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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 01 2007 : 06:53:21 AM
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Hi all and namaste
About 10 years ago I came in touch with a very very deep hatred. Prior to this I do not remember ever experiencing hatred, simply did not know what is was to hate.
It took me years to come to terms with the direct effects of this in my system, but always it could be accessed with a simple thought. It was like no mater how much work I did on it, the black hole of hatred seemed to go on forever to an infinite dept.
I gave up actually trying to deal with it because of its apparent dept – no point, I thought, I will just end up destroying myself if I keep delving into it.
When I describe this to people they generally start talking about anger, as if anger and hatred are the same thing. So just to make it clear, they very different. Personally I find anger relatively straightforward to deal with compared to hatred.
So where is this leading? Well over the last year the hatred has been rearing its ugly head, spurred on by some conversations and some chance meetings. Then over the Christmas I went to see a healer friend. She did some very deep regression work with me and discussed it a length. Things seems no different at the end of the session but the following day I realised the hatred was gone.
However the black hole in me was still there, instantly accessible with a thought.
I have been wrestling with this over the past few weeks, a bit wary of it. We are so conditioned that the “light” is where it’s at, that to entertain darkness as anything but negative may seem absurd.
I have experimented going into this darkness, allowing it to completely envelop me. When I do this I can see the light inside the same way I could see the darkness inside under “normal” conditions. It all became very fluid, one flowing into another and back – the yin/yang – tai chi symbol came to mind.
Now it seems almost normal to me that I should have this mix of dark and light and that the darkness is not damaging in any way, I do still feel some apprehension however, mainly because it seems difficult not to encounter an intake of breath from people when I tell them about it.
We are so conditioned to think that we are going towards the light, and that we are getting rid of the darkness in us through spiritual practice that it is hard to shake this apprehension off.
For now I am calling it the Dark Feminine and some links about this are:
http://www.awakenedwoman.com/dark_mother.htm
A small excerpt:
“The darkness holds all possibilities. It is not something to be feared, but rather a mystery to be lived. Understanding the meaning of being held and shaped by the invisible Dark Mother can give us insight into the true nature of our being, and can help us remember what we have lost when we have strayed too far from her embrace.”
http://www.greenspirit.org.uk/resou...rkMother.htm
Quote: Unfortunately, the concept of the Dark Mother, in Her true form, is not very available to the common person3, because millennia of patriarchy have demonized or distorted Her image. The ‘God’ of patriarchy is predominately one of ‘light’, and clearly echoes our own struggles (being a ‘light/sight’ biased species) to ‘en-light-en’ our world (know-ledge) and in so doing, gain control over our environment. In order to ‘light’ to win over the all-embracing and pervading Darkness (the essential ‘mystery’ quality of the world), the concept of the Dark Mother had to be dis-empowered.
Having read some of these links, I am somewhat relieved about the situation but still feel the need to get confirmation from people here of their experiences.
Thanks
Louis
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Edited by - Sparkle on Feb 01 2007 4:45:45 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2007 : 09:27:31 AM
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Very interesting, Louis.
I think hate is more closely tied to fear than anger, although they all come from the same cauldron.
I wonder if this darkness is "the void", unmanifest creation?
I wonder if it has anything in common with intense fear i have experienced associated with sorcery? Some people desire special powers; let me tell you, fear gives you all kinds of negative power. Intense fear can create the object of your fear; I've been there. People who say demons and the like don't exist haven't been there.
This darkness and fear has a purpose, but it's something you want to keep to a minimum, at least with the fear part active.
A note: They say animals don't experience as much pain as we do, but they have much more fear. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2007 : 10:21:59 AM
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Hi Louis,
What kind of treatment did you get to remove your hatered? |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2007 : 11:27:09 AM
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| Thank you Louis for sharing this very interesting experience. it seems you have really found some core stuff and gone into it deeply. Much food for thought, thanks! |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2007 : 11:31:47 AM
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Thanks Ether and Lili
Ether said: quote:
I think hate is more closely tied to fear than anger, although they all come from the same cauldron.
I would go with the "there is only love and fear" thing. If it isn't love then it some manifestation of fear, as you say - from the same cauldron.
My understanding on an energy level is that anger is generated from the base chakra and hatred from the heart chakra.
Also, it is my understanding than the most common minifestation of hatred in society is Envy. Envy is the destroyer of society and it is so common and so taken for granted and even accepted as normal by many. (I meant to comment on this in your hatred thread but didn't get round to it, sorry).
You said also: quote:
I wonder if this darkness is "the void", unmanifest creation?
My experience of it is more like as a compliment to the light. If you take the Chinese Tai Chi (yin/yang) symbol as representing the light and dark, then the Wu Chi symbol which the Chinese regard as coming before the Tai Chi symbol would represent the Void. The Wu Chi cymbol is an empty circle. This would be my feel for it at the moment. Perhaps the void or emptiness is neither light nor dark or both light and dark.
Sorcery - never been involed with this, so don't know much about it, but interesting what you say.
Lili quote:
What kind of treatment did you get to remove your hatered?
Well although I went to a healer friend who incorporates hands on healing and regression work - this life or past life, wherever you happen to go, I would regard the main healing to have occured before this in my daily practice, which has been AYP for the past year.
It is curious to me that the conversation I had with the healer afterwards revealed that she had never experienced hatred, that she is aware of. Her view would also be that ultimately there is only fear and love and that everything can be treated or therapised with love. She is also very much of the "lightworker" variety and was a bit taken aback by the conversation about darkness.
Actually the most imortant thing that came across in the healing was her repeated question - "do you want to let go of the hatred". This had a big impact on me, her intuition was spot on there. I think this in combination with her very powerful healing was what tipped the balance.
Hope this helps.
Louis |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2007 : 11:44:12 AM
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quote:
Thank you Louis for sharing this very interesting experience. it seems you have really found some core stuff and gone into it deeply. Much food for thought, thanks!
Thanks alan, we posted at the same time. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
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ckdCosmo
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2007 : 8:16:20 PM
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I had a similar experience. I am not one to hold grudges, but this was beyond the everyday thing...I'm not going to go into it here, but suffice it to say that what happened was illegal and affected someone very close to me. Everytime I saw the guy I wanted to beat him, kill him, I could just feel myself getting angry and ready to just blow. I had never experienced hatred like this before.
It took me a long time to realize that revenge wouldn't help. I watched the movie "V for Vendetta" one night in which they were talking about The Count of Monte Christo. The Count forsook love for vengeance, all the while never realizing how much his thirst for vengeance had cost him. I realized I had been in the same situation, and had to let go. I couldn't let vengeance and hatred over take my love, or it would eventually destroyed me inside.
This is by no means an easy thing to do, I may still not be totally over it, but it is no longer as bad as it once was.
I firmly believe that everything really is love...just different extremes. In this case, it was an extreme lack of love...had I allowed that to take over, I do not know what would have happened to me... |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2007 : 8:23:18 PM
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Thanks Wolfgang, very interesting article.
Much of what was in it rang a bell, however I think they are talking about states a bit ahead of mine 
They said: quote:
The Darkness meditation releases us from the bonds of the Earth. No longer controlled by the rotating power of the Earth, the Sun and the Moon, the organs vibrate in unison with the spiritual stars, the Gates of Heaven.
The particular darkness I am experiencing is more in my lower body and feels very grounded and earthy.
I was doing a healing earlier tonight and it felt like my feet were down in the earth to about one foot dept. I also felt the light very strongly in the top of my body. I was surprised to find the convergence was not the heart but the navel area, perhaps the Dan Tien.
As the healing went on I would go from the above experience to inner silence. When this happened there was no light and no dark, I don't know what there was, at times I was aware of a very soft love.
Still at a loss to explain it, the friends I have spoken to havn't had this experience.
Louis |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2007 : 8:38:33 PM
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Thanks ckdCosmo
Yes its a very dark and deep place to be. It took me literally years to be able to just manage it so that it wasn't destroying me. Of course it was still there and 10 years later I have had this shift, where the hatred has gone and have been left in touch with a darkness which seems soft and safe.
The question I have to ask of course "is it actually gone, or is this just another aspect of the hatred" - I don't know, have to keep an open mind, any ideas?
Louis |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2007 : 06:11:30 AM
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Hi Sparkle,
I'm going through a similar experience....First it scared me, because, like you, it was pretty unlike anything I'd felt. And logically, I saw no reason to hold on to resentment. But it seemed to have a life of its own. Rationalising, discussions, etc didn't answer.
I can only say that in recent times, this intense resentment has been alternated with strong concern for the person, and during some sessions of meditation, I've felt a huge outflow of love and compassion...in fact one whole session consisted of dissolving into tears wrt the object of my resentment. (I use 'resentment', not 'hatred'; because I think it was that...but very very intense resentment). Before that some sessions had huge outpourings of the resentment too.
Can't say I have a solution yet. I just try and watch myself reacting and not get involved much. Yogani advised forgiving and seeking forgiveness... does that help you? I do it sporadically. Maybe should put my mind to it more. |
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Amaargi
Australia
23 Posts |
Posted - Apr 13 2007 : 10:15:05 AM
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Hi Louise,
I'm posting a bit late but have just undergone a similar experience.
I went on a soul retrieval journey, totally unexperienced at this so just went 'with the flow'. I ended up in the darkness, the dark side which wasn't very nice and filled with many things that caused me fear.
After awhile I found myself resting there and finding a great peace, this followed with a wonderful love that I received there and also gave.
I was recovering from an illness at the time and then started to feel healing coming from within this place also.
It was then I started to understand the darkness/duality definitely does exist tho I've always only believed there is oneness/Love. It's, like, here in 3D reality there *is* duality.
Up until this experience I thought we had to 'get rid of' the darkness and allow only white light or love to exist - now I know that the darkness is there and we learn to love it, just as much as we love the light.
I'm sure there's a lot more to all of this but as I'm not formally trained or have studied this very much I can only speak of my experiences and what I felt at the time.
Amaargi
quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
Thanks ckdCosmo
Yes its a very dark and deep place to be. It took me literally years to be able to just manage it so that it wasn't destroying me. Of course it was still there and 10 years later I have had this shift, where the hatred has gone and have been left in touch with a darkness which seems soft and safe.
The question I have to ask of course "is it actually gone, or is this just another aspect of the hatred" - I don't know, have to keep an open mind, any ideas?
Louis
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 03:50:00 AM
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Hi Amaargi
Thanks for sharing your experience.
Early this morning I was in the darkness too.
I don't have time right now, so I'll explain in another post elsewhere (later today - I'll come back here and leave the link)
It is here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=2
All i can say right now is that the darkness is full of light. This sounds like a paradox (and it is) - the duality of it comes only when I try to process the experience with the mind. Also - the darkness that is uncomfortable is different from the darkness that is peace. The first is veiling the light, the second is .......pregnant with it.
I am so glad you landed in the peace |
Edited by - Katrine on Apr 14 2007 12:12:37 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 09:47:23 AM
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Darkness is the completed circle. Anyone who moves into the darkness with the attitude of embracing it has come out the other side miles further along on their spiritual path. Christ descended into the deepest darkness for 3 days; he wrestled with Satan in the wilderness; Siddhartha Gautama sat under the Bodhi tree and faced his personal darkness until he awakened; Bhairava is the dark side of Shiva, who ruthlessly cuts through egoic delusions; Job was the poster boy for facing his demons head on; shamans go to and through the darkness in order to waken their latent healing energies; on & on & on.
As I see it, the darkness represents the full circle of our being, and he/she who faces/embraces their hatred, fears, and personal demons with the necessary courage paradoxically opens to the full spectrum of spiritual experience (= love).
Don't deny yourself and the world of your full potential! Open up to your dark side! Therein lies the fullness of your being. |
Edited by - Manipura on Apr 14 2007 12:35:30 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 12:42:26 PM
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Sadhak said: quote:
Hi Sparkle,
I'm going through a similar experience....First it scared me, because, like you, it was pretty unlike anything I'd felt. And logically, I saw no reason to hold on to resentment. But it seemed to have a life of its own. Rationalising, discussions, etc didn't answer.
I can only say that in recent times, this intense resentment has been alternated with strong concern for the person, and during some sessions of meditation, I've felt a huge outflow of love and compassion...in fact one whole session consisted of dissolving into tears wrt the object of my resentment. (I use 'resentment', not 'hatred'; because I think it was that...but very very intense resentment). Before that some sessions had huge outpourings of the resentment too.
Can't say I have a solution yet. I just try and watch myself reacting and not get involved much. Yogani advised forgiving and seeking forgiveness... does that help you? I do it sporadically. Maybe should put my mind to it more.
Firstly Sadhak, sorry for not getting back sooner. I wasn't really in a space where I could answer you at the time, although, as you know, I did send you an email.
Not sure if it is the same thing but I think the same processes might work to resolve it.
It is the darkness that was discovered through hatred that I find curious. It is curious that with the focussed hatred for that person and other associated people gone, that I am left in a warm loving place, but still in the darkness.
Amaargi:
Thanks for relating your experience, we seem to have touched the same kind of thing. This warm loving darkness which seems different than the darkness associated with fear.
Katrine:
It is my experience also that after resting in this darkness for a while it can be switched to light in an instant. The experience of the light then seems so much brighter and intense than usual.
Is this what you mean?
Meg:
The "Dark Side" is normally associated with our fears and facing these and transforming them with meditation or whatever means, is what allows us to grow.
This darkness that that I was resting in seemed to be, as Amaargi said, the other side of light. It could switch to light or swirl around alongside light and the yin/yang or tai chi symbol came to mind in this.
What made me nervous is that one doesn't often hear Masters, Gurus etc. talking about the dark in this way - its usually alway about becoming en-light-ened.
Katrine, in your post you seems to want to qualify the darkness by saying quote:
"All i can say right now is that the darkness is full of light."
I appreciate that it is in darkness that our fears hang out, but does this mean that all darkness is fear based.
When one considers that approximately 90% of our physic is in darkness, we are only using approx. 10% of our capacity (or so they tell us), it seems reasonable that it could be explored more fully.
It also seems reasonable to me that it doesn't all have to be bad guey stuff.
If one considers that we are told by some traditions that the "light" is masculine, is related to heaven and comes down from above through the crown or perhaps the brow.
And one considers that dark feminine comes up from earth to meet in the heart.
Then it makes sense that raising the kundalini could result in raising this darkness.
One could also consider that we are well and truely conditioned to reject darkness as bad and chase the light.
Could this be another case of the Paternal masculine dominance of spirituality favouring the masculine light and subdueing the dark feminine? And are we holding ourselves back with this approach? |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 2:28:15 PM
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Hi Louis
quote:
It is my experience also that after resting in this darkness for a while it can be switched to light in an instant. The experience of the light then seems so much brighter and intense than usual.
Is this what you mean?
Not quite....
I can't explain what I mean very well......other than saying that the darkness is pregnant with light. Therfore it is not the opposite of light. It is also light. (Even though it is darkness....)
quote:
If one considers that we are told by some traditions that the "light" is masculine, is related to heaven and comes down from above through the crown or perhaps the brow.
And one considers that dark feminine comes up from earth to meet in the heart.
Then it makes sense that raising the kundalini could result in raising this darkness.
It doesn't sound.....right....to devide it like that....From above, from below, heaven, earth....etc. These are only concepts......in space and time.
All I know is that "i am"......is both. Everything comes together in "i am". It is "i am" that is the heart.
Louis.....sorry.....that i can't be more clear. |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Apr 14 2007 : 3:16:22 PM
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An experience took place for me in 1972. I had spent many hours a day meditating for an entire summer. A few years previously I had severe post partum depression, almost psychosis, where I had bouts of terror and could not sleep for 5 days. This originally got me to seriously look into meditation. At the time I feared I was losing my mind. Meditating brought up fear at times and it was a real struggle for years.
I guess eventually I learned that "there is nothing to fear but fear itself." So during my self guided retreat, I encountered images popping into my mind, some beautiful some ugly. I was able to just let the frightening things pass away. One day while watching these images arise and pass away, I noticed they emerged from this dark "nothing" and when I turned my awareness to investigate this "nothing," a beautiful indescribable bliss flooded my mind.
For a long time I searched for an explanation or validation for this experience. Thanks to the internet, finally, there are others discussing these things. For the last four years I have found many other spiritual friends on various forums. Thanks everyone for bringing up this topic, it is of real interest to me.
Jill |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 6:07:20 PM
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Hi Katrine
quote:
Not quite....
I can't explain what I mean very well......other than saying that the darkness is pregnant with light. Therfore it is not the opposite of light. It is also light. (Even though it is darkness....)
Further up the thread I said the following, which seems to fit closer to what you are saying.
quote:
My experience of it is more like as a compliment to the light. If you take the Chinese Tai Chi (yin/yang) symbol as representing the light and dark, then the Wu Chi symbol which the Chinese regard as coming before the Tai Chi symbol would represent the Void. The Wu Chi cymbol is an empty circle. This would be my feel for it at the moment. Perhaps the void or emptiness is neither light nor dark or both light and dark.
The intense experience of this has left me for now, like it has become integrated and is fading into the background.
I do know the result of the experience feels like I am more connected to earth.
When I was in the darkness one day a bolt of light flashed through me and anchored itself in the centre of the earth. This sounds a bit weird I know, but that's the experience. Since then the intensity and need to keep going into it receded.
Jill said: quote:
I guess eventually I learned that "there is nothing to fear but fear itself." So during my self guided retreat, I encountered images popping into my mind, some beautiful some ugly. I was able to just let the frightening things pass away. One day while watching these images arise and pass away, I noticed they emerged from this dark "nothing" and when I turned my awareness to investigate this "nothing," a beautiful indescribable bliss flooded my mind.
For a long time I searched for an explanation or validation for this experience. Thanks to the internet, finally, there are others discussing these things. For the last four years I have found many other spiritual friends on various forums. Thanks everyone for bringing up this topic, it is of real interest to me.
Thanks very much for sharing your experience Jill. I agree it seems difficult to get confirmation of anything wholesome and loving in the darkness.
Have you had much confirmation from other sources?
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Apr 15 2007 : 7:00:24 PM
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quote:
I agree it seems difficult to get confirmation of anything wholesome and loving in the darkness. Have you had much confirmation from other sources?
Could you rephrase the question? External or internal confirmation?
Jill |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 03:22:04 AM
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quote:
Could you rephrase the question? External or internal confirmation?
Interesting question Jill, I was thinking of external confirmations from other people.
When you say internal confirmation are you talking about something other than personal experience?
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 07:42:13 AM
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| I wouldn't say "wholesome", but in the darkness I have felt that God is with me, and that I don't need or want anything else. I think that is probably the essence of love. |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2007 : 3:32:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
When you say internal confirmation are you talking about something other than personal experience?
Hi Sparkle,
I am sorry to be a smart a**. It is just my weakness. I really was just asking you to clarify your question.
External sources have confirmed that others have experienced the sacred dark, like in some translations of the Tao Te Ching. I think also some Zen, but can't pinpoint the source right now.
It has been some source of confusion for me with the emphasis on light, to find the most beautiful love coming out of the pitch blackness. I am still looking for sources that might help with clarification. One idea I have pondered is when we experience deep spiritual states our minds being the vessels that must hold the memory of them, creates metaphores that can describe to others and ourselves some of the profound meaning. Since the truth cannot be put into words or even ideas, our minds have no choice but to speak in the language they understand. What do you think?
Happiness,
Jill |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2007 : 2:23:38 PM
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quote:
I am sorry to be a smart a**.
How dare you, may you be cast into the darkness 
The tao that can be told
is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named
is not the eternal Name.
The unnamable is the eternally real.
Naming is the origin
of all particular things.
Free from desire, you realize the mystery.
Caught in desire, you see only the manifestations.
Yet mystery and manifestations
arise from the same source.
This source is called darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding
from:http://www.mindfully.org/Tao-Te-Ching-Lao-tzu.htm
loving darkness
Louis
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Apr 17 2007 : 2:29:41 PM
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quote:
This source is called darkness.
Darkness within darkness.
The gateway to all understanding
from:http://www.mindfully.org/Tao-Te-Ching-Lao-tzu.htm
loving darkness
Louis
That's it!
From the outer darkness and loving the tranquility.
Jill |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 04:33:35 AM
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quote:
One idea I have pondered is when we experience deep spiritual states our minds being the vessels that must hold the memory of them, creates metaphores that can describe to others and ourselves some of the profound meaning. Since the truth cannot be put into words or even ideas, our minds have no choice but to speak in the language they understand. What do you think?
I think I get what your saying Jill.
I remember my first Zen Buddhist retreat. The first couple of days I couldn't get into the "looking at the wall forever" bit, it just wasn't doing it for me. So I decided to do what I was used to, and that was call in or invoke the Holy Spirit - which I see as a soft loving light.
As soon as I did this at the beginning of each meditation I was able to connect with the practice.
Now when I went home after the retreat and sat down to meditate I immediately zoomed into a black void space, which was the deepest place I had ever been. It would have been ok and I would have stayed with it except that, because of my conditioning, I became very afraid because it was black with absolutely no light.
After two or three times going into this I started invoking the light into this darkness. It actually took great concentration to make this happen but eventually it did and it all became light.
Unfortunatley the depth went out of the experience and I was back to "normal" 
So while I get what your saying it does not seem to tie in with that particular experience. Then again maybe you can make a connection.
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Apr 19 2007 : 5:12:58 PM
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quote:
So while I get what your saying it does not seem to tie in with that particular experience. Then again maybe you can make a connection.
Thank you for sharing. I have patiently waited for the clarification for over 30 years. No hurry I guess by now 
I don't know why it didn't scare me. Perhaps because it did not encompass my full awareness, there was always the thought stream continually arising and passing. I do remember wondering to myself if I would be afraid it I were to be left alone in the darkness with nothing there. But at the time I just was pretty much waiting for the thought stream to "end" but didn't know if it was just a perpetual motion machine. Just turning my mind to observe it brought the divine bliss out. That was definitely not scary.
I just appreciate having found someone who has had even a little glimpse of it. Thanks again for your sharing with me.
Jill
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Edited by - jillatay on Apr 19 2007 5:15:07 PM |
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The Dark Feminine and Fear of Darkness
