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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 15 2007 : 07:49:04 AM
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| I'm depressed to see my I.Q. score (around 120) from online tests which says I'm just above average intelligence. Has onyone improved their I.Q. score as a result of Yoga? |
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Zelebe
Netherlands
35 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2007 : 2:40:52 PM
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Why be depressed about your IQ score? You can be brilliant with a very high IQ, but if that makes you feel isolated, lonely or unhappy, what good is it? Do you think you're stupid with a score of 120? I think it's not bad |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 16 2007 : 5:48:53 PM
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Hi Maximus,
I agree with Zelebe. I would say that IQ has quite little to do with spiritual progress. One can advance perfectly well on the spiritual path with a low IQ. And a person with a high IQ may not have much interest in spiritual things and may want to use their intellectual talents for that or other purposes instead. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2007 : 07:22:12 AM
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| Spiritual progress can and should coexist with wordly success otherwise it will be not practisable for many people. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2007 : 10:37:02 AM
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Maximus, actually I have found that since starting with AYP my thinking has become clearer with less distracting thoughts (or feelings), making me able to interact more efficiently in worldly situations, so from that point of view one can say that worldly progress can follow spiritual progress. But I haven't seen any reason to take a regular IQ test.
The concept of intelligence vs. yoga has also been discussed here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1673 |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2007 : 10:59:06 AM
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I'm depressed to see my I.Q. score (around 120) from online tests which says I'm just above average intelligence. Has onyone improved their I.Q. score as a result of Yoga?
FWIW, Maximus, a score like this is high: a score like this means you are likely to be able to achieve high competence in almost all IQ-demanding professions, apart from some specialized ones.
Your score is higher than that of 90% of people. Put a thousand random people in a hall -- your score is among the top 100.
If that doesn't make you feel better, you may be able to take some solace from this lovely song by Monty Python:
Title: The Idiot Song
From: The Album, Monty Python Live at Drury Lane
Transcribed By: Tak Ariga
How sweet to be an Idiot,
As harmless as a cloud,
Too small to hide the sun
Almost poking fun,
At the warm but insecure untidy crowd.
How sweet to be an idiot,
And dip my brain in joy,
Children laughing at my back,
With no fear of attack,
As much retaliation as a toy.
How sweet to be an idiot, how sweet.
....
But I still love you, still love you,
Oooh how sweet to be an idiot,
How sweet. how sweet. How sweet.
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2007 : 7:58:21 PM
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I have questioned the validity of many so-called Intelligence Quotient (I.Q.) Tests for many years time now. The following article was interesting in this regard.
TESTING FOR INTELLIGENCE
Many psychologists agree with Robert Sternberg that three characteristics encompass intelligence: possession of knowledge, ability to efficiently use knowledge to reason, and ability to employ that reasoning adaptively in different environments.
A Brief History of Intelligence Tests
Alfred Binet's original test included a series of age-graded items that demonstrated differences among children in reasoning, judgment, and problem-solving abilities. Children who answered questions at their age level were considered of "regular" intelligence. Louis Terman developed the Stanford-Binet test, devised a scoring method known as the intelligence quotient (IQ), and created the IQ test, which included questions for adults. Despite cultural biases, IQ tests were given to screen immigrants and to place soldiers in appropriate assignments. David Wechsler developed a new test that was made up of several subtests. Wechsler's test reduced the extent to which answers depended on a certain culture and had some subtests that had little or no verbal content.
Intelligence Tests Today
The Wechsler test, which is designed to be administered individually, includes the verbal scale and the performance scale.
The average result obtained by people at each age level is assigned an intelligence quotient, or IQ score, of 100. Each individual's score is compared to the average for his or her age level in order to compute an IQ. Therefore, an IQ score is a relative measurement.
Aptitude and Achievement Tests
These two types of tests are closely related to intelligence tests. Aptitude tests are designed to gauge a person's ability to learn or do certain things. Achievement tests measure how much a person already knows in a certain area.
MEASURING THE QUALITY OF TESTS
Tests have two advantages over other means of evaluation: they are standardized so that different people's performances can be compared, and they are quantifiable (which allows the calculation of norms).
Reliability
If a test has reliability, a person will receive about the same score when tested on different occasions. There are three methods of checking the reliability of a test: test-retest, alternate-form, and split-half reliability. If the correlation coefficient between two scores is high and positive, the test is considered reliable.
Validity
A test that has validity measures what it is designed to measure. There are several measures of validity, including content validity, criterion validity, and predictive validity.
EVALUATING IQ TESTS
The Reliability and Validity of IQ Tests
How Reliable Are IQ Tests? IQ tests usually provide consistent results. However, test-retest reliability can be low if the initial testing is done prior to seven years of age. The testing conditions and the person's motivation when taking the test can also affect results.
How Valid Are IQ Tests? The validity of IQ tests is difficult to measure, in part because intelligence itself is difficult to define. IQ tests do a reasonably good job of predicting academic and job success, but scores can be distorted by the response to the tester.
How Fair Are IQ Tests? Controversy about the fairness of IQ tests continues, especially in terms of cultural factors. Although many of the technical problems in IQ tests have been solved, the social consequences of testing should be evaluated.
Thinking Critically: Are IQ Tests Unfairly Biased Against Certain Groups? What am I being asking to believe or accept? Intelligence tests are biased against some minority groups. What evidence is available to support the assertion? Differences in IQ scores may reflect motivation and a person's trust in the test administrator. Some tests are not "culture fair." People may interpret the test questions intelligently but differently than the defined "right" answer. Are there alternative ways of interpreting the evidence?
Intelligence tests may be biased in assessing general intelligence, but they may still be good predictors of who will do well in school or on the job.
What conclusions are most reasonable?
Current tests, while not completely culture fair, can be useful as predictors of success in the culture in which they are administered. Psychologists should also spend time developing alternative tests based on problem-solving skills and more open-ended questions.
IQ Scores as a Measure of Innate Ability
The influences of heredity and the environment interact to produce intelligence. Correlational studies with twins suggest that heredity influences the development of IQ. However, the environment also exerts a strong influence on IQ. Previously underprivileged children placed in homes that provide an enriching intellectual environment have shown moderate but consistent increases in IQ. And children placed in enrichment programs show improved health, academic achievements, and intellectual skills.
Group Differences in IQ Scores
An examination of the differences among group means on IQ tests does not provide information about specific individuals in those groups. A person in the low score group may have an individual score that is much higher than a person from the high score group. In addition, inherited features may be influenced by the environment.
Socioeconomic Differences. A child's ability is influenced by genetic factors and perhaps by the effects of the parents' occupation and education on the home environment. Also, higher-income families may encourage a higher level of motivation to succeed.
Ethnic Differences. There is variation in average IQ scores between ethnic groups, but more variation within groups. Research indicates that differences in IQ among ethnic groups may be due to differences in socioeconomic environment, parental education, nutrition, health care, and schools. Also, people in some cultures may be more or less motivated during testing, depending on the value their cultures place on education or intelligence.
Conditions That Can Raise IQ Scores
Enrichment programs such as Head Start can cause at least temporary gains in IQ scores. Spending time in projects such as Head Start may cause a child to be more motivated and have a better attitude toward school.
IQ Scores in the Classroom
IQ scores may influence teachers' expectations about the abilities of their students. In turn, these expectancies may influence students' performance. But IQ scores can also help educators identify student strengths and weaknesses and offer a curriculum that will best serve the students.
Linkages: Emotionality and the Measurement of Cognitive Abilities
People tend to perform at their best when their arousal level is moderate. Too much or too little arousal will result in decreased performance. Those whose arousal inhibits their performance in testing are said to suffer from text anxiety. Concern over negative stereotypes about the mental abilities of the group to which they belong can impair test performance of some members of ethnic minorities. In sum, people who are severely anxious about testing will not perform to the best of their ability.
UNDERSTANDING INTELLIGENCE
The Psychometric Approach
The psychometric approach tries to describe the structure of intelligence by examining the correlations among scores on various tests. Charles Spearman postulated two types of intelligence that account for test scores: general intelligence or g; and special intelligences, or s, which are the specific skills and knowledge needed to answer the questions on a particular test. L. L. Thurstone disagreed. He used factor analysis, a statistical technique, to find several independent primary mental abilities, including numerical ability, reasoning, verbal fluency, spatial visualization, perceptual ability, memory, and verbal comprehension. Later, Raymond B. Cattell argued that g exists and that it consists of fluid intelligence and crystallized intelligence. Most psychologists agree that there is g. They just do not agree on what g is.
The Information-Processing Approach
Psychologists using the information-processing approach have tried to understand intelligence by examining the mental processes involved in intelligent behavior. Research suggests that those with greater intellectual ability have more attentional resources available when performing a task. Speed of basic processing plays only a small role in determining intelligent behavior.
The Triarchic Theory of Intelligence
Robert Sternberg proposed the triarchic theory of intelligence: analytic, creative, and practical. In this view, intelligence is composed of internal components, the relation of components to the external world, and adaptation to the environment. The internal components are performance components, knowledge-acquisition components, and metacomponents.
The first two components are the information-processing capacities of perceiving stimuli, holding information in working (short-term) memory, performing transformations on that information, and retrieving information from memory. Metacomponents are the processes involved in organizing and setting up a problem. The relationship between components and the external world is the ability to profit from experience. Adaptation to the environment can be thought of as "street smarts."
Multiple Intelligences
In his theory of multiple intelligences, Howard Gardner proposed that certain abilities are relatively independent of one another and that individuals may develop some "intelligences" more highly than others. Gardner suggested eight different intelligences: linguistic, logical-mathematical, spatial, musical, body-kinesthetic, intrapersonal (self-knowledge), interpersonal (social skills), and naturalistic.
Focus on Research Methods: Tracking Cognitive Abilities over the Life Span
Age-related changes in mental abilities can be examined through cross-sectional and longitudinal studies. The cross-sequential with resampling design combines cross-sectional and longitudinal studies. Results show that crystallized intelligence may continue to grow into old age. Fluid intelligence remains stable in adulthood and then declines in late life. Specifically, problems in working memory, processing speed, problem-solving strategy organization, flexibility, and control of attention appear late in life.
DIVERSITY IN COGNITIVE ABILITIES
Creativity
Creativity is often assessed by tests of divergent thinking, which measure the ability to generate many different but plausible responses to a problem. Expertise in the field, a set of creative skills, and intrinsic motivation are necessary for creativity. External rewards can deter creativity. The correlation between IQ scores and creativity is not very high. IQ tests measure convergent thinking, whereas creativity is characterized by divergent thinking.
Unusual Cognitive Ability
Giftedness. Those with extremely high IQs do not necessarily become creative geniuses. They do, however, usually become very successful in this society or culture.
Mental Retardation. This label is applied to people whose IQs are 70 or below and who fail at daily living skills. Mental retardation sometimes has very specific causes, such as Down syndrome. In most cases of familial retardation, there is no specific cause. Psychologists believe familial retardation results from an interaction between heredity and the environment. Children with mild retardation differ from other children in three ways: they perform certain mental operations more slowly, they know fewer facts about the world, and they are not very good at using particular mental strategies in learning and problem solving. In general, children with mental retardation are deficient in metacognition.
Learning Disabilities. People with learning disabilities have academic performance that doesn't measure up to their measured intelligence. People with dyslexia see letters as distorted or jumbled. Dysphasia is difficulty in understanding spoken words. In dysgraphia a person has trouble writing, while in dyscalculia a person has trouble with arithmetic.
And here's a few pics of my favorite, quintessential idiot:
http://www.leconcombre.com/alfred/i...an_thumb.jpg
http://recollectionbooks.com/bleed/...dENeuman.jpg
http://www.blackmarketgold.com/pix/neuman.jpg
Doc
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Leo
Italy
16 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2007 : 03:31:27 AM
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I think, judging by experience, that worldly success hasn't much to do with intelligence.
In high school I was rated as one of the most intelligent guys .... in spite of this, I've seen many of my fellows, who at that time weren't successful and could hardly pass an exams, go ahead an get a successful life in spite of all the previsions ... On the other side, when I started University, I fell behind no matter what my "intelligence" , at the point that I had to give up .
I think intelligence is not the same during life, it depends on mood too, so if you emprove your mood you emprove your intelligence, and practices like AYP sure give a big help in that direction.
More , I agree with Doc when he expresses doubts about IQ tests .
quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
Spiritual progress can and should coexist with wordly success otherwise it will be not practisable for many people.
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Mar 20 2007 : 09:47:34 AM
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Hi All:
Here is an AYP lesson on "Intelligence, Bhakti and Genius":
http://www.aypsite.org/246.html
Enjoy!
The guru is in you. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Mar 21 2007 : 1:25:55 PM
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Hi Yogani
I read the lesson. It took me completely by suprise as I have never come across this definition of Genius. I have spent countless hours in my life comparing myself with others in various kinds of intelligence - guys who are better solving problems than me, guys who got into better colleges than me, guys who got better jobs than me, guys who have better social abilities than me, guys who attract women better than me, etc. All this comparison only make me miserable, making me feel 'ungifted'. I have always imagined a genius as that guy with a prodigal gift that gives him unfair edge over others, and has a sweatless face and emotionless laid back attitude - so perfect that he somewhat looks 'unhuman'.
Your definition of Genius however make me feel good. You say " genius is more about relentless devotion to one's ideal than about one's inherent intelligence". I have that devotion though I may not have inherent abilities that give me an edge. Wow, I'm a genius!
I have not yet completely digested your lesson and will ponder over it more. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2007 : 09:26:25 AM
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I have a practical question relevant to my personal life as regards to "Intelligence does what i can, Genius does what it should". and your replies could be very useful to me. I have discovered that I lack interpersonal skills due to the life conditions I have been through, and I have no close friends. I have come to stage in life where I feel I must correct this one. I'm a software employee. The workplace I'm in is not very technically challenging work but has a friendly atmosphere (with more parties etc) which I believe could be put to proper use in developing personality skills. This is the "what I should part".
I got through the interview process and got offer from a company which does much more technically challenging kind of work, and pays more. But the ambience there is such that the average age is higher, employee count is less, and there is not much social interactions happening. This is the "what I can" part. I mean I got through the tough selection process using my skills which perhaps means I deserve better pay and can do more challenging work but I feel it is not going to help me in what I really need in my life.
What would be your advice? |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2007 : 11:04:39 AM
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Hi Maximus,
The answer to what workplace you should choose is not obvious and nobody should attempt to tell you what is correct. The answer can not come from an outside source, it must come from within yourself. You can do some serious thinking (or contemplation or prayer) on what you really want to get out of life. You may arrive at the conclusion that you either want to (give priority to) developing your technical skills, or your interpersonal skills. The best thing would be if you could visit both workplaces, then you could get a feel or intuition on which would be the right place for you.
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Nirodha
New Zealand
86 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2007 : 11:50:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
I'm depressed to see my I.Q. score (around 120) from online tests which says I'm just above average intelligence. Has onyone improved their I.Q. score as a result of Yoga?
Hi Maximus,
I.Q. testing is notoriously unreliable. For example, on some tests, I score about a 130, and on others, as high as 210. And, while I can express myself reasonably well in writing, in person, I struggle to verbalize my ideas. Which makes me come across as a bit thick to some people - I suspect I have a cognitive disorder related to dyslexia that causes this problem.
Also, there are many different types of intelligence which one may possess. Some psychologist suggest as many as 15 different areas in which one may exhibit an 'intelligence'.
There's also the problem of cultural bias that makes it's way into I.Q. testing - e.g. someone from rural sub-Saharan Africa is hardly going to knowledgeable about European concepts and theories. And, will not test well when challenged with this. However, this person may hold extremely advanced knowledge of his/her own culture and environment, and would be considered the 'genius' of the village.
May you all be happy and achieve the highest bliss,
Nirodha |
Edited by - Nirodha on Apr 03 2007 12:03:23 PM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 11:13:42 AM
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Hi Nirodha thanks for the reply but I'm looking for answers to my latest question.
Weaver, I'm certain that I must correct my faulty personality right now but the new job offer is also tempting. Would appreciate if others also provide me an advise. The thing is, in India where I live, unlike other countries, lot of socialization and dating happens at workplaces with large workforce like my current company. I'm worried about missing it by being bonded to money and skills. |
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Eddy
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 1:03:38 PM
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| IQ SHMI Q that's whati always say |
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Chrisk
USA
87 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2011 : 8:06:57 PM
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| the topic on IQ is very specialized and cannot be judged easily. i would like to add also the fact that in life together with our efforts, external forces play significance as well. thus, life is a combination of many factors not just your IQ level. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2011 : 9:32:06 PM
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IQ tests are but one way to measure intelligence. I question the validity of the IQ test (ESPECIALLY an online test) as a metric for intelligence.
That being said, being very intelligent has it's drawbacks, notably on the spiritual path. A powerful mind is not so easily overcome. Extremely intelligent people often have much more difficulty in life, precisely because they are more aware of the complexity of life.
Intelligence has nothing to do with success vs. failure.
And in response to Maximus, who said,
quote:
Spiritual progress can and should coexist with wordly success otherwise it will be not practisable for many people.
You couldn't be more wrong bro. The spiritual path unleashes stored up karma. Those that advance on the path will face many difficulties and obstacles that "normal" people do not. |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2011 : 10:30:51 PM
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Hey Maximus,
How did things turn out with that job offer back in 2007?
I was very intelligent by the standards of academics. But I am underpaid, I have no prestige, no woman, no family, no expertise, no passion. It appears in practice, I am actually quite stupid unless I am doing the high specialized task of reading textbooks and passing examinations. Which I care nothing for.
The quotes from the lesson are right on the mark.
"Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration."
"Intelligence does what it can. Genius does what it must."
The person who finds their passion that lights their fire, and practices it every day, and does whatever is necessary at various points along the way, no matter the cost - they will quickly surpass so called 'geniuses' by their devotion alone.
Go to a gym, who are the ten strongest people there? Well 1 of them was naturally very strong, the other 9 are the people who have been working out for the most years, and who enjoy doing it every day.
I go to a bowling league once per week. The greatest bowlers may have horrendous form, but they have practiced every week for many years.
I spent 4 years earning a college degree in Economics, only to find that when I left college the only practice I had gained from all that knowledge was to simply save more money than I spent every month. I could have begun 4 years sooner.
I'm blathering on and on... but my point is, go watch "Forrest Gump." It doesn't take a genius level of intelligence to know what to to be doing, and to do whatever it takes to get it done. It just takes some common sense and a big heart. |
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JDH
USA
331 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2011 : 10:36:14 PM
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I have to blather some more.
I remembered my brother's friend in high school - the state cross country (long distance running) champion. A normal guy, definitely did not look like a champion athlete before high school.
But every single day, rain or shine, cross country season or offseason, he would go out and run for 30-60 minutes. Within a couple years, he was the state champion in the 5k. Now it's true, 1% of that was some natural talent, but 99% of it was just that he ran every day all year long, while 99% of the other runners only practiced during the 4 month long cross country season. He was a 'genius' at running.
So in reply to Maximus' original question. If you applied your intelligence to the arena of socializing, and worked on it every day rain or shine - would you become a 'genius' after a couple years? Would it even matter where you worked? |
Edited by - JDH on Jan 03 2011 10:38:38 PM |
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