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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 10:24:07 PM
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Howdy & NamaskaraH Fellow AYPers,
I came across the quote below (in my sig. file), a couple of days ago, while re-reading Play of Consciousness by Swami Muktananda.
Usually, the only people I know who "get" the yogic power of kirtan as an Advanced Yogic Practice are some of the "names" of the Western Kirtan movement -- i.e. Krishna Das, Girish, Wah!, Donna Delory, Dave Stringer, Jaya Lakshmi, Jai Uttal, Bhagavan Das, Etc. ---- but its power isn't exactly a secret.
Several major gurus have cited chanting (Kirtans and Bhajans) as the most effective single yogic practice available in the Kali Yuga (and I'm not saying I agree with that statement --- but it is *VERY* effective - amazingly so -- I've gained more in slightly over a year of dedicated Kirtanasadhana than I did - LITERALLY - in over ten years of other spiritual practices - COMBINED (no kidding, no exaggeration).
And no, I don't think a person can "walk in off the street" and have that happen -- though "Bhakti Willing"  per the AYP Lessons covering bhakti -- "ya never know".
I did build a reasonably (realizing that it's all relative, of course) strong foundation of various yogic practices including daily meditation, tantric sexual practices, jnana-related practices (i.e. study), shaktipaatasatsanga (bhakti infusion via hanging out with the Self-Realized -- Adyashanti most specifically and most often - www.adyashanti.org , if interested).
However, feeling drawn to - and adopting -- a daily kirtan practice - over the last year or so, has been like trading my 28.8K modem for a cable modem, or trading my skateboard for a Ferrari, or trading my aging Aardvark for a .... well, you get the idea!
Even the widely respected mid-20th century sage Paramhansa Yogananda said, "Chanting is half the battle".
Half is a LOT, when enlightenment / self-realization / God-realization is the topic!
The history, practice and power of Nama Sankirtana ("Ever-expressing the Name" -- i.e. "In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God") runs pretty deep -- as do its neuroendrocinological benefits.
(The vibrations of the Sanskrit mantras / "Names of God" have very specific energetic effects, as do the dynamic tongue positions, the breathing, the Bhakti, etc. -- it's basically a "super-practice" -- and one that can be quite a bit of fun!)
Anyone who thinks of Kirtan as an archaic practice involving serious, Indian guys in long robes, solemnly reciting the Vedas to a bit of a beat -- have never rocked out with a thousand people grooving their collective butts off to "Om Namah Shivaya" at one of Krishna Das's sold out, packed house, Siddhasana-room-only events (and if you'd like to see what I'm talking about, drop a few bucks on a new or used copy of "The Greatest Hits of the Kali Yuga", which contains a very cool / very inspirational DVD.)
And they've most certainly never kicked-in the mega-bliss by doing the Hanuman Chalisa (#1 track in Rishikesh for four decades in a row, during the 16th century ....) while bopping to a glorious little Hip-Hop track called "Hanuman", courtesy of Girish (see www.spiritvoyage.com - Girish is on tour NOW! )
And, I would doubt that "said practitioners" have had the experience of heart-banging in bhav-pit with ear-to-ear grinning, sweat-laden, love-fueled kirtanistas at a PLO (Pagan Love Orchestra - led by head-pagan Jai Uttal) event.
And would really, really REALLY doubt that they've had the .... experience .... of Bhagavan Das's NOW (co-produced by Mike D. of the Beastie Boys) ---- can anything really be THAT cool, THAT much FUN, that Sacred, sound THAT good AND be that yogically powerful??
Indeed it can.
I would say "you get the idea" --- but if you haven't heard that music AND chanted along ........ you don't (get the idea).
Yet.
(And it's not all about "this music can be cool / modern and/or funky as well as yogically powerful" -- but that aspect CAN make it a lot of fun -- and many people *don't* know that Western Kirtan exists, or that it's as big as it is, or sounds as good as it does).
And if you're the type of person who prefers your kirtan a bit more private and mellow --- there's always the unspeakably beautiful / sacred / calming choice of Jaya Bhagavan by Tina Malia & Shimshai ... or anything by Wah!
Or, if you're *really* traditional --- there are many tens of thousands of authentic Indian kirtans and bhajans available, as well.
In my experience, the Westernization of the musical style does not diminish the yogic power even the tiniest bit.
In terms of personal experience, the only things that come *close* to Kirtan, in terms of the life enhancement, power and amazing spiritual / yogic benefits which I enjoy, would be: meditation itself, pranayama (i.e. spinal breathing and related practices), kechari mudra, and direct cultivation / enhancement of bhakti.
So, I'd like to unofficially open "Kirtanasatsanga" (Kirtan-related discussion / gathering here on the AYP forums) -- and invite any and all comments, questions, tips, dialog, etc. etc. etc. --- and find out where everyone else is, with respect to the power of Namasankirtana!
Jayayam!
(Celebrating the Awe-Inspiring Victory of THIS!)
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
"Brahmabhuuta hote kaya cha kirtani" - Tukaram
"Through repeating God's name, the body becomes divine."
[as quoted in Play of Consciousness, by Swami Muktananda]
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2006 : 11:03:47 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
And I doubt if you have had the pleasure and experience of guruji's Bhrama Nada(Divine Sound) which is absolutely awesome to listen to either during daily life or meditation.http://cdbaby.com/cd/omdasji
to hear a sample.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2006 : 1:38:29 PM
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I'm way way way outside my range of knowledge, so take this for the naive comment it is, but I'd be concerned about compounding interaction between chanting and the "I Am" mantra.
I know there's a vast historical tradition of doing both kirtan AND mantra in yoga. But then there's also a vast tradition of doing japa (24/7 mantra), yet I find that more than 20-30 mins of mantra meditation AYP-style makes me pretty fried. So there's something essentially different with the AYP style (and the traditions from which it stems). And that "something different" is what makes me worried about combining with chanting.
There's a rhythm and circularity to chanting that seems part of a more overarching human function (musical trance, drumming, the infantile suckling David mentioned a while ago, etc). I get that effect from "I Am". So, again, I'm worried that adding on chanting might be overdoing.
But if it works for you, great! Listen, I do 90 mins of asana. Yogani specifically says that's overdoing....but I built up to it slowly over many years. So maybe that's the case here? |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2006 : 9:42:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I'd be concerned about compounding interaction between chanting and the "I Am" mantra.
I do 90 mins of asana. Yogani specifically says that's overdoing....but I built up to it slowly over many years. So maybe that's the case here?
Hi Jim & your K,
D'accord. I'd be really concerned, too, about adding anythingto what I'm doing after my limited but forceful experience with 'I Am'. I'm very very curious about the mechanics, and a little slow on the uptake, but I'll yet figure out why this is the way it is.
But tell me, did you ever try cutting back on the 90 mins for any length of time to observe any difference? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 12:17:06 AM
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I believe Yogani's attitude is that asana is "modular". Like tai chi, it's something that doesn't directly affect or interact in any worrisome way; it's just sort of a nice corollary thing to do. That said, you can overdo in any activity. And I have seen asana practitioners work themselves into a startling froth by doing way too much (especially with backbends, which can create a sort of mania if you're not careful).
I've been doing asana work for over 20 years. My practice is nicely balanced, and I'm very used to it. It doesn't get me all worked up, it's the very definition of smooth. So while I would never EVER suggest that beginners or even intermediates practice 90 mins/day (or even work up to it), from my current position, I know I'm fine with it. Again, I'd urge newcomers to asana to exercise caution.
And if I had a strong chanting practice, maybe I'd be more assured regarding its integration with AYP. But I don't. And while I don't doubt a word said in this thread in praise of chanting, I'll stick with regular old AYP, 'cuz it's working just great with me. Hey, different strokes... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 12 2006 12:18:40 AM |
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elldibor
20 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 02:00:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I'm way way way outside my range of knowledge, so take this for the naive comment it is, but I'd be concerned about compounding interaction between chanting and the "I Am" mantra.
I know there's a vast historical tradition of doing both kirtan AND mantra in yoga. But then there's also a vast tradition of doing japa (24/7 mantra), yet I find that more than 20-30 mins of mantra meditation AYP-style makes me pretty fried. So there's something essentially different with the AYP style (and the traditions from which it stems). And that "something different" is what makes me worried about combining with chanting.
There's a rhythm and circularity to chanting that seems part of a more overarching human function (musical trance, drumming, the infantile suckling David mentioned a while ago, etc). I get that effect from "I Am". So, again, I'm worried that adding on chanting might be overdoing.
But if it works for you, great! Listen, I do 90 mins of asana. Yogani specifically says that's overdoing....but I built up to it slowly over many years. So maybe that's the case here?
Hi Jim,
This is to confirm as true what your intuition tells you.
I have a lot of expereinces with listening mantras and other sounds/beats and i can confirm that the effect can be profound in terms of generating both overpurification and spiritual advancement.
I would not recommend jumping into extended mantra/sound practices for anyone who is not able to check him/her self and his/her own ego, since there is a great danger of overdoing. Grounding skills are of very important. It is not by chance, that in the tantric tradition they say the Goddess is the Mantra. And Goddess(goddess=creative part of our consciousness) can be everything... both gentle&loving and cruel ... and often both at the same time ...
Elldibor
'Dare to know' |
Edited by - elldibor on Jul 12 2006 05:03:40 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 03:04:43 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
I believe Yogani's attitude is that asana is "modular". Like tai chi, it's something that doesn't directly affect or interact in any worrisome way; it's just sort of a nice corollary thing to do.
This is sort of how I see / experience Kirtan -- but please note: I am not specifically evangelizing kirtan in terms of "you should do this" [that's a decision we each must make on our own / in conjunction with our Inner-Outer Guru[s], of course].
I was just kind of "sharing the bliss" ---- mostly because almost all of us love music, and many of us involved in spiritual practice enjoy uplifting, energy-raising music ---- and many people have no clue that music that is 100% appealing to those of us who grew up with Rock & Roll and Top 40 radio, yet also has as much divine energy as any music ever created (give or take a Savikalpa Samadhi-level or two, depending upon the invidiual song/chant ), is so readily available.
If nothing else (i.e. if chanting is something that doesn't feel right, for whatever reason) - you may find that music by some of the artists mentioned in my first post is simply an enjoyable alternative to whatever else you listen to for fun / pleasure.
Part of my reason for sharing the info, though, is that I'd always heard about the "energetic power" of Sanskrit, and of chanting -- and for me, the combination has been nothing short of ..... well, heavenly [combined with yer good ol' "staggeringly profound and powerful", as well ...]).
And, combined with the fact that for me, Kirtan is analogous to finding an activity you love (i.e. tennis, dancing, etc.) -- and after a fews months, you notice -- "Hey, not only is this _fun_ -- I'm actually getting in good shape .... wow .... cool!"
So, it's been awesome on that level, as well.
And, to be perfectly candid, it didn't occur to me in ANY way that chanting could be a possible conflict with AYP sitting practices --- I'd be very interested in Yogani's comments on that (not in the sense that he's the authority --- I'd just literally be interested to hear what he thinks about this.)
I believe I've seen reference in an AYP Lesson (one of the Bhakti ones) that certain ancillary practices like chanting can be integrated with AYP, as one feels moved to do ..... but I *may* be mis-remembering.
Thanks for your comments, everyone.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
"Brahmabhuuta hote kaya cha kirtani" - Tukaram
"Through repeating God's name, the body becomes divine."
[as quoted in Play of Consciousness, by Swami Muktananda]
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 03:08:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Hi Kirtanman,
And I doubt if you have had the pleasure and experience of guruji's Bhrama Nada(Divine Sound) which is absolutely awesome to listen to either during daily life or meditation.http://cdbaby.com/cd/omdasji
to hear a sample.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
You are very, very right about that ..... and I very sincerely appreciate the tip / link .... I'm always "in the market" for more in the way of sacred sound, especially if chanted by someone who is realized (there seems to be kind of an "audio shaktipaat" dynamic, in my experience) -- and will look forward to checking this out, very soon.
Thanks!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
"Brahmabhuuta hote kaya cha kirtani" - Tukaram
"Through repeating God's name, the body becomes divine."
[as quoted in Play of Consciousness, by Swami Muktananda]
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 09:33:49 AM
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Hi Kirtanman:
There are no taboo practices in or in relation to AYP. It is simply a matter of the practical aspects of managing the cause and effect of practices in our lives. Yoga is a process of purification and opening, and that is what we each are obliged to manage prudently to sustain steady, safe progress over the long term. This applies to the level of intensity of our bhakti, as well as all other practices. The more advanced we become, at least through the late intermediate stages of unfoldment, the more critical self-pacing will be.
It is what we do over the long term that will make the difference, not so much the glories of the moment, though we can certainly enjoy them. 
Carry on!
The guru is in you.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 11:29:58 AM
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| Yogani, thanks for chiming in. No one here is saying kirtan ought to be taboo (certainly not me). My question is how likely kirtan is to interact with AYP mantra meditation. If it is, then I'm guessing it's something that ought (if anyone's so inclined) to be added by AYP practioners only VERY slowly and cautiously (as opposed to things like asana, tai chi, or volleyball, which don't closely interact with AYP mantra meditation). I'd love to know more. I've never chanted in my life (except at sporting events), so I honestly don't really know what I'm talking about on this. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 12 2006 11:31:17 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2006 : 4:18:48 PM
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"Chanting has its own benefits, and is wonderful, especially in groups."
-- Yogani, AYP Lesson 59 - "Some Mantra Particulars"
Hopefully, this (and/or review of Lesson 59 -- would post link, but time is less than illusory for me right now, per need to return to office from lunch ... ), as well as Yogani's comments in this thread will help clear up any concerns re: kirtan as it relates to mantra and meditation.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
"Brahmabhuuta hote kaya cha kirtani" - Tukaram
"Through repeating God's name, the body becomes divine."
[as quoted in Play of Consciousness, by Swami Muktananda]
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2006 : 10:37:00 AM
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Hi Kirtanman,
The following link gives good info on the effects of mantra, either chanting, reading, chanting inwardly or listening. The effects are shown and well worth reading.http://www.awgp.org/english/books/b...english.html
Look at the 'Eternity of sound and the science of mantras'
L&L
Dave |
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2006 : 3:43:11 PM
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hi Jim,
"So, again, I'm worried that adding on chanting might be overdoing."
One thing good about chanting japa or kirtan is that it does not "overdo" because of the fact that if one does not have the base of bhakthi for that particular japa or kirtan it just goes dry, having any effect at all of that japa or kirtan, you just dont feel like doing it. It certainly does not have any negative effect. It is just like watching a program in TV that does not interest you and you either change the channel or switch it off and you hardly remember that program.
on the other hand, if the bhakthi towards a chosen idol or japa or kirtan is profound you are naturally drawn towards it and the effect of it is awesome, it can have more impact on your neurobiological system than doing regular AYP practices but the only problem is, it is not sustained and you cannot measure the depth of that impact. it is like a huge wave rising and falling to be seen no where after it has fallen. also it affects our daily way of life, like you go out for shopping and suddenly you hear a kirtan playing somewhere and you are drawn towards it, you will forget your very purpose of shopping and thus it distracts you away from a normal routine lifestyle.
certainly, kirtan does not overdo with any other practices, normal yoga practices, unless you have a strong base of bhakthi. even with strong base of bhakthi it only enhances the effect, does not overdo it, i.e., it does not have any negative impact on our neurobiological system. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2006 : 4:10:03 PM
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I think this is right. Kirtan, especially if done in a group, and especially with dancing of some kind, is more on the extroversion side, more like 'going out in the world' and is in fact a great way to sop up and smooth out energies that have arisen as a result of meditation.
In other words it's on the opposite side of the balance to meditation.
I've always loved it, and could have used more of it, but it hasn't usually been available around me.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 16 2006 : 4:19:29 PM
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Hi Satyan,
Now, that is the best explanation of the effects of bhajans and kirtans I have heard..
My thoughts exactly.. just could not find the right words to put my thoughts into...
Thank You. |
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - Jul 17 2006 : 09:00:04 AM
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hi shanthi,
Thanks for the compliments.
Welcome.
Satyan |
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Neesha
215 Posts |
Posted - Oct 08 2006 : 7:51:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Hi Satyan,
Now, that is the best explanation of the effects of bhajans and kirtans I have heard..
My thoughts exactly.. just could not find the right words to put my thoughts into...
Thank You.
Hi Satyan,
I am the result of kirtan. One minute after the start of these songs...los of things started happening.I support your views by 1000%
Namaste |
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Kirtanananda - The Joy of Kirtan
