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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 08:10:35 AM
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I have been following a technique for a few months that has really helped me a lot and maybe it will help others. This technique would not have worked for me a year back. Some amount of inner silence is required for this to work. Anyone reading this, if you don't get it, please don't try to get it.. let it go and come back to it after a little while. It works wonders.. and it will work. So if for any reason you are wondering "what the heck is she talking about".. just let it go for now.
Thoughts like anything else in life, come up as waves. There is the point when the thought is forming (Creation-Brahma), when you are thinking the thought (Preservation-Vishnu) and when the thought drops/fades away (Destruction-Shiva)... to come up with the next thought. To make it clearer.. lets say you are looking at the screen.. now you move your focus to a pencil on your desk.. so.. you are bringing the pencil into focus (creation), you focus on the pencil (preservation), then you look at the screen again.. so your focus on the pencil fades (destruction). The same things happens with thoughts.
Even a year back if someone told me this, I would not have seen it. To me thoughts were a continuous flow without breaks.. constant chatter.
The technique:
Close your eyes and think about something you are really passionate about. This is important in the beginning when you are first learning the technique. It must be something that makes you really happy (you could do it with something that makes you really angry or sad.. but it's more fun starting off with something that makes you very happy  .) Now bring up the thought in your mind and just before the thought forms.. STOP.. and stay in that gap. You will feel a lot of bliss and ecstasy. Stay as long as you can in this gap.. it may be a few seconds or a few mins. Then bring the thought up in your mind... then drop the thought (let it fade away).. and just as it is fading away from your mind... Stop.. You should feel the same bliss.
As you continue with this practice the time you can stay in the gap increases. The prominence of ecstasy reduces (as with all practices) and you can actually live in pure awareness for a few mins.. no thoughts just pure bliss.
Any thoughts, emotions, feelings that bother you (the stronger the feeling the easier it is to observe how effective this technique is)... Consciously bring it up into your mind.. and just before the thought/emotion/feeling can manifest.. stop. You may have to try it a few times, but the entire thing just dissolves. You will feel yourself physically relaxing too. It comes very handy to unlearn the physical tensions that our body has not forgotten as was being discussed here.
As you get better at this, you can use it in every moment of your life. The more you use it.. the more you will start living in your inner silence. This technique is like a key that unlocks the door which gives you access to your inner silence/bliss any time of the day. It has not caused any overloads in me and actually helps calm any overloads that may happen as a result of other practices. Whatever the symptoms.. bring it up in your mind and before it manifests stop and it dissolves in the bliss. Has worked for stiff neck and back (dues to stress), slight headaches etc. When you wake up from a nightmare that scares you and you find it hard to go back to sleep.. bring up the dream and let it dissolve in the bliss. When something irritates you.. again bring it up and let it dissolve in the bliss. When you are worried, tired, stressed, sad.. really just about at any moment.. you can let it go in this bliss. It is also a great way to center yourself in awareness. Anytime during the day you find yourself mindy.. just do this technique and you will be centered in your awareness.
Let me know of your experience if you do try it.
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Edited by - Shanti on Feb 21 2008 08:14:54 AM |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 08:30:31 AM
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Thanks, Shanti :)
I've tried it and it's the same as samyama for me. Concentrate - dissolve - be the stillness
It works well on anything, like blocks in the body or using it in asanas, for sure :) |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 11:13:58 AM
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Hi Shanti:
Very beautiful.
Yes, it is a version of samyama, and will depend on the initial presence of some inner silence and a basic understanding about its potential, as you say.
The aspect of picking up on negatively charged thoughts as well as positive ones with samyama is covered in the Samyama book in the chapter on expanded applications. There it is pointed out that samyama on negative obstructions produces purification equally well as samyama on thoughts with positive implications.
Inner silence does not care whether objects are colored positive or negative. It will purify and illuminate them all in stillness. This is why the phrase "morally self-regulating" applies to all true samyama practice.
The emotional coloring itself brings in the power of the bhakti element (negative emotions can be used positively), though we should not go out of our way to be emotionally coloring thoughts during samyama, as it can impede the process of releasing. If the emotional charge is there already, this is good, but we should not be trying to create it during samyama practice itself. It will divide the mind.
In the section of the Samyama book on expanded applications it is suggested that those who are inclined to work on "world problems" can do so with samyama on emotionally charged words like: poverty, hunger, disease, fear, hatred, war, and so on...
Samyama will not increase the power of these emotionally charged ideas, but dissolve them bit by bit in the light of pure awareness, yielding outpourings of divine love. The more people who are doing this around the world in unstructured or structured ways, the more dissolving of the obstructions (contracted awareness) there will be.
Well, this is looking a bit beyond the insightful individual application you have shared, but I could not resist pointing out the connection. The microcosm is the macrocosm, and our influence within stillness can be expressed accordingly without limits.
Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 11:51:41 AM
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Shweta, where did you get this technique? Did you hear about it somewhere or did it come to you spontaneously?
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 12:42:38 PM
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That is beautiful Shweta :-)
I have been doing this throughout the days more and more. This is what I consider a part of self-inquiry.
Thanks for describing your experience so nicely for us. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 6:07:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Shweta, where did you get this technique? Did you hear about it somewhere or did it come to you spontaneously?
The above technique is something that came form reading the commentaries of sutra 22 in the book "Stanzas on Vibration" by Mark Dyczkowski...
http://books.google.com/books?id=IB...AO#PPA100,M1
"22. SPANDA IS STABLE IN THE
STATE ONE ENTERS WHEN EXTREMELY
ANGRY, INTENSELY EXCITED,
RUNNING OR WONDERING
WHAT TO DO." |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 9:51:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Let me know of your experience if you do try it.
It works exactly as you described. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2008 : 10:52:44 PM
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The technique introduced by Shanti seems similar to Tibetan Dzogchen practice and Rigpa awareness. I've not read any book of Yogani but as I mentioned in another thread, Yogani's last book "self-inquiry" seems connected to Dzogchen.
Thank you for sharing and helping me integrate so many systems fragmentation I have to deal along my path.
Albert |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 04:46:11 AM
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I was a bit confused at the start when looking at what a "thought" was, and how I could, get ready as such, for an oncoming thought, without having thought it in the first place 
However, I'm trying it and it is possible to do this.
I tried it with "hunger" last night and it stopped me from taking a comfort bowl of cereal
I tried it with the usual sutras during samyama this morning.
I was aware that I was about to embark on the sutras and that the first one was "love". This in itself was a thought about the sutras and about love - but it was just superficial.
Aware of the fact that the sutra "love" was on the way, I went into silence for a short period, then said "love" in my mind.
So what was the difference between the first thought of "love" and the second in the sutra. For me it is like I speak the sutra with my body and not just as an intellectual thought, it feels fuller and more complete, even though it is a thought. Does that make any sense?
Then I let the sutra go as in the normal samyama.
In general it made the sutras feel much more powerful. The pre-sutra silence was nice but didn't feel any ecstacy. On post-sutra silence I did feel ecstasy (which surprised me because I don't expect to feel much of that).
As I continued with the sutras I didn't feel ecstasy but it certainly supercharged the process. (I did this in combination with my own supercharging samyama process, which I will share sometime )
It's early days yet and I am particularly interested in applying it to re-conditioning the old habitual ways, or re-formatting the hard drive of my mind, or bringing the unconscious into consciousness, however you want to say it.
Thanks for the homework Shweta
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 05:31:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
I have been reading the Shiva Sutras and ...
You might enjoy watching Nityananda giving lectures about the Shiva Sutras, this is a link to Youtube videos: http://www.youtube.com/profile_vide...tion&page=16
There are a bunch of videos, just flip the pages to find those about Shiva sutras.
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Edited by - Lookatmynavelnow on Feb 22 2008 06:17:12 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 11:40:42 AM
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Thanks to all who did try it and thanks for your feedback.
Louis, yes, it is a wonderful tool to overcome any kind of mind addictions. Something like the HALT technique.. but you don't have to distract yourself for 15-20 mins to overcome the craving.. just bring it up a few times and let it dissolve.. and its gone. Also, you will find that in a few days.. that mental habit will completely dissolve.. it does not come back at all. At least that is how it has worked for me. Once it dissolves.. it stays away. May take a few days to be completely gone, depending on how much hold the mental habit has on you, .. but every day the strength of the carvings reduce.
LAMNN, thanks for the YouTube links. This was one of the concepts http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xyv...ture=related that brought this technique up.. the gap between thoughts. I like the way he explains the concept of time as our mind perceives it.
And this one is what Yogani says also.. when you go to a guru and ask to learn meditation and he says you first need to be well versed in yamas and niyamas.. and you wonder.. "if I have already mastered the yamas and niyamas.. why would I need to meditate?".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CugnvrUaWac
I agree with him.. the Shiva Sutras are really very practical.
"Getting" samyama played a big part in getting this. In Samyama tho.. we pick the word and drop it and rest in the silence and feel the silence move outwards (at least that is what I do).. in this case tho it's slightly reversed.. it is while I pick the thought (word) I stop. It almost feels like.. since I was going to bring up a thought and did not do so.. I feel like I have access to the energy that was going to be used to make that thought (maybe that is why Louis, you felt the energy in your sutra). I realized some time back, how much energy we put into thinking. When I started living in my silence more and more.. I could see how tired I got when I got into one of my ego/mindy modes. This energy, that is being exhausted by our non-stop thinking is freed when we start living in silence.. and this is the energy I think we get access to when we just bring up the thought and not think it. That is why, stronger the emotion/feeling.. stronger is the ecstasy and bliss.
In Kashmiri Shaivism.. it is called spanda or the movement/vibration of consciousness. It is the shakti (movement) that arises from Shiva (stillness).. I think this is what Yogani calls silence in motion. I guess it is all the same.. having more and more access to your inner silence.. guess a rose by any name is still a rose eh? |
Edited by - Shanti on Feb 22 2008 11:46:55 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 12:34:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
"Getting" samyama played a big part in getting this. In Samyama tho.. we pick the word and drop it and rest in the silence and feel the silence move outwards (at least that is what I do).. in this case tho it's slightly reversed.. it is while I pick the thought (word) I stop. It almost feels like.. since I was going to bring up a thought and did not do so.. I feel like I have access to the energy that was going to be used to make that thought (maybe that is why Louis, you felt the energy in your sutra).
Hi Shanti and All:
Recall that the original instruction for picking up a sutra in samyama is to pick it up at a very faint and fuzzy level. This can also be interpreted to mean "the energy before the thought."
Few can do this in the beginning, so we go through the procedure in fairly external and clunky ways in the mind for a while. But, in time, the procedure refines, as is the case in all practices, and then we are touching those sutras before they become objects in the mind, just as you are describing. And, yes, then we have access to much more energy in practice ... and in daily activity as the habit of samyama becomes gradually more prevalent in our everyday life.
The more we are picking up pre-thought, the more powerful samyama is, and the less we are grinding on gross thinking in the body-mind. This is a natural evolution that comes with deep meditation (cultivating the witness) and samyama (cultivating action from within the witness). It can't be forced. It is an evolution in stillness. We just favor less, and less will gradually come. And, as we know, less is more.
Some might ask, what is the difference between samyama and self-inquiry?
There is an intimate relationship between the two practices for sure, and this is pointed out in the Self-Inquiry book. We could say that, in the beginning, self-inquiry is a less structured and more free-ranging practice we can do informally as we go about our business every day, assuming we have enough abiding inner silence to fuel a "relational" practice. There can be much benefit in it.
Samyama, on the other hand, is structured within our twice-daily sitting routine, and creeps out as an inner habit into daily living from there along with abiding inner silence. Perhaps in the long run there is no difference at all between samyama and self-inquiry, as we find ourselves operating more and more from within stillness. When we can experience a sutra before it forms, then we also will have the abilty to experience all thoughts and perceptions before they form, and then can allow action to flow from within stillness all the way out. Stillness in action...
Another way to look at it might be to say that deep meditation and samyama are structured methods for developing the ability to live as stillness in action, while self-inquiry is how we can exercise that growing ability in real life situations.
That is what we are talking about here in a very practical way. Beautiful!
The guru is in you.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 9:17:35 PM
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i've been able to stop my thoughts long before there was any inner silence, but it took many months of daily practice and was very difficult. Actually some silence may have developed as a result, but I hadn't heard of the concept until later.
And yes, I recognized the "pre-thought" you're talking about, but had never identified the post-thought.
The pre-thought to me feels like an addictive urge, like the desire to boost your ego. It's more compelling than just the ego though, because there is the illusion of urgency and importance. is that the pre-thought you guys feel? Like it is important that you do something?
I always thought the bliss felt after letting go of the pre-thought was from the freedom from the addiction, and realization that the importance and urgency were illusions. I have never used it as a tool though, so I'm anxious to try that. Also it's so easy to get involved in the world and forget about things like that, so thanks, Shanti.
Reading this topic made me make a connection I hadn't thought of before. Years ago I used to jump off cliffs into the water with friends, and I found out when you climb to the top and step to the edge of the cliff, you have about three seconds to jump before fear will overcome you and you can't do it. It's the same with any kind of fear.
After reading this topic, I think the reason for that may be that the fear is a thought, and it takes three seconds to develop enough to be recognized as fear. Do you think that may be so?
Whatever it is, if you stop it within the three seconds, it will not develop into fear. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2008 : 11:35:09 PM
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After coming into NYC to see the Nrityagram Dance Ensemble (unbelievably beautiful classical indian dance, a surprisingly grounding experience, and they're about to tour the country, info at http://www.pentacle.org/default.asp?page=6 and radio interview -they're super-smart, at http://www.wnyc.org/shows/lopate/ep...gments/93744 and btw, Yogani, they're hitting Jacksonville), I found myself at the train station ten minutes early for my return to the island of darkness and doom. And I was craving a muffin. I'm trying not to eat after 8pm, and also hoping to lose some weight, but the muffins were calling out to me.
So I figured I'd try Shanti's trick. It was kind of puzzling to find a way to NOT think of a muffin....so that I could explore the build-up to the thought of a muffin, given that I was thinking about little else but muffins in the first place. But I thought for a minute about football, then returned to the thought of muffins, and stopped just before the thought reached fruition. Bliss. I then proceeded to let the thought go, ala samyama. Bliss. Nice.
Then I went and bought my muffin, and ate it. It was delicious. |
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2008 : 10:08:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Now bring up the thought in your mind and just before the thought forms.. STOP.. and stay in that gap. You will feel a lot of bliss and ecstasy.
I tried this with the individual breath instead of a thought, and it works the same way. Just before the in-breath is about to take place there is that gap. Also after each breath, and before each breath… |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 02:27:53 AM
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I've been exploring this a bit further and find it very interesting.
In one of the videos it explains thoughts like separate events and also links this to the breath.
inhale exhale inhale exhale inhale exhale
[___] [___] [___] [___] [___] [___]
Like Etherfish, I explored how to "not think" before and found that thinking seemed directly related to breathing. For me the easist way to stop thinking is to stop breathing.
If we take a few easy deep breaths to give the body plenty of oxygene and then stop breathing and thinking at the same time, it is relatively easy.
Seeing the above in the Shiva Sutras relating to inhale and exhale and the gap between was a real confirmation for me.
I was trying this whilst walking the past two nights and found as my breath slowed so did my pace of walking. When I suspended the breath my body stopped, I looked at some trees and just looked, with no identification, very beautiful.
This was very useful because I had started off the walk being a bit mindy, and so using this I was able to quickly go into stillness.
quote:
Shanti said: Louis, yes, it is a wonderful tool to overcome any kind of mind addictions. Something like the HALT technique.. but you don't have to distract yourself for 15-20 mins to overcome the craving.. just bring it up a few times and let it dissolve.. and its gone. Also, you will find that in a few days.. that mental habit will completely dissolve.. it does not came back at all. At least that is how it has worked for me. Once it dissolves.. it stays away. May take a few days to be completely gone, depending on how much hold the mental habit has on you, .. but every day the strength of the carvings reduce.
I have to experiment more with this but found that using the word "hunger" was a bit indirect. When I apply the usual HALT procedure (hungry-angry-lonely-tired) I would always come up with lonliness.
So "lonliness" is probably the word to use, not hunger.
I tried lonliness in my samyama this morning and both the pre-thought and the post-thought experiences were very strong.
Now that I have established this during samyama, after meditation, I think it will be easier to use it in the "kitchen".
Will let you know how it goes.
PS. Shweta, I will explain soon about another variation on samyama I have been using for a few months, which when incorporated with your method is very effective, for me at least. |
Edited by - Sparkle on Feb 24 2008 02:37:45 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 03:08:35 AM
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Ok, so just watch out for those breath suspensions if you are on the verge of overload... That's how this period of overdoing started for me! I speeds up the energies very, very intensively.
I have also come to understand that this is actually what we practice at my Ki-Aikido. The meditations are centred around doing these "gaps" between inhale and exhale to reach a no-mind state. It's a very well-known technique! |
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gentlep
USA
114 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 8:59:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Here's the entire video (so you don'thave to flip between bits and snatches on youtube):
http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.js...el=336103882
Thanks for the video. I found it very informative. "Depression 5 minutes ago has no relation to the one yesterday, the one couple of days ago or the one a month ago, We give it a continuity by connecting them and identifying with the shaft." Interesting.
I am not able to get Shanti's exercise as I can break a thought from forming completely only by shifting attention to something else and then come back to the previous thought. It doesn't give bliss. I guess it is only for those who can enter thoughtless state at will. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 01:54:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Here's the entire video (so you don'thave to flip between bits and snatches on youtube):
http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.js...el=336103882
Thanks for the video. I found it very informative. "Depression 5 minutes ago has no relation to the one yesterday, the one couple of days ago or the one a month ago, We give it a continuity by connecting them and identifying with the shaft." Interesting.
I am not able to get Shanti's exercise as I can break a thought from forming completely only by shifting attention to something else and then come back to the previous thought. It doesn't give bliss. I guess it is only for those who can enter thoughtless state at will.
Yes, that's it. That's how I was able to break away from the depression which haunted me for many years. It is only in my making a continuity that it exists. When it is seen that the feeling of a moment from a yesterday is just that, and has no reality to this moment, and truly doesn't even exist beyond a memory, then I find the gap that underlies my experience. And that gap is what I am. I am not "my experience", I am that on which the "my experience" happens. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 09:03:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gentlep
quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Here's the entire video (so you don'thave to flip between bits and snatches on youtube):
http://www.brightcove.tv/channel.js...el=336103882
Thanks for the video. I found it very informative. "Depression 5 minutes ago has no relation to the one yesterday, the one couple of days ago or the one a month ago, We give it a continuity by connecting them and identifying with the shaft." Interesting.
I am not able to get Shanti's exercise as I can break a thought from forming completely only by shifting attention to something else and then come back to the previous thought. It doesn't give bliss. I guess it is only for those who can enter thoughtless state at will.
Hi Gentlep,
I am really sorry for your depression and the hardships you are going thru. My heart goes out to you. It is not a fun place to be in. For years I was where you are with depression (and yes when in depression.. every moment is a part of the same depression.. it is hard to see how the depression at this moment is not the same as the one 5 min back and not the same as the one yesterday) and thoughts and active mind etc. I remember meditating the first time (not AYP) and I remember how thoughts showed up from everywhere.. there was no stopping them.. and like I said in my post above even a year back my thoughts were a non stop chatter.. I did not think there was such a thing as a gap. What helped? Meditation and Spinal breathing. That is all you need. Just keep doing it and you will see the gaps. They show up as slight cracks in the dense fog thru which you see sunlight. I know in the situation you are in now, it is hard to see any hopes of being out of this nightmare. All I can say is, you have taken a step in the right direction with meditation. Just remember, nothing in life is constant.. it is always changing and as long as we hold on to what we think our life should be, with dear life, we suffer. Accepting the fact that the only thing changeless in life is that it is constantly changing is what helped me get out of my depression. It was when I was mentally exhausted and stopped fighting and felt completely defeated.. did I get what surrender really was.
The technique above is not possible without a bit of inner silence. However there is another technique that will give you a glimpse into this and you can try it if you'd like. Please remember.. in yoga.. less is more.
It is along the lines of what Louis and LAMNN has said above with breathing. However.. please do not hold your breath.. No Kumbhaka (breath retention). Between the inhale and exhale there is a gap.. a gap where you can experience no thoughts. Slow down your breathing.. breath in slowly.. Stop.. breath out.. Stop.
Remember.. stop only for what feels natural.. No forcing the "no breath" time. So the period of "no breath" is maybe 2 or 3 secs or even less than that is fine. So breath in (belly breathing, not spinal breathing) and be in the silence of the gap for the 2-3 secs and then breath out and try to take the silence of the gap with you into the exhale.. and then "gap" (after the exhale and before the next inhale). If you cant take the silence of the gap with you into exhale.. don't worry.. as you keep going you will get better at it. Another way to do it is with walking.. slow walking.. take a step.. gap.. then next step. Try it (if you'd like) and let me know if it helps.
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Edited by - Shanti on Feb 26 2008 09:19:08 AM |
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 5:19:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
I have been following a technique for a few months...
(snip)
...Let me know of your experience if you do try it.
Hello Shanti
I was inspired by you and the teaching by Nityananda on the Shiva sutras, so I tried this “gap nap” and for me it works with both the breath, mantra and thought. Now, given the AYP teaching about the separate development of ecstasy and stillness, Shakti and Shiva practised separately as for example spinal breathing and deep meditation, I wonder how this experience should be classified. On one hand I can practise deep meditation and experience stillness by repeating a mantra, on the other hand this “gap nap” technique produces plenty of ecstasy while for example repeating a mantra. So one could argue that the deep meditation technique of repeating a mantra is no longer all about stillness, it is about ecstasy. And therefore the proper balance would be lost.
Since you have been experiencing this for some time now, what is your take on this?
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 07:48:49 AM
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Hi gentlepquote:
Thanks for the video. I found it very informative. "Depression 5 minutes ago has no relation to the one yesterday, the one couple of days ago or the one a month ago, We give it a continuity by connecting them and identifying with the shaft." Interesting.
I am not able to get Shanti's exercise as I can break a thought from forming completely only by shifting attention to something else and then come back to the previous thought. It doesn't give bliss. I guess it is only for those who can enter thoughtless state at will.
I just realised this morning the connection between what is being discussed here and something that happened me a while back with depression. I used to suffer a lot with depression, not so much now.
A while back I had some depression coming on. The way this affected me was that my energy would go and I would get very tired, very lethargic, everything was an effort. This was happening even though I had had enough rest.
I have been practicing AYP for over two years but prior to that and still now I also practice mindfulness.
When I recognised the symptoms as the onset of depression I went into mindfulness mode. Mindfulness is just the Buddhist word for present moment living.
As I went through my day I focused on my immediate surroundings, going down a stairs I would bring my attention to my foot touching the step, my attention would then shift to the banister and I would be aware of the feel of the wood on my hand as it slid down. I would also be aware of my internal body with the feeling of tirdness. My attention would then shift to the door I had to open, I would look at the door with wonder - ah a door!
And this process continued. As my attention shifted back and forth between one object and another I became aware, as it shifted to my body from time to time, that the tirdness was lessening and dissolving away.
As I said, it occured to me this morning that this process is what Shweta is describing with the thoughts and the gaps between the thoughts.
It was the inner silence developed through deep meditation and spinal breathing that allowed that to be so effective. By bringing my awareness fully to each thing that came into my mind and shifting from object to object like this, it was in effect hopping from one thought to another and leaving a gap inbetween. I didn't realise this untill now, that as the attention shifts from one object to another like this, that the gap is there in between.
This practice is something that can be practiced throughout the day without fear of overloading, so it is an ideal suppliment to the AYP practices practiced twice a day.
If you decide to try this you might find your breathing slowing down and how you move through the day slowing down. If you breath into your movements it helps further.
It is true, as evidenced by many accounts here, that the AYP practices on their own will bring you naturally to this way of being in the world, of present moment living. This comes however as a result of the development of deep inner silence.
The more we have going on in our lives, the more stresses and strains we have, the greater the task it is to surrender to the inner silence.
We can wait untill we reach breaking point where we have no choice but to "give up" or we can try and meet it on the way.
Consciously living in the present moment like this in combination with the deep meditation and spinal breathing is, in my view, a good way to tackle depression.
As you go about this "present moment living", what Shweta talked about with regard to the relaxed breath pause at the end of the exhalation and inhalation can be incorporated. Personally I find the breath pause at the end of exhalation more relaxing and more silent. Sometimes I pause for a second or two in the middle of the exhalation, if it feels right, this also works well.
Hope this helps
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Edited by - Sparkle on Feb 27 2008 07:59:04 AM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 11:59:20 AM
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Sparkle said:
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"By bringing my awareness fully to each thing that came into my mind and shifting from object to object like this, it was in effect hopping from one thought to another and leaving a gap in between. I didn't realise this untill now, that as the attention shifts from one object to another like this, that the gap is there in between."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll elaborate a bit on this from my experience. The "gap" is always "there". I don't see it so much now as in bringing my awareness fully to each thing, it's more like I see that awareness is the gap. The mind and its objects are the shifting and hopping.
If I experience depression it has something to do with consciousness of the mind and the objects rather than the gap. I can't seem to come up with a better explanation beyond that how it is for me. |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 27 2008 2:04:31 PM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 3:52:06 PM
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Depression is a natural form of samyama (the process), since the mind has hit a brick wall and the person experiences extreme sleepiness. This allows the thoughts to drop down into the unconscious and is a letting go of control - knowing that the mind is unable to handle a situation, so the unconscious solves the problem - The reason why so many enlightened individuals experienced depression before their awakening.
AYP takes a more balanced/healthy approach by letting a little water out of the dam at a time so that the person doesn't experience this extreme mental state by practicing dying or letting go of thoughts or outcome. The reason that this is an effective tool in relinquishing our need to control the uncontrollable and is a prerequisite to openings.
So if we look at depression in this way it's not such a bad thing, but it's better to do this consciously through samyama:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Feb 27 2008 5:31:18 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 5:02:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lookatmynavelnow
On one hand I can practise deep meditation and experience stillness by repeating a mantra, on the other hand this "gap nap" technique produces plenty of ecstasy while for example repeating a mantra. So one could argue that the deep meditation technique of repeating a mantra is no longer all about stillness, it is about ecstasy. And therefore the proper balance would be lost.
Since you have been experiencing this for some time now, what is your take on this?
Hi LAMNN,
Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Before I go any further let me just get one thing out of the way. Please leave 1hr in the day for spinal breathing and meditation 10+20+10+20. This time is for building the foundation on which everything else will unfold. Don't introduce anything other than the basic instructions given by Yogani in this one hour.. or if you follow some other meditation technique.. stick with it.. don't add the above technique intentionally to your pranayam and/or meditation routine.
Next, I would like to quote a post of Yogani's http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic...._ID=590#1603
quote:
The key to the ecstasy thing is in its refinement, which is analogous to purification of our nervous system, the awakening and refinement of ecstatic conductivity (also called kundalini), and introversion of sensory perception which is pratyahara. All of these are aspects of the same dynamic. As the neurological friction becomes less, the expression of ecstatic energy and our experience refines.
On the other hand, bliss is not a dynamic energy-related quality like ecstasy is. Bliss is an aspect of pure "bliss" consciousness, inner silence, which we cultivate (or reveal) in deep meditation. Inner silence does not "refine." Inner silence emerges when we dissolve inner obstructions to it. It is our own inner awareness. It is stillness. Bliss is a resident part of stillness.
So we have these two qualities -- bliss and ecstasy. One is a fixed compass (our awareness) we reveal as inner silence in deep meditation. The other is a dynamic evolution of energy flowing through our nervous system. As ecstasy (energy movement) refines, it comes to reside in silence, or bliss. Then we have "ecstatic bliss," which is a new dynamic in us that brings a "rebirth." It is the joining of "emptiness and euphoria," as Lahiri Mahasaya called it. It is also the joining of "Shiva and Shakti" as Yoga and Tantra call it. And it is the joining of "Father and Holy Spirit," as the Christians call it. The product of this joining is the Jivan Mukti (liberated soul) or Christ, which manifests as the expansion of outpouring divine love. We all know that when we see it, and it is more than enough of a miracle to see in this world. In fact, outpouring divine love brings the miracles with it, and that is the real meaning of miracles.
All of this terminology is to describe a real neuro-biological transformation that we who are doing yoga practices are witnessing at our own particular stage, and describing accordingly. The new AYP book "Deep Meditation" goes into this as well, because I think it is important even for beginning meditators to understand the difference between the qualities of inner silence, the role of energy (ecstatic or not) in navigating the overall purification process, and what the ultimate joining of these two aspects of our nature deep within us is about.
Some may see stillness and energy as mutually exclusive, and paths that attempt to integrate these two aspects of our nature as conflicted. To that, we can only say that the human nervous system operates in a certain way as it evolves spiritually, and all paths are but a reflection of that to greater or lesser degree. The addressing of polarity (silence and energy) found in spiritual paths is there because the polarity is there in nature -- in all of nature, from our human functioning and spiritual mechanics, right down to the inner workings of matter itself. So, to exclude the polarity aspect on our path, whether it be excluding inner silence or ecstatic energy, is to exclude a vital aspect of ourselves.
Having said all that, I recommend that inner silence be given the first priority, as it is the ground state and source of all energy. Yet, once we have inner silence, the witness, we will not find completion until our ecstatic energy function has been refined to marry inner silence, so we can move on to the unity stage, which is outpouring divine love. That's why the sequence of practices in AYP is the way it is -- inner silence first, and all the ecstatic energy development and refinement after that.
I would also like to quote this from Yogani's lesson : http://www.aypsite.org/204.html
quote:
The fundamental principles of human spiritual transformation are simple enough, and we have touched on them often in the lessons, discussing from many different angles. There are five of them:
FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES
1. Attraction – To truth and/or God, expressed as desire – It is Love.
2. Purification and opening – A process every human nervous system is naturally inclined to go through.
3. Inner silence – Pure bliss consciousness, our native state that shines though our nervous system as purification and opening occur.
4. Ecstasy – Experienced when our nervous system is stimulated by the awakening our inner life-force.
5. Union – our transformation to a permanent state of compassionate unity, the fruition of the merging of our inner silence and ecstasy – It is Love.
He goes on to describe the natural ability of every human.. and I wont quote them all, you can read it in the lesson but #15 says:
quote:
15. The ability of inner silence and ecstatic energy to merge and be sustained as one self-conscious presence in our nervous system. This is experienced as ecstatic bliss. This we come to know as the expression of our Self.
So the natural thing that will arise from continuing with meditation and spinal breathing is the joining of the bliss/silence (Shiva) cultivated in meditation with ecstasy (shakti) cultivated in spinal breathing. As we continue with our practices, "ecstatic bliss" will become a part of us 24/7 including our meditation. Then meditation will be like being alive on the inside. It's like you are in deep meditation and yet you are completely aware and awake inside. This is fine as long as it is happening naturally.. don't force it by introducing anything into your deep meditation practice.
As you have said above you can do this with your breath, mantra and thought. If you can do this with your thought.. you don't need to practice it with your breath.. doing it with your breath is what you need to do when you cannot access the gaps in your thoughts... doing it with thoughts is a more advanced (although you can continue doing it with your breath if you'd like). Work on it with your thought through the day.. every time you remember take yourself into the bliss and take this bliss into your activity... operate from this bliss.
If you'd like to try something else.. do this technique with sight. Focus on an object.. then slowly get that object out of your focus and focus on something else... the point when neither of the objects are in focus you should feel the bliss. I am not good at this as yet.. there are few times I have felt the bliss in this.. but in general I am too conditioned to focus on the object and it is hard to capture the gap between the focus on the 2 objects.. like it was hard to find the gap between 2 thoughts . The other thing to try is keeping part awareness on yourself no matter what else you are doing. So if you are reading this post or typing a reply to this post.. you will find yourself completely focused on that task.. but consciously bring part of the focus into yourself. Finally you should be able to live in that awareness.. the gap.. all the time.. while you are completely engaged in this world. These are just tools we use between our practice session to cultivate the habit of accessing the bliss and staying in it for as long as we can. Some people are lucky to wake up and be in this place.. some of us have to practice unlearning living externally and learn to live in the internal bliss once we have access to some .
Again, please remember, no forcing anything. Just practice what feels comfortable. In the end I think all of this happens naturally.. we are just kinda nudging ourselves slightly towards it.. So be patient and gentle.. no need to force or rush or get yourself frustrated with any of these techniques. If you are ready for it.. and you try it.. it will feel natural.. in that case just continue practicing it so it becomes a habit. If it does not seem natural.. let it go and come back to it later |
Edited by - Shanti on Feb 27 2008 5:05:36 PM |
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Something to try...
