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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 05 2006 : 8:42:10 PM
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Great topic, Comdyne!
About spelling errors, I think David was mostly right when he said that a lot of relaxation can cause it. Also not having the time to type slowly can cause it. I've noticed that when I want to convey and point and have very little time I can forget tons of words in my typing.
That was a prime example of this effect. I typed that sentence out quickly and instead of typing "a" before the word point I typed "and".
Yoga certainly doesn't make you stupid, though. It just makes the everyday subconscious tasks into conscious ones. At least that's what I've noticed. But it should smooth out after getting used to it.
Dave said something about his guru becoming silent. He said it had to do with thinking about what to say before saying it...I will relay my experience, but it doesn't have to do with deeply thinking about what to say...Between ideas I go into a split second samadhi sometimes. It's especially true after meditation, when I'm still feeling blissful and quiet. If someone tries talking to me it's normally a pretty much one sided conversation. I will reply to their questions and make a comment, but nothing more comes out of my mind. I'm pretty much blank.
It doesn't help that I have a lot of one-pointedness of mind, so that when I'm in a conversation with someone and for a second not paying attention to what they're saying, I can start focusing on the appearance of their face and get lost in it. Then I won't even hear what they're saying. So it's kind of challenging for me to keep up long conversations. By the way, I don't have ADD or anything. I just attribute it to my state of mental absorption. I started becoming very focused on everything after getting deeper into yoga....so I definitely attribute this type of state of mind to that. |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2006 : 11:54:34 PM
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Zo diz iz 3Nl8nm3nT.
H@iL D@ Pr0ph3t yA'lL. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 09:30:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
It's especially true after meditation, when I'm still feeling blissful and quiet. If someone tries talking to me it's normally a pretty much one sided conversation. I will reply to their questions and make a comment, but nothing more comes out of my mind. I'm pretty much blank.
That happens to me too Scott.
quote:
Originally posted by Scott
It doesn't help that I have a lot of one-pointedness of mind, so that when I'm in a conversation with someone and for a second not paying attention to what they're saying, I can start focusing on the appearance of their face and get lost in it. Then I won't even hear what they're saying. So it's kind of challenging for me to keep up long conversations. By the way, I don't have ADD or anything. I just attribute it to my state of mental absorption. I started becoming very focused on everything after getting deeper into yoga....so I definitely attribute this type of state of mind to that.
Scott.. is this good though? Last year.. I could be working on a program, talking to a client and reading an email .. all at the same time and I was on top of all of it.. or could have 5 sessions going for 5 different clients.. and was never lost. But these days.. I can focus on one thing only.. my mind just blanks out on the others.. like if i am reading an email and talking to a client.. I have to stop reading.. else I will miss out on stuff the client says. I thought it was a getting old thing .. but if this is happening to you.. it cant be age... it must be yoga. I know I had a lot of nervous energy till last year.. and now I am calm.. So with calmness/yoga does your efficiency decrease? |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 10:10:40 AM
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Hi Shanti,
quote:
So with calmness/yoga does your efficiency decrease?
I hope not and I don't think so in general. It's a known fact that average humans only use a fraction of their brain power under normal conditions. And I have heard that yoga will make more of our brain power available to us. In my own case, since I started with AYP, if I have seen any change in mental capacity it would be that it's increased, with better focus and organisation, rather than the other way.
I understand that as energy and visions etc. may come up in yoga, they can pull the attention away from everyday life. And after meditation, as Scott mentions, one can still feel absorbed in the inner silence. But if this continues out into normal daily life and one feels less efficient mentally, I think it's a case of not being grounded well enough, rather than of less mental power or organisation. So, there could maybe be a need for more grounding and/or self-pacing. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 10:44:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by weaver
And I have heard that yoga will make more of our brain power available to us. In my own case, since I started with AYP, if I have seen any change in mental capacity it would be that it's increased, with better focus and organisation, rather than the other way.
I understand that as energy and visions etc. may come up in yoga, they can pull the attention away from everyday life. And after meditation, as Scott mentions, one can still feel absorbed in the inner silence. But if this continues out into normal daily life and one feels less efficient mentally, I think it's a case of not being grounded well enough, rather than of less mental power or organisation. So, there could maybe be a need for more grounding and/or self-pacing.[/size=2]
Hi Weaver,
No, I don't think my mental power has reduced in the least bit.. I am more focused..however focused on one thing at a time.. don't seem to be as good at multitasking as I used to be.. that's all.. Not that I am worried.. I am enjoying being myself the way I am now.. and not going back to what I used to be.. But since Scott brought up the topic.. I realized.. it may not have been a age thing after all.. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 10:51:52 AM
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| Good to hear Shanti! Mental power is always nice. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 11:12:18 AM
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Hey guys,
quote:
Scott.. is this good though?
...
So with calmness/yoga does your efficiency decrease?
I think it's good. Yes a little bit, but not as a rule. It takes some getting used to. I used to have trouble driving my car because of my one pointedness of mind, but I stuck with it (because I had no other choice) and now it's as easy as before. Multitasking is probably out of the question as you progress in yoga...but you can still handle the same workload. It just scatters the energies...meaning you will have to constantly be putting your mind here and putting it over there, so it's a bit more stressful than just relaxing into whatever you're doing. But stress is a part of life, it's what we do with it that's either good or bad...so in my opinion "it's all good". 
Weaver,
quote:
But if this continues out into normal daily life and one feels less efficient mentally, I think it's a case of not being grounded well enough, rather than of less mental power or organisation.
That can certainly be the case with someone who isn't experiencing a drastic one pointedness of mind like what I'm referring to. Then if they feel like they can't handle certain tasks mentally, they should probably go for a walk, eat something, etc. We all know the drill.
What I'm referring to is different, though. It's mental absorption which occurs all day. An intense focusing on whatever you put your attention on. It isn't a direct result of yoga practices or energy fluctuations in the body....although those two do bring it about. But if I were to stop practicing AYP and go for long walks everyday eating steak all day...basically completely grounding myself...I would still have this state of mind. There's no way to ground it, besides doing our everyday activities when outside of practices. That's why it's recommended we do something physical, mental, social, etc...once we're doing doing yoga.
Shweta,
quote:
No, I don't think my mental power has reduced in the least bit.. I am more focused..however focused on one thing at a time.. don't seem to be as good at multitasking as I used to be.. that's all.. Not that I am worried.. I am enjoying being myself the way I am now.. and not going back to what I used to be..
Word, homie. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 11:25:06 AM
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Yoga has certainly improved my concentration and mental agility immensely.
I have to agree though, that it has disposed me considerably against multi-tasking. I just don't want to multi-task, I want to focus on one thing, and then move onto the next.
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2006 : 4:38:23 PM
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| My vote: the whole spelling thing has to do with the fact that we are on an internet forum. It's so conversational in energy that it encourages people to type faster and more casually. |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 06:19:18 AM
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Hi David,
quote:
Yoga has certainly improved my concentration and mental agility immensely.
I remember you said this before. While I found many people went through this yogic stuffs have some wisdom (at least the kind of wisdom that I don't have) and it's quite reasonable that the wisdom is somehow related to yoga; I don't see many people with intelligence (IQ) as in its usual sense.
The difference between the two is familiar to us: we can find many young children with high IQ but with no wisdom at all. Wisdom is a bigger thing, yet it will grow with our age while IQ will not (usually not, at least).
By mental agility, David, you seems to refer to the latter. Your sense of humor and analytical mind seems to confirm that you have high intelligence. I are really curious to know if you were like that since you were young. If you were less intelligent, since intelligence seldom increases with age, we can make some remarkable postulates about the effects of yoga when one wishes to develop in that direction.
Alvin |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 06:54:34 AM
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I have found my brain to totally logg out more and more often. I do not have access to memory, logical thinking or capability to process information. It is sometimes terrifying, because I do not know how I will be able to function in this world and especially at work, but somehow it works.
Reading a newspaper is futile. I do not comprehend what I read. I forget the beginning of the sentence before I come to the end, and is not able to get the message at all. The only thing that works is reading spiritual books. I have strongly felt it is time to give away most of my old books. They do not serve me anylonger, but I know many others will benefit from them, so I am giving them away now.
I watched a theater play the other week. I saw that the actors were emotional and felt unease - much anger in the play. But I could not tell anyone afterwards what the plot was or what the message was. I did not even understand the jokes in it. The audience laughed, I asked my partner to tell me later what the point was.
Those days when I feel I have absolutely no brain, I humbly ask in the mornings for a day with no need of cognitive efforts. So far, my prayers have been responded to. For example, I found myself caught in being a chauffeur a whole day instead of doing what I was supposed to do.
I find a bigger and bigger conflict in working as a teacher. I feel I have to stand and inform the students about false things. Pretending to take the world seriously, educating them into a more and more firm identity, supporting their forming of attitudes and opinions instead of teaching them the pointlessness in having attitudes and opinions, that it is only mind-enforcing.
I think I have been so stuck in an identity of being "smart", "fast", "clever" and "intelligent", so life wants me to experience the opposite, to make it clear to me that my intellectual brain will not be of any help for me anylonger. Not the way it used to. It is hopefully a phase.
Oh, and I can recognize myself in Katrines post. I do not even find words like "arm chair" sometimes, I stumble and stutter when talking. I have never stuttered before...
I am beginning to get really useless as a man-machine.  |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 10:08:39 AM
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EMC,
What you write worries me. I sincerely hope that Yoga in the long term will not make our brain less powerful or make us less useful intellectually in this society, where indeed intellectualism is highly valued and promoted. I do think that our society needs more heart, compassion and spiritual values, but it can only come as the individuals develop and value it more.
EMC, what you write I still think are symptoms of purification and not a developing permanent state. Being a teacher myself I can relate to what you say. It's very important for our children to have examples who can teach them (between the lines of the regular subjects) about the basic principles of life. There are many teachable moments in all the interactions that happen all the time. I hope you will continue being a teacher. I have found more meaning and creativity in my job since starting with Yoga, and the students can sense that as well.
About the identity part, I think that it's important for children to develop their identities in a constructive way in order to function successfully in society, even if these identities may be synthetic in the universal sense. Later, as adults, they can choose through the path of Yoga to shed them again, but it's their choice.
All the best! |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 10:23:56 AM
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Weaver,
I agree with you that EMC's experiences are more purification than actual long term effects of yoga. Her energies have recently been stirred up, and they have to get back into the patterns that they are used to going in. Yoga doesn't disable us in any way...for instance, making us unable to understand things like a newspaper or the point of a play. Taking those things to be the actual desired effect of yoga practices can be dangerous. Our minds are powerful, and we are capable of making ourselves dumb simply by believing we're becoming dumber.
EMC,
About not being able to read normal (unspiritual) books anymore...I found the same thing happen to myself. A lot of people with awakened kundalinis experience the same effect. It's mostly because all that you care about is spirituality. If you don't care about something, obviously you're not going to pay attention to it. But yoga is about self mastery. If you're incapable of reading a fiction novel, for instance, then how much self mastery do you have? Not much it seems.
Hopefully you'll be able to get back into balance soon enough. Then you can read all the romance novels and newspapers you want. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 10:27:14 AM
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| I agree that these symptoms are in part due to purification. I believe that everything will catch up and be put in proper perspective. We may not continue to function the same as before. Look at all of the changing we are inviting upon ourselves. Go figure ;-) |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 10:29:00 AM
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Hi Weaver,
What EMC is going through is a phase.. I went through it for awhile. This phase does change you.. You get less interested in a lot of things that seemed so very important at one point. This is also the phase that reduces your ability to multitask and gets you more focused on the job at hand.
Like EMC said.. you tend to forget everything .. however when you need it.. it just comes back
"I have found my brain to totally logg out more and more often. I do not have access to memory, logical thinking or capability to process information. It is sometimes terrifying, because I do not know how I will be able to function in this world and especially at work, but somehow it works. "
Its like the mind refuses to be bogged down by useless information that is not required at the current time, however nothing is lost.. when you need it.. its all there.
I had talked about this here
Ether had said it well:
quote:
it probably has more to do with change in your intent, and priorities. You have probably learned that it is not important to remember all that stuff because you can write it down, and would rather use your brain in other, more relaxing ways. The more you use your brain to remember things, the better you will get at it, and vice versa.
If your life depended on it, I guarantee you could remember it all like you used to.
But it's true happiness is more important. My less intelligent friends are in general more happy than my more intelligent friends! I think the intelligent people try to take responsibility for too many things just because they understand them. They think too much. The brain is a tool, and tools are meant to be used, then put away for a while. Most people use their brain like the guy who thinks pliers are so great he tries to do everything with them in his hands.
And so had Brett:
quote:
Great topic. I have had an ongoing conversation with a friend over the past few weeks regarding the forgetfulness that we have both been faced with recently. This can be something as simple as forgetting to do something at work, to completely losing a sense of direction while driving through my neighborhood (luckily this only happens for a few seconds ).
The best possible answer that I have come up with thus far has to do with the separation of the self and the brain. In our practices (especially something like self-inquiry), we are essentially turning off the auto-pilot in our brain and in doing so, there may be a temporary learning curve involved in accessing this information on our own. In this case, it would actually be a sign of progress.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 10:30:59 AM
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That's a very good question, Alvin. Unfortunately, I haven't taken an IQ test before and after my 20 years of meditation, so I can't say anything solid. However, my own subjective impression is that there has been an improvement. My work, which is quite challenging in this respect, has become easier, and I have the feeling it isn't just "experience" in the usual sense.
So, assuming this has happened (which I can't prove, or even be sure), I can speculate on some of the ingredients of the phenomenon. One is meditation producing the "very deep rest" of 'samadhi', and the gradual transition into the deeply-rested state of Yoga. The phrase 'deep rest' can be misleading in that it does not suggest a phenomenon that is as rich as the real one; the real "deep rest" is actually a very active (not passive) phenomenon physiologically; it means that the body/mind's repair and growth mechanisms are getting quite active; they are overcoming the 'stresses' and degenerative mechanisms on many levels.
Another ingredient is actual stimulation of the mind. You may have heard of the 'Flynn effect'; the IQ of the population in most parts of the world is slowly rising. It is not known why this is (improved diet?) but one possible contributing factor is just the greater inevitable mental stimulation: more choices, TV, radio, internet, tax forms, computers etc etc. One thing is for sure; this effect is extremely slow to manifest. However, my particular kind of work (software engineer) does produce this kind of stimulation regularly.
(Assuming the Flynn effect is due to exercise of the mind) it's possible that deliberate exercise of the mind could stimulate it and strengthen it further. But experience shows that it is very hard to shift the IQ from existing experience alone . However, suppose people are just not using the best (most effective) mind-exercises to produce this effect? I've thought about this, and devised some exercises that I feel has helped stimulate my mind and make it sharper. They have worked very well for me, I feel sure of that, but how effective would they be in general? I don't know. Perhaps they just fill specific gaps in my own mental strength, and people without those specific gaps would not benefit. Perhaps a background of yogic physiology is also required to make them work well.
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 10:52:38 AM
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David,
What are the exercises you've devised? These could be very useful tools for yogis. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 6:14:57 PM
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Hi Scott,
I'll write them up them. They might be useful for some, or else a good experiment. More in a few days.
-D |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 8:29:01 PM
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Thanks, David. I don't think IQ test is of much concern here, although it's a objective measurement. The traditional IQ test is so restrictive that it doesn't reflect the true mental ability of a person. A sense of humor or a taste for peotry, for example, is higher regarded as qualities of clever people, yet testing them objectively would be almost impossible. I do have a good performance in IQ tests, scoring above 150 and thus can be catagorized as genius. Yet I'm weak in other endeavors that I think my "overall intelligence" (resembling the concept of M.I. here) is quite normal. For example, I don't play well in Chinese Chess which I feel shame and can't figure out why.
More can be said about whether your improved performance is due to an actual increase in intelligence or experience. If it is due to experience, then only the routine job will be easier. The truly creative parts will not improve that much. Also, what about the mental endeavors other than your job? Those which you dropped many years ago and picked up again is the best indicator of whether your intelligence improved in these years.
You said that actual stimulation of the mind is the reason for the 'Flynn effect'. I think it is better be explained by a higher quality(rather than quantity) of stimulation available. This is possible with an overall better education, which allows in-depth and thoughtful knowledge to reach the general public.
The actual stimulation is not even nearly as important as the active participation/interpretation/analysis by the persons being stimulated. I propose that the higher amount of stimulation will be useful only if it is the type that will force the individual to analyze.
Secondly, the examinations nowadays at least gives some practice opportunities for the IQ test.
I have more to ask and share on this topic in the near future. |
Edited by - Alvin Chan on Nov 07 2006 8:52:40 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 09:28:50 AM
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Alvin said:
You said that actual stimulation of the mind is the reason for the 'Flynn effect'. I think it is better be explained by a higher quality(rather than quantity) of stimulation available. This is possible with an overall better education, which allows in-depth and thoughtful knowledge to reach the general public.
I'm only speculating on (possibly one of) the reason(s) for the Flynn effect, but yes, I agree with you entirely here. Mere "stimulation" means nothing. It's not just exercise, but the right kind of exercise, quality exercise. Just as working in a slave-galley is unlikely to help you much with ice-skating, while sun-salutation (a superb general-purpose physical exercise) is probably is going to help you a lot. And, by qood-quality stimulation, I did mean it to be participatory, not just passive.
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lorf
48 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 4:03:16 PM
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I have had the same effects as EMC describes for quite some time. Just as was pointed out it is just temporary. It comes for some time and then the brain will be up and running on full efficiency again. Based on my own experience I would call it "restructuring" rather than "purification". I think that when using powerful teqniques and being in a hurry to open up sometimes big chunks of old, stagnated energy, traumas and such dissolve in one go leaving an emty space in the energy body. When this has happened the whole system starts to rearrange itself to fill that empty place and obscuring the access to memories, words and even logical thinking. This is when it gets hard to express oneself in the world.
It seems like this is very individual, the majority seem not to have to cope with this kind of problems. And some get it really bad, as I did. An important factor could be that over the years I have been clearing some heavy stuff from the past.
I would say that when this happens, pretend to understand, be confident that the state will pass and trust spirit. In some miraculous way life seems to work just as fine also when the brain capacity is really low due to this restructuring.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 7:33:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lorf
I have had the same effects as EMC describes for quite some time. Just as was pointed out it is just temporary. It comes for some time and then the brain will be up and running on full efficiency again. Based on my own experience I would call it "restructuring" rather than "purification". I think that when using powerful teqniques and being in a hurry to open up sometimes big chunks of old, stagnated energy, traumas and such dissolve in one go leaving an emty space in the energy body. When this has happened the whole system starts to rearrange itself to fill that empty place and obscuring the access to memories, words and even logical thinking. This is when it gets hard to express oneself in the world.
It seems like this is very individual, the majority seem not to have to cope with this kind of problems. And some get it really bad, as I did. An important factor could be that over the years I have been clearing some heavy stuff from the past.
I would say that when this happens, pretend to understand, be confident that the state will pass and trust spirit. In some miraculous way life seems to work just as fine also when the brain capacity is really low due to this restructuring.
Welcome to the forum Lorf...
I went through this too for awhile.. I like the way you have explained it... "I would call it "restructuring" rather than "purification". I think that when using powerful teqniques and being in a hurry to open up sometimes big chunks of old, stagnated energy, traumas and such dissolve in one go leaving an emty space in the energy body. When this has happened the whole system starts to rearrange itself to fill that empty place and obscuring the access to memories, words and even logical thinking. This is when it gets hard to express oneself in the world."... "In some miraculous way life seems to work just as fine also when the brain capacity is really low due to this restructuring.".. like that.. Thanks for sharing. |
Edited by - Shanti on Nov 08 2006 7:35:45 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2006 : 8:40:12 PM
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| Good post Lorf! Welcome to the forum. |
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Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 11:37:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by comdyne
[ What's up with that???? Yoga practioners seem to make all sorts of mistakes with increasing practice. Input anyone???
Hi,
I am a lecturer .....for all modules I make mistakes..........by writing things like
prblem............it seems as though I cannot write as fast as I think.....and I skip letters
worst case i skip words.......
In addition ...if I am in training..........I get bored really fast especially if I figure out things sooner...
Yes I do make mistakes but then I am human only to err....
On the scientific plane I am definitely more intuitive.....
and hopefully more intelligent.........
i can tell if someone has an ailment.....who's talking about me at the moment ........find someone........communicate with the spirit
etc.......
so you see we are not perfect |
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ranger
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2006 : 12:30:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Alvin Chan
I don't think IQ test is of much concern here, although it's a objective measurement. The traditional IQ test is so restrictive that it doesn't reflect the true mental ability of a person.
Alvin raises the key question of this whole thread - what do we imagine intelligence to be? Odds are in our culture it's almost impossible to think of it apart from IQ.
One of the most brilliant people I've ever known, was a junior, and something of a mentor to me when I first went off to college. In high school, he had published two papers in professional mathematical journals, and he could also discuss the writings of Henry Miller and the poetry of Rimbaud with my little angst-ridden, lit-major self.
He died of a heroin overdose before the start of his senior year. Was he intelligent? Yes. Did it do him any good? More harm than good I would say. |
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Intelligence drop with yoga?????
