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yogibear
409 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 12:32:39 AM
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Hi emc,
Here is more of the quote from Yogi Ramacharaka:
"And, in deed, it is not always wise to relate these experiences to others, for those who have not reached the same plane cannot understand, and seeing in another a thing of which they can have no comprehension are apt to consider him irrational. It is a strange thing--an amusing thing--that in a world made up of people who claim to believe that each man is (or has as the term goes) an immortal soul, one who claims to really know this to be a fact is regarded as abnormal.....
But to the one into whose field of consciousness have come some rays of the truth from the Spiritual Mind, these things are no longer mere beliefs--they are realities, and altho such a one may apparently conform to the beliefs of the world around him, he becomes a different being. Others notice a something different about him, keep he ever so quiet. They cannot explain just what it is, but they feel something.
It is the birth of the spiritual consciousness. It is the beginning.
"The appearence of the bud of spiritual consciousness-the first rays of spiritual illumination-mark a most critical period in the evolution of the soul.
The time of mere blind belief is passing from you--the time of knowing is at hand.
The perception of the "I am" consciousness may be likened to the bud of the flower--the flower itself being the cosmic knowing.
Not until the whole personality of the man is dissolved and melted, not until it is held by the divine fragment which has created it as a mere subject for grave experiment and experience--not until the whole nature has yielded, and become subject unto its higher self, can the bloom open.
It must not be imagined that this budding consciousness springs fullgrown into a man's mind at once. It has done so in some cases, it is true, but in the majority of instances, it is a matter of slow growth, but the man is never just the same after the growth commences. He apparently may lose his full consciousness of the truth, but it will come back to him again and again, and all the time it is working gradually to make over that man's nature and his changed mental attitude manifests itself in his actions. He becomes more cheerful and happy. Things that worry his neighbors seem to have but little effect upon him. He finds it hard to manifest a respectable amount of regret and grief over things that bear heavily upon those around him. He is apt to be regarded as unfeeling and heartless, not withstanding his heart may be full of Love and Kindness. His mental attitude is changed--his viewpoint has shifted. He finds himself ceasing to fear, and those around him are apt to consider him reckless or thoughtless. Time has less meaning to him, for the idea of eternity has come to him. Distance ceases to appall him, for is not all space his? Such a one had better keep quiet, or he will be sure to be considered a "queer fish," and people may tap their foreheads significantly when speaking of him (behind his back).
From Advanced Course in Yogi Philosophy by Yogi Ramacharaka.
My perception is that every one on this site and all the spiritual teachers are somewhere between the bud and the bloom.
Eckhart Tolle said that he wears a baseball cap (as a disguise) when he goes into Starbucks now because one time he was having a cup of coffee and someone saw him and said, “but you are a spiritual teacher and you shouldn’t be drinking coffee because that is such an unspiritual thing to do!” Tolle was just making a joke out of it of course.
Best, yb.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 04:38:31 AM
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Thanks Ether and Yogibear,
Great posts, I am thankful for them. And do you know what? When I read them I get support for the image I woke up with this morning.
It's like a theater. When you are unaware you think life is what happens to you as an actor on stage. The play is created by painbodies (Tolle's term) and projections. The scene workers supply you with whatever you need in order to create your play. Hands from the side of the stage just gives you your supplies, according to the law of attraction. Then when you are invited (slowly, one peek at a time, giving you the creeps - or suddenly overnight with a shock) and introduced to the back stage you realize it's only a play. It is not for real. You meet the people that have died out there on the stage and just watch them dress up in a new robe, preparing for another role. When you go out there again and play your role you realize you don't have to change ANYTHING! You laugh all over inside of you at this gigantic joke and you just love everyone playing their parts, or there would be no play.
Everything is fine. Murder, 3 million dying of AIDS in Africa every year... it's not for real. They don't die! They're just out changing robes! You must laugh about the seriousness with which people live their lives/play their parts as long as they are ruled by painbodies and projections believing their thoughts! Insane, as Katie says! Also, the stage might be worn and torn - doesn't matter. The scene workers will rebuild or it will erode totally. Doesn't matter. It's only a stage, it's not important. The play will continue elsewhere.
There might be an incitament to help others understand this scenery, or it might not! As you say, many enlightened don't bother to inform others. They are happy inside, playing their parts. There might be an incitament to behave more ethical, decreasing others pain, or it might not! Depends on your delight in your role. Perhaps you see the good in being destructive, ending one person's role so that it can start another one! You would only be doing a service! As Katie said: "Why would I bother about spending so much time on airports breathing all that gas from the airplanes? How else would I die on time?" There's no need to save Mother Earth from pollution. That's only an opinion held by certain groups of people. There's no truth in that. People who believe that thought suffer when companies spill out oil in the waters. What a joke! =) How else would they make sure the fishes die on time? It's only a part of the play. The fishes don't die! It is trick filming!  They're just behind the scene changing for a new robe.
And why wouldn't you still be playing out your preferences? If the hands from the side of the scene gives you a bad dish at a restaurant, of course you'd send it out again with an arrogant face and ask for a better dish while laughing loud inside! The show must go on! If you are to wear clothes and you before awareness believed nice clothing was essential, why wouldn't you play out your desire and make sure you got the best and most expensive clothes? You'd know how to ask the scene workers for what you want. You are a master of existence.
Nothing in the play needs to change. Only your perspective of what's really true.
Yogani: "Real enlightened people are out there in the trenches of life working in their own way for the betterment of all humankind."
And as one of these claimed self-realized persons said: "God's love is not human love. It is so much love in letting 10 000 persons die in a tsunami!" What we consider "betterment of all humankind" does not imply supporting life. Death, pain and chaos is just as beautiful, necessary and life supporting as anything else, if I understand the wise guys right! |
Edited by - emc on Jul 12 2007 08:21:16 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 07:21:14 AM
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Exactly. And what each person doesn't normally see, is that each person lives in a different world, not the same one.
We can easily see that it is a different world for an eskimo than it is for a businessman in a big city. A scientist on antarctica lives in a different world than a native tribesman in a jungle near the equator.
But what we don't realize is that two people sitting next to each other in church may also live in entirely different worlds!
As Castaneda said, all we are is a point of perception. That point of perception assembles a world around it, and it is possible to assemble different worlds without physically moving at all.
Yes there is pain and destruction all over the earth. There is more than enough for someone to spend their entire life being aware of it and maybe trying to help.
There is also beauty and love all over the world. There is more than enough for a person to spend their entire life immersed in beauty and love and be completely unaware of pain and destruction.
So is it wrong for someone to be totally immersed in one or the other? Or is it possible to assemble your world in a way that you are surrounded by one of the above choices, while at the same time helping people who are surrounded by the other? Absolutely, and that's the skill we are learning here. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 08:04:40 AM
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| wow - I feel very small & humble. I'm getting a lot out of this thread, and thanks for your beautiful reply, Yogani. So if what's being said above is true, we should be able to reassemble our world view from where we sit, simply by shifting our awareness. If I'm experiencing lack, I should be able to shift to abundance simply by looking for it. If I'm experiencing fear, I should be able to dispel it by looking for love and beauty. Whatever we look for will be there in great abundance. Seek and ye shall find. Can it really be so simple? |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:05:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
So if what's being said above is true, we should be able to reassemble our world view from where we sit, simply by shifting our awareness. If I'm experiencing lack, I should be able to shift to abundance simply by looking for it. If I'm experiencing fear, I should be able to dispel it by looking for love and beauty. Whatever we look for will be there in great abundance. Seek and ye shall find. Can it really be so simple?
Hi Meg:
In theory that is true, and we should always follow our instincts for more joy. The "instant enlightenment" teachers would like us believing it is this simple. However, the instant approach is a path fraught with tangents and disappointments, because the process of human spiritual transformation is not instant. Blame is often placed on the aspirant for this, either self-blame or coming directly from the teacher, which leads to spiritual "performance anxiety." Not helpful.
The truth is that the neurobiology has to make the transition, and this takes some time. This is what practices are for. Our experiences and attitudes shift along with the purifying and opening neurobiology. It is all fueled by our bhakti, of course, our desire for awakening, which is the stirring seed of the awakening itself. It is a gradual transition from contraction and fear to expansion and love. Our motivations in life shift accordingly.
It is more like cultivating a garden than flipping a switch, though we'd all prefer the switch, I'm sure. The problem is the switch rarely will work as advertised, so better keep tending the garden. 
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 10:28:49 AM
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Just listened to a CD with Eckhart Tolle talking about another fear of enlightenment:
quote:
If you're homeless now, then you might think "Ok, first I need to find a home, and then I will practice going within and going deep into the now." Becuase there is a fear, which is the minds conditioning - If I go deeply into the now NOW I will be stuck in this now that I don't like, that I'm in now! That's a very subtle thing, a very subtle resistance - I don't like my life's circumstances, the mind says, so I'm not gonna go into the now, because I don't want to be in the now. I want to get into the future. And when I get to the future - then I'll get into the now!
And of course the miracle is: you do it now. No matter what the circumstances of your life are, there's no excuse for not doing it, and the quickest way out of undesirable circumstances is to enter the present moment and connect with the vast aliveness that is there, just waiting for you to touch it.
He is suggesting that "simple solution", although he is aware of the need of practicing, showing he knows it is not an instant thing for most people. |
Edited by - emc on Jul 12 2007 10:29:48 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 1:47:10 PM
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Meg wrote: "If I'm experiencing fear, I should be able to dispel it by looking for love and beauty."
B Katie brought us an excellent example where this was done instantly. A man told of a traumatic event where he was in a crowd and shooting started. Six persons were shot, he ran for his life, terrified and ashamed he didn't stop to help the wounded. Byron showed elegantly how thoughts and assumptions were attached to that event and made it painful. She ended up saying something like "You can run in two ways: With fear or with joy! Wow, think of the pleasure of just running because your legs wants to run. How exciting with bullets around! I wouldn't have a clue if they would hit me or not. NOW I can still run. NOW I'm still alive. Great! I'd run for the fun of it!" Sort of. It was not easy for the audience to grasp this, but I got it. It is only the perspective and the thoughts that follow that perspective that makes it painful. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 5:53:43 PM
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Yes that's true. But I believe most of the time people who obsess with the pain of the world, spend a lot of time thinking of the pain that is not here and now.
Being in the moment is the answer to that, and the purification or cultivation Yogani is talking about is what clears the path for that.
Usually people can't find love and beauty just by looking because they need to clean the windshield first.
Then that switch can be made faster, and ultimately even pain can be experienced in a non-suffering way.
Then it's easier to help other people do that. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 6:11:39 PM
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"... most of the time people who obsess with the pain of the world, spend a lot of time thinking of the pain that is not here and now." True, Etherfish, very true!
That's what helps me. To ask: In this exact place and moment - do I have any problems? The answer is ALWAYS 'no'. So... I'm out of my low for this time! Thanks for all beautiful posts in this thread. They really lifted me up hughely.
I meditated by a lake this afternoon accompanied by some ducks. (Have moved from attracting ants and spiders to ducks... progress, huh?) One of them created a third eye connection for several minutes with me afterwards, and I melted.  Ducks have the kindest eyes! Nature, Riptiz... nature... wow!!! |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 7:14:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
Usually people can't find love and beauty just by looking because they need to clean the windshield first.
Then that switch can be made faster, and ultimately even pain can be experienced in a non-suffering way.
Then it's easier to help other people do that.
Yes, if the voltage (inner silence) is limited, flipping the switch (self inquiry) will not do much. As the voltage is gradually increased (through daily deep meditation, etc.), the switch will work much better.
This is where the non-dual and dual approaches to spiritual realization meet.
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2007 : 6:55:28 PM
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Today I got the final key on the thing that got me depressed earlier!
There will be a change in the world! Not because it HAS TO or NEEDS to change. It's perfect as it is. But because there will be an instant knowing of what's true/real, and what is fluffy mind stuff/unreal/creating the illusion of the play and all the suffering. There will be judgements popping out, but as a part of the play, being watched and then dissolved. When consciousness "meets" the unreal mindstuff it burns it all away, just as stillness burns our blockages away in meditation. The mind stuff (likes-dislikes, good-bad, love-hate etc) that will continue to be produced and pop up like clouds will be so utterly uninteresting to go into and impossible to see as anything else than what it is, so it will dissolve! It will mean nothing. Nothing at all. Still occurring, meaning nothing. Not for real. Dream. Now I understand what Katie says when she will serve... She writes in the book "A thousand names for joy":
quote:
When I woke up to reality in 1986, I noticed stories arising inside me that had been troubling mankind forever. I felt absolutely committed to undoing every stressful story that had ever been told. I was the mind of the world, and each time one of the stories was seen for what it really was and thus undone in me, it was undone in the whole world, because there is only one thinker
The cleaning goes on and on! Why should it stop? Stillness burns the lies away! That's what it does. And left is the truth that was always there waiting to be seen, clouded by illusion. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2007 : 09:01:23 AM
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Hi Meg
quote:
Yogani wrote:
Real enlightened people are out there in the trenches of life working in their own way for the betterment of all humankind. They are working for themselves -- the "me," the oneness of "i am."
I just remembered Amma when I read this (the hugging mother). If you watch her in action even for a few days it is amazing. She is constantly working, hugging people, meetings, singing, prayers. I don't actually think she sleeps at all. Last year someone said to me "she builds universities as if it was a hobby". I think she has built four so far. So no lack of industry!
The question that intrigues me though is "what does she actually believe she is doing?" Maybe I'll get to find out one day.
Chisti
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2007 : 7:55:18 PM
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| serving God and mankind, I'm sure. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2007 : 07:53:33 AM
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| Funny that you should mention Amma. I saw her a few weeks ago for the first time. I went without expecting anything - just wanted to experience her presence and find out what the whole Amma thing is about. I was amazed at the organization and dedication of her many workers. They were as impressive to me as Amma herself. Serving tirelessly to help those who are suffering. Any kind of suffering; they don't seem to discriminate based on class. And cheerfully too - there wasn't a bad attitude in the entire production. After my hug they gave me some holy water and a Hershey kiss. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2007 : 06:22:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Everything is fine. Murder, 3 million dying of AIDS in Africa every year... it's not for real.
Yeah right everything is fine as long as it doesn't happen to you. I bet if you only had as much as a toothache this type of philosophy would go out the window that very second and you would hit the ground running for a pain-killer. 
But other then that sending millions of people in Africa to the great beyond is fine. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2007 : 10:00:47 AM
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no you're confusing two different viewpoints. Of course millions dying matters, and you should take any action you can to help. But then you need to switch gears and forget about it when you're not helping so you can return to inner silence.
The statement that it is not real is from the perspective of someone who obsesses with all the evil in the world and can't let it go long enough to find inner peace. This doesn't help people in africa at all.
Taking action helps people, not thinking bad thoughts. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2007 : 04:27:49 AM
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Exactly, etherfish. What good is it to sit and be upset about something, indulging in thinking about rightness or wrongness? No good at all. Only brings pain and suffering to yourself, being in past or future or other people's business. When leaving what seems to be awfully wrong, accepting it, seeing it for what it is: millions dying in AIDS every year! then stillness can do its job much better: pulling you toward action without YOU having to think about what you are supposed to do (as if you knew). Action will arise anyway. That's the mystery of this that is so hard to grasp. When leaving things as they are, one must trust that they begin to change by the force of life. When you hold on, resist, and fight, things stay the same or even get worse only to show you THIS IS NOT THE WAY!
Actually, Lili, I investigate every pain I get nowadays with curiosity. After my latest strong pain experience of a kidney stone attack I am eager to try out more the method I found then. I now welcome any pain! I accepted the pain and decided to watch it. Instead of thinking "NO" I thought "YES", instead of running from it I faced it. Instead of taking a pain killer (the pain was too great, I could not control my movements or take action even to go and get one) I decided to investigate what physical pain feels like in a manifested body. And when I dove into it I found myself in a deep meditative state where the pain was simply just not me! Pain was pain, it felt the way it felt - white, glowing, stone hard, compact, pulsing pain - but I, my mind or body, was not having it, I was not the one being in pain, so it was not for real at all! Pain was what it was: pain, but it didn't hurt anymore. There was no suffering (since noone was there to suffer), only pain, which was not so bad at all, and after only a short while the show ended: it was not there anymore. It dissolved! And what it showed me was the need to take ACTION and call a friend with a bad kidney whom I hadn't spoke to for a long time! I am grateful! |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2007 : 05:58:38 AM
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Yes there is definitely something to it in the way you and etherfish describe it. And if you say this method works even for kidney stones so much the better. |
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2008 : 12:01:15 AM
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quote:
I do not want to stay in this life, and I am afraid the world will be the same when I get enlightened.
emc (and others), I know I'm a bit late in responding to this post, but I chanced upon it and think the subject is important.I, too had thoughts of suicide all my post-pubescent life. Three years ago I had no hope and made a serious suicide attempt. The results of that attempt were so horrific that I finally reached out for help. I was desperate - suicide was my "ace in the hole" but I'd played that card, it didn't work, and I was out of ideas. Now what?
Soon afterwards the Universe saw to it that I was exposed to Tole's "The Power of Now". Tole writes of considering suicide and pondering what is the "I" that wants to kill "myself"? That resonated within me. Tole's emphasis on present-mind awareness worked for me when I was unable to practice formal meditation.
A few months later I was able to practice sitting meditation and achieve brief glimpses of no-mind. In that gap the strangest thing happened: I realized I was Loved. This was both a feeling (of being loved) and a thought (a realization that as soon as I asked for help it was given to me). That unconditional love didn't always look the way I wanted it to and it didn't always make me feel very good but it was there in a very obvious, miraculous way.
The fact that you haven't killed yourself is significant. The real you is searching for the Source. The real You knows the Truth that Yogani, and countless others, are telling us.
You and I are both blessed in that we realize that the "normal" way of doing things in our society is not a path with a heart. The despair we feel helps motivate us to drop preconceptions and attachments to a degree others may not be able. To the degree that I channel my disenchantment with the "real" world into embracing the devine within, I progress in my practice. The results are dramatic. Sometimes I feel so much love and, yes, bliss it's as though it's seeping through my pores. Yogani's promises are not empty and I am living, loving proof.
"Don’t surrender your loneliness so quickly.
Let it cut more deep
Let it ferment and season you
As few human or even divine ingredients can.
Something missing in my heart tonight
Has made my eyes so soft,
My voice so tender,
My need of God
Absolutely clear."
- Hafiz
Namaste,
Joe |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 13 2008 : 3:44:44 PM
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What a beautiful post, Joe! Thank you for that late reply, and thank you for sharing so openly!
"The fact that you haven't killed yourself is significant. The real you is searching for the Source. The real You knows the Truth that Yogani, and countless others, are telling us."
Yes! That is a very clear choice made every day. As long as we don't actually do it, we're still in the game and has that inner longing for Truth driving us forward.
That is a wonderful poem by Hafiz, a favourite of mine next to Rumi.
"Yogani's promises are not empty and I am living, loving proof."
Absolutely lovely to read! I can't but agree! Yogani's shared information is transformative to a degree beyond comprehension, and we're all this embodied loving aliveness! Thank you for being such a wonderful proof! |
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jthabuddha
22 Posts |
Posted - Jan 15 2008 : 03:17:08 AM
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is there life before death?
i see none here.
do something less to get more.
give it all up
so that you can have it all.
or SO ALL CAN BE HAD |
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