|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 24 2007 : 3:06:51 PM
|
Dear all,
I would like to hear your (hypothetical, if legally necessary) experiences regarding cannabis and practice.
It has been my experience, especially with increased sensitivty within the nervous system since meditating, that cannabis leads to an anxious, depressed, 'not right' feeling for days afterwards.
I have been attempting to give up use of this, and succesfully abstained the other night, alongside abstaining from alcohol.
It has been a week since I have imbibed, and I still do not feel the quality of lightness/goodness I felt after a few weeks of practice prior of partaking of the herb.
Just HOW damaging is this herb?
Jack |
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2007 : 5:17:24 PM
|
I used to smoke that years ago, and always noticed a cumulative effect. I don't think it has much lasting effect if you do it rarely, like 2 or 3 times a year. But most people do it quite regularly. There is a physical effect of tar accumulating in your lungs, a lot more than tobacco.
But then also I noticed a cumulative lethargy. People don't know how to relieve stress with meditation, so they think cannabis is wonderful because it relieves stress. But it makes you not just relaxed, but sleepy, not caring, with a lack of ambition and drive. This is why it is bad for kids, because what do they have if not ambition? Also it amplifies what is already there as far as fear, anxiety, "not right"ness.
Having said that, I liked it, and think it is possible to use it for religious purposes, rarely, under the proper preparation, and circumstances. It does tend to remind you to "chill out", and appreciate the beauty and peace in the world. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 24 2007 5:19:17 PM |
 |
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2007 : 04:29:07 AM
|
THC - the active agent in cannabis is very slowly soluble in fat. Excellent for the brain that is mostly made of fat! It may take up to 30 days to clean out one dose. So, if you are a constant user, vey high levels of THC may be gathered in the brain!
The effect hits on motorical cells - you get slow in your movements! The cognitive aspects affected are particularly attention and memory. It is the front lobe that is most sensitive to exposure of cannabis, that is, the area in control of planning, problem solving and temporal coordination.
Short term users often get disruptions in concentration, attention and storage of and understanding of new information.
Long term users definitely suffer from inability to handle complicated information, lack of verbal skill, logical-analytical skill, flexible thinking and memory deficits (both short-term and long-term memory).
Since cannbis is stored in fat for such a long time, it may give rise to "re-trips", you get a hallucinatory effect weeks or months after the last intake. This may be a very scary experience!
On top of this there is a relationship between cannabis use and anxiety and depression. Regular users run four times greater risk to develop severe depression during life. Even acute psychosis may be caused by cannabis.
So... it sure affects the brain! The problem is that most of these results are generalizations on group level. Single individuals may not experience much of this (or at least not have the perception of being affected until tested in a lab! ). Often the people around you notice the effects and that's why using the drug also have social effects, of course. |
|
|
|
Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2007 : 12:12:46 PM
|
I think its a great substance, and not as damaging as we might think. It is known for robbing people of energy and their ability to focus, so if you are using it to achieve the opposite effect, it might reflect badly on the THC. If you had a terrible headache and used it, it might reflect better.
Your body usually tells you the truth, so it might not want the substance anymore. It feels better independent of the drug.
People can use all sorts of things in this world to induce or cultivate a certain experience.
From what I've observed the substance can be used in a number of ways, as they are many different types of people who are in their own unique circumstances.
As with anything that can alter a person's mind and body so quickly, one should be cautious in the choices. Anything that the ego can view as a get fixed, get whole, get better button, the chemistry that warps the two into a relationship has already begun.
It is as much like playing with fire as any with any other substance. It will burn the wrong hands. |
Edited by - Kyman on Feb 25 2007 12:15:58 PM |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2007 : 12:47:34 PM
|
| Yes it is psychologically addictive. That affects addictive personality types more, but aren't most of us in that group? Look at the drive through lines at Starbucks before work! |
|
|
|
fmsnyder
Switzerland
1 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2007 : 8:53:01 PM
|
Hi Jack,
Yes Cannabis is addictive and destructive not only to the body but to your spiritual anatomy. Marijuana clouds the brain and inhibits the flow of light in the brain cells themselves and it can take years to restore the purity of your mind. Plus it attracts destructive and vicious astral entities who feed off the light in your aura and chakras when you partake of such substances. You are much better off finding true bliss in the Light of God and not the artificial bliss of prematurely releasing the light energies in your aura and chakras that are meant for your evolution in this life. Find the inner joy of Divine Bliss and you will never regret abandoning the poor substitute of Marijuanas' pseudo-bliss. I wish you joy on your path and the strength to overcome all that stands between you and your freedom in this life |
|
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2007 : 07:13:20 AM
|
| Welcome to AYP, fmsnyder. I agree that marijuana clouds the brain. I've never liked it, and those I know who use entheogens on a semi-regular basis have never lauded it as a great connector to the Divine within. As with any physically or psychologically addictive substance, you (Jack) will undoubtedly lose the desire naturally and effortlessly as you continue with your daily practices. That seems to be the norm here, as many forumites report that their bhakti becomes stronger than the desire to imbibe. My advice to anyone who is struggling with whether or not to quit a substance (coffee, sugar, alcohol, drugs) is relax, do your practices, and let the decision make itself. |
|
|
|
Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2007 : 08:39:08 AM
|
Thanks for the information people.
This was only a few rare occasions.. no more, no more!
|
|
|
|
paw
52 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2007 : 4:34:06 PM
|
So then, what's the deal with cannabis being sacred to Shiva, and a means to connect with the presence of Shiva, well-known among Shaivite sadhus?
How could cannabis possibly have this spiritual effect for so many people, when it is "clouding their brains" and "stopping their light"? |
|
|
|
Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Feb 28 2007 : 7:22:52 PM
|
I think it augments the system you currently have. Marijuana obliterates concentration for most people, but a person who practices yoga, even if for a few months, has a refined ability to focus.
Without concentrate you merely disassociate, adrift in whatever state your mind is the last time you left it. To stretch the expression...
I strongly believe that persistent use disprupts the natural flow of energy which is known to brim over in abundance.
At our peaks drugs or addictions will feel painful. Our peak clarity seperates like water from oil. But who's to say how people will function on the low side, when we have our downtime from strong levels of energy.
Though I think it is harmless for certain users, my not included, but for most it is like playing with fire. |
|
|
|
paw
52 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2007 : 7:43:48 PM
|
I'm really curious about this topic now. Most of the info given in this thread is "anti-cannabis usage" for yogis. Some of the claims made are extreme in the sense that the conclusion must be that those who use cannabis can never accomplish the goal of yoga, unless they first detoxify from cannabis.
This makes me think that all those many Shaivite sadhus who are yogis and renunciates are doomed to fail in their efforts to find moksha, because of the error of their thinking that cannabis is the gift of Shiva to the human family and specifically to the spiritual sadhak. It also makes me think that all the many sick people who use cannabis regularly as a medicine for real-world ailments are likewise doomed, and such folks must give up the hope of yoga in their lives, at least for this incarnation. Is my understanding correct in this?
As Yogani says in the manual, such folks will just be throwing more and more dirt on the "windshields" of their nervous systems, and will not be able to evolve and realize their divine nature and reach liberation.
This is ironic to me, because I was first introduced to cannabis over 40 years ago as a traditional spiritual substance of Vedic culture, and as a specific "mirror polisher" to cleanse the mind for meditation and to be able to see the clear light of reality. And in fact, I first received the experience of my self as Shiva while under the influence of cannabis and LSD. Nepalese temple ball was my ally in my first years of yoga.
Sometimes I meet people who use cannabis, and I recommend ayp to them. But if they cannot benefit from ayp due to cannabis use, then I will refrain from recommending it to them in future. |
Edited by - paw on Mar 02 2007 8:54:51 PM |
|
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2007 : 9:01:37 PM
|
| Paw - Your experience with marijuana is clearly different from everyone else's who has posted here, and as always on AYP, the diversity and opposing opinions are welcome and encouraged. I see no reason why you should refrain from recommending AYP to any of your friends, unless they do not wish to be exposed to a point of view that differs from their own. |
|
|
|
Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2007 : 11:10:58 PM
|
Advanced Yoga Practices.
They are just practices, why not advise them as a resource. People can pick and choose the way, beliefs, and thoughts that best take them into god. A list of these practices, I feel, should be shared with anyone that desires to unlearn their illusions about life.
My opinion is that you would not be correct in assuming that people who smoke marijuana are barred from doing yoga. Smoking reefer or not smoking reefer are both instances in our lifelong practice of yoga. A musician opens his throat chakra, among others, by mastering his breath. He does yoga without realizing it. If smoking marijuana induces a state in you that makes you more receptive to the truths you hide from yourself, then that may be appropriate spiritual use. A use which results in the death of fear and a renewel at the soul level.
If you intend under the basis of attachment, all you will grasp is a drug. If you intend without any expectations, all you will grasp is heaven. |
Edited by - Kyman on Mar 03 2007 06:12:14 AM |
|
|
|
paw
52 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2007 : 12:30:34 AM
|
thanks meg, I love tolerance and free sharing of ideas and knowledge, so I appreciate your comments. I especially like this quote from your first post on this thread, good advice:
"My advice to anyone who is struggling with whether or not to quit a substance (coffee, sugar, alcohol, drugs) is relax, do your practices, and let the decision make itself." |
|
|
|
paw
52 Posts |
Posted - Mar 03 2007 : 6:21:33 PM
|
Hi Kyman, yes I like this:
"If you intend under the basis of attachment, all you will grasp is a drug. If you intend without any expectations, all you will grasp is heaven."
"They are just practices, why not advise them as a resource. People can pick and choose the way, beliefs, and thoughts that best take them into god. A list of these practices, I feel, should be shared with anyone that desires to unlearn their illusions about life."
Yes, thanks, I have always thought this too. Yoga is so intimate, and in a way, "personal" and unique. The grace of the Supreme can overcome anything, imo.
|
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2007 : 09:07:40 AM
|
I've had religious experiences under the influence of drugs several times (a LONG time ago). I wouldn't say any kind of behavior should stop people from AYP practices.
I think a lot of it has to do with your intent when you use drugs. Also how much you use them, because that could indicate attachment to the drug as a intercessor, the same as if you think a church, guru, or golden idol is necessary for you to reach god.
Any kind of obsessive behavior other than twice daily practices can lead you astray because it's superstitious. It's not the behavior that's particularly bad, it is the belief system that you are building, telling you that this THING outside yourself is something special. |
|
|
|
Dedroidify
22 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 12:46:20 PM
|
I'd like to share my thoughts on this topic as I'm currently on my eight day of abstaining, with the intent of keeping it that way permanently, from cannabis. I agree that spiritual practice and cannabis do not mix very well. One model I love to use is Tim Leary's 8 Circuit model, in this model cannabis activates the fifth circuit (Sensory, Hedonic, Neurosomatic), which is the same circuit that basic meditation and basic yoga postures activates. Considering this, when I do practice yoga postures (and I haven't for a while as I'm transitioning to Yogani's system and have had some ailments preventing me from continuing my Hatha and Kundalini Yoga practices), and I'd smoke cannabis, I would feel little to no effect cause the circuit was already activated. Hence making it useless. I started smoking again when unable to do yoga and simply cause the opportunity with friends arose and put off quitting for a while. But then I recently learned about what it does to one's energy and aura and became motivated to quit again and since I feel so healthy now and the "I Am" meditation is making me feel so great anyway, I no longer feel the need for cannabis either way.
That being said, there is merit to it too, but not generally, cannabis is the greatest painkiller I know (was much better by far than the lousy heavy dose painkillers I got for my broken thumb which needed surgery). Another merit it has is it opens the way to more multidimensional thinking, compared to nicotine which just works on logical reasoning and keeps one stuck in a belief system.
It's also a great supplement with hallucinogens like psylocybin mushrooms for navigating in trips for the psychonauts. Terence Mckenna advised if you do want to use it, once a week would be much better than daily for starters. I'd go beyond that, it takes over one month to a few months to clear it out of your system, and I've done this before and it feels great and this feeling keeps motivating you. When busy with a persistent spiritual practice (I tried so many sorts so wasn't very persistent before untill I got told about AYP) the merit of smoking every few months is kind of obsolete to me now. So hooray!
quote:
Originally posted by emc
Short term users often get disruptions in concentration, attention and storage of and understanding of new information.
Long term users definitely suffer from inability to handle complicated information, lack of verbal skill, logical-analytical skill, flexible thinking and memory deficits (both short-term and long-term memory).
Since cannbis is stored in fat for such a long time, it may give rise to "re-trips", you get a hallucinatory effect weeks or months after the last intake. This may be a very scary experience!
I agree with the short term comments as for me it was impossible to say read a book on cannabis.
However about the long term effects you state, while I'd admit those effects are certainly possible and I've witnessed them to harsh extents, they are certainly not for all long term users. I know many of them who do not exhibit any of the traits mentioned, including myself. I think these effects are more likely to come up if the user has been smoking from an early age like say 13 and even in those cases there are people I know personally who are quite immune to these effects aswell. So don't be too scared of it.
But to summarize I agree with the consensus here, spiritual practitioners have no need for it. (at the least when they've gotten to a certain point on the path) |
|
|
|
Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Mar 06 2007 : 9:37:58 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by paw
Sometimes I meet people who use cannabis, and I recommend ayp to them. But if they cannot benefit from ayp due to cannabis use, then I will refrain from recommending it to them in future.
Wow hold up there!!!!!!!!!!
Caribbean Weed...........wow it is wonderful...........gosh it is great........
I believe what you said about Shiva realisation and all because it happened to me
Weed experience #1004:
The boys and I went to the beach and rolled out joints....I of course enjoying the warmth of the sun rays decided to roll a joint .....an enormous one also
I remember as if it was yesterday......the smell the Jamaican shawl laid on the shore..........the pounds of weed nearby.......
heaven seemed not far away..........
As we started our spliff .........honey aroma filled the air
our very first ...and exchanged the joint several times ......very soon after all the guys were at peace......and laid back on the shore
they were basking in bliss
and I was still wide awake unaffected........for a while then I felt peaceful within...........soon after
I felt the energies in my head.......sort of wavelike......so cool
it was one of my first few spiritual experiences.....lord shiva.........he was waking up.....
Waw that was the best joint I ever had......and I am still excited over it..........
Anyways from experience........weed smokers are conscious people depending on their diet their physical body and many other factors
.....it is not for everyone.....
Yes I observed the elders smoking weed at certain religious ceromonies..........it is true what the say about Shiva
But weed is not for the younger folks........
but whenever you guys looking for a really good joint to smoke
check me
but please spirituality and weed is good to a certain extent for some people but not all
and God would indeed appreciate his children reaching closer to him any time they are ready !!!!!!!!!
So bring em along to AYP!
|
|
|
|
AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 10:39:30 AM
|
| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
|
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 11:04:50 AM
|
I got high just reading Neesha's post. A good point emerged from the smoke...this:
"Anyways from experience........weed smokers are conscious people depending on their diet their physical body and many other factors
.....it is not for everyone....."
It sums it up well, I think. One's experiences depend on one's intentions. And that applies to just about everything. |
|
|
|
david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Mar 07 2007 : 11:53:52 AM
|
There's no doubt that the likelihood of pot use being problemmatic is dependent on culture in a number of ways. It depends a lot on exactly what lifestyle a person is leading and what their goals and duties are. If a person is in a life situation where they have to keep motivated and on-the-ball, which is the case for most Westerners with careers, and even more so for those with families too, consistent use is more risky to their way of life, but some bring consistent use off without problems. Occasional use doesn't seem to hold much risk in itself -- except through the use becoming more than occasional.
|
|
|
|
RevolMaster
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2007 : 11:01:02 AM
|
| For every user the fruits of the action are different. There are no absolutes. Pot changes your perception of your surroundings, which means you are not seeing things with the natural vision and clarity you were born with. As for pot causing all kinds of negative habits like some of you have said, perhaps it is true for some, but surely not for all who use it. I have been slowly giving it up naturally, letting it float away like cloud as practice and purity come in, day by day. I myself have always been motivated and never held down by pot use, i am an avid martial artist and a very active person period. Pot has never had an adverse effect on my attitude, habits, relations, and in fact has opened my mind and my heart, to new ideas while killing any impatience and fits of anger that might have arisen otherwise. Although i do not smoke before or after i meditate, when there is time on a beautiful sunny day, it is nice to go outdoors and enjoy a good smoke, it is all in how you use it. It comes down to this, EVERY substance you take into your body IS POISON, what makes it POISONOUS is the amount it is taken in. Even the seemingly benign water can kill you if taken in large enough quantities. On another note, i have to say, a very active person who eats well and doesnt have much fat in their body can easily flush out even long term amounts of THC in only a few days, trust me, ive been given plenty of very accurate drug tests and have always been able to clear myself with just water and excersise in a matter of days. I embrace all things, even the illusion of Maya, it is all God, a beautiful gift, this moment is all you truly have, everything, the good, the bad, the middle, it should all be welcomed with open arms, all mistakes are not for bad feelings, they are for learning, gifts to further your understanding, remeber who you truly are, just as in meditation, thoughts arise, mistakes arise in physical life, easily favor your practice as yogani says, eventually all things settle to stillness, amen. |
|
|
|
anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 08:53:06 AM
|
I used to smoke a lot a year ago and it did put me somewhat on The Path, however, once I did mushrooms and LSD marijuana completely changed for me and I had to give it up because it was giving me symtoms of depersonalization and ego-death and I couldn't handle it.
I re-experimented with weed in lower controlled doses a couple months later and on doing it every couple weeks in what most smokers would not even deem a significant amount, I have found it to have a lot of good potential.
It does give me feelings of paranoia...but these symptoms subside and are perhaps indicative that I am not entirely comfortable in my surroundings anyway. I guess my main point is that for me Marijuana allows me to observe my brain and thought patterns for better or worse. It allows me to really reconnect with myself for a couple hours and I can reawaken blocked memories, and i often have very significant realizations and epiphanies about myself, the nature of the world, and my actions in my life. Sometimes its good to give me the kick in the a** I might need if I find myself wondering from awareness.
Andrew Weil said "There are no bad drugs, just bad drug users"
That is my philosophy. Some people smoke weed because they hate thier job, or think reality is boring. Some people smoke and munch on chips and watch TV. When I partake, I will not even allow myself (or want to be) to be indoors, I only smoke when I can walk around in the sunshine. I think it can be a useful tool and kind of for me simulates the effects of LSD in a more mild way, not to mention less than 12-hours!
I have had a lot of complicated feelings about MJ lately because I have stopped since doing AYP for about a month and I plan on keeping it that way but I realy feel the urge to experiment again, perhaps in conjunction with meditation or pranayama.
I often ponder the nature of such drugs, especially hallucinogenics - which is what pot is. Why would a plant or mushrooms that grows out of the ground allow one such spiritual experience despite arguments of its validity? I think they are here to help us if we choose to employ them or need them for medical reasons or whatever else. To deem it innately bad i think is naiive and does not take into account the essential and mind-boggling fact that these plants have ALWAYS been here, have had a relationship with human beings nearly since the beginning of time, and obviously God put a lot of thought into fashioning them. |
Edited by - anthony574 on May 02 2007 09:04:56 AM |
|
|
|
Blue Opal
33 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 11:43:06 AM
|
Sharks have always been here, well at least for a long time, but I wouldn't like to be eaten by one.
Fire has been here since the beginning of time, but I would not like to get burnt.
God put a lot into fashioning Bin Laden's mind, but I would not like to date him.
If I could choose between a normal life, and a life of occasional highs interspersed with psychotic episodes, I know which one I'd choose.
Nothing is innately bad. Some people are just idiots. |
|
|
|
Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 3:49:10 PM
|
Anthony
Ive been there
Done it
Got the T shirt
Stick with Yoga unlike drugs the effects last 
quote:
If I could choose between a normal life, and a life of occasional highs interspersed with psychotic episodes, I know which one I'd choose.
Nothing is innately bad. Some people are just idiots.
Blue Opel you have it in a nutshell  |
Edited by - Richard on May 02 2007 3:58:04 PM |
|
|
|
Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 4:25:33 PM
|
The idea just occured to me that perhaps the psychotropic plants were made available here for our more animal-like ancestors to get a taste of uplifting vibrations and glimpses beyond the animal existence, maybe sort of pre-yoga stuff. They may have lived primarily in lower chakra vibrations. Actually animals in nature partake of such things as well and truly show enjoyment of the highs. When I realized enjoyment from such drugs it was in my youth when I was certainly occupied in the vibrations of the denser energies. More recent middle-aged ventures with such substances don't have the same appeal.
Just some thoughts
Alan |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Cannabis
