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presence
11 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 08:40:40 AM
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I have done a search on depression in the forum to see if any had mentioned meditation causing depressed state. Cant find any. It surprize me, as the investigation on the effects of transcendental meditation (not those who were conducted by the TM movement of course) shows that quite a large amount of practitioners shows increased depression, anxiety, dissociation etc... (easy to find on the web, f.ex: type trancenet.net in the URL, and go to "research" on that site)
When, inspired by the ayp-site, I started using my mantra half a year ago, after having not used it for 10 years, I wondered what had made me stop. My usual morning grumpyness was gone, after meditating I was allert and energetic, and I felt blissfull peace inside.
During the last month, before I stopped again, I felt depressed after meditating. Not sad, but with less energy, less clear, more negative thoughts and feelings. Soon aften noticing these (old familiar) sypmptoms, I went down to 10 minuttes once a day. But I soon had to conclude that I was better of quiting it totally. Maybe I give it a try again in some month, maybe not. Looking back, mantra meditation have had this adverse effect on me periodically during all the years I´ve used it. But at that time, I was, like anybody else, told by TM teachers that it was due to "unstressing", as if what happened was a good thing in the long run. I definitely dont think so nomore. On the other hand, mindfulness meditation always improves my mood, and this is BTW in accordance with scientific studies, where mindfulness is shown to be helpful preventing depressive episodes. |
Edited by - presence on Aug 19 2007 12:58:39 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 09:12:27 AM
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Hi Presence,
Although I don't follow the AYP practices I believe there are good reasons to follow Yogani's advice on self pacing.I practised TM in the mid 70's and found that immediately from my first meditation that I entered samadhi with ease.This lasted for about 2 weeks before I experienced severe cleansing and depression that you speak of.The problem I found with TM was that 1)there was little or no support,2)the people who were meant to be supporting me had very limited knowledge of what they were teaching.
I think you also have to look at the differences between AYP and TM.
TM is simply what it says, MEDITATION.
AYP is YOGA which is not simply meditation but a way of life to reach enlightenment.
The true essence of yoga is much more than simply TM which was presented scientifically to make it more acceptable to the West(although the Beatles probably helped it's popularity more than any other way possible).With AYP or other systems we can eliminate certain practices while using other tools to continue to make progress.It's all about finding balance in our practices and our lives.You also talk of your mantra, maybe you need to change mantras?
L&L
Dave |
Edited by - riptiz on Aug 19 2007 12:32:48 PM |
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presence
11 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 10:05:46 AM
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Hi Riptiz.
Its a great improvement that AYP gives so much importance to "self pacing". And offering the possibility of eliminating f.ex. the mantra part if adverse effects are experienced, however I have only read about cautions when experiencing too much energy, and I know about people, like myself, having the opposite experience - loss of energy. I think it is important to be aware of this too, as maybe this is more common side effect? It seems like - again referring to the scientific studies (trancenet.net)
Perhaps another mantra would help, but I dont know where to look that mantra up :-)
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Edited by - presence on Aug 19 2007 1:00:25 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2007 : 10:19:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by presence
BTW, the links in included in my last post got damaged in some way. Just type trancenet.net in the URL, and go to "research" on that site.
Presence, you can edit your own post and fix the link in your above post. Just click the little paper and pencil icon.
Thanks. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2007 : 12:29:32 AM
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| I think negative emotions can be the result of either increased awarenes into the Shadow Self...or more likely it can be negative feelings and energy emerging to the surface as a result of purification. I've always had anger and depression probllems and I certainly went through some cranky times in the begining of my practices. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2007 : 09:07:39 AM
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Hi presence
I have practiced mindfulness meditation for a long time and still do. The AYP practices however are my main daily meditation practice and I use mindfulness throughout my day in the beautiful way that this can be experienced.
I found the AYP system more powerful and more consistant in its results.
My experience is that any meditation can cause adverse effects, depending on the person. For me it was also depression.
A note of caution however is that even mindfulness meditation can appear to alleviate depression by producing a nice peaceful feeling free of worry. This can be a short term experience however, in fact the meditation can be bringing you deeper into the depression with a delayed reaction combined with temporary relief. This is a potentially hazardous situation and if one is very diligent with practices can lead to a lot of unnessary pain.
Self pacing, and the self awareness that goes with this, is the key. The AYP practices are more powerful and it might be enough for you to practice for only 5 or 10 minutes twice per day to get you into the zone where you are both purifying and stable at the same time.
Also make sure you are not putting any attention on the crown and be sure to get the rest period after the meditation.
Cheers, Louis
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Edited by - Sparkle on Aug 20 2007 09:11:27 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 20 2007 : 10:13:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by presence
During the last month, before I stopped again, I felt depressed after meditating. Not sad, but with less energy, less clear, more negative thoughts and feelings.
Hi Presence,
These feelings are purification. And yes.. self pacing.. which you said you did..
quote:
Originally posted by presence
Soon aften noticing these (old familiar) sypmptoms, I went down to 10 minuttes once a day.
... is one of the things that will help.
The other thing that causes this state is the lack of rest after meditation. After your practice, you need to include 5 or 10 mins of rest. If required fall asleep. But the rest will make a huge difference in how you feel after your meditation.
quote:
Originally posted by presence
On the other hand, mindfulness meditation always improves my mood, and this is BTW in accordance with scientific studies, where mindfulness is shown to be helpful preventing depressive episodes.
If this works for you.. stick to it. The different kinds of meditation and practices are all just road maps that lead us to the same destination.. self.
Wish you all the best.
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presence
11 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2007 : 08:30:48 AM
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I dont think everything bad that accompanies mantra meditation is purification. I used to think that in old days, thinking "wau! I am really purifying myself these days!"
Louis, I have never met or heard about anybody having delayed reactions to mindfulness, I know that it can trigger a relapse in some people suffering from major depression, but I dont think that is caused by delayed reactions, but an "immediate" reaction to being confronted with heayy thoughts and emotions. And I would guess that what they do is succumbing into this mental activity, instead of staying mindful of it, but that is only a guess. Most people with depression gets fewer relapses doing mindfulness practise, studies has confirmed that (real studies, not studies made by people who sell courses in meditation, like the original TM research).
Meditation like AYP or TM (the mantra part of YAP) can have a side effect called "dissociation". By this is meant a condition where it is diffucult to stay present, one feels spacey,fuzzy, disoriented,
My own experience and experiences of other people that I have known during the last 30 years confirms that mantra meditation can easely have this effect.
What we like to experience in our meditation is that nice, almost euphoric peace and joy. And if we then experience uncomfort instead, there will be a (natural) tendency to search for the lovely bliss ("there should not be this heavy feeling, I will keep on meditating so that bliss will come"). This tendency to attach to the joy and try to step away from pain is the source of the dissociation, the disconnection from the body, maybe just momentary or maybe as a more cronic state, where one does not feel very present, but somewhat fuzzy.
(Its part of the instruction not to expect or search for pleasant feelings, but its very difficult (impossible?) not to do so. I remember Maharishi said that TM itself worked because of the tendency of the mind to search for greater and greater pleasure. )
I was experiencing periods like this for many years, without being able to get any explanation or advice from the tm-movement. Dissociation is not part of their vocabolary, although research have shown that a huge amout of meditators have problems with it (see link in former post).
I am still not doing any mantra meditation, in the mornings I feel a kind of "craving". Instead I sit down and sort of meditate on this craving. Allow it to be there, without getting absorbed or identified with it. I realize that the craving for experiences that mantra meditation can give, is very much like the craving for a drug (which I dont have very much experience with). Its like the need to shut the whole world out and rest in peace with nice sensations in the body. It could very well be this desire that drives the adverse effects I am talking about. Its important to notice that this desire is not a conscious desire that I hold on to. It just is there, like the desire for sweeds or anything else.
The tendency to dissociate seems very close to a state of apathy. I am spending my morning meditation time being aware of what IS. And what IS when I close my eyes is a strung pull to get into a soothing mantra meditation,...forget about it all, drift away... Its almost like Gollum from Lord of the Rings talking about his precious ring. Its a wish to have the mantra wash the lurking pain away. And sometimes it would work that way. sometimes it would be like an inner shower and afterwards I would have (or rather be) pure consciousness and feeling pleasure in all my body. And other times it would be like spraying the room with perfume to cover the dirty smell. I have talked to many former meditators who explained that they had the experience of more and more retiring into a state of inner peace, that was very easely disturbed by outer circumstances.
So instead of giving in to the urge of using the mantra I witness what happens inside. Initially its not comfortable of course, but if I then allow myself to gently "dive in" to the state/feeling, saying "yes" to what is, instead of wanting to change it, or replace it with a mantra trance, then it begins to loosen up. I have practiced this kind of "allowing" since I came upon Tolle, but never in relation to this addiction to meditate (medicate). I *love* to start my day with mantra meditation, as Im not the kind of person who jumps out of bed full of energy, but rather have a centain resitance to life in the mornings. So coming out of sleep, take a shower and then go into mantra land is really my trip. And sometimes its really refreshing. And sometimes it leaves me in a state that I would call dissociated. I am not quite there, I am in apathy. Maybe if a hypnotizer snapped his fingers, "wake up!", it would help.
Not trying to escape into "meditation", but instead *inviting* what is and inquire into the desire to meditate, is like a major breakthough for me. I can move though the apathy, it disolves, and I feel totally alive and "in the now".
Mantra meditation can very easely be a strategy to escape uncomfortable feelings. Its a nice 20 minuttes retirement from the daily life and all the feelings that comes with it - and this is not going for unity but separation. Sometimes this can turn into greater unity with the world after the meditation, but in itself it is seeking separation (as a means to unity maybe). This seems very appropriate for type A people (action addicts), who has a tendency to resist having attention inside. Mantra meditation might be the only way of meditating that they can deal with. There are some people that I would never advise to use a mantra. |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2007 : 11:04:25 AM
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I think I know what you mean by the dissociative symptoms. I had experimented with mushrooms once and had a horrifying experience and suffered periods of nearly crippling depersonalization or ego-death for months. This was before I encountered yoga and I didn't know what to do about it, I thought I was becoming schizophrenic. I looked a lot into it and found the use of the words "depersonalization" "cosmic lonliness" "ego death" more common and realized them to be a rite of passage for some. The opening of the mind for some people is bound to both be a joyous and uncomfortable experience at once. I think of it in terms of The Matrix when Morpheus says of the people still in the Matrix (ie Maya...the Illusion of Reality) "Most people are not ready to be unplugged." Not to say we are not ready, but I think some people are more ready than others. Perhaps it is a difference in karma or past lives. I read something onetime of an account of "cosmic lonliness" where someone said that when you experience these moments of existential depression you are experiencing the lonliness and angst of Brahman - that is knowing that you ARE what IS. Yeah, that can be a soothing thought...but also kind of terrifying to a mere ego who clings to notions of This and That, ying and yang, and especially Life and Death.
You are not too clear to me on what you mean by depression, but I assume it is of the existential sort. It made me feel sometimes like I had done something to myself and almost longed for the state of "ignorance" i used to be in, the old saying "ignorance is bliss"...but you could almost say "ignorance is LACK of Bliss". I have had depersonalizing moments where I would feel the whole atempt at Yoga and such is just a grand scheme to try to escape the "reality" of what my existential angst was trying to tell me - that nothing really matters, everything is an illusion, blah blah blah...but really, I try to look at Yoga as a mechanism for smoothing out and integrating these insights. In The Matrix, when Neo takes the blue pill and transcends the Matrix, or Maya - the illusion that is reality - he seems to adjust fairly well and thinks it is "cool"...but the fact is it would severely disturb someone. Our Bakti tells us that there is more out there, more to ourselves and sometimes this leads us to believe that since there is "more out there" than "this" is somewhat meaningless...and then when we do get closer to "there" we get disturbed. This is what would happen to me during my experiments with hallucinogenics. Yoga is a much more managable way to realize the Truth without going too fast for some people and blowing your ego to pieces too early and prematurely. |
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SuperTrouper
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2007 : 7:40:28 PM
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There've been a few periods during practicing yoga meditation where I've hit black moods. Layers of just terrible emotions in my personality -- depression, irritation, feelings of extremely lonely solitude, rage and anger, indifference, boredom with everything in life. But I didn't view the cause of something external, like my meditation practice, I sensed it as coming from my own self. As if it was there all along and I was just now starting to notice these feelings I'd been masking with daily fun or entertainment. Worldliness, really. But I persisted, because I had faith that these, like all the other phenomena I'd experienced in during/after meditation, were just phases that had to be passed through. And each time I finally reach the other side of these moods, the other side was more beatific and sublime than the previous good meditation states I'd experienced.
I have practiced many, many forms of meditation over the last several years and definitely settled on kriya. But the period in which I practiced japa for several months, attempting to practice unceasingly throughout the day, were absolutely the most revealing of my meditation practices. I experienced at first a lonely depression, and then irritation with everyone and any of my personal indulgence with my senses, once I overcame those layers of feelings and had more control, the mantra became subtler and my perception also became subtler. It became cyclical upon itself and quickly I reached deeper states that I'd ever had (or have yet to this day), beginning to hear the internal sounds after a period when the mantra became so subtle that it seemed to disappear and I was left with a mental sign of the mantra instead of the mental sound. I also began to experience intense devotion and a delightful, intense love and compassion that spread over everyone and everything. I lost that state (whatever it was) because I wasn't careful and my skillfully applied effort had slackened. I've tried a couple times since then, and I've had to go through those same terrible emotions... but I never seem to make it through anymore... I am just not wanting to sustain that kind of intensity. So, I believe the negative emotions must be experienced, as it's the fascade of ego which is being transmigrated through (that's what I feel, anyways).
Every meditation, even with slight modifications, yields different effects. And the effects can differ somewhat even amongst different individuals. Find what works best for you out of all the available techniques and stick with it. That's probably the best advice that can be given, and seems to be what AYP is all about. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Sep 02 2007 : 9:07:52 PM
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AYP meditation doesn't seem to cause depression. We have lots of practitioners exchanging notes here, and it doesn't come up. AYP is a little unusual, with its mantra not tied to breath, and it's a lot more stripped down and distilled than other systems. You may have been inspired by AYP, but you seem to have been practicing a different method. And I can't speak to issues with other methods.
That said.....if you are ALREADY depressed (or tend strongly to depression), you should not meditate (AYP or otherwise), because it will make it worse. BKS Iyengar very adamantly discourages depressives from meditating. The introspection feeds the problem (depressives need to extrovert, not introvert). I've posted this a number of times...surprised it didn't come up in your search!
I had a bad few years where depression and anxiety made it impossible for me to practice, and I knew that if I tried, results would be very bad. So, instead, I launched a very avid asana practice (90 mins/day, lots of classes and workshops), and after 3 years of that my energy was adjusted, my depression and anxiety were under control, and I was ok to meditate. This is actually the classical role of asana: to straighten you out so you can meditate. Asana can be thought of as doing coarse adjustment of the same mechanisms meditation finely adjusts. Anyway, it worked. My meditation has been extremely conducive ever since. In fact, I've more than made up for the lost time, because I was primed from all the asana.
So you may want to try doing strict AYP meditation and see what happens...and if depression returns, dive into asana work for a while. That's what I'd do in your shoes. Good luck no matter what!
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Sep 03 2007 09:51:19 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Sep 03 2007 : 4:09:12 PM
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Hi presence
quote:
Most people with depression gets fewer relapses doing mindfulness practise,
I would agree with this, however I would make a distinction between mindfulness meditation and mindfulness practice in daily living.
I can testify that mindfulness practice during the day has banished depression for me on several occasions. The depression however was not severe.
Not sure about the mindfulness meditation though. This is a different experience for me, more deep and a distinct feeling of presence. The breathing associated with this meditation, in my view, must cause kundalini to be activated to some degree, although not in such a specific way as in the AYP practices.
The meditation focuses usually on the inner whilst the practice in daily living on the outer.
It would appear, from what you say, that your main requirement at the moment is to get past the depression.
What Jim says makes sense to me although I think that the outward expression of mindfulness practice throughout the day would also help. I think this is where most of the research is done, by Jon Kabut Zinn and other's like him.
For what it's worth, the symptoms you describe:
quote:
spacey,fuzzy, disoriented...........
The tendency to dissociate seems very close to a state of apathy.......And sometimes its really refreshing. And sometimes it leaves me in a state that I would call dissociated. I am not quite there, I am in apathy. Maybe if a hypnotizer snapped his fingers, "wake up!", it would help
These look like symptoms of overdoing to me, I have had all of them whilst practicing AYP. It felt like I needed clarity. With the system of self pacing it disappeared and was replaced with clarity.
One of the main reasons for me was the use of the sutra "love" with samyama. I got a bit hooked on using "love" only. So beautiful but I would sit on the couch and not feel like doing anything but just sit there and enjoy, a bit like apathy. Once I realised this and used the balance of all the sutras I was ok. That's just an example.
From what you say it seems that you were using TM (a system I have no experience with) from what Dave(riptiz) says they don't use self pacing.
Jim recommends in another thread the use of a device whilst lying on one's back to bring the shoulders back and push the chest out (at least that is how I remember it)
This resonates for me because I find this happening naturally as my heart opens more, it feels like I what to push my heart forward and out and this seems to compliment opening of the heart, just a theory. I don't think it would be possible to be depressed and have one's heart open at the same time.
Thanks for the dialogue between AYP and mindfulness, it is something I am very interest in myself.
Please keep us posted on how you are getting on
Louis
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 08 2007 : 5:02:17 PM
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Presence said:
I dont think everything bad that accompanies mantra meditation is purification. I used to think that in old days, thinking "wau! I am really purifying myself these days!"
Yes, I'd tend to agree. I also don't rule out that mantra yoga is just not suitable for some people.
I see mantra-meditation as more like a general-purpose statistically powerful practice, doing for the mind/spirit what asanas do for the body. But no-one presents asanas as good and appropriate for everyone. A considerable number of people have conditions (like scoliosis) which make certain asanas inappropriate for them. The same thing is surely true for mantra meditation. Just exactly what those mind conditions are that make mantra-meditation inappropriate is unknown at this point.
One more thing Presence, while it's true that a negative effect doesn't necessarily imply purification, a single negative effect isn't necessarily a reason to give meditation up. It all has to be weighed in each individual case, the good against the bad. What in life doesn't present some negative effects? A job? A partner? A move of location? Also, while negative effects are not necessarily purification, some of them eventually just pass on their own.
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Darko
21 Posts |
Posted - Sep 10 2007 : 6:24:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by presence
Meditation like AYP or TM (the mantra part of YAP) can have a side effect called "dissociation". By this is meant a condition where it is diffucult to stay present, one feels spacey,fuzzy, disoriented,
My own experience and experiences of other people that I have known during the last 30 years confirms that mantra meditation can easely have this effect.
What we like to experience in our meditation is that nice, almost euphoric peace and joy. And if we then experience uncomfort instead, there will be a (natural) tendency to search for the lovely bliss ("there should not be this heavy feeling, I will keep on meditating so that bliss will come"). This tendency to attach to the joy and try to step away from pain is the source of the dissociation, the disconnection from the body, maybe just momentary or maybe as a more cronic state, where one does not feel very present, but somewhat fuzzy.
Belly breathing removes dissociation in 5 to 10 minutes. Relaxed belly breathing (diaphragmatic) increases the willingness to experience "that what is", even if it is pain or discomfort. That is why Tao-Masters teach to start and end every meditation in the lower "Dantien" (belly, hara, navel-center, etc...). By this means you can ground yourself deep in the body and go sure not to run away from unwanted thoughts and emotions but to feel "thru" it. To stay here and now, in the present moment. Shallow chest-breathing has exactly the opposite effect.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2007 : 10:11:06 AM
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Thanks Darko, that's a good one. I could have used that many years ago. Not that it's too late. It's never too late.
There are many, many very useful tips and tricks that a yogi can use to both accelerate the positive effects of meditation and reduce the negative. Years ago, when I started meditation, this store of knowledge was harder to find. Enter the Internet and humanities willingness to share, and the power of Open Source.
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matangi
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Sep 11 2007 : 10:57:14 PM
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Hi presence,
I hope you are feeling better. It does sound as if you have found some strategies that were/are (?) working for you. I, too, have had times of deep meditation that seemed to leave me too numb and apathetic and this is what is working for me.
Self-pacing is a useful concept but I had to discover just what does that mean. For me, self pacing is not managed by reduce x number of minutes of meditation for x period of time. I'm aware of too many variables that potentially factor into an "overdose" meditation reaction so I tune in while in meditation. If I start to feel the dissociative numb apathetic feeling creep in I express gratitude to my inner guru for the guidance and wrap it up regardless of how few the minutes. I don't feel like I've failed in any way; I feel blessed to have that tight connection with inner guru.
Regarding depression, my experience has been that while meditation does not cause depression - it sure can reveal it. At times when I've gone through some painful moods and feelings, I've considered that my practice helped bring the the feeling to the surface and the pain is the last "hurrah" as the feeling is on its way out. Sometimes this is truly the case. But I don't lie to myself either. If my feeling hangs on beyond a day or two, I try to dialogue with whatever is there with the underlying assumption that the feeling is attempting to talk with me. And sometimes I just sit in my funk until I'm tired of it. :)
I'm currently doing some research about pranayama and it does appear there are some excellent strategies for lifting/balancing moods. (I'm finding that I am needing to fine tune day-to-day on the pranayama side of my practice as well.)
In a nutshell, what is key for me, is hanging tight to the whisper of my inner guide/guru.
Kathy |
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Darko
21 Posts |
Posted - Sep 12 2007 : 01:46:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Thanks Darko, that's a good one.
You'r welcome. I have realised this by wearing a too tight belt. Everytime I was dressed with this belt I ran into dissociation. Removing the belt removed the dissociation. After that I have tryed the belly breathing when I had dissociation after too long meditations - and it worked. |
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presence
11 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2007 : 06:40:17 AM
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Thanks for all your responses.
Havent been looking at the ayp-site for some months (BTW, some other forums have emails sent out, when there is a reply to a post, then you dont have to log in to check...)
I havent done mantra meditation since my last post here, and therefore havent experienced any of the symptoms I explained.
The use of a device whilst lying on one's back to bring the shoulders back and push the chest out, is something that Alexander Lowen (Bioenergetics) have written a lot about. Its a major part of his therapy. Many years ago a therapist suggested to me doing this exercise, while I was in a depressive period, and yes - I remember it really did something, but had totally forgot about it, so thanks for reminding!
It shows up again and again that people think TM is something very different from AYP. It would take up to much time to explain, explore it on the web and you will see.... no difference, even minor things as resting for 10 min. after meditations are reminiscence from TM, reduction of meditation time, samyama, all the explanations... same thing. Explore it and youll find out that 100th of thousands have practised the same thing as you since the 60s ;)
I was into neuro-biofeedback once. Once it was thoght that increasing alpha states in the brainwaves was the answer to everything. Now many researchers find that too much alpha can have negative effects, like daydreaming, passivity, introversion. They are advocating going for increasing the lower range of beta instead (a little faster waves than alpha). These waves are associated with presence and alertness.
I read one of the former TM-teachers critics of TM, his explanation why so many people experience bad effects from overdoing TM (like on meditation retreats) is that the brain gets way to much alpha.
If the brain is running on to high speed, its favourable to take the speed down at least for a while, but it seems to be not the case for all people. Some people actually should have their brains speeded up! (BTW,This is why people with ADHD feel relaxed if they get amphetamin). The faster brainwaves helps to control impulsis from the "reptil" part of our brain. If there are relatively to many slow waves, consciousness is presented with to much emotional stuff that cant be contained, and uncomfortable emotional states are experienced.
Alpha states are easely conditioned. Thats why the deep peace from mantra meditation is carried over in dayly life and one might feel peaceful for the rest of the day. Its more difficult to condition the waves that are a little bit faster. I think that mindfulness helps to do this. Also other activities where one is alert without thinking too much - walking in the nature ect.
Therefore mindfulness is not experienced so much as a diffent "state". If doing mantra meditation, you are not able to respond quickly if someone suddenly comes into the room. If in a mindful "state" while doing mindfulness training , you might be able to respond even faster than normal.
Mantra meditation comes very close to hypnosis. I know that very few meditators like to have their pratice compared to hypnosis, but fact is that everyone educated in hypnosis, would see mantra meditation as a common self-hypnosis technique. They would also see samyama as nothing else than self suggestion, which is something that one introduce to oneself or a patient, when the patient is resting in trance, as it then can pass to the unconscious without the normal resistance from the mind.
As I see it, sometimes it can be helpfull to get into trance as this is the fastest way to have the mind shut up if one is in a stressful state.
But trance is not the best state to be in if in a meeting or having respond to the outer world. Some people gets very easy into trance and are easely conditioned to go into trance when things are discomfortable.
I am one of them. If I practice mantra meditation/self hypnosis too much, and things gets difficult in my life, my brain choose to get into a soothing trance although I dont want to at that particular time. And it takes some time to decondition this respons again.
I really dont think that it is because it makes me aware of a depressive state that was already there. Then one could also say that bad mood after oversleeping reveals that the person has a latent depression.
So yes - I have to selfpace a lot.
BTW - I have just used my mantra to calm my self down after some very stressful days. What a magic releaf it can bring. A few hours ago I felt like woody allen. Nothing else I know of can do this. Although I LOVE to use my mantra I have to stick to using it as a remedy now and then. |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2007 : 09:10:05 AM
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Hi Presence,
I guess you have figured out mantra meditation is not the best kind for your particular physiology!!! I hope you continue exploring other types such as mindfulness and good luck.
Ayp has done wonders for a lot of us but everyone should know there are a million paths back home. |
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Meditation can cause depression etc.
