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flying fakir
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 1:08:56 PM
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Dear All,
Hello, I'm new to the forum and very excited to have discovered AYP. I'm a Sanskrit scholar and yoga practitioner. I have spent several years in India living with traditional hatha yogis and for my doctoral thesis I edited from 30 manuscripts the only Sanskrit text devoted solely to Khecari mudra, a work ascribed to Adinatha and called Khecarividya. It is to be published early next year in Routledge Curzon's Tantric Studies Series.
The text is about 300 verses long. There are two introductory chapters, one on the text itself and one on the practice and its history. There is also a translation of the text with detailed annotation. The introductions and notes draw on parallels in other Sanskrit and Hindi works as well as information gleaned from the yogis with whom I have lived in India.
It is very much a scholarly work; I do not draw on my own practice. I started practising khecari mudra twelve years ago when I started research on the text and reached stage 2 within a year or so. But when in England I felt very isolated in my practice and have not taken it very far. AYP has inspired me to progress with it.
There are so many aspects of Khecari that I have researched that I wouldn't know where to start discussing them, but I hope to be able to add colour to the discussions on the forum by presenting the views and insights of the Indian yogic tradition, both on practical and theoretical issues.
The first nugget I'd like to offer everyone is an idea on the origins of khecari mudra which came to me when doing my research. Analysis of tantric texts in which the forerunners of the practice can be found show that it originated in possession-based cults. The tongue can reach Khecari stage 2 as a symptom of altered states of consciousness which in turn can be precipitated through drugs, meditation, pranayama or possession. Perhaps khecari mudra as a yogic technique originated as an attempt to recreate the states of mind achieved during rites of possession.
Pranams to all,
Jim |
Edited by - n/a on Sep 22 2006 2:03:32 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 1:40:21 PM
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Hi Jim, welcome to the forum
I look forward to reading your research nuggets on kechari. I have read that modern saints spontaneously enter kechari as a result of intense samadhi. If I remember right there is reference to Ramakrishna and kechari events.
Peace, Alan |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 2:20:32 PM
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Analysis of tantric texts in which the forerunners of the practice can be found show that it originated in possession-based cults.
Oh boy are we handing it on a plate now to the fundamentalists who wish to demonize yoga! 
And yet, I'm not in the least surprised if the first texts in which we can find reference to Kechari Mudra concern tantra and spirit-possession.
BTW, we (especially those of us brought up or influenced by abrahamic traditions) must be careful not to impose inadvertently the connotations of our own language on their practices. A person brought up in the Christian tradition may lump 'spirit-possession' and 'demonic-possession' into one, whereas 'spirit-possession' may sometimes actually have more in common with a notion like 'channeling' than it does with 'demonic-possession'.
Welcome to the forum Jim, thanks for your post.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Sep 22 2006 6:00:42 PM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 2:39:28 PM
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Hi Jim:
Welcome aboard! It is always good to have a Sanskrit scholar in our midst to keep us honest. Of course, I know you are here for more than scholarship. Aren't we all? We are the nuts and bolts yoga folks here ... also sometimes referred to as "in the trenches."
Since one of the moderators split this off the original "Kechari Mudra" topic as a new topic (didn't know you were that important, did you?), I took the liberty of adding "scriptures and history" to the title to clarify the potential subject matter. Feel free to change it if it is not suitable. I assume you can, since you are the post on top. If not, let us know.
Looking forward very much to your perspectives on kechari mudra, and everything else yogic.
It is interesting how history delivers science to our door -- from ancient murky wanderings and scribblings, evolving over thousands of years to modern applied science. Of course, those who think the ancients knew more than we do now might take issue with that statement. So, apologies in advance for that.  We'd be nowhere without the ancients, that's for sure. But we don't have to change our culture and beliefs to reap the rewards of all the hard work that has gone before. All we have to do is adapt what is verifiably true in the recorded knowledge to our present circumstances, and voila! we've got interconnected spiritual openings happening all over the place. It is a joy to see...
The guru is in you.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 4:54:59 PM
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Welcome Jim.
Thank you for sharing you research with us... this will be interesting... |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2006 : 11:57:24 PM
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Fantastic, we appricitate any contributions to the growing base of knowledge. AYP is a great resource, coupled with the forums, most certainly helps to motivate someone to the next stage in their development.
Look forward to hearing more, soon! |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2008 : 12:23:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by flying fakir
Dear All,
The first nugget I'd like to offer everyone is an idea on the origins of khecari mudra which came to me when doing my research. Analysis of tantric texts in which the forerunners of the practice can be found show that it originated in possession-based cults. The tongue can reach Khecari stage 2 as a symptom of altered states of consciousness which in turn can be precipitated through drugs, meditation, pranayama or possession. Perhaps khecari mudra as a yogic technique originated as an attempt to recreate the states of mind achieved during rites of possession.
Pranams to all,
Jim
Hi Jim Mallinson,
Can you elaborate on what you refer to as "possession" and "possession-based cults"? Is the concept one of possession of the person involved by "spirits" or "demons" as this term is commonly used in general parlance.
thanks,
John C |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2008 : 2:28:18 PM
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Hi John:
You may want to write Jim directly with your question. He hasn't been around here for a while. It would be great if you could lure him back for an encore. See if you can get him to lower the price on his book too, so a few of us can afford it.
It stands to reason that kechari and other spiritual methods have evolved over the centuries from their roots in ancient cults and rites. It all had to start somewhere.
There is evidence that the ancient vedic tradition was rooted in shaman-style culture. For example, "soma," which we today understand to be a naturally occurring product of digestion related to the rise of ecstatic conductivity in the neurobiology, is clearly referred to in the vedas as an hallucinogenic plant. So we conveniently have turned it into a metaphor for our internal process. Why make excuses for what has been a gradual evolution of knowledge over time? The evolution continues. In fact, it is accelerating dramatically these days, thanks to the rise of the information age.
There is a tendency we have to think that our ancestors (who may well have been us!) knew more in the good old days than we do today. No doubt the vast spiritual knowledge that has been handed down to us is a treasure beyond all reckoning. However, I think it is much better to use recorded knowledge as a springboard rather than a destination. That is how science works, yes? If not, then it will be time to hand in our computers, cell phones, and ever-expanding real-time knowledge of applied spiritual practices.
We have seen the future, and it is happening now... 
The guru is in you.
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2008 : 3:01:06 PM
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Great post, yogani.
VIL |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2008 : 6:00:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by John C
Hi Yogani,
I tried to email Jim Mallinson as you suggested but it doesn't work when I click on "email" possibly because he has only made two posts thus far.
Hi John,
Not sure if you saw the post he wrote today in the other thread:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3891#33787
He may have missed this one.
Maybe you could post your question to him again in that thread? |
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flying fakir
United Kingdom
4 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2008 : 4:32:03 PM
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Hi John C et al,
Thanks, John, for prompting me on this - I'd have missed it otherwise. I'm afraid I don't have a great deal much more to offer but I'll expand on what I said as much as I can. I'm no expert on possession, but in answer to your question the possession sought in these cults is not by demons (which is to be avoided) but usually by benevolent goddesses. A lot of tantric practice involves emulating one's chosen deity to the extent that one becomes that deity. It is a big and complex subject and the early tantric possession-based cults are still somewhat obscure to scholars - a lot more work needs to be done. My old supervisor Alexis Sanderson (www.alexissanderson.com) is the expert on their texts and a recent book by Fred Smith (http://cup.columbia.edu/book/978-0-...lf-possessed) explores the phenomenon in its South Asian context. Of course yogic possession more famously goes the other way - the accomplished yogin can possess the bodies of others.
Here is a quote from my book (p.23) which follows translations from five tantric works describing techniques (kara.nas) similar to khecariimudraa (but not called as such) which are used to conquer death:
"As I have said above, these five passages describing techniques for the conquest of death are all from scriptures of possession-based Yoginii; cults or their Kaula derivatives. They contain the first references to practices in which the tongue enters the hollow
above the palate, so it seems likely that the technique has its roots in rites of possession. The tongue’s entry into the cavity above the palate has been reported to occur spontaneously as a result of altered mental states which themselves can be precipitated
by breathing practices and drugs. In the above passages the yogin is instructed to
put his tongue into the cavity; there is no suggestion of spontaneity. Thus these techniques may be attempts to recreate a state of possession."
In the texts of tantric "saivism there are many different types of khecariimudraa, and none of them involves placing the tongue above the palate. They are yogic in nature and often require the yogin to assume some bizarre physical attitudes in imitation of the mudraa-deities that he seeks to propitiate. In the introduction to his edition of the yoga section of the Maaliniivijayottara, my friend Somdev Vasudeva has said the following about these techniques (p.19):
"...these extreme Khecariimudraas are reflections, imprints or replications of the dynamism of consciousness (Khecarii). The corollary is... the direct experience of Khecarii, or to use different terminology the possession by the goddess Khecarii, manifests itself in the
practitioner with these bizarre symptoms."
The ha.thayogic khecariimudraa was a coalescence of the kara.nas described above and the tantric khecariimudraas
So, what I'm getting at, but a whole lot more research needs to be done, is that perhaps some yogic practices developed as attempts to recreate physical attitudes that accompany particular states of mind. When you really concentrate hard on something you hold your breath, so if you hold your breath it helps you to concentrate hard on something...when you are very excited/scared you "clench your butt", so if you clench your butt (muulabandha) it helps to raise your level of excitement...when the goddess Khecarii takes possession of you, your tongue slots into the space above your uvula so if you slot your tongue into the space above your uvula.....
Maybe there is a word for what I'm getting at. Synaesthesia is very close to it, but not quite there.
I'd be very interested to hear any comments on this from some of you yogic test pilots out there.
All the best,
Jim
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Edited by - flying fakir on May 19 2008 7:39:32 PM |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - May 22 2008 : 4:11:29 PM
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wow i must say, that's one hell of a post.
and speaking for myself in person i achieved ketchari in a very short while like a month and ten days and was doing talviya krya 1st for a month but when i started pushing the toungue i achieved ketchari in ten days.
and it's been about 2 months or so that i've reached ketchari and what facinates me is that i reached all the stages in that short while after reading that it tooks years to reach higher stages and to tell the truth it feels i've been there b4.
but most importantly relating to your topic, i must say ketchari was like a huge rocket launcher to my practices.
and concerning the push and mulabandha well yeah it's true they tend to become automatic and plus sometimes the roling of the toungue when it's up there when i 1st achieved ketchari.
but the amazing thing about ketchari is that nowadays i only need to close my eyes and i c a light and a huge vast space within plus that white screen that pops in front of me and then everything turns into white light ect.
plus a person goes through a lot of purifications concerning his third eye and wonderful visions do occur now and then.
but to say that i've been posessed or smthg like that well i don't think it happened.
again to be honest that's a great research and a very hard work; too bad i can't buy the book and all i can tell u is thk you from the bottom of my heart.
Namaste
Ananda |
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Kechari Mudra - Scriptures and History
