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theglock
26 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 12:22:17 AM
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I have no idea if you can even place both of those together, any who, I'm going to see. I've been doing AYP mixed with some of Osho's techniques for about two weeks now. I feel really good, alert, and can tell I have started to develop inner silence. However, I was a little curious about a few things..
Would it make sense for someone who is, let's say, enlightened, to lift weights? Or even go to bar's, not to drink, but to be social and meet with people and such. Although I am very into yoga I'm only 16, and enjoy doing a lot of "young" stuff. I love fitness and love lifting weights and cardiovascular exercises. To me this is a barrier for my yoga as it is keeping me down since I do not know what to do.
Basically, once would attain enlightment do you still do normal human things? All of these enlightened people such as Buddha.. Osho, even Yogani, it seems that once you are enlightened you change completely. If that is the case so be it but I just wanted to see if something like this was possible. It is mostly because of the 'mysticism' over the word enlightment, maybe I am just going crazy on this whole thing. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 01:15:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by theglock
Basically, once would attain enlightment do you still do normal human things? All of these enlightened people such as Buddha.. Osho, even Yogani, it seems that once you are enlightened you change completely. If that is the case so be it but I just wanted to see if something like this was possible. It is mostly because of the 'mysticism' over the word enlightment, maybe I am just going crazy on this whole thing.
"Enlightenment is not freedom from being human; enlightenment is the freedom to be fully human."
"The unenlightened person seeks freedom through enlightenment; the enlightened person expresses freedom through being ordinary."
-Adyashanti
Poignant quotes, exotic name ... but the thing is: I know this guy. He lives in a regular neighborhood, drives a Toyota. A buddy of mine recently ran into Adya and his wife, Annie (now Mukti, per their web site) at the grocery store, and chatted with them. Adya's favorite restaurant is a hot-dog place called Happy Hound. Friends of mine play poker with the dude. Yes, really. Prior to teaching Reality (aka Enlightenment), Adyashanti was semi-pro cyclist Stephen Grey. It is rumored that he may even have engaged in resistance training. 
It is also my direct experience that Adyashanti is fully and authentically self-realized. Not more so than anyone else, where realization has opened, just "as so".
The attainment of that condition known as enlightenment may just be a bit more normal, and a bit more infinitely precious than some might lead you to believe.
And that's the good news of yoga right there:
You don't have to believe anything.
Practice and find out for yourself.
It's quite literally what you were born for.
And if you see anyone who seems to be enlightened, or nearly so - don't put them on a pedestal, or seek to emulate them. Seek only to realize what they have realized.
I've only been somewhat acquainted with a small handful of individuals who may be said to be genuinely realized (enlightened), but they've all been more normal than normal.
Enlightenment isn't anything exotic; all it is, is awareness of Reality.
Yet, strangely, once you have even the smallest taste of it, you'd never dream of trading it for all the wealth and glory and achievement in the whole world.
No kidding.
Not even a little.
And, just FYI, there are a lot of systems that can get you there.
And, just FYI, I've never come across a better one than AYP.
Peace, Namaste & Welcome,
Kirtanman |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 07:36:49 AM
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| Hi Glock, or theglock. I have some friends who are WAY into weight training, and it's a spiritual exercise for them. Yeah, they spend a good amount of time looking in the mirror, but so would I if I had muscles like that. None of them are enlightened, but they say that lifting heavy brings their mind into 1-pointed focus to the extreme, which helps with their meditation. They also claim that heavy lifting brings their attention to the chakras and creates an 'opening' of sorts. Squats seems to be the lift of choice for this. There's also the element of pushing one's body to its maximum capacity, with the accompanying release of endorphins...a euphoric feeling, but not necessarily something that translates into permanent enlightenment. Personally, I believe that any activity that you engage in, if done with devotion and/or the intent of self-realization, will lead you to the discovery of your true nature. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 07:59:57 AM
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Enightenment isn't going to make all people the same. It's not a state you reach and then stay there. It is more a path that we follow in a certain direction.
You may notice similarities between enlightened people because as the nervous system is purified, it makes you want to treat others better and help others more.
But here's my theory on that: The people who are in the public eye giving teachings about enlightenment are likely to be more similar to each other than people who are not in the public eye. This is because their calling is similar. As you become enlightened you will discover more about yourself and become more who YOU are meant to be, and who knows what your calling is if not you?
Each of us has a different purpose in life, and it is up to you to discover what that is. Often you can discover it by what you wanted to do as a child. But then you have to take that desire and apply maturity to it.
For instance maybe a child wanted to "save all the animals in the world", then as an adult he becomes a veterinarian technician.
So don't worry about how enlightenment will change you, as it will help you to be MORE of the individual that is really you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 10:34:51 AM
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It's not about what you choose to do. It's about how attached you are to (and how much at stake you have in) a given result. Yoga is about tearing down your self image, becoming more childlike (young children have no self consciousness; they're just spontaneous). Is this about building a self-image or is it just something to immerse in just for the sake of immersion........ the way a child plays a game and then happily lets it go, like a sand castle?
If you do pursue body building, then I recommend this book:
http://www.amazon.com/Body-Mind-Spo...p/0609807897
I'd seriously recommend it for anyone taking up exercise (including weight training) in the midst of spiritual practice, especially yoga.
There's a lot of stuff on ayurvedic body type that's eminently skippable, as is the diet info. But the breathing stuff is incredible, and I find it works most dramatically in weight lifting. Read the opening, hypey info, and read the stuff in the back about changing training regimen and breathing. You'll be shocked by what it does for you.
In a nutshell: you breath only thru nose, mouth closed. You breath slowly (maybe 12 cycles per minute), doing ujiya breathing on exhale. You start this breathing pattern well before a given exercise task, and keep it rolling throughout the task. I find this invests my weight lifting with bhakti. Freaks out people at my gym, because sometimes I'm lifting just glaciallly slow, with this huge radiant smile on my face, and it feels natural and GOOD....none of the pain, wooziness, etc. Glacial slowness is not the aim, btw....it just gets like that sometimes. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jun 15 2007 11:20:53 AM |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 11:04:46 AM
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Hi Glock. Hey, get the book Secrets of Wilder. I don't think you have read it because if you had, I don't think you would be asking this question. It will answer alot of questions for you. It will really help you to get a better handle on all this and how it relates to the activites of daily living. Physical training is a great way to radiate and distribute the creative energy generated by yoga practice in a healthy manner. I hope you have a great life. 
Best, yb. |
Edited by - yogibear on Jun 15 2007 11:08:03 AM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 11:23:01 AM
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Here's my opinion on weightlifting as I'm around your age and struggled with the same concept. I used to be into it and I do think it is a great form of exercise and can be healthy for the body, however, there are things I think you should think about regarding this practice:
1. Health
I don't know into health you are, but some branches of yoga emphasize the idea that a light healthy body is a better vessel to a light healthy spirit. I believe this entirely and I gave up weightlifting a while ago in favor of a vegetarian diet and less protein intake. At the time I believed vegetarianism and such was completely incaptable with weightlifting, and it is if you are trying to gain weight and make yourself heavy, which was my goal. If you wish to go to the gym to strenghten your muscles, increase your metabolism, train your mind, etc. I think it's all good, however, in relation to yoga I think it may bring you down if you are trying to pack on 50+ pounds of muscle. This will require you to eat many many more calories a day and protein.
Here's the deal with protein, which is one of the main things that deterred my from weightlifting. Too much protein intake is horrible for the liver, the kidneys, the bones, the stomach, and just about every other organ in the body. Bodybuilding culture pushes protein on your and tells you to eat something around 1g per lb...which is ridiculous and extremely unhealthy. In American society it is hard to believe protein can be eaten in excess...but it is very true. Even the average American regardless of physique has shown to consume too much protein in a day. I guess what I'm saying is, don't let bodybuilding interfere with your health because that can be a detriment to yoga. You will have to up your protein intake if you are doing vigorous muscular exercise...but I wouldn't go near the 1g rule.
2. Vanity
Another thing that turned me off of weightlifting was the cosmetic side of it. I am a thin guy, about 145lbs when I was lifting and I always felt so insecure in the gym around all these big hulking muscular manly men. I realized on day that going to the gym was making me dissatisfied with my body, and this is the case for MANY people who are not genetically prone to be big and muscular. On the other hand, if you are genetically "blessed", be careful of vanity. It is ok to check yourself out in the mirror to measure progress or observe yourself, but the danger I think spiritually is when you become validated by your muscular body. When a decent chunk of your ego is sustained by your physique.
I suppose it's always up the individual to look inside themselves and uncover thier true reason for being into bodybuilding. I think it can be a very healthy and disciplinging activity, just watch out for your body and your spirit!
Good luck! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 7:56:39 PM
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Good stuff anthony. Nothing wrong with bodybuilding if that's what you want to do. But I gave up weights because I became more interested in 1) flexibility, and 2) What I can DO with the muscles, not in their size or how they look. Look at what Bruce Lee did and he was skinny.
So I practice B-Boy dancing and Capoeira games. Both of them interact with other people, giving you much easier motivation than inanimate weights. For me they are a LOT more fun than weights. Instead of admiring a muscleman posing, I admire a capoeira guy doing a one-handed cartwheel and throwing a kick while he's on one hand. And I admire a B-boy doing one of the four kinds of windmills. Then we practice to try to do those things ourselves.
But to each his own. Maybe you like weights.
One more thing: Big muscles are not as strong as they look. With some exceptions like heavyweight boxing, people with smaller muscles usually perform better. |
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theglock
26 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 9:44:20 PM
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Wow. Thanks for all the amazing replies! The main reason I body build is because to an extent I enjoy the physique and the other end is that I enjoy exercising. I actually have a book by Bruce Lee outlining some of the exercises he used to do when he was around and mimic them to the best of my abilities. I too have picked up a vegetarian diet , would be vegan if it wasn't for the honey in my cereal, lol. This leads me to believe that since my protein intake is probably nowhere near 1g/lb, maybe not even 0.2g/lb, I won't get "big" which isn't my goal, rather to have toned muscles and body strength. I love boxing as well and other cardiovascular exercises which cannot be done if you want to get big since you need somewhat of a resevoir of fat in order to do so.
I've noticed that since doing AYP daily for what is now 2 weeks not only do I feel so much better and lifted, I actually do better in my exercises. Due to my recent appendix removal I couldn't lift for some time, or do any exercise. After the doctor gave the O.K. I kind of went a little insane on the lifting and was so happy to be able to finally do it. I've noticed my cardiovascular endurance has gone through the roof and I can really take my body that extra mile. Maybe even literally!
As for the books.. I've been thinking about purchasing them but due to my age It'd have to be through my mother which isn't too supportive of neither the yogic or vegetarian lifestyle. Perhaps I'll get a prepaid credit card, eh? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 9:57:08 PM
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| Many debit cards work as a visa too. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2007 : 9:59:32 PM
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Hi theglock:
You might find this AYP lesson on physical fitness helpful: http://www.aypsite.org/80.html
Fitness is also discussed, with yoga-friendly exercise recommendations, in both the AYP Easy Lessons and Asanas/Mudras/Bandhas books. And, yes, the Secrets of Wilder has it too. Our hero is a champion high school cross country runner, who parlays his intense spiritual desire and dogged determination into full-blown enlightenment.
Go for it. And don't forget to self-pace as needed.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 01:49:22 AM
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Very inspiring thread! Thank you for all great posts!
quote:
Etherfish: Both of them interact with other people, giving you much easier motivation than inanimate weights. For me they are a LOT more fun than weights.
quote:
Meg: ...they say that lifting heavy brings their mind into 1-pointed focus to the extreme, which helps with their meditation.
 We are really different, thank God! I just love lifting weights due to the reason meg describes, and would just hate to be disturbed by others. I am a lonely trainer! I remember that body builders were scorned in the beginning of the fitness era, jokes about them having minced meat in their head instead of a brain flourished. Now I am prone to give those mockers right: You are capable of totally blowing your mind out of order and go into a no-mind state when lifting! It is truly wonderful.
However... a question: When the energies start "helping me" to lift the weights - do I actually get muscle training????? If I am not "connected" I get tired quite quickly, I feel I have to do an effort to get effect. If I open up and "connect" it doesn't feel as if I - my muscles - are doing the job really. Do they still get trained to the same degree? |
Edited by - emc on Jun 16 2007 01:50:20 AM |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 08:05:52 AM
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Thoughts on the Little Dragon:
Bruce Lee on himself: “… a dedicated and intensified man.”
Ed Parker(father of kenpo karate in America and the man who put Bruce Lee on the Hollywood map): “He was one in two billion. His perfected basics never faltered.”
Kareem Abdul Jabbar(NBA basketball star, student and friend): “Bruce was a renegade Taoist Priest.”
Pattabi Jois(guru of ashtanga hatha yoga): “Um, Bruce Lee, yogi!"
Bruce Lee is what you get when you combine a skinny little Chinese body, god given talent, an incredible work ethic, bhakti and steroids(he stacked). He was a very aware guy.
yb
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karmamechanic
3 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 09:58:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by theglock
This leads me to believe that since my protein intake is probably nowhere near 1g/lb, maybe not even 0.2g/lb, I won't get "big" which isn't my goal, rather to have toned muscles and body strength.
You can achieve this goal without lifting weights. If I recall correctly, Bruce Lee injured his back while lifting weights and switched to isometrics, which can be done without equipment. Isometrics and other forms of self-resistance exercise are much safer than lifting weights (no danger to the spine and connective tissue). I lifted weights for nearly thirty years but gave it up because I find self-resistance much more satisfying. To learn more, visit http://www.transformetrics.com. Here's another excellent site: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/shenan...OBB/OBB.html. Good luck and have fun. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 10:33:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karmamechanic
quote:
Originally posted by theglock
This leads me to believe that since my protein intake is probably nowhere near 1g/lb, maybe not even 0.2g/lb, I won't get "big" which isn't my goal, rather to have toned muscles and body strength.
You can achieve this goal without lifting weights. If I recall correctly, Bruce Lee injured his back while lifting weights and switched to isometrics, which can be done without equipment. Isometrics and other forms of self-resistance exercise are much safer than lifting weights (no danger to the spine and connective tissue). I lifted weights for nearly thirty years but gave it up because I find self-resistance much more satisfying. To learn more, visit http://www.transformetrics.com. Here's another excellent site: http://www.angelfire.com/ny5/shenan...OBB/OBB.html. Good luck and have fun.
Hi karmamechanic:
Thanks for that input. The AYP yoga-friendly exercise program covered in the books mentioned above is based on isometrics also. No trips to the gym necessary. 
The guru is in you.
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 11:38:48 AM
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| Just remember, on what I said earlier about protein - .02 grams per lbs is probably too little. I don't think the line is as fine as BB culture tries to make it, however, it can be detrimental and stressful to the body if it lacks the appropriate protein required to rebuild muscle mass. Being that you're a fellow vegetarian, this can be supplemented by nuts/legumes. Eating a big serving of almonds after a workout can be just as good as a t-bone steak. Also, they do make soy protein powders...but there is a lot of debate these days over the true healthfulness of soy. I'm sure there are many great websites and books for vegetarian bodybuilding nutrition. |
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theglock
26 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 9:41:44 PM
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http://www.veganbodybuilding.com
I don't really like beans so I have to find other areas for protein. I eat a lot of crackers, wheat, and other things. I am going to try and consume at least 20-30g a day, since I'm not really lifting to get giant, rather toned.
I'll check out the isometrics! |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2007 : 10:48:40 PM
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Hi Glock and Anthony,
Here are a few thoughts and facts on diet for you. If you find anything that rings true and is helpful for you, use it. If not, please disregard it.
The estimate of most nutritionists is about 50 grams of high quality protein for a normal person. The more physically active, the more you need. That is the conventional wisdom.
Yogani's yoga friendly exercise regimen is not hugely demanding and works all the major muscle groups. You probably wouldn't need more or much more than 50 g if that is what you are going to do. Most weight lifters are going to need at least a gram per pound of body weight if they seriously intend to grow. I highly recommend that you be sure to get at least the above mentioned quantity (50 grams) per day. It is not a lot and your body and mind will thank you for it.
But don't make the mistake of focusing on diet too much. Just enough to get your body into the pink of condition so that it is a help and not a hindrance on your path. Focus on diet is a dead end. Just enough education to have a good handle on the situation. From the other end, bramacharya and other yoga practices come into the mix as far as cultivating the body and making the nervous system capable of conducting currents of a higher order.
Stay away from all that body building food stuff. It is a big waste of money. Just eat a natural diet. We are not extinct because we didn’t have the latest super duper man made concoction that came down the pike for the last 50,000 years. We are still here. In fact there is accumulating evidence that the general health of humans has worsened since we became civilized and decided that we not subject to the laws of nature.
Yoganis's “light and nutritious” is a very good guide line. It is simple and cuts to the essential requisites for yoga success. Everyone's body has different needs. Listen to yours and if its messages conflict with conventional wisdom, which is still trying to find a solid foundation, go with your body. They finally got the food pyramid shifting in the right direction, i.e., more fruits and vegetables and less grain and dairy. Don't force it into some artificial intellectually preconceived notion of what it is supposed to have. That goes for the 50 grams and anything else I say, too. But it is a good starting point from which to venture.
I knew a naturopath who told me that the body is designed to thrive on 12 grams of protein. She was absolutely convinced. One size fits all. Sorry, not my body. It needs more. I think better and feel better with more. I felt tired and listless on that little protein. Her ideal world theoretical model does not have real world applicability in my case. Listen to your body; do not blindly follow the arbitrary dictates of some authority unless it works for you.
A healthy animal needs no book or someone to tell it what it is supposed to eat. It will go for what it was naturally intended to eat in the right amount every time provided its natural instincts have not been blunted by civilized man.
Your body will do the same. We are creatures of nature. We are not separate from it.
By the above I mean that you don’t see any farmers chasing the mountain lions and bobcats and foxes and wolves out of their corn fields. They are chasing them out the live stock pen and the chicken coop. Why? Simple. They are meat eaters. That is what they were designed by nature to eat. So when a friend told me she had to take her cat to the vet because it had diabetes, I just about fell out of my chair. How can a cat have diabetes? Diabetes is a disorder of carbohydrate metabolism. When I was at Wal-mart one time I went to look at the pet food to see what they put in it. Grain was the first item in a lot of them and in one brand it was the first six items.
Well, so the food producers do the same thing to our pets as they do to us. Many people don’t eat or move as nature intended and they are sick and dying as result. Cancer and cardiovascular disease are due to bad diet, lack of exercise and other stresses. Certainly not a lack of medicine. In fact, drugs are the third leading cause of death in the US. And we have the best “Health” care system in the world and we are the sickest nation(USA). Go figure.
It can take a long time of doing the wrong things over a number of decades to show up. Like a tooth ache. The cavity has been there for years. That is just the way we were designed.
And that needn’t be due to flagrant disregard for your health. It may be due to the best of intentions armed with sub optimal information.
So that includes vegetarians. That doesn’t mean that you can’t be a healthy vegetarian. But I think it is harder.
So what is a wild human living according to the primitive laws of nature in God’s great outdoors designed to eat?
Well, it sure ain't twinkies and Dr. Pepper.
Don’t be afraid to eat meat if that is what your body craves. If you do eat meat, try to get free range animals and grass fed, not grain fed, if you can. The reason people are supplementing with fish oil these days is because the livestock we used to eat was free ranged and ate green vegetation. Today they eat grain which is not the natural diet of a herbivore (cow/steer). The omega 3 oils enter the food chain from the green foods (algae in the ocean and grasses, etc. on the land) and land animals no longer get it unless the ranchers take care of their animals properly which is rare. But there is a growing movement in this direction.
Flax seed will not give you the omega 3 regardless of what the people selling it tell you. We don’t have the enzyme systems to convert it to the form it is in already in fish oil which our body readily assimilates.
So that is the main problem with vegetarianism. It is harder to get all the necessary nutrients.
There is no special virtue in being a vegetarian that I am aware of (some may beg to differ) but avoiding meat that comes from livestock concentration camps is a virtue and good for health (e.g. in factory farmed meat there is a huge concentration of pesticides from the corn they eat, far more than there is on the veges and fruits you eat. They have to give them antibiotics to keep them alive because the corn makes them so sick. And they are bloated from steroids. If you are sensitive to animal products, it is more likely due to all that crud than anything else. The meat, poultry and dairy products are inherently toxic these days. Most all that stuff in the store is from animals that are sick in one degree or another).
Like Eckhart Tolle, said, “If I were a cow, I would want to live in Switzerland or in India.”
The body may evolve and transform to the point were a vegetarian diet is the best thing for it but don’t do it because you read in a book that it is good thing or because some yogi who has been practicing the subtler aspects of yoga for years does well on it. Your body may not be ready for it.
For all we know it is a dogma that became a religious rule because of hygienic and/or economic necessity. And then it somehow became more “spiritual.” Some people are afraid to step on a bug.
In 1974, I saw Bikram Choudary on the Tonight show. He said that he had eaten one meal a day and slept 2 hours per nite for the last 15 years. He was 29 at the time. He was bragging that he had the experience of a 79 year old man and had the best body in town and that he ate big macs (I don’t advocate eating that junk. Just giving you a feel for young Bikram’s bravado). He said he was living on interest and that he was the Howard Hughes of Yoga. Taking off his silk Nehru shirt and pants he stripped down to his black speedo swim suit. He demonstrated poses. Bam, he was in one perfect pose and before you knew it, bam, he was in another. Like a cat. It was great. But my point is that we haven’t been practicing like he has and it is doubtful that most of us would be able to do well on 2 hours of sleep per nite for very long either or one meal per day.
It is easier to discern the body’s natural sleep requirements than its dietary requirements. It is more black and white. But that is what I am getting at with regards to diet. You know your body and what it needs pretty well with regards to sleep. I.E, I do well on this amount but not less. And you know what happens when you transgress your body’s natural requirements. It is hard to become confused with sleep needs. It is more difficult and subtler with diet sometimes because it is not so cut and dried. There are alot of varibles to control. But it can be that simple too using a little experimentation, experience and general guidelines.
So when you are peering into the fridge, go with what your natural intelligence directs you towards and be sure to distinguish that from the pre-programmed impulses that may arise from the magazine ads you have read or the tv commercials you have seen. There is tons of confusion and so much bs with regards to diet these days. It has nothing to do with what we were designed by God as creatures of nature to eat. If that is not the starting point for their theory, their conclusions cannot help but be wrong.
The less attention you have on it, excepting getting the fundamental principles and general guidelines of what and what not to eat down, the better. Eat to live, as they say, not vice versa.
So, what aren’t we supposed to eat? Well, do you see any wild animals eating chocolate coco puffs and diet mountain dew? That is a starting point. You can take it from there. Animals live within the closed circuit of nature. They don’t have an intellect to mess things up for them. So the intellect has to be realigned with nature if it has lost touch.
We are part wild animal and part civilized man. Don’t unduly superimpose intellect on healthy instinct. You have to combine the two harmoniously. An intellectual leash, but let the healthy instinct of your body dictate. When you have a routine going, you will be able to regulate the body and satisfy it accordingly. I.E., you will know how much and how often and what to eat without much trouble.
If you have been a vegetarian for a while and start to feel you have less energy, eat a little high quality meat and see if you don't perk up. It is not a sin. We are yogis, but we are very active yogis for the most part I think.
To me, “don't eat meat” is like saying “don't have sex.” You have the choice to do either.
And remember, there is a lot of “natural” and/or “organic” junk. It is a button they use to get you to buy their product. Advertisers make a focus group of consumers and ask them what they are looking for when they are buying food. They get the most common adjectives the consumers give them and then they label their food with it. These days it is natural and organic. Like new and improved natural organic twinkies. Those two words don’t mean a lot sometimes as people will use them merely to get you to buy their junk if they can get away with it. And that goes for the stuff in the health food stores, especially. It is easier to ferret out the absurdity of natural organic twinkie than some of that sneakier stuff. The word organic is really starting to become diluted because of pressure from big agriculture to "refine" the definition so they can label more of their products with it.
There is much falsehood masquerading under these labels now. Even grass fed can be false now because of the relaxation of the definition.
Anthony, I eat raw almond butter every morning with greens or fruit. It keeps me satisfied until lunch. Great way to start the day.
So this is one theoretical platform from which to view diet. Boil it down. Be moderate. Keep it simple. Low tech food. Light and nutritious. General guidelines.
Learn the rules, follow the rules, dissolve the rules.
Feel free. Free of all bonds. All models, all theories. They are representations of reality, not reality itself. Some more accurate and useful others. See them as such so you can discern the essential truth and distill and apply the fundamental principles. I believe that is what Yogani did when he created AYP.
I hope that you find something that is useful and beneficial for you. I do not expect you to agree or disagree with what I have said. It is good intellectual exercise to me.
Best wishes, yb.
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blujett8
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 01:05:28 AM
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hey theglock
I just joined a summer/fall 26 week bodybuilding challenge over on the Fruitarianfitness forum.....I don't feel that this intereferes with my practice what so ever.....you don't have to be fruitarian either to enter or participate- you may want to check it out....a lot of folks are spiritually inclined and are also purifying their bodies as well as working out and sharing in this path to liberation!!! HAVE FUN!!! Whooo-HOOOOOOOO!
peace
Heather
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theglock
26 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 1:28:58 PM
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Thank you for that greatly informative post, yogibear. I sometimes do wish to eat chicken but I believe it is because of my limited supply of vegetables and vegetarian food (until now when I did groceries.) I feel a lot better being a vegetarian, physically and mentally. I am more sharp throughout the day and when I do exercise I am highly efficient. I have picked up a few things and I am trying to increase my protein content until it feels comfortable. If it is not enough I suppose I'll have to try and find a soy potein powder or something of that like.
My main concern with body building and general fitness is that my main exercise is boxing. I use it as stress relief as well as I live in a somewhat stress provocative enviroment. Boxing allows me to release my anger and not hurt anyone. Also with lifting weights I feared that you'd gain an ego over your body because I do enjoy looking appealing. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 3:14:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by theglock
Boxing allows me to release my anger and not hurt anyone. Also with lifting weights I feared that you'd gain an ego over your body because I do enjoy looking appealing.
Hey The,
Thanks for this update; it actually helps clarify some key things, vis a vis stress / anger / pummeling the snot out of one of your brothers (and/or vice-versa).
I boxed in high school myself, and did martial arts at the same time (Shotokan, Tae Kwon Do - like boxing, but with feet, elbows, knees, and more yelling. )
I was a wimpy little kid; got teased and beat up a lot. It finally dawned on me in seventh grade (age 12), during rumination and reflecting after being placed involuntarily in a trash can, and rolled down the hallway for the umpteenth time, that I could do something about this.
Unfortunately, I wasn't in any kind of a spiritual position to understand where true strength and power come from (see: Mahatma Gandhi, Morihei Ueshiba), so I started weightlifting, took up karate and boxing, grew my hair, started dressing and acting tough, etc.)
It worked, and it was an improvement (as Abraham Lincoln said, "If there have to be slaves and masters, it is better to be among the masters".)
I didn't recognize for many years that this was simply the other side of the same coin, and just as a guard is stuck in prison (while he or she is there/working), my ego was JUST AS STUCK in the illusion that external strength has anything to do with anything (except illusion).
I also bought into the illusion that there could be "healthy" violence (like boxing). There can't.
Though as you've hopefully picked up on by now, we at AYP truly do NOT expect, or even want you to believe or listen to what we say -- but rather to consider the pointers we offer ... but to find out for yourself. "The Guru Is In You" is infinitely more than just a catchphrase; ultimately, it is Truth and Reality itself.
Many spiritual paths emphasize withdrawal from anything tied to the world of the senses and emotions, including satisfying foods, sex, violence, etc.
There is great wisdom in this, especially for someone who is just starting out; we have all been SO conditioned that the physical plane is reality, and the ONLY reality, that it takes a lot of practice to allow our perception to relax to the point of realizing things as they are. And "reality" is a very charged term, so please don't "camp out" on it; pragmatically, sure, the physical world is real; though it's infinitely more ... flexible ... than we've been deluded into believing.
However, it is ultimately a very small piece of our total Self and Consciousness. Imagine being able to only get AM Radio stations on your "radio" ... and then, with a bit of programming and firmware upgrading (yoga practice), you can get FM stations, too; and XM, and Cable TV, and the Web .... and so on ... and so on .......).
Why does this matter?
Because it illustrates *why* something like boxing can keep you stuck in the dream.
I'm not saying to stop boxing, by the way; truly ... I'm just suggesting you drop your belief that it's a good release for anger, along with any other belief about it, and maintain a relaxed awareness as to how it truly feels; what you're authentically drawn to, without seeing boxing (or anything else) through the lens of past "freezing" of what something is, or means.
Belief / Prejudice (Pre-judging what something is, or means) is possibly the greatest obstacle to Realization.
Example:
Satsang Attendee: What do you believe?
Adyashanti: I don't.
"Like that."
If that seems like the glib pass-off of some New Age California Weirdo Spiritual Teacher-Guy, check out the more detailed overview, in similar vein, from eminent Swiss psychotherapy pioneer, Dr. Carl Jung.
He does a nice job of clearing up the whole "there is death, there is time" thing, too.
And, just as a suggestion, if you really resonate with martial art type disciplines, you may want to check out Aikido (aka The Art of Peace). It is to boxing as a fully-loaded current generation, broadband connected PC is to a typewriter, in every way. Every way.
To see if you agree, Google "Aikido" and/or "Morihei Ueshiba". Lotsa good videos on YouTube.
There's been a fair amount of discussion in the Forum about psychedelic drugs (just use the Search feature at the top of the page, if interested) - with the key conclusion being: drugs may offer a little of what yoga practice can offer, but at a cost (risk, bad side effects ... worst one, being, of course: they wear off. <- please notice lack of "smiley face"; this is no joke. The wearing off can keep a person stuck in the dream in various ways, whereas yoga practice creates better effects than any drug, after some time, and at least orients one toward Reality, as opposed to away from it).
The belief that Boxing can actually help alleviate stress or anger is similar to the belief that psychedelic drugs can help you spiritually. You may experience snippets of something that *seems* to be similar (to the authentic experience or result you're seeking), but you quickly see that what you actually have "gained" is a cardboard substitute.
Yoga practice will help you realize Reality, subsets of which are more / greater / deeper Peace, Love, Power, Joy, Truth (Etc. Etc. Etc.) - for Yourself.
And, TheGlock - you're already Light Years ahead of where I was, when I was your age (I'm 45, now). I got a small glimpse of what I'm saying to you a few years ago (I was still speed-kicking the stuffing out of heavy-bags for "stress relief" not all that long ago; 2000, I think was the last year I actively trained).
Though the place from which I am saying these things, has only been re-accessed within the last few months, and even now is in process; much like an awesome sunrise, after a terrifying, stormy night. The Sun may not be *all* the way up, but the sunrise is still more beautiful than ever could have been imagined; and yet somehow it's rising higher in the sky, yet starting over -- (seemingly for optimal wonder and enjoyment) in every moment; yet I'm doing nothing at all, as I watch my Self arise, exactly as I've always been.
And as metaphoricalpoetical / really freakin' weird as that may sound, nothing has ever felt more normal, and nothing has ever felt nearly as good.
Peace, Happiness and Freedom from Stress is not only available to you; it IS You.
But don't believe me ... spinal breathing, meditation 2x Daily ... and Know (for) Yourself.
As the new saying goes, "Heart is Where the Home Is".
_/\_
Jai Ayam*,
Kirtanman
*Sanskrit for "Woo-HOO, THIS!!" (as in: it's ALL Right Here; always and ever; yoga just removes the mud from our windshield.) |
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theglock
26 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 4:58:16 PM
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| Thanks for the reply Kirtanman. I was thinking that myself that I was using boxing as a delusion just to escape stress momentarily, but I have realized myself after re-analyzing that the stress still remains, you cannot escape it. I probably will continue to box as I like the exercise and the movements and what not, but after reading your posts I do believe my reasons for it have changed. I just say it's hard I suppose, living in a world with such negativity, and all the hostility and what not. I was watching an interview done on swami nostradamus virato (a disciple of Osho) and he was saying that even as an enlightened teacher he has to continue to practice to keep himself where he is due to the outside world, or something like that. The way modern man is it is just too difficult almost to succeed on a spiritual path. I hope when I grow I can move to possibly a more spiritually aware community, or simply a nicer one. Thank you all for your replies, you have been of very much help to me. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 5:01:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by theglock
Boxing allows me to release my anger and not hurt anyone. Also with lifting weights I feared that you'd gain an ego over your body because I do enjoy looking appealing.
Hi theglock,
I am not as advanced as Kirtanman or others here but see nothing wrong with your boxing. I do a kind of martial arts (called zen taigeri) and kickbox (1hr of punching and kicking bags basically). Both are done in groups of girls only and with good background music. I don't think they can harm yoga practice in any way or that I should dump them and look for an aikido class instead.
I would be more concerned about your yoga practice as such. Be careful not to overdo. In one of the lessons Yogani wrote that young ppl under 18 should meditate for 10 min/day only so you might want to be alert for discomfort of any kind and scale back if necessary. Also the yoga passion should not blow you off course your education which is important at your age. Good luck! As Kirtanman said you are way ahead in terms of spiritual practice than me at your age. |
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theglock
26 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 5:17:46 PM
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Hey Lili, yeah I had not read that but since I do not have a stop watch or a timer of the sorts I only meditate normally until it is comfortable, which is normally 10-15 minutes. I do not time myself I just stop when it feels time to stop. In the beginning I started noticing a tingling feeling in my head (feeling it just now as I finished meditating) from the spinal breathing. It doesn't bother and normally a soft massage will kill it off. My whole life I've been interested in spirituality and what not, I used to be really interested in meditation when I was younger and often wondered what exactly it was they where doing in it, now I know :)
Perhaps being into spirituality at this age is a curse too, however. I am probably the only vegetarian in my school and the only person who has ever even thought of meditating. I may be wrong, since I am no one special, but the chances are highly unlikely.
I was into Muay Thai for a while but due to the cost and the damage my hands where taking I decided to simply box on my own at my own leisure. My biggest bet on the reason for people looking at things like this as weird is that I assume the ancient yogi's where a lot more different than our current. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 6:13:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by theglock
Perhaps being into spirituality at this age is a curse too, however. I am probably the only vegetarian in my school and the only person who has ever even thought of meditating.
You might be surprised to know how many of your peers are quietly into this. It's usually older people who make a big show of it. kids do it more quietly. I meditated in jr. high school, fwiw, and am still trying to get where I got with much greater ease back then.... |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2007 : 6:28:59 PM
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Actually yogibear, the body does not display many attributes common among meat-eaters - particularly sharp teeth, elongated jaw, high levels of HGL, or a short GI tract. The fact that the human body does not seem to be designed for consumption of our fellow animals is the reason for many illnesses. As one gastroentololigst put it, "The only real disease is an unhealthy colon." Being that when you eat meat you are eating something that is dead, and has been dead for quite some time and is decaying by the minute, your body needs to produce excess HGL to break it down, which results in an acidic state of the body...which the body counteracts by taking calcium from the bones and stomach lining and so on. By eating a vegetrarian diet of healthy living foods, the only possible thing you may lag in is protein...which is a good thing is by lag you mean eat less than the SAD (standard american diet). As far as omega acids go, they can all be gained through flax, almonds, soynuts, and many other sources. And as far as B12 goes, which is the ONLY thing you cannot gain from a vegetarian diet alone as far as research knows as of now, scientists aren;t even sure that it doesn't originate in the body independently, not to mention an average store is sufficient for something like up to 30 years.
I agree with most everything you said, however, I think you misunderstand the nutrition aspects of vegetarianism.
Point is, in regards to the original post, there is nothing wrong with weightlifting and eating a vegetarian diet. Just up your protein intake a little, and you should be set. Listen to your body :-) |
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