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AYPforum
351 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 08 2005 : 12:56:08 PM
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1142 From: "babaji_krishna" <babaji_krishna@hotmail.com>
Date: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:55pm
Subject: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters babaji_krishna
Offline
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Hi All,
I am writing to ask if there is anyone out there who has ever met a
yoga/nei gung master that can demonstrate at will their siddhis. For
those of you that may not know the term Nei Gung it is a Chinese
term that essentailly means internal skill. From reading about Nei
Gung the training seems very similar to yoga. There maybe some
differences in technique or focus but the end result is the same.
Some of the siddhis I am refering to are levitation, leaving no
footprints over snow( higher levels walk on water), able to send
prana or chi to another person to heal. Able to send prana in a
focuses manner to start a fire, etc.
I have heard of stories of such men or women but have nver
experienced such things. I was wondering if there was anyone out
there who can share some stories or actually know of any humans whom
they have actually physically met and seen these things at first
hand.
Although I agree that the siddhis are a result of practise and
mastery over such things as pranayama and meditation, it does give a
physical check as to the level of the practitioner. Many people can
calim they are yogis. Unfortunately it seems that modern yoga has
been much about asana and not about anything else. Very few yogis
that teach yoga can heal someone from a distance, disperse your
negative karma, see your internal body, offer you guidance into the
subtleties of your internal enregy.
One of the other very important things is how does one know
themselves when they are ready to progress to the next step of
training. This can I believe be only done by a yogi/nei gung master.
I look forward to hearing from anyone about their fantastic stories.
1143 From: Sreekandh Iyer <sree@asthatech.com>
Date: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:22pm
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters sreekandhiyer
Offline
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babaji_krishna wrote:
>Hi All,
>I am writing to ask if there is anyone out there who has ever met a
>yoga/nei gung master that can demonstrate at will their siddhis.
>
One of the yogi i know, he can tell us what we were in the past life and
what u will become in the future. This is not astrology !!!! This
principle is called Janma Argita Tatvam ( why do we take birth ? ). He
got this knowledge when he was seven year old.
Also pls read "Autobiography of a Yogi". For more info visit
http://www.yogananda-srf.org/ay/
--
keep mailing & keep smiling
S R E E
1145 From: "david_obsidian1" <david_obsidian1@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:44pm
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters david_obsidian1
Offline
Send Email
Hello Babaji Krishna,
I'm going to say something a little controversial.
I don't believe there is a person on the planet today who has such
abilities. The reason I don't believe there is, is that if there
were, they could demonstrate it to the world very easily and in a
manner which leaves no doubt in the scientific community,
establishes it as scientific fact, and thus greatly enhance world
consciousness of this very important matter. And they can easily
collect $1 million in the process, because there is a challenge out
there to demonstrate such powers, and if you meet the challenge,
the $1 million is yours for the taking.
Of course, you have to _demonstrate_it in a way which leaves no
doubt in the scientific community, and that is very, very, very,
hard for people who don't have these powers, but would be very,
very easy for people who do.
To demonstrate it in a way that would convince the scientific
community, one would have to get past the fraud-detecting powers of
the likes of James Randi, who is a magician who has specialized in
exposing fraudsters. If you get past him, you get the million.
But never mind the million --- just imagine the great contribution
to world consciousness.... the elevation of science.
The challenge has been there for some years now. No-one steps up to
the plate. There are thousands of people on the world today, eager
that you believe that they have psychic powers, but who avoid the
challenge of proving to you in a properly conclusive way that they
do.
They are conjuring tricks.
Think it over.
Best regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "babaji_krishna"
<babaji_krishna@h...> wrote:
> Hi All,
> I am writing to ask if there is anyone out there who has ever met
a
> yoga/nei gung master that can demonstrate at will their siddhis.
For
> those of you that may not know the term Nei Gung it is a Chinese
> term that essentailly means internal skill. From reading about Nei
> Gung the training seems very similar to yoga. There maybe some
> differences in technique or focus but the end result is the same.
> Some of the siddhis I am refering to are levitation, leaving no
> footprints over snow( higher levels walk on water), able to send
> prana or chi to another person to heal. Able to send prana in a
> focuses manner to start a fire, etc.
> I have heard of stories of such men or women but have nver
> experienced such things. I was wondering if there was anyone out
> there who can share some stories or actually know of any humans
whom
> they have actually physically met and seen these things at first
> hand.
> Although I agree that the siddhis are a result of practise and
> mastery over such things as pranayama and meditation, it does give
a
> physical check as to the level of the practitioner. Many people
can
> calim they are yogis. Unfortunately it seems that modern yoga has
> been much about asana and not about anything else. Very few yogis
> that teach yoga can heal someone from a distance, disperse your
> negative karma, see your internal body, offer you guidance into
the
> subtleties of your internal enregy.
> One of the other very important things is how does one know
> themselves when they are ready to progress to the next step of
> training. This can I believe be only done by a yogi/nei gung
master.
> I look forward to hearing from anyone about their fantastic
stories.
1146 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Fri Jul 1, 2005 0:17am
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters mm78102002
Offline
Send Email
Hello David and all -
A good dose of skepticism is a good thing. However, I do have a
friend who is a 3rd degree initiate and quite psychic. I asked her
once why she didn't try to go for the million and she said that it
is been there for years and they go out of their way to discredit
people. As far as *really* advanced souls, check out Yogiraj
Gurunath Siddhanath at http://www.hamsa-yoga.org/index1.htm .
Yogiraj is said to be a living Master and after receiving a
shaktipat transmission from him during a Full Moon Earth Peace
Meditation [he was in India], I BELIEVE IT. I also had my psychic
friend check him out. They ended up sitting in a raft together
discussing "things". Apparently they knew each other in a past
life. I think the only way anyone is going to believe statements
such as this is through direct experience for themselves. "Science"
will catch up in due time. Remember, we are in Kali yuga, the age
of darkness / ignorance. Science is not quite as enlightened as
they think they are, and this is coming from someone with a
professional degree in a so-called scientific background.
Well, there's my input. I hesitated to write anything about this,
but I just thought people should be aware that they do exist, or at
the very least, that there are crazy people like myself that believe
this to be true! ;-) I suspect that there are likely more souls
such as this - perhaps in India - that do not readily demonstrate
siddhis to observers.
Melissa
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
<david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
> Hello Babaji Krishna,
>
> I'm going to say something a little controversial.
>
> I don't believe there is a person on the planet today who has such
> abilities. The reason I don't believe there is, is that if there
> were, they could demonstrate it to the world very easily and in a
> manner which leaves no doubt in the scientific community,
> establishes it as scientific fact, and thus greatly enhance world
> consciousness of this very important matter. And they can easily
> collect $1 million in the process, because there is a challenge
out
> there to demonstrate such powers, and if you meet the challenge,
> the $1 million is yours for the taking.
>
> Of course, you have to _demonstrate_it in a way which leaves no
> doubt in the scientific community, and that is very, very,
very,
> hard for people who don't have these powers, but would be very,
> very easy for people who do.
>
> To demonstrate it in a way that would convince the scientific
> community, one would have to get past the fraud-detecting powers
of
> the likes of James Randi, who is a magician who has specialized
in
> exposing fraudsters. If you get past him, you get the million.
>
> But never mind the million --- just imagine the great contribution
> to world consciousness.... the elevation of science.
>
> The challenge has been there for some years now. No-one steps up
to
> the plate. There are thousands of people on the world today,
eager
> that you believe that they have psychic powers, but who avoid the
> challenge of proving to you in a properly conclusive way that they
> do.
>
> They are conjuring tricks.
>
> Think it over.
>
> Best regards,
>
> -David
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "babaji_krishna"
> <babaji_krishna@h...> wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > I am writing to ask if there is anyone out there who has ever
met
> a
> > yoga/nei gung master that can demonstrate at will their siddhis.
> For
> > those of you that may not know the term Nei Gung it is a Chinese
> > term that essentailly means internal skill. From reading about
Nei
> > Gung the training seems very similar to yoga. There maybe some
> > differences in technique or focus but the end result is the
same.
> > Some of the siddhis I am refering to are levitation, leaving no
> > footprints over snow( higher levels walk on water), able to send
> > prana or chi to another person to heal. Able to send prana in a
> > focuses manner to start a fire, etc.
> > I have heard of stories of such men or women but have nver
> > experienced such things. I was wondering if there was anyone out
> > there who can share some stories or actually know of any humans
> whom
> > they have actually physically met and seen these things at first
> > hand.
> > Although I agree that the siddhis are a result of practise and
> > mastery over such things as pranayama and meditation, it does
give
> a
> > physical check as to the level of the practitioner. Many people
> can
> > calim they are yogis. Unfortunately it seems that modern yoga
has
> > been much about asana and not about anything else. Very few
yogis
> > that teach yoga can heal someone from a distance, disperse your
> > negative karma, see your internal body, offer you guidance into
> the
> > subtleties of your internal enregy.
> > One of the other very important things is how does one know
> > themselves when they are ready to progress to the next step of
> > training. This can I believe be only done by a yogi/nei gung
> master.
> > I look forward to hearing from anyone about their fantastic
> stories.
1152 From: "PamelaP" <pamela@rabboar.com>
Date: Fri Jul 1, 2005 9:51am
Subject: RE: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters pamelaporch
Offline
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As far as I understand it, the siddhis are secondary "happenings" and not to
be taken too seriously -- i.e. we shouldn't try for them or think that once
we attain them we have it all. It is like climbing a tree -- getting to the
first branch may be a big accomplishment, and have a pretty good view, and
impressive to those still on the ground, but it is not really important when
the top offers so much more.
So I think Melissa is right -- those who have it don't demonstrate it
because a big deal shouldn't be made of it.
IMHO
Pamela P.
Well, there's my input. I hesitated to write anything about this,
but I just thought people should be aware that they do exist, or at
the very least, that there are crazy people like myself that believe
this to be true! ;-) I suspect that there are likely more souls
such as this - perhaps in India - that do not readily demonstrate
siddhis to observers.
Melissa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1153 From: "david_obsidian1" <david_obsidian1@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jul 1, 2005 9:47am
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters david_obsidian1
Offline
Send Email
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Hello David and all -
>
> A good dose of skepticism is a good thing. However, I do have a
> friend who is a 3rd degree initiate and quite psychic. I asked her
> once why she didn't try to go for the million and she said that it
> is been there for years and they go out of their way to discredit
> people.
Hello Mellissa,
it isn't actually true that they 'go out of their way to discredit
people'. They merely require the 'powers' to be demonstrated
conclusively. Imagine if I showed you a magic glass egg of a
substance harder than any in the universe that can't possibly break,
and set up a machine of _my_making_ that tried to break the egg and
failed. Would you be convinced so far? And what if you asked if you
could use your own machine to test it, or merely have a chance to
smash it with a hammer? And I said, ummmm, this egg is too
precious to.... um --- or, dying gasp, that the world is not ready
to really see how strong this egg is --- would you still believe me?
Mellissa, the real truth is I think that the psychic in question
knows that she cannot perform according to their standards of test.
Wouldn't she really * love * to be able to demonstrate to the world
that psychic powers exist, and maybe to have $1 million to divide
between herself and her favorite charities?
All right, there is an out --- that these powers cannot be called
upon at will; in other words, they come to people on a purely
according-to-need basis. I have no doubt that this person you know
is gifted --isn't there is also a possibility that she just has
deeply enhanced intuition?
Best regards,
-David
1166 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Fri Jul 1, 2005 5:17pm
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters mm78102002
Offline
Send Email
Hello David -
According to what she has told me, she does not wish to "prove" her
skills to anyone, nor does she really seem to care for others to
know about her abilities; she only uses them to help people in
certain needed situations. No, she is not interested in the $1
million. I wondered why myself (I mean hey, if *I* could do that,
sure, I would go for the $1 million!) - that is what she told me. I
have seen her demonstrate clearly to me that she she can see
things. In fact, she reconstructed a duplicate of my house without
furniture in it on the astral and she had never even been in my
house before (we live in different states). People who can do this
just don't think like we "ordinary" folks do - they seem to be on a
much higher level and have totally different priorities. Something
to think about, no?
Melissa
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
<david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > Hello David and all -
> >
> > A good dose of skepticism is a good thing. However, I do have a
> > friend who is a 3rd degree initiate and quite psychic. I asked
her
> > once why she didn't try to go for the million and she said that
it
> > is been there for years and they go out of their way to
discredit
> > people.
>
> Hello Mellissa,
>
> it isn't actually true that they 'go out of their way to discredit
> people'. They merely require the 'powers' to be demonstrated
> conclusively. Imagine if I showed you a magic glass egg of a
> substance harder than any in the universe that can't possibly
break,
> and set up a machine of _my_making_ that tried to break the egg
and
> failed. Would you be convinced so far? And what if you asked if
you
> could use your own machine to test it, or merely have a chance to
> smash it with a hammer? And I said, ummmm, this egg is too
> precious to.... um --- or, dying gasp, that the world is not
ready
> to really see how strong this egg is --- would you still believe
me?
>
> Mellissa, the real truth is I think that the psychic in question
> knows that she cannot perform according to their standards of
test.
> Wouldn't she really * love * to be able to demonstrate to the
world
> that psychic powers exist, and maybe to have $1 million to divide
> between herself and her favorite charities?
>
> All right, there is an out --- that these powers cannot be called
> upon at will; in other words, they come to people on a purely
> according-to-need basis. I have no doubt that this person you
know
> is gifted --isn't there is also a possibility that she just has
> deeply enhanced intuition?
>
> Best regards,
>
> -David
1168 From: "david_obsidian1" <david_obsidian1@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jul 1, 2005 5:57pm
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters david_obsidian1
Offline
Send Email
Hello Melissa,
thanks for getting into the fray with me here. It's good to have
something of a discussion, and to be challenged.
> No, she is not interested in the $1
> million. I wondered why myself (I mean hey, if *I* could do that,
> sure, I would go for the $1 million!) - that is what she told me.
Honestly, I think that's just a really convenient answer coming from
her side. I'm not sure you are challenging her in the right way.
What if you asked her, very simply and directly, if she *is able*
to reproduce her 'powers' to Randi's standards, what do you think
her answer would be?
Would she avoid the answer, or convert it, or brush it aside, say
it isn't relevant or something, answer a question that looks similar
but is not the same, like politicians do, or would she answer
directly, yes or no?
It's one thing to say 'humble' things on the one hand, to say you
aren't interested in proving anything, to say you are no better than
anyone else, it's another thing on the other hand to actually allow
yourself to be brought down from a pedestal; it's another thing to
actually answer things in a way that brings you down from the
pedestal when those things are true. The world is full of all
sortsa 'humble' 'Oh-I'm-no-guru-I'm-just-an-ordinary-guy-gal-like-you-
-or-like-your-own-inner-self' gurus who will do one but not the
other. Such people officially repudiate their specialness on the one
hand actively cultivate it on the other.
If her answer is 'no', (and I really don't expect an honest one) end
of discussion, I thought so. If her answer is yes, then we need to
bring her a little further....
We need to make a distinction between showing powers for your
personal gain and doing it for the good of humanity, for the
advancement of science.
What I would say to such a person is, absolutely, don't do it for
personal gain --- in fact give Mother Teresa's cause the $1 million,
and many starving homeless children on the streets of Calcutta will
thank you for it --- and also do it to Advance Science!!
Psychics are always complaining that Science is too 'narrow-minded',
incredulous etc; science has never been narrow-minded or incredulous
and never will be, in fact it has always been nothing more than
judicious in dealing with our ability to deceive ourselves.....
Tell here that she is in a position to advance the Science that
psychics are complaining about and that you say will 'catch up in
time' --- tell her that she is in a position to let it catch up
fast, straight away in fact, within 48 hours in fact. I'm telling
you, science will bow humbly before a genuine demonstration of such
powers and the entire world will be changed for the better.
If this is true, that people can do such things, the world needs to
know.
Tell her about this, and see what she says.
All in a good spirit,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Hello David -
>
> According to what she has told me, she does not wish to "prove" her
> skills to anyone, nor does she really seem to care for others to
> know about her abilities; she only uses them to help people in
> certain needed situations. I
> have seen her demonstrate clearly to me that she she can see
> things. In fact, she reconstructed a duplicate of my house without
> furniture in it on the astral and she had never even been in my
> house before (we live in different states). People who can do
this
> just don't think like we "ordinary" folks do - they seem to be on a
> much higher level and have totally different priorities. Something
> to think about, no?
>
> Melissa
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
> <david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > > Hello David and all -
> > >
> > > A good dose of skepticism is a good thing. However, I do have
a
> > > friend who is a 3rd degree initiate and quite psychic. I asked
> her
> > > once why she didn't try to go for the million and she said that
> it
> > > is been there for years and they go out of their way to
> discredit
> > > people.
> >
> > Hello Mellissa,
> >
> > it isn't actually true that they 'go out of their way to
discredit
> > people'. They merely require the 'powers' to be demonstrated
> > conclusively. Imagine if I showed you a magic glass egg of a
> > substance harder than any in the universe that can't possibly
> break,
> > and set up a machine of _my_making_ that tried to break the egg
> and
> > failed. Would you be convinced so far? And what if you asked if
> you
> > could use your own machine to test it, or merely have a chance
to
> > smash it with a hammer? And I said, ummmm, this egg is too
> > precious to.... um --- or, dying gasp, that the world is not
> ready
> > to really see how strong this egg is --- would you still believe
> me?
> >
> > Mellissa, the real truth is I think that the psychic in question
> > knows that she cannot perform according to their standards of
> test.
> > Wouldn't she really * love * to be able to demonstrate to the
> world
> > that psychic powers exist, and maybe to have $1 million to
divide
> > between herself and her favorite charities?
> >
> > All right, there is an out --- that these powers cannot be
called
> > upon at will; in other words, they come to people on a purely
> > according-to-need basis. I have no doubt that this person you
> know
> > is gifted --isn't there is also a possibility that she just has
> > deeply enhanced intuition?
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > -David
1170 From: "Melissa" <mm7810@gmail.com>
Date: Fri Jul 1, 2005 8:47pm
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters mm78102002
Offline
Send Email
Hello again David -
I am sorry, but I have no desire to challenge her. I have seen
enough of what she can do to be convinced myself, and quite frankly,
it would be extremely rude of me to do so since I do know what she
is capable of she knows that I know that. I have only given a few
examples here just to state my opinion that yes, I do believe
certain people posses these powers. Whether you believe it or not
is up to you. That is why I said before that it often needs to be
an experiential thing [personal experience, that is]. I guess you
could say something similar for the AYP practices as well; to
the "average Joe" we probably seem like a bunch of silly people who
have nothing better to do than sit around and say "Om" - that is
what one friend told me once - lol. Anyway, back on topic . . .
She really does not care what people think of her and detests
exactly the arguements which you are making. In fact, if she knew I
was even talking about this, she would likely not approve. Like I
said, people like this think differently, actually on a higher level
IMO.
Another example - this time I will leave my friend out of the
equation. Just a few months ago my own mother who has not a single
psychic bone in her body called me all frantic one day to tell me
about a "vision" she had where I was in great danger. Without going
into the details here on this board, her description of the events
fit to a "T" something which had happened to me that I would have
rather her not known about. Now, if my own "Let's bake cookies for
the youth group mother" can fall into some type of slipstream [for
lack of a better term] and see what was going on with me, then why
could not someone who was more spiritually advanced do things like
this all the time? I understand that yes, there are a multitude of
frauds out there, but the original question to this thread related
to people possessing certain powers and I have given *my* opion and
examples of 3 different people from my own experience as to why I
hold said opinion.
Discussion on various topics is a good thing, but I fear that this
may become a circular argument and I hope we can let "the fray" rest
with our own opinions intact in a respectful manner.
Take care,
Melissa
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
<david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
>
> Hello Melissa,
>
> thanks for getting into the fray with me here. It's good to have
> something of a discussion, and to be challenged.
>
> > No, she is not interested in the $1
> > million. I wondered why myself (I mean hey, if *I* could do
that,
> > sure, I would go for the $1 million!) - that is what she told me.
>
> Honestly, I think that's just a really convenient answer coming
from
> her side. I'm not sure you are challenging her in the right
way.
> What if you asked her, very simply and directly, if she *is
able*
> to reproduce her 'powers' to Randi's standards, what do you think
> her answer would be?
>
> Would she avoid the answer, or convert it, or brush it aside,
say
> it isn't relevant or something, answer a question that looks
similar
> but is not the same, like politicians do, or would she answer
> directly, yes or no?
>
> It's one thing to say 'humble' things on the one hand, to say
you
> aren't interested in proving anything, to say you are no better
than
> anyone else, it's another thing on the other hand to actually
allow
> yourself to be brought down from a pedestal; it's another thing
to
> actually answer things in a way that brings you down from the
> pedestal when those things are true. The world is full of all
> sortsa 'humble' 'Oh-I'm-no-guru-I'm-just-an-ordinary-guy-gal-like-
you-
> -or-like-your-own-inner-self' gurus who will do one but not the
> other. Such people officially repudiate their specialness on the
one
> hand actively cultivate it on the other.
>
> If her answer is 'no', (and I really don't expect an honest one)
end
> of discussion, I thought so. If her answer is yes, then we need
to
> bring her a little further....
>
> We need to make a distinction between showing powers for your
> personal gain and doing it for the good of humanity, for the
> advancement of science.
>
> What I would say to such a person is, absolutely, don't do it
for
> personal gain --- in fact give Mother Teresa's cause the $1
million,
> and many starving homeless children on the streets of Calcutta
will
> thank you for it --- and also do it to Advance Science!!
>
> Psychics are always complaining that Science is too 'narrow-
minded',
> incredulous etc; science has never been narrow-minded or
incredulous
> and never will be, in fact it has always been nothing more than
> judicious in dealing with our ability to deceive ourselves.....
>
> Tell here that she is in a position to advance the Science that
> psychics are complaining about and that you say will 'catch up in
> time' --- tell her that she is in a position to let it catch up
> fast, straight away in fact, within 48 hours in fact. I'm
telling
> you, science will bow humbly before a genuine demonstration of
such
> powers and the entire world will be changed for the better.
>
> If this is true, that people can do such things, the world needs
to
> know.
>
> Tell her about this, and see what she says.
>
> All in a good spirit,
>
> -David
>
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > Hello David -
> >
> > According to what she has told me, she does not wish to "prove"
her
> > skills to anyone, nor does she really seem to care for others to
> > know about her abilities; she only uses them to help people in
> > certain needed situations. I
> > have seen her demonstrate clearly to me that she she can see
> > things. In fact, she reconstructed a duplicate of my house
without
> > furniture in it on the astral and she had never even been in my
> > house before (we live in different states). People who can do
> this
> > just don't think like we "ordinary" folks do - they seem to be
on a
> > much higher level and have totally different priorities.
Something
> > to think about, no?
> >
> > Melissa
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
> > <david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > > > Hello David and all -
> > > >
> > > > A good dose of skepticism is a good thing. However, I do
have
> a
> > > > friend who is a 3rd degree initiate and quite psychic. I
asked
> > her
> > > > once why she didn't try to go for the million and she said
that
> > it
> > > > is been there for years and they go out of their way to
> > discredit
> > > > people.
> > >
> > > Hello Mellissa,
> > >
> > > it isn't actually true that they 'go out of their way to
> discredit
> > > people'. They merely require the 'powers' to be demonstrated
> > > conclusively. Imagine if I showed you a magic glass egg of a
> > > substance harder than any in the universe that can't possibly
> > break,
> > > and set up a machine of _my_making_ that tried to break the
egg
> > and
> > > failed. Would you be convinced so far? And what if you asked
if
> > you
> > > could use your own machine to test it, or merely have a
chance
> to
> > > smash it with a hammer? And I said, ummmm, this egg is too
> > > precious to.... um --- or, dying gasp, that the world is
not
> > ready
> > > to really see how strong this egg is --- would you still
believe
> > me?
> > >
> > > Mellissa, the real truth is I think that the psychic in
question
> > > knows that she cannot perform according to their standards of
> > test.
> > > Wouldn't she really * love * to be able to demonstrate to the
> > world
> > > that psychic powers exist, and maybe to have $1 million to
> divide
> > > between herself and her favorite charities?
> > >
> > > All right, there is an out --- that these powers cannot be
> called
> > > upon at will; in other words, they come to people on a
purely
> > > according-to-need basis. I have no doubt that this person you
> > know
> > > is gifted --isn't there is also a possibility that she just
has
> > > deeply enhanced intuition?
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > -David
1173 From: "david_obsidian1" <david_obsidian1@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jul 2, 2005 1:17am
Subject: Re: Nei Gung Masters/Yoga masters david_obsidian1
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> I hope we can let "the fray" rest
> with our own opinions intact in a respectful manner.
Nah, the board is the board. :) You just never have to
*answer*, or even *read* what someone says. But don't ask me to
drop the thread. I have some of your points to respond to. The
board is for me too....
We have reams and reams of unused paper ahead of us here at AYP.
And noone has to read a word of it if they don't want to! :)
By the way, I'm not actually saying I'm convinced that paranormal
powers don't exist. I just don't believe that anyone can reproduce
them consistenly enough to prove that thy have them.
> She really does not care what people think of her and detests
> exactly the arguements which you are making. In fact, if she knew
I
> was even talking about this, she would likely not approve. Like I
> said, people like this think differently, actually on a higher
level
> IMO.
I've never known anyone, ever, operating on a higher level, to
detest a challenge which comes from a passion for truth;
detestation, dismissal and disapproval of challenges are a very low
road. Convincing with reason and/or demonstration are a very high
one.
People are very free to challenge me about any aspect of AYP by the
way. I do care about what they think, but not in the bad way of
having a deep need to be believed by them, or to have their
approval --- I care about how they think because if they are
uninformed, there is opportunity for me to lead them to
understand. And I particularly care about those who have a passion
for knowing what is true and what is not. If it is an important
matter, I'll use *all* forms of proofs available to me to convince
them of their mistakes.
I agree with a lot that Jim said on an earlier post about enhanced
intuition. I think a lot of psychics are people who have the
ability to operate from there most of the time. And maybe
occasionally they get into some sort of 'slipstream' to higher
consciousness, as you say your mother did. But I don't believe
that they can demonstrate, to scientific standards, any ability to
consistently produce anything beyond enhanced intuition. The
ability to get consistently into some sort of truly paranormal
consciousness is beyond them. I think they more or less half-know
that it is beyond them (though don't necessarily admit it to
themselves in such terms) and that is why they do not rise to the
obviously great and deeply important task of informing the world in
this very, very important matter.
And enhanced intuition may well be a very important thing.....
Peace to you Melissa with your beliefs on this! (if you are still
reading --- and even more peace if you stopped)! There is room for
lots of opinions here --- and room for lots of debate. May we both
find the truth on this.
Regards all,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> Hello again David -
>
> I am sorry, but I have no desire to challenge her. I have seen
> enough of what she can do to be convinced myself, and quite
frankly,
> it would be extremely rude of me to do so since I do know what she
> is capable of she knows that I know that. I have only given a few
> examples here just to state my opinion that yes, I do believe
> certain people posses these powers. Whether you believe it or not
> is up to you. That is why I said before that it often needs to be
> an experiential thing [personal experience, that is]. I guess you
> could say something similar for the AYP practices as well; to
> the "average Joe" we probably seem like a bunch of silly people
who
> have nothing better to do than sit around and say "Om" - that is
> what one friend told me once - lol. Anyway, back on topic . . .
> She really does not care what people think of her and detests
> exactly the arguements which you are making. In fact, if she knew
I
> was even talking about this, she would likely not approve. Like I
> said, people like this think differently, actually on a higher
level
> IMO.
>
> Another example - this time I will leave my friend out of the
> equation. Just a few months ago my own mother who has not a
single
> psychic bone in her body called me all frantic one day to tell me
> about a "vision" she had where I was in great danger. Without
going
> into the details here on this board, her description of the events
> fit to a "T" something which had happened to me that I would have
> rather her not known about. Now, if my own "Let's bake cookies
for
> the youth group mother" can fall into some type of slipstream [for
> lack of a better term] and see what was going on with me, then why
> could not someone who was more spiritually advanced do things like
> this all the time? I understand that yes, there are a multitude
of
> frauds out there, but the original question to this thread related
> to people possessing certain powers and I have given *my* opion
and
> examples of 3 different people from my own experience as to why I
> hold said opinion.
>
> Discussion on various topics is a good thing, but I fear that this
> may become a circular argument and I hope we can let "the fray"
rest
> with our own opinions intact in a respectful manner.
>
> Take care,
>
> Melissa
>
> --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
> <david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Melissa,
> >
> > thanks for getting into the fray with me here. It's good to
have
> > something of a discussion, and to be challenged.
> >
> > > No, she is not interested in the $1
> > > million. I wondered why myself (I mean hey, if *I* could do
> that,
> > > sure, I would go for the $1 million!) - that is what she told
me.
> >
> > Honestly, I think that's just a really convenient answer coming
> from
> > her side. I'm not sure you are challenging her in the right
> way.
> > What if you asked her, very simply and directly, if she *is
> able*
> > to reproduce her 'powers' to Randi's standards, what do you
think
> > her answer would be?
> >
> > Would she avoid the answer, or convert it, or brush it aside,
> say
> > it isn't relevant or something, answer a question that looks
> similar
> > but is not the same, like politicians do, or would she answer
> > directly, yes or no?
> >
> > It's one thing to say 'humble' things on the one hand, to say
> you
> > aren't interested in proving anything, to say you are no better
> than
> > anyone else, it's another thing on the other hand to actually
> allow
> > yourself to be brought down from a pedestal; it's another thing
> to
> > actually answer things in a way that brings you down from the
> > pedestal when those things are true. The world is full of all
> > sortsa 'humble' 'Oh-I'm-no-guru-I'm-just-an-ordinary-guy-gal-
like-
> you-
> > -or-like-your-own-inner-self' gurus who will do one but not the
> > other. Such people officially repudiate their specialness on
the
> one
> > hand actively cultivate it on the other.
> >
> > If her answer is 'no', (and I really don't expect an honest
one)
> end
> > of discussion, I thought so. If her answer is yes, then we
need
> to
> > bring her a little further....
> >
> > We need to make a distinction between showing powers for your
> > personal gain and doing it for the good of humanity, for the
> > advancement of science.
> >
> > What I would say to such a person is, absolutely, don't do it
> for
> > personal gain --- in fact give Mother Teresa's cause the $1
> million,
> > and many starving homeless children on the streets of Calcutta
> will
> > thank you for it --- and also do it to Advance Science!!
> >
> > Psychics are always complaining that Science is too 'narrow-
> minded',
> > incredulous etc; science has never been narrow-minded or
> incredulous
> > and never will be, in fact it has always been nothing more than
> > judicious in dealing with our ability to deceive ourselves.....
> >
> > Tell here that she is in a position to advance the Science that
> > psychics are complaining about and that you say will 'catch up
in
> > time' --- tell her that she is in a position to let it catch up
> > fast, straight away in fact, within 48 hours in fact. I'm
> telling
> > you, science will bow humbly before a genuine demonstration of
> such
> > powers and the entire world will be changed for the better.
> >
> > If this is true, that people can do such things, the world
needs
> to
> > know.
> >
> > Tell her about this, and see what she says.
> >
> > All in a good spirit,
> >
> > -David
> >
> >
> > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...> wrote:
> > > Hello David -
> > >
> > > According to what she has told me, she does not wish
to "prove"
> her
> > > skills to anyone, nor does she really seem to care for others
to
> > > know about her abilities; she only uses them to help people in
> > > certain needed situations. I
> > > have seen her demonstrate clearly to me that she she can see
> > > things. In fact, she reconstructed a duplicate of my house
> without
> > > furniture in it on the astral and she had never even been in
my
> > > house before (we live in different states). People who can
do
> > this
> > > just don't think like we "ordinary" folks do - they seem to be
> on a
> > > much higher level and have totally different priorities.
> Something
> > > to think about, no?
> > >
> > > Melissa
> > >
> > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "david_obsidian1"
> > > <david_obsidian1@y...> wrote:
> > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "Melissa" <mm7810@g...>
wrote:
> > > > > Hello David and all -
> > > > >
> > > > > A good dose of skepticism is a good thing. However, I do
> have
> > a
> > > > > friend who is a 3rd degree initiate and quite psychic. I
> asked
> > > her
> > > > > once why she didn't try to go for the million and she said
> that
> > > it
> > > > > is been there for years and they go out of their way to
> > > discredit
> > > > > people.
> > > >
> > > > Hello Mellissa,
> > > >
> > > > it isn't actually true that they 'go out of their way to
> > discredit
> > > > people'. They merely require the 'powers' to be
demonstrated
> > > > conclusively. Imagine if I showed you a magic glass egg of
a
> > > > substance harder than any in the universe that can't
possibly
> > > break,
> > > > and set up a machine of _my_making_ that tried to break the
> egg
> > > and
> > > > failed. Would you be convinced so far? And what if you
asked
> if
> > > you
> > > > could use your own machine to test it, or merely have a
> chance
> > to
> > > > smash it with a hammer? And I said, ummmm, this egg is
too
> > > > precious to.... um --- or, dying gasp, that the world is
> not
> > > ready
> > > > to really see how strong this egg is --- would you still
> believe
> > > me?
> > > >
> > > > Mellissa, the real truth is I think that the psychic in
> question
> > > > knows that she cannot perform according to their standards
of
> > > test.
> > > > Wouldn't she really * love * to be able to demonstrate to
the
> > > world
> > > > that psychic powers exist, and maybe to have $1 million to
> > divide
> > > > between herself and her favorite charities?
> > > >
> > > > All right, there is an out --- that these powers cannot be
> > called
> > > > upon at will; in other words, they come to people on a
> purely
> > > > according-to-need basis. I have no doubt that this person
you
> > > know
> > > > is gifted --isn't there is also a possibility that she just
> has
> > > > deeply enhanced intuition?
> > > >
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > -David
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