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billeejak
20 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 4:53:01 PM
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Hi,
This is my first real post here and I have a few questions that I would like to pose. Perhaps this post is related to Meg's post below.
First of all I notice that "God" is not talked about much here if at all...even in general terms. I wonder why. It's evident that the focus seems to be on the point that so called "enlightenment" IS or is closely dependent on a neuro-biological process and its subsequent biological state that can be brought about by psycho-physical exercises. I am not disputing such techniques at all but the stressing of this point makes one wonder. In the context of AYP teachings, what does "enlightenment" mean? What value for the soul does it provide when that biological "state" is reached? In other words, how do body related techniques relate to and affect the soul and the "after-life" if enlightenment is only a biologically based phenomenon? Lastly, as if I haven't asked too much already...Why is "God" and "God-Realization" not spoken of here? It could seem, by the lack of mentioning "God" (not in the topic index) that "Self-Realization/Enlightenment" and "God-Realization" might be two different animals and if so, how do they relate in light of AYP teachings? I ask this because, IF they are different, and if given the choice to find my true essential nature or realize and unite with God in a type of theosis (again perhaps it's the same thing), I would choose the latter. Is "God" just too divisive a term? Does "God" exist in AYP? I would love all your thoughts and hope that Yogani can weigh in on this as well. Thank you. |
Edited by - AYPforum on Feb 04 2007 12:19:44 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 5:16:11 PM
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Welcome, billeejak. I may use terms that are less than scientific or theological, but when I speak of enlightenment, I refer to oneness with God. Self-realization = God realization. Others will elaborate I'm sure, but that's the essence of what I mean.
>> "if given the choice to find my true essential nature or realize and unite with God in a type of theosis (again perhaps it's the same thing), I would choose the latter."
yes, I understand them to be the same thing. I think the term 'God' is given wide berth here at AYP because it's too specific for most people, and tends to carry negative connotations* But there are no rules, and I'm perfectly comfortable using the term, as long as we agree that we have no idea what we're talking about when we use it.
* all opinions expressed here are those of the writer and are not necessarily backed by AYP. :) |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 5:26:04 PM
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Meg wrote
quote
yes, I understand them to be the same thing. I think the term 'God' is given wide berth here at AYP because it's too specific for most people, and tends to carry negative connotations* But there are no rules, and I'm perfectly comfortable using the term, as long as we agree that we have no idea what we're talking about when we use it.
quote
Actually if we are not enlightened we should agree that we have no idea what we are talking of no matter wjhat terms we use.By changing the word enlightenment to God does not change the process.I think this is the main difference between AYP and 'traditional' schools.AYP tends to talk of the scientific way to reach enlightenment whereas 'traditional' tend to talk only of reaching God.Of course this is my opinion and experience and in no way means that either way is correct over the other.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes'
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 6:01:12 PM
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Hi Billeejak,
Welcome to the discussions!
First:
Yes, Meg makes a great point that all the viewpoints here are not that neccessarily of AYP - Yogani's writings.
With regards to the forum, it's a kinda "take what works, leave the rest" philosophy:-)
For me, this is ALL about God (as I understand Her/Him).
I think we don't talk too much about God - because - at least in my opinion - it's pretty much obvious that that's what we are all after - that Divine surrender and illumination of being at one with God.
There may be a few people here that disagree with me and that is totally lovely. They may be after something different...
IMO, AYP is a forum that really is a great support system for those of us who are doing these yogic practices and may not have other places to talk about them or may just want another avenue of thought brought into their mix.
Glad that you are here,
Love and light,
Babaly |
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yogani
USA
5240 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 6:15:43 PM
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Hi Billeejak, and welcome aboard!
You are getting good answers already, and I'm sure you will get more.
Check the AYP site search for the word "God" on the three sites and you will come up with about 60 lessons and 200 forum pages.
Shhh, don't tell anyone. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 6:23:00 PM
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Dave,
quote:
Actually if we are not enlightened we should agree that we have no idea what we are talking of no matter what terms we use.
Amen!
-Scott |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2006 : 11:53:44 PM
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quote:
What value for the soul does it provide when that biological "state" is reached? In other words, how do body related techniques relate to and affect the soul and the "after-life" if enlightenment is only a biologically based phenomenon?
Hi billejak,
The biological change doesnt strictly mean something physical in our body. By the term "biological" AYP means a change in our nervous system and as you must be knowing our subtle nervous system spans beyond our physical body. The main spinal nerve isn't limited just between perinieum/root and third eye. It goes much beyond the third eye and purifying our nervous system isnt something physical and definitely not something that's restricted to this life.
Purifying our nervous system so that it becomes a better conductor of divine energy/love is precisely the process that AYP specifies. God or some higher power is definitely involved there.
-Near |
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Alvin Chan
Hong Kong
407 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 12:38:09 AM
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Not everyone need the notion of God. I don't. The notion of God is vaguer than the term "enlightenment". For me the neuro-biological process makes much more sense.
Certainly God-realization or self-realization, whatever they mean, is related to our body. Not convinced? Try to find someone who you think has realized God. Imagine hitting him/her hard on his/her head. Not hard enough to kill, though. Do you think that guy will still behave the same way? The guy may now hardly be any different from a crazy stupid person. Where is the God-realization?
Sound too violent? Not to ask you to really do that. But think about it. |
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 05:08:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by billeejak
Hi,
What value for the soul does it provide when that biological "state" is reached? In other words, how do body related techniques relate to and affect the soul and the "after-life" if enlightenment is only a biologically based phenomenon?
hi billeejak,
Welcome to the forum.
for the quoute above,
Soul is not affected by anything, emotional, physical, neurobiological, biological, or anything. It is just a witness to the whole process. The actual process of enlightenment is the dissolving of your ego and identifying yourself with the soul. The lessons in AYP are the steps to reach that goal. In fact, very practical steps with reasoning explained in every step. The term "God" has a wide meaning and in fact cannot be defined. So it is termed specifically as "enlightenment".
As always in the words of Yogani it is always "The guru is in you."
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 1:36:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by satyan
Soul is not affected by anything, emotional, physical, neurobiological, biological, or anything. It is just a witness to the whole process. The actual process of enlightenment is the dissolving of your ego and identifying yourself with the soul. The lessons in AYP are the steps to reach that goal. In fact, very practical steps with reasoning explained in every step. The term "God" has a wide meaning and in fact cannot be defined. So it is termed specifically as "enlightenment".
Thanks for that, satyan. I printed a copy. :) |
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billeejak
20 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2006 : 2:02:05 PM
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Thank you everyone for your responses. After a search, sure enough Yogani is right and there are more references to God here than I first realized 
Though having practiced a form of Kriya Yoga for some time, I wanted to look at the questions posed from the AYP perspective so thank you all very much for helping me with that! |
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satyan
34 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2006 : 05:45:03 AM
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| Welcome Meg |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2006 : 5:18:24 PM
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If you read a few of the lessons, there is an atheist who asks something like if he is welcome to do the practices. Especially today with the political fever running high with "right and wrong" and "family values" and whose holy book is real etc., there are quite a few people who are completely turned off by the mention of God. It's just a word, and turns many people away who have been exposed to limiting definitions of that word.
We have a neurological/energetic connection to the whole universe that is unused in most people, but can be rejuvenated and energized and will make our perception of the universe much truer, and essentially eliminate the problems inherent in words. So that's my understanding of what we're doing here. It's sort of beside-the-point whether you call it God. |
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billeejak
20 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 4:24:21 PM
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Hi Etherfish,
Thank you for the input. That's a great point though the flip side to that is there may be just as many that might be initially turned off by intentionally sidestepping such a meaningful term for them and making it a different but nonetheless still abstract term. Those of a Bhakti bent especially. If God were just a word like every other, neither those for or against it's use should have a problem. However, it may be in fact the most "loaded" word of all time as you also imply. In either event, I understand your point and don't mean to sound like I don't agree. Such techniques work regardless of belief it would appear and to get lost in the superfluous details is not of much value. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jul 21 2006 : 07:06:28 AM
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Etherfish you said
"We have a neurological/energetic connection to the whole universe that is unused in most people, but can be rejuvenated and energized and will make our perception of the universe much truer".
Since you are talking about the connection with the universe, do you think that paranormal abilities such as knowing the future,telepathy etc can be attained with yoga. I know you didn't mean these abilities, but do you think these can come as side effects of yoga? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 23 2006 : 11:26:23 PM
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| Yes I do think those things come as a side effect. Don't pay much attention to them however or it will slow you down or sidetrack you from your path. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2007 : 12:19:44 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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God, Enlightenment...and After
