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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 29 2008 : 4:55:57 PM
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Well, I just got up from a couple minutes spent dipping (finally) into Yogani's Self-Inquiry book. And thank goodness I'm alone here...simply reading the breezy introductory first few pages, I was groaning like a porno actor. Something about reading Yogani's writings totally gets to my essence (as I've said elsewhere, my kundalini shot open after having read a paragraph or so of the first AYP lesson I ever encountered). I get "buzzes" from some other spiritual writings, as well, but a lot less predictably.
Curiously, while I always enjoy and learn from Yogani's postings to the forum or his emails, they don't give me quite the same charge. And this has me wondering....Yogani, when you're working on a book or lesson, do you sit down to write only immediately after meditation? Is there something special or different about your approach? Or is it just that you're secretly dosing the ink?  |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2008 : 5:23:11 PM
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Or is it just that you're secretly dosing the ink?
I can't answer for Yogani, but I can make an educated guess. One big factor is when you are reading a book, Yogani is controlling the whole show; he's setting the entire context of your cognitive experience, and controlling how it unfolds. This contrasts with his postings to the forum which is a reaction to a context which has been established outside Yogani's control. Another factor is of course that I expect he puts a lot more time per word into the book.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2008 : 6:27:25 PM
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Speaking as a writer, there's always at least some measure of control over the environment and media you appear in, but also always at least some measure of constraint. That, in fact, is why i edit my postings so much....they read differently once the posting is made than they did in the composition box, and I check back to assure that my intent endured ("preview" doesn't help...it's just a third environment). Every good writer knows that if you polish a manuscript to the point of perfection, and then print it out, you'll find a vast number of problems....becuase the media/environment of paper is different than that of screen. But my point is that I don't think you're ever totally in control of the environment...it's always about working within the arbitrary parameters, even if a few more or less of them are adjustable in any given situation (and I guess that's sort of pointing toward a broader yogic insight).
As for investing more time, yeah, I thought of that. I bounce between thinking that 1. his books go through endless revision and massaging and 2. thinking he's simply in a flow state when he writes and doesn't need to do more than a couple drafts. Lately I'm leaning more toward the latter. Just out of intuition, but also I dont' think there's a level of massaging and revision that can yield that particular result. I don't think.... 
But let's see what Yogani says (if he doesn't mind chiming in, that is!). |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 29 2008 6:30:40 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 29 2008 : 6:44:09 PM
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| Also, is it just me? Or do others similarly get a charge out of his writings quite aside from what's being said? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 03:27:22 AM
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No, it's not only you. All books written from sages contain words directly from Truth and that gives a boost when you're open enough to receive. I think that's what Yogani means when he writes "If the reader is ready and the book is worthy, amazing things can happen." It only shows you're ready to take it in.
That's also why Eckhart Tolle puts those small signs in between the text parts, so that you are reminded to just stop and take in the energies that are starting to move, (= the widening of the consiousness taking place while reading). I can't read more than a few pages of his book "Stillness speaks" before I get nauseaus. That book is so amazingly loaded with Truth it knocks me over. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 09:41:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I bounce between thinking that 1. his books go through endless revision and massaging and 2. thinking he's simply in a flow state when he writes and doesn't need to do more than a couple drafts. Lately I'm leaning more toward the latter. Just out of intuition, but also I don't think there's a level of massaging and revision that can yield that particular result. I don't think....
But let's see what Yogani says (if he doesn't mind chiming in, that is!).
Hi Jim and All:
Yes, it is #2. This is especially true of the E-Series books, which are not written incrementally over time like the AYP lessons are. For the E-Series books, there is a formation stage when the content is being gathered and organized inside with practically nothing being written beyond an evolving table of contents. And then it all pours out in a few weeks. The internal formation stage can take much longer than the actual writing.
Once the writing happens and there is a complete draft, it is only a matter of cleaning up my poor typing, spelling, and removing distortions I added to the process. None of this affects the original flow very much, except to hopefully make it more readable. When editing, the first priority is always to put myself in the reader's shoes, but I think the flow has taken that into account already. There are also several others who read the draft, which is a big help in cleaning up the messes I add to the flow. I am a very imperfect channel for this, and most of the work that is done on the draft is to compensate for that.
As for how it affects people, I think that comes from both sides, with the reader side being the dynamic aspect over the long term. Once completed, the writing is the writing, and it is the reader who then becomes the channel. With spiritual practices in the picture, every reading experience is certain to be more insightful than the last.
Which just goes to show...
The guru is in you. 
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 09:45:45 AM
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| PS: It is stillness speaking to stillness. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 09:56:37 AM
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I view yogani like a brother, and his teachings conveying his true self, an essential support, whether via book or online discussion:
VIL |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 10:46:10 AM
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Thanks for replying, Yogani.
quote:
The internal formation stage can take much longer than the actual writing.
That jars a thought for me. I've always had a lot of writing projects in semi-dormancy (especially when there's no deadline forcing their production!). For years, I thought this was a sign of laziness on my part. And maybe it was, a little. But since meditation has increased my self-insight, I understand that what I'm doing is allowing stuff to "bake"...the internal formulation you're talking about. The laziness enters the equation when baking/formulation has happened yet I don't actually start typing!
I guess a lot of the angst famously experienced by artists (re: the fickleness of Muse) is due to the ineffable fact that external output only really flows when the idea is fully embraced by silence, which pushes it outward (it's all samyama!). You can't force it...in fact, forcing kills it!
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When editing, the first priority is always to put myself in the reader's shoes
That's just good writing! What differentiates professional writers from amateurs is that the former understand their job is to work hard so the reader doesn't have to. The clearer one's broadcast, the more faithfully the radios pick up the signal!
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cleaning up the messes I add to the flow. I am a very imperfect channel for this
Every good artist has intuitively felt the need to get him/herself OUT OF THE WAY, and some manage this more consistently than others. You clearly do a better job of that than most. Everything we do is limited, but everything we let be done is unlimited...the only limitation coming from our own grabby intrusions on that flow.
The problem is that when it's all done, credit goes not to flow, but to the nattering Me that tried unceasingly to screw it all up. In art as in yoga, that which has been restrained takes credit for that which has been achieved via its restraint. That's the Big Trap.
quote:
As for how it affects people, I think that comes from both sides, with the reader side being the dynamic aspect over the long term. Once completed, the writing is the writing, and it is the reader who then becomes the channel. With spiritual practices in the picture, every reading experience is certain to be more insightful than the last.
For sure. that's why I periodically reread your lessons. On the mundane level, it serves as reminder, and allows me to catch some of your more subtle clues (pick up the sutra fuzzily in samyama, open the throat in pranayama, etc) that seem a little "throwaway" on first read. But the practice is also encoded at a higher level via the process you went through to form and to write, and reaches greater and greater fruition as I, the reader, join that same process. I suppose that's what's meant by the concept of "transmission". |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 01 2008 10:59:37 AM |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 12:04:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I've always had a lot of writing projects in semi-dormancy (especially when there's no deadline forcing their production!). For years, I thought this was a sign of laziness on my part. And maybe it was, a little. But since meditation has increased my self-insight, I understand that what I'm doing is allowing stuff to "bake"...the internal formulation you're talking about. The laziness enters the equation when baking/formulation has happened yet I don't actually start typing!
I guess a lot of the angst famously experienced by artists (re: the fickleness of Muse) is due to the ineffable fact that external output only really flows when the idea is fully embraced by silence, which pushes it outward (it's all samyama!). You can't force it...in fact, forcing kills it!
Hi Jim:
Deadlines help, especially ones that are advertised, since a promise made is a promise to be kept. And necessity is the mother of invention.
Publicly stated deadlines require us to prioritize things, and our inner processes will follow the lead, or compel us to rearrange our commitments. Either way, the entire process is expedited, usually at a cost to the person who is in the deadline cross-hairs.
Creativity would like to take its sweet time within us. The truth of the matter is that the expression of creativity (art) will not happen much without a perceived need for it. At the same time, what few of us realize is that we are all on a deadline. It is called our lifespan. So there's not a minute to waste, or is there?
To quote the immortal words of Joe Walsh (again). "People tell me I'm lazy, but it takes all my time."
I can relate to that when the internal formation process is going on.
As most know, I have used published deadlines to help keep the AYP books flowing. Constant deadlines get tiring after a while though, so I'm looking forward to loosening them once the E-Series is caught up this summer. The intention is to move ahead at a more relaxed pace after that, with a return to online lesson posting, etc. That can be a pretty crazy life too, with all the email that is generated, but I am betting that much of it can be diverted to the forums where so much wonderful support is available now. Thank you!
Yes, the writing and its external trappings (work, deadlines, etc.) are very much samyama. As with our yoga practices, or anything else, it takes time to clear the channels and become fluent in whatever it is we are doing in life. It is the rise of stillness in action.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 12:21:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Creativity would like to take its sweet time within us. The truth of the matter is that the expression of creativity (art) will not happen much without a perceived need for it.
Ah, ok. So while you can't force the flow, the flow can be elicited (sucked?) by need. Much the way the samyama sutra goes who-knows-where, according to need. As we open to the flow, we also open the flow to the need. I get it.
My only confusion is the word "perceived". I don't "perceive" where the sutra goes, or where it needs to go. It innately flows to need in a way that seems apart from perception (though I guess perception may sometimes inform the process).
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Mar 01 2008 12:29:48 PM |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 12:38:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
My only confusion is the word "perceived"...is that the optimal term? I don't "perceive" where the sutra goes, or where it needs to go. It innately flows to need in a way that seems apart from perception (though I guess perception may sometimes inform the process).
Ah, but who is perceiving? Something is using all the external faculties to make these things happen, even in our conscious choices. Where is the separation in this? Why should we look for a separation? It only gets in the way.
Just because I perceive a need to add 1 + 1 = 2, that doesn't mean a cosmic process isn't involved.
Just so, internal creative process + perceived need + action = art. Deadlines and work are part of that, so we do what must be done. Who care's who is doing it? In its fully developed state, it is doing itself. But we can't experience that if we keep second guessing the process. That is why the suggestion is to engage in spiritual practices and go out and do, using all the tools we have been blessed with, including our ability to perceive a need and choose to engage in effective action to fill it. That is what service is.
Where does all that come from? Inside. But the inside is outside and the outside is inside, you know. It is all one thing, until we separate it.
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 1:09:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Ah, but who is perceiving?
Oh, no...you've turned into Sailor Bob Adamson!  |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 1:27:56 PM
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yogani: Just because I perceive a need to add 1 + 1 = 2, that doesn't mean a cosmic process isn't involved.
Absolutely. It's impossible to say that it's just relative without an underlying truth.
If all of the circumstances in yogani's life were other than they were than this forum would not exist. He would not have been able to write all of the books without the internal/external experiences.
There is something greater at work and this is something that maybe some people will cringe at, due to all of the attachments created by people of religion and other spiritual traditions -diluting the purity of various paths. And to even mention the word "God" is almost a profane thing, and so it's more palatable, nowadays, to call it the Absolute or the Silent Witness or whatever conception we can use to describe the unknowable, which is expressed through the knowable: The body, nervous system, dream world, or whatever (the mind). That Divine Silence that is ever present.
We are all fortunate to have yogani and the Absolute, Brahman, Atman, It, or That, within all of us is more than aware of all that he has done - or anyone, for that matter, that is using whatever tool necessary for the betterment of another, especially the realization of who we are at the core. That's why we're drawn to people who help others. It's nothing special, and yet they are also special.
My pennies worth:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Mar 01 2008 1:56:12 PM |
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Black Rebel Radio
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 2:45:24 PM
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quote:
Ah, but who is perceiving?
oh....sorry....it was me....
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 3:49:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Ah, but who is perceiving?
Oh, no...you've turned into Sailor Bob Adamson!
Hi Jim:
That kind of inquiry by itself is "non-duality dodgeball." I can say that, being the one who just threw it at you.
It is the follow-up that really counts, as in what to do to realize That without getting the mind wrapped around the axle 300 times. It is what the Self-Inquiry book is about.
The guru is in you.
PS: Thank you, VIL. Yes, everything we have done has led to this convergent moment. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 01 2008 : 9:54:00 PM
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clk1710
92 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 5:36:45 PM
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Yogani, i'm in the middle of your Self-Inquiry book and after also reading your wisdom not just in this thread but in general, i just want to truly say thank you for your wisdom and practicality and for the simple and direct way that you lay things out in a way that i can understand and put to use. i have a tendency to overdramatize and overcomplicate things and i really feel that these practices and your guidance has been immensely valuable to me this past year and a half.
i'm not even finished with the Self-Inquiry book but i can definitely say that it is impossible for that book to be written by anyone who doesn't have a very high level of consciousness. i just feel inspired to say it's an honor to be in the presence of you as well as so many other wise souls. thank you to Yogani for your works and to all... especially for reminding me that the guru is in me!
namaste! |
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2008 : 12:51:58 AM
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Jim, partially due to reading your original post in this thread I bought the "Advanced Yoga Practices - Easy Lessons for Ecstatic Living" book. Thank you. When I (re)read "If you long for the knowledge of human spiritual transformation, you are worthy, and you have come to the right place" for the first time I began to cry. The second time chills went up my spine and time stopped.
When I first got involved in meditation three years ago I relearned how to read. I slowed way down, took lots of breaks, read and reread books like "The Power of Now" and "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind" until the wisdom in the books became a part of me. There's so much valuable information in Yogani's lessons that reading online, at this point, isn't enough.
Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche wrote in "The Tibetian Yogas of Dream and Sleep":
"This is how the mystic lives, seeing the magic, changing the environment with the mind, and allowing actions, even actions of the imagination, to have significance." (p. 103)
The first night after I received Yogani's book in the mail I was too tired to do much reading. I slept with the book and felt comforted by its presence. Its presence was significant. Thank you, Yogani.
aum namaste,
Joe
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