deep meditation becomes much more effective when preceded by spinal breathing. Judiciously add on samyama, asanas, mudras, bandhas, kumbhaka, chin pump, bastrika, etc ... and hang on to your hat (while self-pacing).
Yogani, let me ask a naive beginnerish question: what do you mean by "hang on to your hat"? Are you refering to the whiz-bang energetic/ecstatic experience of kundalini arousal?
I guess what I'm asking is this: once spiritual energy is up and running, is there meaningful reason to do further energy work via these other practices? Or are they a toolset for getting that energy moving, period?
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 4:31:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
...what do you mean by "hang on to your hat"? Are you refering to the whiz-bang energetic/ecstatic experience of kundalini arousal?
I guess what I'm asking is this: once spiritual energy is up and running, is there meaningful reason to do further energy work via these other practices? Or are they a toolset for getting that energy moving, period?
Hi Jim:
By "Hang on to your hat," I mean accelerated progress on all fronts within us -- both energetic and in cultivating stillness. Both of these are multi-dimensional. Obviously, no one can do it all at once. Hence the proviso, "while self-pacing."
Each practice has its own particular angle and influence on the whole, and the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. So just because we are getting a boost out of one practice, it does not mean the other practices are not going to add new momentum with balance. Not all energy practices are the same. On the other hand, there is only so much purification and opening the nervous system can accommodate in any given time frame, so it all has to be regulated for that.
In the AYP lessons, the practices are put more or less in the order of influence and importance. But there can be some shuffling according to individual need. For example, samyama can be moved up the list with good effect. Other things are best left in the order given for undertaking them, like deep meditation, spinal breathing, and the mantra enhancements.
It is not expected that everyone will be doing all the practices in every sitting beyond the core practices of spinal breathing and deep meditation. Beginners may tend to strive for a "full boat" more than advanced practitioners. The more seasoned we become, the more we are able to accomplish with less -- the momentum/flywheel effect. Even so, advanced practitioners can benefit from new angles of practice from time to time. It keeps it interesting. There are always new openings. The trick is to find them within the context of our own unwinding karmic matrix, without going off the deep end. The full range of available practices are a tool kit for that.
So, no -- one energy practice leading to an active kundalini does not rule out the other energy practices. But self-pacing might, at least for a while. And then it is baby steps...
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2008 : 5:44:10 PM
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Thanks. Maybe one day I'll have headroom to add a practice or two and see for myself. It's hard to imagine that day, or that I'd seek energy when the stillness is what I most crave, but time will tell.
I can attest to the momentum/flywheel effect. When I started, I was aware that practices continued after I got up, even after properly lengthy rest period. And that continuity has unquestionably deepened and magnified over the years (and with that acceleration comes greater and greater pacing need).
I wish the accelerating flywheel meant less backtracking into grasping mind-ishness. But I have to keep relearning the fact that all those drives never disappear (or even, really, decrease), they just grow more and more transparent and thus transcendable. The tune keeps playing, but it becomes more obvious that it's blasting out of a laughably cheap cheesy speaker. Why somedays I'm more liable to get hooked in spite of the transparency is just one of those unknowable things; more transparency generally means more consistent transcendence, but the two are definitely not synchronous processes. My natural inclination would be to work at mindfulness, but AYP has convinced me to seek less to control the process (you may find it hard to believe, Yogani, but I was even worse on that score before....) |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 07 2008 5:57:29 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 08 2008 : 1:59:46 PM
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emc, lots of things I can relate to. I come from what I describe as an "Oh, $hit" family....everything even mildly annoying that happened would always elicit a loud, utterly aggrieved cry of "Oh, $hit!". That's hurt me (because I followed that example for years), but also helped, because I see that mindset so very clearly and precisely.
You know how the trick in meditation is to never get annoyed with yourself for drifting off mantra? that the practice is to gently, neutrally, bring mind back to mantra? That, in fact, that process of drift/return is precisely what meditation is about? There's a deeper place within that unjudgingly can guide oneself back to mantra, and that starts to feel more and more like the Real Thing, while the distracting thoughts and experiences start to feel more and more like mere noise. It's an internal flip of perspective, and meditation teaches you the knack.
You've been meditating long enough that you have that knack. Can you apply it to your everyday life? when things go wrong, can you return to witness as you feel yourself about to go into "oh-$hit" land? Can you return to witness if you're all the way in "oh-$hit" land? Can you return yourself to witness if you're dealing with the meta "oh $hit" effect of realizing that you fell in the trap? Or the meta meta "oh-$hit" effect of realizing you fell into the trap of being annoyed at falling in the trap? or being annoyed at being annoyed? Or being annoyed at being annoyed at being annoyed?
Can you, in other words, develop a kneejerk, almost innate reaction to recognizing that sort of thing as "scenery"? The "Oh $hit" reaction (and the judging that precedes it) is always scenery. Always noise. The self waits patiently for the drama to end. The entire process is a mere hiccup that is simply to be let go of, not "worked on" (just as we don't "work on" issues that come up while in meditation).
I remember a few years ago, I was walking in light clothing and it started raining. Everyone starting running for cover and exclaiming, reaching for umbrellas or shelter. I instinctually did the same. And then I realized...why? I felt like a thousand tons of baggage had dropped off my shoulders as I simply kept walking. Wet. Just like before, only wet. Not defiant or exuberant, and not particularly proud of my equanimity. Just wet, that's all, and seeing absolutely no sane reason to judge wetness as "bad". I felt so free. "Oh $hit" was gone, and it never strongly came back (though I do get caught in other sorts of drama still).
I sometimes use umbrellas. And you can spend your hour perched on your Cold Rock. It's not about ceasing to act or react appropriately. But you bathe in love whether you choose the lady or the tiger. Blessed if you do, blessed if you don't. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 08 2008 2:22:28 PM |
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kundalini rash?
