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crouch55
USA
6 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 13 2008 : 2:25:03 PM
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I have made a study of numerous personal enlightenment testimonies, but am haunted by the lack of mention or description of individual soul. The literature on spiritual channeling,out-of-body journeys, and Near Death Experiences abound with descriptions of souls, Higher Selves, and Soul Groups which seem to have many independent activities of their own. Yet, these hardly mentioned at all in the Enlightenment teachings and literature.
Any insights will be greatly appreciated. Thanks - crouch55. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 06:40:31 AM
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In many buddhist teachings (and in many yogic streams)
you find the teaching of "getting rid of the ego" which
is then misunderstood as destroying the ego, reaching nirwana,
forgetting the self, etc.
Chain this with the western christian teaching that you have
to sacrifice yourself and that the flesh is evil, and that
selfishness should be overcome, then it is of no surprise
that there are few acknowledgements of the Self.
However - times are changing, and if you search you can find
a lot of writings about the Higher Self.
Which Enlightenment teachings are you refering to ?
It would be surprising to me if they don't mention and
acknowledge the soul and Higher Self.
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crouch55
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 12:16:01 PM
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Wolfgang,
Thank you for your reply. I looked in detail at about 135 enlightenment testimonies from many different spiritul paths and religions (and some who had no affiliations). To the best of my memory, soul was mentioned only twice in the 135 testimonies and Higher Self not at all {except for the enlightenment experiences that happened during Near-Death Experiences}. Do you know of some enlightenment experiences that include insights about soul, soul groups, and Higher Selves?
Sincerely,
crouch55 (Don Crouch)
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 1:29:13 PM
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Hi Crouch55, and welcome!
You might find this post on soul evolution interesting, and the referenced book: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=1261#19744
The book (The Solar System, by AE Powell) goes into detail on the evolution (individuation and expansion) of consciousness through the mineral, plant, animal, human and celestial kingdoms.
In AYP, while we don't use the term "Higher Self" often (try a forum search), it is inherent in many other terms we use in the writings: inner silence, the witness, Self (big "S"), Silent Self, Being, pure bliss consciousness, etc. As far as "soul" is concerned, it is the individuation of Higher Self, which survives the advent of the enlightened condition. While we are still in the body, even the personality and ego can be said to survive, in divinely illuminated ways. This is discussed in the new Self-Inquiry book.
I presume that you are interested in "the thing itself," rather than specific terminology. Depending on culture and religion, sages have used many terminologies to describe the identical condition -- which is the end result of the process of human spiritual transformation, cultivated by the application of effective spiritual practices.
Some just call it "That," which can also be translated to mean "Higher Self." No matter what name we give, it is the same condition/experience across all the traditions, revealed by the inherent, ever-present, and remarkable spiritual capabilities of the human nervous system.
BTW, Ralph Waldo Emerson, one of the first prominent Americans to study eastern philosophy, called it the "Oversoul."
A rose is still a rose when called by any other name. 
All the best!
The guru (Higher Self) is in you.
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Jan 14 2008 : 11:23:52 PM
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'Tis the white cave in the geode's center.
The geode is illusion.
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 04:03:28 AM
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Hi Don Crouch,
Yogani saved me answering, it really is only about words/terminology,
but the Higher Self is a very interesting subject for me 
the guru is in each one of us |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 08:00:47 AM
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"As far as "soul" is concerned, it is the individuation of Higher Self, which survives the advent of the enlightened condition. While we are still in the body, even the personality and ego can be said to survive, in divinely illuminated ways. This is discussed in the new Self-Inquiry book."
Well, now, isn't that good news! Looking forward to reading that book! I was struggling with this in the 'Non-duality-multiplicity'-thread and now it comes more and more passages describing this mystery... Lovely! I absorb and enjoy!  |
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crouch55
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 8:46:08 PM
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To All:
Thanks for your inputs. I guess what I was driving at is there's a large body of literature suggesting there are divine entities of identity within the one Self involved in many multidimensional activiites in other universes, including parallel and probable universes. Also, that our aptitudes and the conditions for our physical lives are planned in great detail (including agreements with other souls/entities). Yet, these entities (beyond the ego/personality and identifiable within the Self) are missing from the enlightenment experiences.
To make it a little more concrete, once when I asked in meditation what happened to an enlightened soul after death, I was shown a busload of people sharing their experiences. It seems to me there's a large body of enlightenment literature (but not all) that suggests the discrete soul or spirit eventually disappears after death, but the channelers, NDEs, and OOB journeyers indicate that the individual soul (at some level of multidimensinal consciousness) is eternal.
In summary, it seems strange to me that this supposedly very active world of soul and multidimensional universes is missing from enlightenment experiences.
As usual, any inputs are very welcome.
Crouch55 from sunny Cal 
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 11:46:37 PM
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Hey there sunny Cal. Lucky you!
Death is a misunderstanding of what it means to die or to be born again for that matter. Death is a myth.
A child playing peek-a-boo is over joyed when her mother's face reappears from behind her hands. Almost as if by magic! Boo! LOL. The child begins to see the world in a whole new way and begins to realize that objects don't really disappear (die), but it was the child's awareness that suddenly changed (or was reborn). Literal thinking was replaced by abstract thinking.
This same child further develops association, or abstraction, as she realizes that her mother may be a part of a family, a community, a society, et al. Selfishness is then replaced by awareness, as the child begins to realize that the world does not center around her... So, again, the child dies to her old way of thinking and is reborn with a new awareness.
This process is reversed when someone begins their journey on the spiritual path of unfoldment. You become as if you are a child again. And, through practices, meditation, et al, one is breathed new life and begins to develop, almost as if in a womb, until they are reborn through the process of self-inquiry or what other traditions call contemplation/introspection.
With the outcome of self-inquiry the world disappears, just like the child's perception when her mother covers her face with her hands. It's almost like magic or a dream. But where did the world go? This is what the spiritual child experiences through the process of unfoldment/unknowing. The world is new, it's blissful, exciting, et al. But as the child grows and her mother uncovers her face, the child begins to see a whole new world that never went anywhere in the first place. Again, the mother covers her face, the child doubts/suffers/is upset, wonders if she has disappeared(but where did she go??? LOLOL), but when the loving parent (Self in others) uncovers her face, the child is filled with joy... and so on and so on...
So, again, the child continually dies to her old way of percieving things and begins the process of abstraction or reassociation with the world on a completely different level... until the child's awareness moves from that of doubt to faith by way of reassurance which leads to further awareness... until the child reaches spiritual maturity.
My pennies worth:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Jan 16 2008 12:11:49 AM |
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Black Rebel Radio
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 08:26:56 AM
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Awesome post Vil! Thanks!
Mac |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 10:30:35 AM
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Hey, mac, thank you for your reply. I was thinking about what you said and I felt good about it:  while I was cooking eggs this morning. My roommate just got home from work and we were talking, she was unloading groceries and showed me that she bought one of those laser pointers. (You know the ones that people use at lectures, with the little red dot to point at a thing, to teach people). Anyway, she bought it for her dog who loves to chase it around the apartment, as she watches in delight. So, while I was wrapt in myself, cooking, thinking of how great my post was, she suddenly turned to me and snapped me out of myself and said in a loud boisterous voice, "Look at him running around searching for that light! He just loves it! But he doesn't realize that it comes from me!LOLOLOL".
So most of the time I am a dog chasing after that light and when inspiration comes it's important to realize that it was greater than I am. And to realize who is holding that light. Kind of like the old adage of a young fish asking another fish what is this thing called ocean and the wiser fish says to the younger fish you're swimming in it. But the inexperienced fish says, but this is just water.
Take care:
VIL |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 12:10:20 PM
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Hi crouch,
Check out Yogi Ramacharaka. He will answer alot of your questions. 14 Lessons in Yogi Philosophy and Advanced Course in Yogi Philosophy.
There is another one that goes into great detail about this. I don't recall the name off the top of my head but I will post it as soon as I have it for you.
Best, yb.
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 16 2008 : 12:51:00 PM
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| Another good book is "psychology, religion and spirituality" by David Fontana. It is mainly psychology based but the author is predisposed towards spirituality. |
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crouch55
USA
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 1:00:07 PM
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To All:
Once again, thank you all for your inputs. And I am looking up the references that were given in the postings. Sorry to be so slow in responding, but the inside of my house is undergoing a much needed painting and I'm keeping very solidly grounded moving furniture, pictures, towel racks,curtains, and books out of the rooms to be painted.
I still feel there's one issue we haven't hit straight on the head: When we are "awakened" via enlightenment-oriented meditation, etc., why aren't we also awakened to an awareness of soul's evolutionary activities? Could it be there's both vertical and horizontal awakenings, and that the focus (beliefs???) associated with the enlightenment goal keep us channeled toward the vertical awakening? (I believe the source of this nagging is that I received my spiritual teething on the Seth and Robert Monroe books, and they point to a very active, multidimensinal spiritual reality generally left out of the enlightenment experiences.) Once again, your ideas are greatly appreciated.
Crouch55 from windy SoCal 
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jan 17 2008 : 9:41:31 PM
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Hi crouch,
It is The Life Beyond Death by Yogi Ramacharaka.
He goes into great depth with regards to your questions.
Best, yb. |
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thimus
53 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 05:04:32 AM
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First line from the Tao Teh King : The Tao that can be trodden is not the enduring and unchanging Tao. The name that can be named is not the enduring and unchanging name.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 18 2008 : 08:07:13 AM
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"Fashioned from the earth we are souls in clay form. We need to remain in rhythm with our inner clay voice and longing. Yet this voice is no longer audible in the modern world. We are not even aware of our loss, consequently, the pain of our spiritual exile is more intense in being largely unintelligible"
"Your body knows you very intimately; it is aware of your whole spirit and soul life. Far sooner than your mind, your body knows how privileged it is to be here"
From Anam Cara by John O'Donohue an Irishman who died 3rd January 2008 at age 53. (Anam is gaelic for Soul and Cara is friend)
Anam Cara |
Edited by - Sparkle on Jan 18 2008 08:09:35 AM |
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ajna
India
59 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 07:19:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by crouch55
I have made a study of numerous personal enlightenment testimonies, but am haunted by the lack of mention or description of individual soul. The literature on spiritual channeling,out-of-body journeys, and Near Death Experiences abound with descriptions of souls, Higher Selves, and Soul Groups which seem to have many independent activities of their own. Yet, these hardly mentioned at all in the Enlightenment teachings and literature.
Any insights will be greatly appreciated. Thanks - crouch55.
Some Buddhists believe the soul enters the foetus through pineal gland exactly after 49 days into pregnancy. No wonder pineal gland is the door to non-physical realms
http://www.dedroidify.com/pinealgland.htm |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 10:34:15 AM
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I heard somewhere that sometimes a baby is born in the womb and can die but another soul can use that body so it gets born through that body before birth. Perhaps this is what you mean?
As far as my understanding about things go, the life force is present as the soul mainly in the medulla. If the medulla is injured the soul immediately leaves the body. |
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ajna
India
59 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2008 : 12:08:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I heard somewhere that sometimes a baby is born in the womb and can die but another soul can use that body so it gets born through that body before birth. Perhaps this is what you mean?
As far as my understanding about things go, the life force is present as the soul mainly in the medulla. If the medulla is injured the soul immediately leaves the body.
Iam not sure about the re-use of the body by another soul. This 49 days funda is described in the famous "Tibetian book of the dead"
Regards |
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Where is Soul and/or Higher Self?
