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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 18 2006 : 7:02:31 PM
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Here are two things to try during your day and outside of regular practice times. I find them to be spiritually expanding and very rewarding, maybe you will too?
Exercise 1- As you walk around and interact with people during your regular day, remind yourself or imagine that the person you are observing or talking to is really you but "over there". You might be just like them if you experienced their life from birth. Particularly if they act in a way you find hard to relate to, you can remind yourself that you might act the same way had you lived their life, had their circle of people around you, suffered the same abuses/ hardships etc. Use your imagination!
This second one might feel odd or "corny" at first and be a little tougher but is very rewarding!
Exercise 2- As you move through your day and see other people around you silently feel love for them. You can even say "I love you" inside your mind as they walk by (I might not recommend doing this aloud, but you never know! ) You can expand this past people as well, animals, your couch, a tree, the water etc. Fall in love with the world, you will probably leave it before it leaves you!
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2006 : 7:11:40 PM
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Hi Anthem,
Interestingly my guru does something similar. If someone bumps into her accidentally she will silently apologise in her mind as if it was her who had actually bumped into the other party. She often thinks ' sorry,I may have wronged you in another life'. I believe this is her way of making sure the ego doesn't creep in.
L&L
Dave |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2006 : 8:27:18 PM
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I will try them Andrew. The first one may be hard to do with my poor imagination, but the second one I can do. Actually I sort of do the second one already, at times.. but not with a conscious effort.. its more along the lines of saying thank you to people and things(never told anyone this before.. they would get confirmation that I was nuts  ). It started with nodding a thank you to the traffic light and stop sign.. every time I crossed one..(Hee hee hee).. and extended to almost everything. I have to try saying "I love you" to everything going forward..
Thanks. |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2006 : 11:23:30 PM
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Great stuff!
Now carry that further when that branch entangles you, that rock stubs your big toe and that dear fellow person ****s on you. You'll begin to mix even more which is which and who is who |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 18 2006 : 11:41:12 PM
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| i've done something quite similar to increase bhakti. Everytime something happens that you don't like, another driver cuts you off, a long traffic light when you're in a hurry etc., think of it as God reminding you to think of him/her instead of being obsessed with the material world. then say thank you to god for reminding you. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 04:02:23 AM
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Thanks Anthem, I really like these two exercises.
I would do the first one also, but more in association with people I have a problem with, in order to try and understand where they are coming from - hopefully the result being compassion.
I will try it as I meet people in general, it sound a facinating way to communicate with someone.
The second is also very dear to my heart. I would see it as bringing love from the outside in, to meet the love that comes from the inside out, coming from inner silence. I think one can nurture the other.
For me when I think negitively of someone and then consciously decide to love them instead, does change things. This coupled with inner silence is extremely powerful.
Have to try loving that traffic light that just turned red - and not see red |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 07:21:18 AM
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as long as you don't see green!
but love God behind the light, not the light. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 19 2006 : 10:05:15 AM
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Andrew said:
Particularly if they act in a way you find hard to relate to, you can remind yourself that you might act the same way had you lived their life, had their circle of people around you, suffered the same abuses/ hardships etc. Use your imagination!
Great exercise. If you dare, I also recommend inserting 'genes' into the list of influences on them which, if you were exposed to, would make you behave like them. We must learn to develop compassion for people who behave certain ways because their genes drive them strongly in that direction, even if our genes don't.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jul 19 2006 10:06:47 AM |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2006 : 04:34:44 AM
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I already do similar things. For example recently my ego overtook and I laughed at a person for a fault I perceived them to have.. then I woke up and asked myself "Do you think you can't be put in their place?" eg.. If I was born in their place.. just like you said.
The second one I do exactly as you say when I take my evening walks.. I say "I love you" when I first see someone. And when I don't see any people I just say "I love all as myself". Ofcourse it is very hard to keep concentrating on this as the avalanche of thoughts always overtake...
Wouldn't it be a great world if everyone walked around and said "I love you" to all others all the time? :) |
Edited by - Chiron on Jul 21 2006 05:30:44 AM |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2006 : 3:49:48 PM
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Chiron,
Yeah...It would be a great world if everyone walked around saying 'I love you' and meant it. It might become a greater world too if in samyama, all of our energy and focus of the sutras was directed to the entire earth and all its inhabitants... |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2006 : 8:55:12 PM
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Hi Anthem,
These look like toughies for me... if I must carry them out in letter and spirit. I'm quite comfortable scolding people, and myself without illwill. It'd be tough to go all lovey dovey when I'm itching to take a nip... which is often. Which, sigh  , means that I probably ought to attempt this. Because I'm pretty reluctant to. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2006 : 10:20:12 PM
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Hi Anthem,
Interesting that you have come up with these exercises, which I think are really great. I have found lately when I see other people or interact with them, that I also tend to think that in their particular situation, living conditions, history etc. it's perfectly natural that they do what they do, and that I would probably do the same. That view takes away the "I vs. them" consciousness and creates more understanding. |
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LittleDragon
29 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2006 : 11:51:52 PM
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| Exercise 2 (loving/kindness meditation) is probably one of the most effective things we can do to promote Peace in this world. I wish everyone would try it, it's something that can be done by those of us who have trouble developing enough inner silence to do it with Samyama. Thanks for posting them Anthem. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2006 : 11:23:51 AM
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| Many people seem to have a belief that if one has unconditional love he would do only kindly things to everyone no matter what they do to him. I disagree with this theory. In my opinion it is a deeper concept than that. Just like unconditional love exists without a cause, it exists without an effect also. What I mean is the only way a person with unconditional love is different from one without is not in the way they do things but what they feel inside. If I had unconditional love, and someone spat on my face, I would not tell him 'I love you', but instead I will hit him. Because I'm not a hermit living naked in a cave, but a member of the society and I have my part to act. I would not feel sorry for hitting him, but would not carry the anger to the next moment. My hitting him was for his wrong action and I completely understand with unconditional love that I cannot harm the soul of his which is infinite. This is where non-attachment/Vairagya comes into play. This is also the teaching of Bhagwat Gita. I believe that a person with unconditional love can kill if required by Duty (such as he is an army person) and still be free from karma. |
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LittleDragon
29 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 12:20:14 AM
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Maximus,
I think it is possible for actions to be karma free but I doubt if any of us have reached that point.
Why did you hit him? Because he spat in YOUR face? Isn't that just a reaction to an insult? Or because you were trying to teach him not to do that because someone else might shoot him for doing it? Was hitting him the best way to teach him that? Will hitting him change his behavior? Maybe ...... Maybe it will reinforce it.
I think unconditional love ALWAYS does the kindest thing, but that may include violence in some instances. |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 01:39:06 AM
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Depends what that army is fighting for. If that army is fighting for world-wide enlightenment, then yes, the reward is greater than the sin. But if that army is fighting just for the sake of material power and resources then there is no reward to counter-balance their sins.
If you hit someone after they spit in your face that means sometime in the future someone will hit you in the face. If someone spits in your face that means you have spat in someone's face before, maybe in this life or in previous lives. So if you return the aggression you will continue the cycle and not be free from Karma. |
Edited by - Chiron on Aug 01 2006 04:17:40 AM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 08:08:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
If you hit someone after they spit in your face that means sometime in the future someone will hit you in the face. If someone spits in your face that means you have spat in someone's face before, maybe in this life or in previous lives. So if you return the aggression you will continue the cycle and not be free from Karma.
I think this is simply superstitious. I'm viewing world like a playground. There are rules. It is a rule that nobody spits on my face. It someone does, they get a penalty. I just do my duty which is hitting him. I don't worry about the fruit of my action whether he will give me a bitter hit, whether he will change his behaviour etc. I just do my part in the game. Just like an executioner who hangs the criminal doesn't feel guilty, I don't feel guilty about it.
quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
Depends what that army is fighting for. If that army is fighting for world-wide enlightenment, then yes, the reward is greater than the sin. But if that army is fighting just for the sake of material power and resources then there is no reward to counter-balance their sins.
What you say is not as simple as it sounds. We all operate within our circle. What seems entirely selfless in one circle can be fully of selfish from a bigger circle. At the lowest level, a group of terrorists might be following 'values' and might even think they are selflessly sacrificing themselves for their ideals. (I don't have enough wisdom to comment whether they too can be free from karma at all) For the normal society, they are selfish and brutal. You might be working for a billiion dollar company day and night sincerely and selflessly. But your company might be causing environmental pollution which would be viewed as selfish from an environmental perspective. Patriots are selfless for their countrymen but they might be viewed as selfish when looked at the perspective of the entire human race. And so on. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 09:51:33 AM
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What you say is not as simple as it sounds. We all operate within our circle. What seems entirely selfless in one circle can be fully of selfish from a bigger circle.
Very true. And conscience is often eased when one defers to the bigger circle, even if the bigger circle is not behaving well. Which I suppose is a basic tribal-survival impulse.
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 10:43:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Chiron
If someone spits in your face that means you have spat in someone's face before, maybe in this life or in previous lives. So if you return the aggression you will continue the cycle and not be free from Karma.
I want to add more on this. I have already said that not every action begets karms. Moreover Karma law is not the only law that operates in the universe. There is also the law of Survival of the Fittest. Power struggles in the animal kingdom as well as human society follow this law. The victory/defeat in power struggles can't be fully explained with the law of karma. It is because successes and failures are fruits of action and we only have control over the action not on the fruit, scriptures advise people to maintain the same state of mind no matter success or failure.
There is also the law of death which even the fittest can't survive. If an earthquake occurs and kills a thousand people, you definitely cannot explain that law of karma has calculated based on sins of people who are all to die today and caused an earthquake. It is painful for most people to admit but "that's the way it is". In Mahabharata, when someone asked Yudhistra what was the biggest wonder on earth, he said 'People see death all around but forgets that one day he also has to meet the same fate'. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2006 : 2:17:55 PM
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If an earthquake occurs and kills a thousand people, you definitely cannot explain that law of karma has calculated based on sins of people who are all to die today and caused an earthquake.
I can't agree, and I don't see the logic. First, though, let me say that as a scientist, I can't point to any evidence about there being any law of karma at all, and certainly can't explain any possible mechanism. However, as a yogi, I can work with the hypothesis that there is such a phenomenon.
If 'the law of karma' is real, and negative effects can come to one person due to past 'sins', I don't see what seems impossible, or even odd, about negative effects coming to a large number of people at the same time due to past sins. Regarding the 'causing' of the earthquake, well, the earthquake presents no special issues for explaining in karmic terms. If the karmic law is real, the causal web in which it operates is extremely complex; and if you think in terms of people's past sins moving the tectonic plates, maybe you'll reach an explanation that sounds implausible mechanically; but if you think of people's past sins putting them in the wrong place at the wrong time, it's more plausible.
And so it is with any phenomenon involving 'the law of karma'.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 01 2006 4:56:04 PM |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2006 : 07:34:45 AM
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Why should tragic death come due to 'sin' only (and hence decided by law of karma)? It could come even if you have no sin baggage if you fail to be fit enough to face a tough situation. Is it your mistake if I shoot you? What if I'm an insane person, then I don't even get karma by killing you. I'm like a calamity of nature here. It is your call to play your battle of survival. And if you fail to overcome me, you die no matter how 'pure' you are. You see, you will relaize this becomes a battle of survival, not a game that goes by law of karma. I'm not saying you can't escape me, but your escaping requires action from your part and even your good karmas can't save you if you are not fit enough for them to operate through.
Also the very consideration of karma comes into picture only when you view tragic death as a 'punishment'. But considering the sheer violent nature of volcanos, hurricanes, tsunamis, earthquakes, big cometets, terrorist organizations it appears that death just 'happens' not necessarily as a punishment decided by law of karma. It is decided by law of Survival of Fittest. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2006 : 09:53:12 AM
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Keep in mind that I am defending something here that I am not committed to believing. But I'll have a go at defending it anyway.
Why should tragic death come due to 'sin' only (and hence decided by law of karma)? It could come even if you have no sin baggage if you fail to be fit enough to face a tough situation. Is it your mistake if I shoot you?
The answer to the last question you asked is crucial. The answer is simply, from the point of view of the teaching of karma, 'probably yes'. Though your mistake could have occurred in a past life.
Did you get the point I made about karma putting you in bad situations?
BTW, I personally don't mind doing self-defense. I don't agree with pacifist absolutists. And there are those who say, self-defense is acceptable karmically. It's certainly all very complex -- if it is true. 
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2006 : 03:43:07 AM
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Looks like the Law of Karma doesn't take into account, 'justice delayed is justice denied'. It is one of the most difficult laws to come to terms with.
But I've come across this about the action-reaction phenomena, and the time taken for the reaction, or the magnitude of the reaction depends on the seed sown and the kind of soil. The kind of karma has it's own gestation period, like a mustard seed versus a coconut seed.
And the soil metaphor is the being. A being vibrating at a higher frequency is very fertile soil... the effect of the karma sown by such a being bears results much faster than one vibrating at a grosser frequency. The latter is not conducive for quick germination.
Whether that is fair or not is another question which would lead to another... what makes a being grosser, or subtler... karmas? What makes a being do karmas of a sort... the frequency? The egg, or the bird?
But this is all, I suppose, as Yogani would say, under the hood. Though someone has to become the manufacturers and mechanics if everyone has to keep driving. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2006 : 11:29:38 AM
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quote:
Sadhak said:
And the soil metaphor is the being. A being vibrating at a higher frequency is very fertile soil... the effect of the karma sown by such a being bears results much faster than one vibrating at a grosser frequency. The latter is not conducive for quick germination.
I was speaking to someone about this recently and their comment was that they seemed to have less of a choice about how to live their life. It is like the more you get into this stuff the more you are obliged to "do the right thing". The consequences are too immediate and too upsetting if you don't.
Personally I feel this is probably true. The more aware we become and the further we develop our practice the higher the stakes.
I'm going through a small rough patch at the moment and it had occured to me that rather being a self pacing issue it might mean that I have to get my act together in how I am living my life, as in how honest I am, my diet, the clutter in my office etc.
Way off thread here, but would welcome some feedback. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2006 : 12:09:41 PM
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Hi Louis,
I agree, the further we go along the more it "hurts" or doesn't feel good to be out of alignment with the "flow of life". The moments where we are out of alignment become more noticeable and it also becomes easier to correct the thoughts that are leading us to be out of alignment.
I also have observed the further we go along the more freedom we have to act in ways we may not have been prepared to in the past. I observe myself being more free with who I am and what I am about.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2006 : 1:46:19 PM
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Louis said:
I'm going through a small rough patch at the moment and it had occured to me that rather being a self pacing issue it might mean that I have to get my act together in how I am living my life, as in how honest I am, my diet, the clutter in my office etc.
In my time I have definitely made the mistake at times of relying too much on practices for correcting imbalances, or on practice-based interpretations of imbalances, when they would have been better approached or fixed by more conventional, non-yoga means. So it's definitely a mistake that can be made.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Aug 04 2006 1:47:35 PM |
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Two exercises to try outside of practices
