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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 14 2006 : 06:39:13 AM
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Or, rather, "Kirtanman 2.0.oh.oh.ohhhhhh-YEAH-BABY!"
(Picture Austin Powers with a Harmonium ..... or not.)
So, like, I attained Stage 2 of the Kechari mudra practice a short while ago.
WOW.
Off to bed.
("To sleep, perchance to fly through inner space ...." -- Shakespearananda )
And, it may go without saying --- but I'll say it:
MAJOR Thanks & Namaste to all of you who offered such awesome support, and awesomely pragmatic suggestions.
More detail, etc. some time after daybreak ....
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - They're not kidding about this inner space thing, are they? (as in: there's a good-sized cavern inside my head -- "who knew??" --- and seemingly, nothing else ... I'm presuming all the various naso-cranial geography we've discussed in great detail will present itself upon a teeny bit more tongue lengthening? Any suggestions / comments in that realm?) |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2006 : 08:01:56 AM
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| I want what he ordered, please... |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2006 : 08:37:26 AM
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| Congratulations Kirtanman! |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2006 : 12:44:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
Or, rather, "Kirtanman 2.0.oh.oh.ohhhhhh-YEAH-BABY!"
(Picture Austin Powers with a Harmonium ..... or not.)
So, like, I attained Stage 2 of the Kechari mudra practice a short while ago.
WOW.
Off to bed.
("To sleep, perchance to fly through inner space ...." -- Shakespearananda )
And, it may go without saying --- but I'll say it:
MAJOR Thanks & Namaste to all of you who offered such awesome support, and awesomely pragmatic suggestions.
More detail, etc. some time after daybreak ....
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - They're not kidding about this inner space thing, are they? (as in: there's a good-sized cavern inside my head -- "who knew??" --- and seemingly, nothing else ... I'm presuming all the various naso-cranial geography we've discussed in great detail will present itself upon a teeny bit more tongue lengthening? Any suggestions / comments in that realm?)
Did anyone tell you.. you speak real fast Kirtanman  .
Congratulations or reaching stage 2  . I know what you mean by inner space.. I still find it amazing how much of hidden space there is in there... enough for the tongue, don't you think? Like that space has been designed for the tongue to get in there some day..
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Nov 14 2006 : 5:48:59 PM
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Let us all guess, it was closer than you thought it was?
Congradulations. After much practice and dedication you have achieved one of your goals. That is a good feeling. Keep it up. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2006 : 5:21:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
I attained Stage 2 of the Kechari mudra practice a short while ago.
Kirtanman,
And I'm like, How? You just got snippage in late October. I got my nipper in the mail today and made my first little scratch, which, hurt a little: enough to give me pause.
You?
B.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 3:50:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
I attained Stage 2 of the Kechari mudra practice a short while ago.
Kirtanman,
And I'm like, How? You just got snippage in late October. I got my nipper in the mail today and made my first little scratch, which, hurt a little: enough to give me pause.
You?
B.
Hi Bewell,
Well .... I did inadvertently remove a good chunk of my tongue and my lower lip, but hey --- I'm in Kechari!
Shoulda bought smaller clippers ....
And, yes, as you might guess ....
The above verbiage is a joke (or a modest attempt at one), which shall now be signified by the vaunted
symbol.
But Seriously:
The most succinct answer I know how to give here is:
Yogani's right ----- it's ALL about the Bhakti!
There's some place within you that has an awareness / knowingness regarding your readiness.
If you're truly ready - nothing will hold you back for long.
If you're not -- I don't think there's much that can help, or make it easy.
As with other areas of life / practice, I imagine that we may be able to "bulldoze" our way into kechari --- but specifically per snippage, that seems like it would be a very "unfun" way to proceed.
As I referred to it recently, I went through the whole "Kirtanman Whine-a-thon" thing, which I'm sure was just about equally fun for both myself and my readers .... ("or not"  ).
During that time, I would literally stand in front of the mirror for 30 to 90 mins. at a time, get just the right angle ... move in with great trepidation -- and barely pinch myself -- which definitely gave me pause!
I thought [profanity and semi-articulate sounds of anguish edited out for brevity] "Hm - if a little pinch hurts *this* much, an actual Snip must be agonizing!"
I COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MORE INCORRECT ON THAT POINT, IN 3 KEY WAYS:
1. That initial pinch represents about 98% of the pain, and the pressure needed to make a true snip - literally 2% more pressure (for me, and likely for you, I would guess) -- and you end up with the same amount of pain, *and* a modified frenulum!
2. Bhakti is great pain medicine! I was finally *so* ready for kechari from a bhakti standpoint, that I was fully willing to sign up for whatever pain there might be. Bhakti (when you're actively feeling it) greatly reduces both fear and stress, in my experience -- which in turn reduces perception of pain (meaning: a snip, in a state of near ecstasy, hurts a lot less than a snip in a state of stress and fear).
3. As with most things we fear, I learned that my fears were largely unfounded - even the couple of snips (due to *error* on my part - meaning: if you follow standard, outlined snipping procedures, this won't happen to you) that hurt more than expected, and bled more than expected -- were not *that* bad, compared to many things in life.
The worst experience I had, was when the clippers slipped, and I cut way down by the bottom of the frenulum / muscle, and off to the side (a location that I don't think did me any good, kechari-wise) - *and* more deeply than intended. The level and type of soreness after making the snip was worse - and hurt every time I moved my tongue - and there was a significantly greater amount of blood - enough that it pooled in the bottom of my mouth --- so it was kind of a big deal.
For all of 15 seconds or so.
Then, the pain subsided to near-zero very rapidly, and after about two more minutes, I didn't even feel it. I rinsed my mouth a couple of times, and the bleeding reduced so much (in about 15 seconds) that I didn't taste or feel it again.
And that was A. a "horrible accident" - snipping gone awry!, and B. several orders of magnitude worse than anything else I experienced.
I quickly developed the opposite problem --- hey - this ain't so bad! I wonder what pruning shears could do?? Stage 4 by tomorrow night - woo-hoo!!
And "per that", I may have gotten a bit aggressive ---- but it all comes out in the Bhakti-wash (meaning: I sit here today, as a Kechari 2 practitioner, feeling very, very satisfied and grateful for both the process and the results!).
Two other key points you may find helpful:
1. "Less is More" -- as I'm learning more and more is often the case, Yogani was exactly, specifically and oh so accurately _correct_ - along with yogic teachers from ages gone by: making a cut the width of a hair is *not* far off, in terms of what is both possible and helpful.
IF you have the coordination to do this (I ended up figuring it out, via trial and error) - it's very unlikely that you will get any blood, OR any pain.
Not being able to do this in the beginning, I got both blood and pain -- but relatively very little of each --- and not enough to deter me even the tiniest bit (this from a guy who was going to drop several hundred bucks with a local dentist, purely to avoid the "agony of snipping"!)
2. VERY, VERY Important --- Kechari is a "package deal"!
The reasons I was able to attain stage 2 (and I'm *barely* in stage 2) seemingly so fast, are:
A. I had been in "advanced stage 1" for a LONG time (several months) - and MAY have been able to actually get to stage 2 without snipping (attaining stage 2 may have been almost as much a result of the technique suggestions, and becoming familiar with the inner geography of my soft palate, as from snipping ---- though snipping clearly made some difference -- but as part of the total package, the most important component of which, is:
B. (is for) BHAKTI!!
Bhakti (earnestness, devotion, yearning-desire) is THE key - to success with Kechari, and all other practices.
When your Bhakti has you truly ready for something, the "something" (kechari stage 2, in my case, currently) will manifest quickly.
AND (just as importantly), your Bhakti is the key to a deep and successful kechari practice --- because it drives the ecstatic conductivity, which causes kechari benefits to be noticeable / tangible, in a person's practice.
I had so much Bhakti / ecstatic conductivity flowing, that I would literally go into throes of ecstasy with stage 1 kechari --- and that's the only reason (I'm guessing, strongly) that stage 2 has been a big deal for me (to desire, and to realize).
So far, the increase in ecstatic conductivity benefits have been major - but not the biggest benefit.
As Yogani says: attaining kechari stage 2 literally closes a key energy circuit in the body-mind system (including subtle bodies) - and thereby creates benefits in *every* aspect of our practice - and in our yogic evolution - and our capacity for yogic evolution.
THAT'S why Kechari is such a big deal (for anyone who may not really *get* this, or who doesn't know what I'm referencing - please read, or re-read Lesson 108 - Kechari Mudra - A Giant Leap for Humankind - http://www.aypsite.org/108.html
(And this is just a guess .... but I'm guessing the fact that the lesson number - 108 - is the most sacred number in all of yogic tradition ---- is not exactly a coincidence).
Considering all that -- I was more than willing to get past my fear - but - PLEASE note -- I very much found that this couldn't be forced.
You may recall that there was a gap (a couple of months?) between my flurry of "Kirtanman Whine-a-thon" posts ("Snipping scary --- Ahhhhh"! ), and my recent success.
During that time, I just continued practices, didn't think about snipping or stage 2 all that much --- and found that strong desire and genuine sense of readiness recently re-awakened -- and from there, it was all very much downhill.
Not to put to fine a point on it, but the "no pain, no gain" mantra that many of us in the West were raised with, is a load of crap.
When there's full readiness for anything in life - including advances in yogic practice - it can flow quite easily, when the timing is right - if we allow it to (big "if", obviously!).
Hope that helps!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 3:58:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
I want what he ordered, please...
I love it!
"When Kirtanman Met The Inner Beloved"
Starring Billy Crystal as Kirtanman and Meg Ryan as The Inner Beloved
Meg Ryan? Could work ......!
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 4:10:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kyman
Let us all guess, it was closer than you thought it was?
Err .... "affirmative".
And actually: on the one hand - yeah, absolutely.
On the other hand - being in Stage 1 for a long time [and often at least an hour or two a day) made a difference, snipping made a difference, all the good technical suggestions (including yours) made a difference, learning the geography made a difference, and (first and foremost) the right levels of Bhakti made a difference.
So, I agree absolutely with the statement you made: the actual distance was a *lot* less than I thought it would be - but it took quite a bit to cover that little bit of distance!
There's a *slim* possibility in my mind that I could have gotten to Stage 2 before I started snipping, if I had known the rest --- but I'm not 100% on that --- it also seems like the bit of snipping (and subsequent stretching in Kechari Stage 1) that I did, gave me the *tiny* bit of additional length needed to "hook" my tongue behind the uvula and soft palate - and as soon as I could do that, I was literally *in* Stage 2!
quote:
Congradulations. After much practice and dedication you have achieved one of your goals. That is a good feeling. Keep it up.
Thanks very much.
I will say, though -- that reading those words, it sounds a little like you're saying, "So, you had a nice day with your new family - that's great!" --- to a woman who just had a baby.
That day.
As in:
Kechari really isn't a big deal.
It's a HUGE deal.
(For more on that, please see my response to Bewell, and/or Lesson 108 and other Kechari Lessons - and/or your own experience ...!)
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
PS - And thanks again for your specific suggestions -- you had 2 or 3 separate posts that were *very* helpful to me (and hopefully others), concerning Kechari techniques. |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 5:05:19 PM
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quote:
Did anyone tell you.. you speak real fast Kirtanman .
Hi Shweta,
Er -- We've spoken recently??
(And - "surprise, surprise" - or not ...... yes, I've been told that for a while now ---- roughly as long as I've been .... talking - as a matter of fact ...!)
(I had thought I'd evolve into the slow, measured and infrequent speech patterns of the yogic masters ...... "not so far". )
quote:
Congratulations or reaching stage 2 . I know what you mean by inner space.. I still find it amazing how much of hidden space there is in there... enough for the tongue, don't you think? Like that space has been designed for the tongue to get in there some day..
Thanks! And yes, I agree with your assessment, re: tongue, space, etc.
It's so easy for the rational / logical mind to jump in, and say "but, but - it's not natural! You're mutilating yourself, just to engage in some weird practice!"
In fact, one of the many voices in my head said pretty much exactly that, when I first learned of Kechari (glad I didn't listen!).
However --- there's SO much we don't know --- and I agree fully: from the side of the actual experience, it feels consummately natural, and something that is clearly "yogically natural" in the same way that other mudras and bandhas are "yogically natural" (there's a feeling of rightness, efficacy, and in some case, tangible benefit - merely by performing the given mudra or bandha -- and Kechari certainly "qualifies").
By the way - for anyone who is curious about the medical / health angle, a couple of quick "data points":
1. I did research laser surgery, as a form a "instant snipping" -- and without going into other aspects of it (cost, convincing your chosen dentist that you're not a raving whack-job, etc.) --- reducing / almost removing the frenulum beneath the tongue is a *very* common procedure, often done for children with speech issues, which can be cured via that procedure.
(And I know of at least a couple of AYP folks who have had it done - my point is: it's much more common than we may have realized - and "per that", we can rest easy as far as any physical health risks.
2. I spoke with a medical doctor I know, concerning any health risks, or lack thereof, which might stem from sticking one's tongue up one's own nose, from the inside (aka Kechari Mudra).
He was mildly befuzzled as to the reasons / benefits, but took a moment to consider the attendant physiology (including things like infection risk, etc.), and his conclusion was, "Go for it".
So, just FYI -- "Kechari does a body good!"
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 5:23:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
2. I spoke with a medical doctor I know, concerning any health risks, or lack thereof, which might stem from sticking one's tongue up one's own nose, from the inside (aka Kechari Mudra). He was mildly befuzzled as to the reasons / benefits, but took a moment to consider the attendant physiology (including things like infection risk, etc.), and his conclusion was, "Go for it".
Hi Kirtanman:
We should put him in touch with the doctor who ranted and raved against kechari at one of John Wilder's lectures.
Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 5:32:24 PM
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I went to a nose specialist because of some breathing troubles, and he said I had a small problem which can be aided by those elastic bands you put on your nose when sleeping at night.
Then I asked him about kechari to see if there was anything to learn from this professional. I only learned how narrow his expertise was. You would think someone in his position would know all about kechari. Western medicine....
K 2.0. The death of 1.0 is the birth of 2.0. 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.0, are all to come. Reading your post reminded me of Yogani's radio show, which I have to say Yogani, was really great to hear. As was mentioned, you do have a beautiful voice. I enjoyed that new degree of intimacy very much. But you had mentioned the cat and mouse game. We have to be patient like a cat, who will sit in stillness in front of the mouse hole. And when that cat is moved from within at the right time, it makes its catch.
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Edited by - Kyman on Nov 16 2006 5:36:56 PM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2006 : 10:15:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Kirtanman
I had so much Bhakti / ecstatic conductivity flowing, that I would literally go into throes of ecstasy with stage 1 kechari
Thanks, Kirtanman, for the fine details. I'm feeling the Bhakti.
B. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2006 : 10:28:55 AM
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| Last night after reading your post, skimming lesson 108, and replying (above), I went to bed, and into the night, I enjoyed an exceptionally pronounced strand of conductivity extending up from my soft palette through my nasal pharynx to my eyebrow center. I was readily able to see how my tongue could bridge the gap between the energy coming up from my root through my spine with the energy going up from my soft palette. And I felt the desire to do so, playing around with parameters of stage one. At present I am able to skim the surface of my soft palette with the top of and the tip of my tongue (up to about a half inch back from my hard palette with the tip; further back with the top). Lovely. I intend to fully enjoy my stage 1 virginity while it lasts. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Sep 16 2014 : 7:38:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
Last night after reading your post, skimming lesson 108, and replying (above), I went to bed, and into the night, I enjoyed an exceptionally pronounced strand of conductivity extending up from my soft palette through my nasal pharynx to my eyebrow center. I was readily able to see how my tongue could bridge the gap between the energy coming up from my root through my spine with the energy going up from my soft palette. And I felt the desire to do so, playing around with parameters of stage one. At present I am able to skim the surface of my soft palette with the top of and the tip of my tongue (up to about a half inch back from my hard palette with the tip; further back with the top). Lovely. I intend to fully enjoy my stage 1 virginity while it lasts.
Eight years later, here I am again, and this week, I have gone into Kechari 2. Thanks again to Kirtanman for his inspirational posts that got me started back when.
Namaste,
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Anibaru
Chile
72 Posts |
Posted - Sep 17 2014 : 09:34:07 AM
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| Beautiful!! , welcome to the Kecharas you too! |
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Kirtanman 2.0
