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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 26 2007 : 9:58:51 PM
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Thanks for your thoughts Christi, I see it pretty much as you do.
quote:
This is the wonderful thing about the Earth. If we have any delusional thoughts, or beliefs, and we are at all sensitive, it really isn't very long before they slam us into a wall. We should really be very grateful for this. You could imagine a world where most things were pretty sweet, and it could take millions of years to generate enough suffering to help us work out all our negative accumulated karma. Actually the Gods live in worlds like that. But on this wonderful planet, pain is everywhere. So with the right tools for the job, it is possible to bring all our karma to the surface relatively fast and work through it all.
Hilarious, I was just saying the same thing to a friend the other day. If we lived on a planet where every one was fairly clear of delusional thoughts, nobody would react to the subtle or more minor transgressions of our behavior, there would be no feedback for us. Here we get the most subtle errors of thinking flung back at us loud and clear as people here are too full of their own pain to process any additional from us without reacting. This place is truly a great gift though it can be easy to forget when dealing with some of those big karmic issues! 
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Edited by - Anthem on Jun 26 2007 9:59:40 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jun 26 2007 : 10:36:31 PM
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Hi Anthem,
Synchronisity or coincidence?
Actually I am finding this kind of thing happens more and more. And it is to be expected, as we are coming more in touch with reality, so our thoughts will harmonize more and more.
I wrote something in the thread on Ego, about there only being one ladder in the universe with fear at the bottom and love at the top. Then I felt that it wasn't quite true and I meant to write a post clarifying what I really felt. I was going to say something like: all there is is love, but as we move deeper into that love of our true self, there is the feeling of surrender, and as we move further from truth and from love, the feeling accompanying that movement is fear.
But I had to go on a silent retreat for 10 days and did not have the chance to write it before I left. Then when I got back, Katrine had already writen it for me, in the first post on this thread :
quote:
You know......I don't see any ladder. There is something about this description that...is not quite it... for me.
And if love is everywhere, then the ladder....is not quite it, is it?
The thing is.....fear is also everywhere. This is very clear to me these days:
When i am calm.....there is no fear, just a great loving peace.
The instant I "fall out" of this calm - usually by identifying with some kind of mental activity or image - then fear is a result. So to me....it is rather that i am with I am, or i am with me. I am either conscioulsy in existence, or i am not.....present.
And what ....."transports" me into existence...is the stopping of identification with all concepts. It is the stopping of all travels. It is not an achievement. Not at all. It is not my doing.
(Thanks Katrine, your a star.  )
Synchronisity? No.
It's just the touch of something real. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 2:15:56 PM
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Hi Jim
quote:
Katrine, I'm not sure why you think that I think that you think you're fully realized
Jim. The truth of this dawned on me yesterday. As i told you - you always help me. Just not in the way I expect you too. And this is good!!
The reason i reacted to your "you are not nearly as surrendered as you think you are" is simple. It is a big fear i have: to come off as someone who thinks herself more...wise....than she is. Because this would indeed be very unwise, wouldn't it? Your post simply triggered the image I have of what I think I should be like in this context. And why do I fear it? Simple again: It exposes the fact that I cannot "clever myslef" into reality here either. It either is - or it is not. I will never, ever be wise. On the other hand - it is possible to be a vessel for wisdom. But this wisdom cannot ever be owned by anyone; least of all me.
I don't have to fear that I "come out wrong". In fact - fearing it, is a sure stopper for being natural and spontanious. So here - as everywhere else - I will have to risk being open. I will have to risk being the way i already am. Faults and all.
So i was wrong, Jim. You exposed my fear - nothing else. I am sorry i projected my "stuff" unto you.
And thank you for not giving up on me. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 2:43:33 PM
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Hi Christi
Thank you for helping me see, Christi.
quote:
But here comes the crunch: it takes time for karma that we created in the past to work itself out and become eradicated from the system
Yes.....this explains it. The system....the bodies (physical and subtle)....carry imprints. It takes time to clear them. I think the confusion is here because the fact that I am not my body is still not consistent with me. I forget. I remember too....as I experience it......but I forget more often than I remember. When the scale tips.....when I remember more than I forget; then the issue of "the other woman" will be no issue. She will be around as all the other impressions....but she will not....claim my attention more than other things.
quote:
If we just stop generating new karma, then the old ones will work their way out on their own. We just have to watch the gates, the point at which new karmas are generated.
Yes. Yes. And yes again. It is my experience that "wathcing the gates" is all it takes. Because any new reaction is based on an old one. By watching and staying still, instead of reacting, both the new, and a layer of the old karma, is dissolving. NOW is always the moment of power.
quote:
(Thanks Katrine, your a star. )
Synchronisity? No.
It's just the touch of something real.
That's great, Christi.....that I saved you the trouble
I remember looking at the vast blue starfilled sky when I was a little girl.....up in the mountains in wintertime. I used to believe that I could touch the star that was the most distant.....I used to stretch out my hand mentally.....and I felt so, so certain that that was all it took.....just an intense longing to reach it with my inside. I felt vast, vast inside. I stopped talking about it, because noone understood. I didn't either, but it always filled me with joy. It still does...although I understand it even less now.
We are all stars. And the space that makes them possible. Thank God for that!
Thank you, Christi
May your night be bright.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 3:04:14 PM
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Hi David
I loved your wasp post
When I was four years old, I was stung by a wasp while sitting eating with the others in the kindergarten. I don't remember any pain at all, but I do remember several people (adults) screaming and running towards me (the wasp stung at the back of my neck - from what you say; it probably stung because of them). A big commotion. They took me to a doctor because the swelling was so bad....and I remember having to wear a yucky bandage for several days.
Ever since, i was terrifed of wasps.
Until about two years ago. Now, I carefully help them into a glass and release them out the window (My daughters hold all life sacred. They have taught me to never kill an insect if it is not needed). I sit still - my daughters (unfortunately they "learned" my fear from me) - especially the oldest one (who was exposed to my fear the longest) - run around screaming.
I'll print out your post and show them, David (if it's alright with you??).
Thank you so much!
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 3:42:08 PM
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Hi All:
I don't think karma is actually "eradicated." It is transformed by the divine flow pouring out through it. In this sense, individuality is not lost either, only expressed increasingly divinely -- through expanding love from within, which is the simultaneous fading of contracted perception.
So where does the karma go? No place. We are only passing through it with expansion rather than contraction. So the expression of karma becomes purified. In fact, this is the meaning of "purification and opening" occurring in our practices, and flowing out into our everyday activities.
The same goes for creating new karma. As long as we are here on earth, we will be creating karma. Each breath we take creates karma. For every action there is reaction. The question is: What is flowing through us in our actions and reactions? This will be the product of our spiritual condition (our abiding inner silence and ecstatic radiance), which is cultivated via effective practices.
Note: Here is something I wrote on transforming karma back in 2005: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....IC_ID=301#65
It could also be regarded as a matter of semantics. If our fear subsides and our conduct becomes more positive and radiant, is our karma gone? I suppose we could say so, at least the negative rendition of it. But, at the same time, we will continue to act through the very same inner impulses we have experienced with fear and loathing in the past. Only now with joy and forbearance. Is that no karma, or transformed karma? You decide.
It was never about the karma, or getting rid of it, was it? We can no sooner get rid of the devil by focusing on getting rid of him. It will only make the contraction stronger. But we can transform the devil into an angel by going beyond to the realm of inner silence, pure bliss consciousness -- becoming That.
All karma (and life) is a sweet little puppy dog when we have become That. Then our karma is the impetus and opportunity for service, so there is no need to get rid of it. In fact, our karma becomes a blessing to us and everyone else. The divine flow is always looking to expand -- it is stillness in action.
Karma, past and present, provides the necessary channels for this.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 4:28:21 PM
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Katrine said:
I'll print out your post and show them, David (if it's alright with you??).
Of course! I am honored to be quoted!
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 8:31:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
- I don't think karma is actually "eradicated."
- So where does the karma go? No place.
- It was never about the karma, or getting rid of it, was it?
- All karma (and life) is a sweet little puppy dog when we have become That.
- The divine flow is always looking to expand -- it is stillness in action.
- Karma, past and present, provides the necessary channels for this.
Hi All:
Thank you Yogani.
There have been tremendous breakthroughs on the forum in the last few days on these important issues of "Resistance, fear and control issues, Karma, etc."
Is the Summer solstice this auspicious?
Thank you all: Christi, David, Jim, Katrine, Yogani and all (in alphab. order?)
Thank all for sharing of your wisdom.
Peace,
B.R.V. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2007 : 8:59:16 PM
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Karma is like little magnets we have that attract certain circumstances to us. What we change is how we react to the circumstances, and what we do with them.
Fear is just the lack of faith. (In God, or whatever your highest ideal is).
When fear comes up, if you are willing to sacrifice yourself for God, then there is nothing to fear. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2007 : 10:52:48 PM
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Wonderful post Yogani thanks for your insight. I think I will find even greater appreciation for your writings as my awareness increases in the years to come.
This part in particular:
quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi All:
I don't think karma is actually "eradicated." It is transformed by the divine flow pouring out through it. In this sense, individuality is not lost either, only expressed increasingly divinely -- through expanding love from within, which is the simultaneous fading of contracted perception.
Makes a lot of sense, if all karma were eradicated how would there be any individuality? Also, it removes any self-made pressure to clear ourselves out of every delusion and we can replace it instead with observing and enjoying our ever evolving and increasingly divine and dynamic response to life.
quote:
The same goes for creating new karma. As long as we are here on earth, we will be creating karma. Each breath we take creates karma. For every action there is reaction. The question is: What is flowing through us in our actions and reactions? This will be the product of our spiritual condition (our abiding inner silence and ecstatic radiance), which is cultivated via effective practices.
Interesting insight, I guess our expression of behavior in the world is directly correlated to our spiritual condition. What if we are just over in practices that day? My expression isn't so rosy in these situations, that’s for sure!
quote:
It was never about the karma, or getting rid of it, was it?
I certainly didn't love my karma for the longest time! Mean old karma, I'm sure we've all faced some doozies and I know I've felt on more than one occassion that life was conspiring to get me! A certain amount of clearing out seems to be needed in order to be able to come to love it, or at least this is the way it has been for me. I can't say that I love all of it yet, I still don't like raisins for some reason!
quote:
All karma (and life) is a sweet little puppy dog when we have become That. Then our karma is the impetus and opportunity for service, so there is no need to get rid of it.
Yes, a sweet little puppy dog with piranha like teeth!
All joking aside, I've recently had the experience of feeling profound love with the most delusional thought a friend expressed to me the other day, because all I could see was the misdirected self-love in it. This makes life so much more worth living and easier to navigate.
Thank you Yogani for all you offer here.
A
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2007 : 1:18:17 PM
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Hi Yogani
Many thanks for your clarifications on the issue of karma. I agree with Anthem, very insightful.
I believe you could be right that it is largely a matter of semantics, but I was wondering what you thought about the matter of a human being transcending karma. What I wrote above basically comes from the teachings of the Buddha. As far as I can understand, I believe he would have agreed with you, that we all basically create karma whatever we do, even taking in a breath. Everything done is a consequence of what has gone before, and becomes a cause of what comes after. But the Buddha seemed to have a different understanding of karma, in the sense that he saw it in terms of a conditioned response pattern. He said that humans had a series of four basic mental processes. Basically we have contact with a sensory object, recognise that object, place that object within the framework of our memory, and then react to it. He said that it was the last process in this sequence which was causing all the problems in the world, as our reactions are conditioned and not based on a true understanding of the laws of nature (dharma). This unending process of conditional reactions seems to be what he saw as the karma of a human being. He believed that a human who could raise the clarity of their perception to the level where they could see the whole process clearly, would see how the process of blindly reacting to sensory objects creates suffering, and would naturally let go of the whole process at that point (the fourth stage of mental processing). If the Buddha was right, it would mean that a person who has achieved this state of consciousness, would be able to sense an object (sight, sound, touch, taste, smell or mental object), recognise it, understand it in context, but then be completely free to react in any way they chose. In other words they would no longer be in the ball game of conditional cause and effect response patterns that has been the norm for almost all of humanity for quite a while now. This is why the Buddha said it was not enough to have Samadhi, but one needed to develop the right kind of Samadhi, which was Samadhi born of wisdom.
I was just wondering what you thought about this idea. Is it at all viable as a possibility for human consciousness?
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2007 : 5:53:22 PM
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Hi Christi:
Yes, fully aware of objects and influences, and totally free (and constantly inspired) to act for the common good through those same objects and influences. That is what it is.
There are so many ways to describe the same thing. But there is only one thing going on -- human spiritual tranformation, assuming effective means for purification and opening are being consistently applied.
Whether karma (or its absence) is described as what someone is inclined to be doing or not doing (attached or unattached), or as the objects and influences themselves, doesn't change the reality of what is happening, which is a changing relationship with all that is going on within and around us. As we operate increasingly as stillness, our choices are affected accordingly, and the grip of cause and effect becomes less. The only grip was the one we created ourselves via contracted awareness, anyway. Karma? What karma? Maybe that is what the Buddha was talking about. Karma is only karma when we are reacting to it. But won't a sage also react within his or her surroundings to remove suffering, just as the Buddha did?
Do we become free from the influences of action and reaction? And is karma the influences or the conduct? It does seem to be semantics.
The truth is, as time goes on we can choose more easily to act as part of the natural divine flow expressing through whatever is happening, and that will illuminate all our actions and reactions. We will still chop wood and carry water, just like we did before, but the suffering will be less and less. The things we may wish to avoid now may be very things we will choose to fully engage in a freer state, filled with ecstatic bliss instead of the revulsion of the past. Ironic, isn't it?
It is the paradox of divine flow, which raises the question, "What is freedom anyhow?" Is it freedom to do or not to do? I don't think so. It is the freedom to love and give infinitely, and not suffer in the process. Happiness is becoming a channel of infinite giving. Everything else is a strategy based on limitation.
I agree that static samadhi (the witness) is not enough. It is a good first step. The non-dualists make a big hoopla about unconditioned awareness, but it is incomplete without full engagement in the world. Even total absorption (nirvikalpa) is not complete. We will not be penetrating the karma thing (by whichever definition) until we are wide awake in the world and moving in samadhi (sahaj) -- stillness in action.
Wisdom is both cause and effect in this. We learn by doing, without doing.
The guru is in you.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 07:32:06 AM
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Hi Yogani
quote:
The truth is, as time goes on we can choose more easily to act as part of the natural divine flow expressing through whatever is happening, and that will illuminate all our actions and reactions. We will still chop wood and carry water, just like we did before, but the suffering will be less and less.
Hi Yogani,
That certainly clarifies a lot. I can see that I was getting confused about the issue of freedom. It seems that you are saying that real freedom isn’t the freedom to do whatever we want, but rather, the freedom to allow the divine qualities to act through us. This makes a lot of sense in terms of the teachings of Christ. Christ never prayed to be able to do whatever he wanted, but rather to be more and more surrender to the will of his Father.
I have seen some of this happening in my own life. Two different processes seem to be happening. The first is a kind of pause between an action and my reaction to it. In that pause it feels like I can choose how I want to respond, or not to respond at all. But then, any response has to come from some position, either from a reactional position based on suffering and pain, or from a surrendered position based on love and compassion. So in that sense, the only freedom is as you say, the freedom to choose to allow the divine to flow through me.
I have also experienced the same dichotomy as Katrine recently where my body and mind seem to be reacting differently from my own will. In prayer, I feel completely surrendered and that I would be willing to die for my love of the divine if it was necessary. Then about two months ago I was on a train in India. A drug addict was sitting opposite me and I went to talk to him. He pulled a gun out and pointed it at my head. My body and mind suddenly decided that they were not ready to die at all and I became very afraid. I then responded with excessive violence based on that fear. So am I fooling myself in prayer over the depth of my surrender, or are there different levels of being, where we can be more surrendered on one level than on another?
Christi |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 09:45:52 AM
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Etherfish, David, I found your observations on wasps revealing: because it related directly to my fear of mosquitoes in meditation.
I always have a tendency to be bitten more by mosquitoes. And my intense fear began when we were supposed to sit still irrespective of bites, pain or anything else. I dreaded all those sessions; covered myself as much as possible: and then of course they bit my cheeks, eyelids, lips, nose. And of course I meditated only on mosquitoes. But yes, occasionally I lost awareness of them. After I began AYP, I allowed myself to sit under the fan, be comfortable, and even slap off a few mosquitoes. They have considerably lessened annoying me. I wonder, can mosquitoes, like wasps, smell fear too? (For that matter does everything and one you fear 'smell' it, and zero in onto you?)
Yogani, would just like to share this with everyone, wrt your observation on karma transformation.
For quite some time I was struggling with forgiveness and aversion issues wrt a person. Then I felt I'd overcome it. Even as this thread was going on, and I posted earlier about being able to feel 'the presence' work through me, like Katrine said she was, I suddenly went out of control and experienced violent aversion, anger and depression all rolled into one wrt the same person, for no reason. This went on for three days, till I accepted this 'ugly face' of mine, and admitted it vocally. Then I was at peace.
I have no idea if this (peace)is temporary or not. But if I am able to deal with this issue with, as you say, 'love and forbearance', I'd be going through the transformation: not through trying to control my behaviour for the better (that makes it worse) but by just seeing myself, acknowledging what I am, and allowing any transformation to take place, if there is a potential at that moment. Is there any other way when you are doing the practices regularly?
I feel as if the expansion through the practices also expands all the qualities in us: the pleasant and the unpleasant.
This is a reiteration of what Jim was saying all along. So do you have to be prepared all the time for your 'ugly face' to rear its head, and hold on tightly to the railing to avoid being swept off? Or is there something more constructive to be done, for wannabe yogis? |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 10:10:21 AM
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quote:
Then about two months ago I was on a train in India. A drug addict was sitting opposite me and I went to talk to him. He pulled a gun out and pointed it at my head. My body and mind suddenly decided that they were not ready to die at all and I became very afraid. I then responded with excessive violence based on that fear. So am I fooling myself in prayer over the depth of my surrender, or are there different levels of being, where we can be more surrendered on one level than on another?
Hi Christi,
I think you'll find some wonderful insight regarding your questions in Byron Katie's book "A Thousand Names For Joy", if you haven't read it already. She describes some similar situations as the one you mentioned above and shares her natural (liberated) responses to them. A very inspiring read.
All the best,
Anthem11 |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 1:42:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Then about two months ago I was on a train in India. A drug addict was sitting opposite me and I went to talk to him. He pulled a gun out and pointed it at my head. My body and mind suddenly decided that they were not ready to die at all and I became very afraid. I then responded with excessive violence based on that fear.
You are still alive, so may be your reaction (even it was fear-based)
was the right one ...
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 2:19:16 PM
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Sadhak wrote:
quote:
I wonder, can mosquitoes, like wasps, smell fear too?
No, mosquitos don't operate off of fear because it is not natural to be afraid of them! They are attracted to carbon dioxide, body heat, especially infrared generated by blood vessels, and moisture.
So they smell your breath first because it has CO2 and moisture. They follow that smell, and when they get close they land and look for infrared from blood vessels. If you are walking and a swarm follows you, if you hold your breath and walk faster they will often loose track. I don't understand why; you'd think they see you, but they must get hypnotized by your breath. If you're sitting still there's not much you can do. If you eat a lot of vitamin K they don't like it. |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 01 2007 : 11:36:28 PM
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Thanks a tonne Etherfish,
I find this totally facinating... you know a lot about insect behaviour. If this weren't a yoga forum, I'd have certainly bombarded you with insecty questions.
But then, going by what you say:
quote:
They are attracted to carbon dioxide, body heat, especially infrared generated by blood vessels, and moisture.
,
from the pov of yoga, mosquitoes are a good indicator of how slow your breath is and how still you are. Less mosquitoes could mean more stillness: physically, and perhaps as a corollary, internally too.
But meditation and pranayam also seem to generate a lot of body heat. One of our ayp group members hands become very hot by the end of meditation, and most of us feel warm while meditating in the winters, and shiver after we come out of it. So that should attract mosquitoes to meditators too. This one is a bit of a contradiction. But I have also noticed that they sit on you, but don't bite much when you are very still.
Right now, the weather is very humid, but I specifically noted that there are much less mosquitoes (maybe the heat got them).
So they must be attracted to fidgety people, warmer and/or sultry people , people who breathe fast, people with more infrared in their blood , and people with less vit K. (And with that I beat a hasty retreat before the scientific ones here go for my noggin) |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 02 2007 : 8:29:00 PM
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Well, infrared and heat are the same thing. infrared is the light they see when there is heat.
CO2 is what attracts them the most.
There are machines that keep your whole yard clear of mosquitoes, and they do it by generating CO2 and heat, by burning propane gas. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 11:40:34 AM
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Hi Anthem
quote:
Hi Christi,
I think you'll find some wonderful insight regarding your questions in Byron Katie's book "A Thousand Names For Joy", if you haven't read it already. She describes some similar situations as the one you mentioned above and shares her natural (liberated) responses to them. A very inspiring read.
Thanks for the advice. Actually (yet another unbelievable synchronicity) I had just started reading her first book a few weeks ago. If I don't find any good advice in there on dealing with psychotic drug crazed killers on trains whilst maintaining perfect equanimity and acting only from a position of love, then I will have a look at the one you mentioned.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 11:50:48 AM
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Hi Wolfgang,
quote:
You are still alive, so may be your reaction (even it was fear-based)
was the right one ...
You may be right, it may have been the right response, but the motive was all wrong. Actually, the whole situation was rather more complex. You see, I felt fear and decided to disarm him. I disarmed him and put him on the floor, but then I could see the gun properly for the first time (like not just the end of the barrel) and it was clearly a fake. Then my fear turned into a mixture of anger (that I had been tricked) and a kind of indignation that he needed to be taught a lesson. That's when I got violent. It was interesting to see how easily fear turned into anger and self-righteous indignation and violence. Tolle wrote in The Power of Now how there is only really one human emotion. I can't remember if he said it was fear or pain, but it doesn't really matter, as fear is the contraction around pain and pain is the basic emotion of fear. So it is interesting to see Katrine saying at the start of this thread that there is really only one thing which is love, and Tolle saying there is really only one thing going on, which is pain. Obviously (to me) Katrine is talking from the position of reality, and Tolle is speaking about the apparent universe from the position of ignorance.
So even if my actions (or some of them) were justified, as I thought peoples lives were in danger, I still believe that I was acting from a position of ignorance.
Christi
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Edited by - Christi on Jul 03 2007 12:02:30 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 12:43:29 PM
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Hi Christi,
I'm pretty sure Tolle said it was fear.
In regards to Byron Katie's books, her first one: "Loving What Is", which I think is the one you are referring to, is about "the work" her highly effective method of self-inquiry. It is an excellent book and the most effective method of self-inquiry that I know of.
Her third book, "A Thousand Names For Joy" is written in the spirit along side the famous "Tao Te Ching" and gives many accounts into life as perceived from Stillness in Action and is truly inspiring. One of my favourite reads yet.
All the best,
A
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jul 03 2007 : 4:10:30 PM
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That is interesting, though. And I think those kind of situations are why I avoidance on a lot of occasions. When I am put into those situations I have trouble holding my peace. The greatest distortion I experience is fear and anxiety.
Sometimes I am not sure how much my control issues are and my legitimate needs overlap and diverge. While I don't want to divorce myself from society and miss out on the oneness with people, I also really enjoy solitude and time to practice the techniques.
There is a fine line between trusting yourself and believing everything you think, is what I tell myself. I gotta keep an eye on myself. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 04 2007 : 03:57:37 AM
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Thank you All for so many illuminating words!
I have spent some days in the mountains again. Plenty of tunnels either way....and no pannick attacks I changed my expectations. Earlier - after that first incident - i expected the fear to come. Now I expect the shine to be here in the darkness too. And it is!
I decide to be quiet - and I am!
Christi said:
quote:
I still believe that I was acting from a position of ignorance.
Yes....this is what I come to see about myself. I am always acting from a position of ignorance. I have wanted so much to know what I am doing.....and I have spent so much time reproaching myself for being so.....blind. But then...slowly....it is as if this acceptance opens a door. If I simply never know what I am doing....and if I'll never know, and yet - intelligent action is indeed happening through all of us all the time - then maybe to accept that I don't know, frees that space. I never "calculated myself" into spontanious responses. It can't be done.
I don't know, and then do. It doesn't work that way. So....Christi....what happened was ment to happen. Look at it again. All of it. Before, during, after. Apart from your knowing that you acted from ignorance.....is there something else? Some other understanding - for you? I don't know. Only you will see this.
I know I am not ready to die for the Devine. It is obvious. Why else would I be afraid of tunnels?
I also know that I am ready for the Devine. Very ready.
But these two (these "knowings")- what does it matter what I think I know? Those two statements are not truth.
So, to me, the less I focus on what I know, the more space there is. Openness.
I remember from reading Osho that he talks about "reaction" verses "response". It is of course semantics, but he seemed to say that spontanious, free, action is always in tune with Silence - it comes straight from Silence. He called it response. While as a reaction is just that....activity based on previous activity. It is "patterned" (I read contracted).
Yogani - I love the way you explain it.
quote:
The things we may wish to avoid now may be very things we will choose to fully engage in a freer state, filled with ecstatic bliss instead of the revulsion of the past. Ironic, isn't it?
Yes. I see my marriage. At first the falling in love (or rather: infatuation); then all the "goals" of family life; the joy of children....
Then the diseases, the financial struggle. I see all the obstacles....the falling out of love (out of infatuation). The temptation to leave (escape), the pain of watching my egoism......all this....
versus the light I see in my husbands face these days. How could I have been so blind? I never truly loved him until now.
And I will never know the depth possible
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Resistance, fear and control issues
