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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 12:03:26 AM
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You know I have to say that reading about "This", "That" and/ or "What Is" can drive me nutty at times, but sometimes it's the only way to express what is so difficult to express. So I will do it anyway in order to share some recent insights...
It's interesting I have read it many times but only come to know it first hand just recently. We are what is, we are the truth. All the thoughts that flow across our consciousness of being (our stillness), are our mind's interpretations of our realities. Our thoughts are like guesses about our experiences and our reactions to them. None of it can be what really is, what we really are can't be contained in a thought. Our thoughts are like clouds floating across the sky of our being.
Having found some moments of intense stillness in my life which lasted just a minute, a couple of hours, a few days and sometimes a few weeks, I would get worried about "losing it". What I have noticed recently is that I can't lose "It", I only think I can which is enough to distract me from "It" for a little while. I used to get worried all the time about thoughts that would come up and take me away from it, but then I realized that they come out of stillness, stillness doesn't come out of having my thoughts all lined up in the perfect way to create an equilibrium in my life. I don't have to solve every emotion inducing thought that goes by, I can just watch it do it's thing and realize that I am always "being", that I am the stillness which it all comes out of.
Recently I have been spending more time "being", just resting in it. I get a feeling in my stomach, like falling, the ecstasy intensifies inside. For some reason it is easier to be aware of it and easier to not get distracted from it by my thoughts. It is quietly becoming a bigger part of my life, the "sameness" between inside and outside.
When we ask ourselves is it true, we are asking ourselves if what we perceive is what is. We are what is. Truly a great question that will help us to fully realize our true nature.  |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 01:23:34 AM
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Wonderful words Andrew. I'm with you. Lately things expressed by my fellows like yourself speak of my experiences. Thanks for thoughtfully writing them out.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 02:47:26 AM
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It sounds truly great. Hey, you start sounding like Katrine. 
But is it really true that we are that stillness always? My (silly little cloud-)thought is: we are purifying for some reason. Is that in order to be able to PERCEIVE truth and the inner stillnes more and more clear - we sort of have it all in us, we just don't see it. Or is it to prepare the body to be able to have more stillness in us, so in the beginning we actually ARE not that to the same degree... ? Some say we purify in order to be able to RECIEVE or HOLD greater amounts of energy as well as higher frequency of it. Do you understand my thought? Am I really that great stillness already it's just my perception system of mind and body that has to purify to be able to make me realize it?
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 07:55:38 AM
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Gread post Andrew
I have started doing this more and more also, trying to simply be in beingness all the time. It's great when it works isn't it. And it is working more of the time for me as well.
Hi EMC
quote:
But is it really true that we are that stillness always? My (silly little cloud-)thought is: we are purifying for some reason. Is that in order to be able to PERCEIVE truth and the inner stillnes more and more clear - we sort of have it all in us, we just don't see it. Or is it to prepare the body to be able to have more stillness in us, so in the beginning we actually ARE not that to the same degree... ? Some say we purify in order to be able to RECIEVE or HOLD greater amounts of energy as well as higher frequency of it. Do you understand my thought? Am I really that great stillness already it's just my perception system of mind and body that has to purify to be able to make me realize it?
I have wondered this as well. After all, some things happen in our practices, as a direct result of those practices, like when our heart chakra opens. It isn't the case that everyone is walking around with a wide open spinning heart chakra which they simply haven't noticed yet. Or that everyone is in a constantly orgasmic state of ecstacy all the time, but until now it has somehow eluded them. So it could be the case that we are not eternal bliss consciousness from the outset, only to have it dawn on us later. My gut feeling however is that we are. I feel like the Sat-Chit-Ananda (existence consciousness bliss) aspect of our reality is the one part that has always been us, and will always be us. This view is certainly supported by the scriptures, like all of them, from every spiritual tradition (or at least all the ones that I have studied).
Christi |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 10:37:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
But is it really true that we are that stillness always? My (silly little cloud-)thought is: we are purifying for some reason. Is that in order to be able to PERCEIVE truth and the inner stillnes more and more clear - we sort of have it all in us, we just don't see it. Or is it to prepare the body to be able to have more stillness in us, so in the beginning we actually ARE not that to the same degree... ? Some say we purify in order to be able to RECIEVE or HOLD greater amounts of energy as well as higher frequency of it. Do you understand my thought? Am I really that great stillness already it's just my perception system of mind and body that has to purify to be able to make me realize it?
Hi EMC,
From my current perspective we are stillness. We are pure being. I think we have a lot of energy invested in our thoughts and emotions and that these "energies" create a virtual world for us that can be quite captivating. Our thoughts loaded with this energy grabs our attention and awareness and we lose sight of the subtle that lays underneath and around it all. I feel that as we meditate and release energy from these thoughts and emotions, we realize that these virtual worlds of thought are not us. As our practices and efforts slowly release the energy we have invested in our thoughts and emotions, perhaps it returns to our being somehow or strengthens our ability to attune to it? Who knows great question...
So I have no idea if I am right or not but I see us going through a process, call it purification if you want, of releasing energy from our virtual created worlds in our minds. Once enough has been cleared out, we can see the sun of "being" peeking through the clouds of thought.
A
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 10:44:41 AM
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Think of the sun shining through a dust covered mirror. The sun being the true Self, the dust being the personality.
When we clean the dust from the mirror, through AYP Practices, or other means, the sun clearly shines through. In other words, when we are rid of the personality [ego] we are left with who we truly are, and have always been, but was difficult to perceive because of the personality. But progress will become obvious by the [sun's rays] manifold attributes, when we realize that we are not separate.
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Jan 05 2007 10:58:32 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 1:57:33 PM
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Hi All
Lovely, Andrew
Our awareness is as it is. It is always supreme reality. Always shining. But the contraction of thinking oneself to be a personbody (...sorry...I know that's not proper English) is made up of both conscious and unconscious material. For instance: I can say "i am writing this" - while at the same time witnessing both the writing and the saying that "I am doing it." None of it is truth. I am neither writing, nor is the writing something I do. There is simply writing. This is awareness of clouds in consciousness. I am aware that I am thinking myself to be something I am not. The instant I see this - the disidentification is here..... and space is "visible" as nothing. Stillness is then "audible"....a little more "shine" shines through in that opening. However - the instant I identify with either action or the collection of thoughts that make up "me"....then the limitations and "loss" of awareness appears. Awareness is never lost - but it does appear to be.
Deeper than these clouds, lies the obstructions that come with unconscious (reactions we are not aware of, limitations in our psyche, attachments we don't see etc) material within the bodymind. These are much harder to uncover because we often resist them to avoid pain. We would rather live in a "make-believe-world" that is "appearantly less painful and easy" than in reality...which is truth. Always. Truth is stark.
It can sting when in appearant collition with our ideas of how things should be.
emc wrote:
quote:
But is it really true that we are that stillness always? My (silly little cloud-)thought is: we are purifying for some reason. Is that in order to be able to PERCEIVE truth and the inner stillnes more and more clear - we sort of have it all in us, we just don't see it. Or is it to prepare the body to be able to have more stillness in us, so in the beginning we actually ARE not that to the same degree... ? Some say we purify in order to be able to RECIEVE or HOLD greater amounts of energy as well as higher frequency of it. Do you understand my thought? Am I really that great stillness already it's just my perception system of mind and body that has to purify to be able to make me realize it?
Well...when you firmly believe yourself to be your body, then these questions occur. The contraction of limiting yourself to the body is itself a thought thing. It is the main cloud. To perceive truth, this cloud (which is a set of memories/thoughts that make up the bodyperson) must be seen for what it is - an appearance in consciousness.
.....I stand on a mountaintop on a cloudy day...the sun is not visible. If I could broaden my vision and get "airplanesight" right here - I would see the sun.....or rather, the light emitting from the sun. It is always here. And the truth is that we are the source of this light, the light itself, and all that is permeated by its shine. Which is everything.
So yes, emc. Purification is in order for us to see clearly. Not because we are not always pure and aware and still - but because we think we are the obstructions (clouds) themselves. This "thinking ourselves to be this and that" is in the way of perceiving the shine . The thicker clouds (the more clutter) - the less light shines through. But the light is ever there, ever shining. Clouds or not.
Purification both releases unconscious material and reveals the context (the source) of the conscious material.
And yes - the body must be prepared. Simply because the clouds themselves are glued to the body. They are themselves the bodyperson. The fire of purification - if too strong - can destroy the nervoussystem. There is, however, grace. I cannot explain....but grace
................................sorry, I can't explain about grace.
Yogani?
quote:
I can just watch it do it's thing and realize that I am always "being", that I am the stillness which it all comes out of.
Yes. And this realization simply happens - it is not our doing. It is pure light shining through the available opening....through the space cleared. Thus a quiet consciousness reflects truth.
All the statements made on "truth" , "reality", "light" , "clear mirrors" etc are wonderful. But only pointers. They cannot "take you here" - only point you in the non-direction - the non'leaving. It is easy to forget this, and be absorbed in the idea of truth, rather than immersing onself in it.
To die in truth is not so easy for a personbody. It is much easier to talk about it However - the ideas that are true pointers to truth are helpful. (Andrew - I loved your post ). I still let myself be steared into stillness by such words. Once I am home, the ideas drops. The hunger is gone then. Menues are tempting....but nothing fulfills like real food.
emc - yes, you really are stillness. You really are supreme reality. I am too. The same reality. We really are one. Whether you believe it or not. That's the beauty of it  . Doubt is good. It makes me inquire. It won't let me settle for an idea. Eventually, I find out for myself that I am. Just relax. The more i relax, the less attachments to mental concepts.
Absolute faith is good too. Actually.....it is the moments (long or short) of absolute faith in the fact and lovingness of reality that purifies the most in the nervoussystem in the bodyperson Katrine  . I just realized this! Something happens.....simply happens out of nowhere....and there is not a trace of doubt left in me that I am...all....the shine. Always in Love. Deep, deep....not fathomable. This....absolute faith....does not burn the body (why is this, Yogani?). It is the most gentle touch.....oh....I can't explain.
I don't know....but it clicks....absolute faith must be grace. It is so easy, so quiet, so fulfilled, so vast.....descending into the Heart. A light, light, light touch of Silence.
When writing like this takes place, it points me nowhere too. I remember. I stay home because of you guys!! Thank you, all of you.
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 3:10:23 PM
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Hi Andrew, Katrine and All:
Beautiful descriptions of the indescribable.
Grace is our joining with the divine process, and the divine process joining with us, which is knowingness, oneness and outpouring divine love. It is what we find on the other side of purification, in bits at first, and eventually full time. The clouds are clearing.
It doesn't burn because the burning is done, at least for now. 
As our sphere of stillness expands in the environment, there will be more purification -- no one will be left behind.
The guru is in you.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 4:25:09 PM
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Hm... Christi, thanks a lot for your post, it made me feel less silly! I love all the wonderful posts of you all in this thread, it is truly great to read... Anthem, thank you for starting it!
So... knowing it is not helpful to form pictures at all... is it more accurate to form a picture of the increasing energies flowing through the chakras and spine as a bigger and bigger broom? A bigger and bigger tool that purifies us so that we can see what we really are? The same "beingness" is there all the time, but the transformation process is the cleaning company coming wiping the obstructions out so that we can realize our being. From the start we have no broom - or do we? Is that the difference? Is the broom there latent, waiting also to be used, or is it added to us? And the warnings along the trip is "don't clean too quickly, the friction will burn you". Sort of...?!?
Gosh, I just love you guys answering and writing to this little mind-cloud. I am so thankful! =) My higher self must be laughing its ass off...
(I picked an archetype card today reflecting my "Highest potential", and I got the STUDENT: I Have a pattern of constant learning, openness to new information as an essential part of my well-being. ) |
Edited by - emc on Jan 05 2007 4:29:25 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2007 : 11:24:51 PM
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Thanks to everyone for continuing this thread and for all the insightful replies, discussing really helps to clarify these perspectives for me.
Hi Katrine,
I was hoping I could ask you a few questions?
I was wondering if you are still continually becoming aware of unconscious "clouds" or does there come a point where all within is uncovered?
Is your experience and awareness of "stillness" ever expanding and changing?
Do you find that the energy experience for you is a continuous unfolding and expanding too?
I would love to hear your perspectives.
with gratitude,
Anthem11
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Ingwer
France
4 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2007 : 06:58:17 AM
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...it is grace when there is nothing left but "YES"
...it is truth when even "YES" is gone
Love to all of you & thanks so much for sharing...
Ingwer |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2007 : 09:06:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ingwer
...it is grace when there is nothing left but "YES"
...it is truth when even "YES" is gone
Thanks.
Oh!... and Welcome... |
Edited by - Shanti on Jan 06 2007 09:10:53 AM |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2007 : 8:29:57 PM
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Hello Everyone!
Speaking of clouds...perhaps some of you will find this little excerpt from the Mystical Classic 'The Cloud of Unknowing' to be spiritually relevant.
Our intense need to understand will always be a powerful stumbling block to our attempts to reach God in simple love, and must always be overcome. For if you do not overcome this need to understand, it will undermine your quest. It will replace the darkness which you have pierced to reach God, with clear images of something which, however good, however beautiful, however Godlike, is not God. So, therefore, never give up your resolve, but beat away at this cloud of unknowing between you and God with that sharp dart of longing love. And so I urge you, go after experience rather than knowledge. On account of pride, knowledge may often deceive you, but this gentle, loving affection will not deceive you. Knowledge tends to breed conceit, but love builds. Knowledge is full of labor, but love, full of rest.
OM! Aham Brahmasmi!
Doc |
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Saradhvaja
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 01:02:50 AM
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My favorite topic.....anyway I just thought i would share a quote.
Theres a road to the West that nobody takes
people want out but HELL has no gate
jeweled pavilions and terraces are empty
cauldrons and ovens are full
Look for the real and it becomes more distant
try to end delusions and they just increase
followers of the Way have a place that stays serene
when the moon is in the sky its reflection is in the waves
Trying to become a buddha is easy
but ending delusions is hard
how many frosty moonlit nights
have I sat and felt the cold before dawn
stripped of conditions my mind is blank
emptied of existense my nature is bare
often at night my windows turn white
the moon and the stream visit my door
Work with no mind and all work stops
no more passion or sorrow
but dont think no mind means your done
the thought of no-mind still remains
No mind in my work the wind through trees
no work in my mind the wind through space
windsound and moonlight wear away
one layer then another
====================
One more fun quote .....> My body has a mind of its own...so what does it need me for ?? |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 08:14:02 AM
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Magnificent Saradhvaja thanks, and welcome to the forum.
Thanks Doc, have read The Cloud of Unknowing a few times in the past, the translation by William Johnston. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 08:54:53 AM
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Thank you, Yogani
Welcome, Ingwer
Hi Andrew:
quote:
I was wondering if you are still continually becoming aware of unconscious "clouds"
Yes. There is contiunal awareness of clouds.......which is essentially the same as increasingly "staying with the awareness itself" (non-leaving) instead of involvement with the clouds.
quote:
or does there come a point where all within is uncovered
I honestly don't know, Andrew.
But yes, I imagine it to be so. But for this to be evident....there must first be continual awareness of clouds  . ]
So - some time back, I decided that it really was not important for me to know. In fact, I was much better off not knowing. Then all the energy can be invested in staying alert. In other words: I don't think about it. At all. I completely relax....and continual awareness happens of itself. It doesn't need my help.
quote:
Is your experience and awareness of "stillness" ever expanding and changing?
I don't know how to frase this.....
See......awareness.....stillness.....is not an experience (this sounds crazy...but what can I do). It is not me experiencing stillness....it is more like all experiences fade....and what is left is stillness. I am gone then. When I (me) come back (which is another cloud or set of clouds) ...there is less and less substantiality to these set of clouds. Less and less of "me" survives. Thus I realize i am not real. This is instant release....I sink deeper and deeper into the vastness....until the next time I am caught in a cloud. And so it goes. I am aware of being caught...sooner and sooner. The instant the identification with a cloud is revealed, that very instant all is well.
quote:
Do you find that the energy experience for you is a continuous unfolding and expanding too?
If you by "energy" mean Shakti (Kundalini) or ecstacy - then ...no...the fire of Kundalini is not unfolding or expanding. There is always the raging fire; the intense ecstacy. Much broader than the body....way above the head. It is one and the same. I am still in awe that it is possible for this body to survive so much ecstacy without loosing consciousness. But the outcome of this purging is definitely unfolding. There is less and less boarders. More and more acceptance. A heart full of love. Even a dirty brick of waste from a torn down house is beautiful....shining. The people and situations I found the most difficult in "my life" are seen as true gifts from existence. All my previously judged "bad personality traits" are left in peace - I enjoy Being; in spite of me.
While as earlier I had a constant desire to "express myself" - the desire is not here now. I am quiet. I don't play the flute....I don't play the piano....I don't sing.....I don't work on how to "save the world"; or how to "make this world a better place to live". I don't "cure people". I know I can't do those things. I am helpless. Yet - all is well. The process goes on. There will be changes. There is immense trust in the fact that the continuous unfoldment will take place. The flowers are already here. The flourishing is bound to happen.
There is no waiting. There is nothing to wait for. Everything is here.
The body is tired at times (the feet/legs hurt), yet the job change... makes it possible to sustain more of the ecstacy. And through this - grace .
Also - I am not a personbody where I work now. There is just service....spontanious communication...lots of physical duties. I am a nobody. It is such a relief to not have to waste energy in "building an identity". Thus I am allowed to love all I meet .......I am no threat to anybody.... people open up from the very start. I enjoy serving them....it is not simply "a duty". I receive gratefulness every day at work. For such simple things! I honestly didn't know how grateful people can be!
There are people who try to take advantage of the...non-position....they see me in. It doesn't matter - I used to be obtuse too. The fight for acceptance is so painful.....it steals so much energy.
Under the denseness of our minds lies the same bliss. Noone is excluded.
Andrew...
Thank you
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 08:57:51 AM
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| Welcome, Saradhvaja |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 12:26:54 PM
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Katrine, thank you for your great post, it is always a sort of relief the way your words take me back home.
quote:
Katrine wrote:Also - I am not a personbody where I work now. There is just service....spontanious communication...lots of physical duties. I am a nobody. It is such a relief to not have to waste energy in "building an identity". Thus I am allowed to love all I meet .......I am no threat to anybody.... people open up from the very start. I enjoy serving them....it is not simply "a duty". I receive gratefulness every day at work. For such simple things! I honestly didn't know how grateful people can be!
There are people who try to take advantage of the...non-position....they see me in. It doesn't matter - I used to be obtuse too. The fight for acceptance is so painful.....it steals so much energy.
This paragraph means so much to me, thank you.
When you say:There are people who try to take advantage of the...non-position....they see me in. It doesn't matter - I used to be obtuse too.
Do these people drain you or affect you negitively in any way?
Louis |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 2:31:50 PM
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Hello Louis
quote:
When you say:There are people who try to take advantage of the...non-position....they see me in. It doesn't matter - I used to be obtuse too.
Do these people drain you or affect you negitively in any way?
Only if I identify with the thought that it shouldn't be this way. That it is somehow "wrong" for them to do what they do. How can it be wrong..... when they are unaware of what they are doing and why they are doing it? It just happens. It is as it is. I stay open. I say "yes" or "no" ......whatever is needed right now. And all is well.
If I do identify with the "drama", pain is immediately there. This is usually enough to alert me. The pain alerts me to the fact that I have been unaware. By staying alert to the pain, I am propelled back home. All is well then.
If I resist the pain - only then is there drain. Only then is there memory tracks that will make me "close" and thus "protect myself". (While in truth this is just thinking myself separate). This creates further pain; and if resisted; further drain. If I still don't listen; then something drastic usually happens. Something so painful that the "wall of protection" cracks. I break then. And all is well.
So.....no matter how we tend to control.....however much we want to manipulate....however obtuse
Being sustains itself.
Always.
Thanks, Louis
See.....your words make me see I never left home |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 3:24:02 PM
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| Thank you, Katrine, wonderfully put about pain! I start to see that this is so true about pain. It is only a warning of separation going on! |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 3:39:38 PM
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Thank you Katrine for your replies, your words make me feel good, so simple.
A
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2007 : 6:32:32 PM
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Thanks Katrine, that's very helpful for what's going on for me at the moment.
Louis |
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