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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 22 2012 : 6:45:40 PM
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| What I mean is, if I believe what all these other people believe, you get caught up in emotional turmoil, and who is right and wrong, and needing to do something about it. I'm not interested in that. I don't want it to touch me in the sense that I don't want to care. I want to watch the movie, and if someone interrupts my movie, and says "Let's go do something else", I can walk out in the middle without feeling any loss. |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 02:12:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
What I mean is, if I believe what all these other people believe, you get caught up in emotional turmoil, and who is right and wrong, and needing to do something about it. I'm not interested in that. I don't want it to touch me in the sense that I don't want to care. I want to watch the movie, and if someone interrupts my movie, and says "Let's go do something else", I can walk out in the middle without feeling any loss.
Once again you've touched an issue that takes my attention from time to time in some spiritual people
What is with the not caring part?does equanimity make one not care?
I've observed some & they do feel like robots.no compassion,no caring...
If spirituality is loosing our human side... the Love & care to one another then I'd rather be non-spiritual human
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 02:20:45 AM
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But of course I don't believe that practices do that
I've become like a magnet...especially to children & animals.for the third time during these last two weeks,I've been followed by cats in the street...just want to stick their bodies as much as they can to my feet...with the funny sound that comes from their bodies...such a scenario that people start laughing in the street. I've always been caring but I became more caring... even for plants and trees too but now I treat them with the same love I treat babies 
Sorry I don't believe in the non-caring part |
Edited by - Namath on Jun 23 2012 02:40:01 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 04:14:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
What I mean is, if I believe what all these other people believe, you get caught up in emotional turmoil, and who is right and wrong, and needing to do something about it. I'm not interested in that. I don't want it to touch me in the sense that I don't want to care. I want to watch the movie, and if someone interrupts my movie, and says "Let's go do something else", I can walk out in the middle without feeling any loss.
Once again you've touched an issue that takes my attention from time to time in some spiritual people
What is with the not caring part?does equanimity make one not care?
I've observed some & they do feel like robots.no compassion,no caring...
If spirituality is loosing our human side... the Love & care to one another then I'd rather be non-spiritual human
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
It's a phase, it passes but it can't be bypassed. It's dispassion, observing but unaffected. Without that stage emotions and events would attach. There needs to be a space, not so much a wall, but a intangible gap. After that you can enjoy the whole full colour, fully emotional, fully interactive world without disturbance. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 04:16:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
What I mean is, if I believe what all these other people believe, you get caught up in emotional turmoil, and who is right and wrong, and needing to do something about it. I'm not interested in that. I don't want it to touch me in the sense that I don't want to care. I want to watch the movie, and if someone interrupts my movie, and says "Let's go do something else", I can walk out in the middle without feeling any loss.
The rise of dispassion before the heart opens like a flower in bloom. |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 1:06:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Namath
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
What I mean is, if I believe what all these other people believe, you get caught up in emotional turmoil, and who is right and wrong, and needing to do something about it. I'm not interested in that. I don't want it to touch me in the sense that I don't want to care. I want to watch the movie, and if someone interrupts my movie, and says "Let's go do something else", I can walk out in the middle without feeling any loss.
Once again you've touched an issue that takes my attention from time to time in some spiritual people
What is with the not caring part?does equanimity make one not care?
I've observed some & they do feel like robots.no compassion,no caring...
If spirituality is loosing our human side... the Love & care to one another then I'd rather be non-spiritual human
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
It's a phase, it passes but it can't be bypassed. It's dispassion, observing but unaffected. Without that stage emotions and events would attach. There needs to be a space, not so much a wall, but a intangible gap. After that you can enjoy the whole full colour, fully emotional, fully interactive world without disturbance.
Pass plz
Dispassion feels so unnatural Karl!It's not like me and/or loved ones gonna live forever.we may not even live till tomorrow...why waste time in dispassion?instead of fully expressing our love and gratitude for those we care about....
yes to practices as I enjoy and feel it's allocated time for my God that i love.No to dispassion
This is how I feel!my opinion may change with time or may not,I don't know!
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 1:30:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Namath
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
What I mean is, if I believe what all these other people believe, you get caught up in emotional turmoil, and who is right and wrong, and needing to do something about it. I'm not interested in that. I don't want it to touch me in the sense that I don't want to care. I want to watch the movie, and if someone interrupts my movie, and says "Let's go do something else", I can walk out in the middle without feeling any loss.
Once again you've touched an issue that takes my attention from time to time in some spiritual people
What is with the not caring part?does equanimity make one not care?
I've observed some & they do feel like robots.no compassion,no caring...
If spirituality is loosing our human side... the Love & care to one another then I'd rather be non-spiritual human
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
It's a phase, it passes but it can't be bypassed. It's dispassion, observing but unaffected. Without that stage emotions and events would attach. There needs to be a space, not so much a wall, but a intangible gap. After that you can enjoy the whole full colour, fully emotional, fully interactive world without disturbance.
Pass plz
Dispassion feels so unnatural Karl!It's not like me and/or loved ones gonna live forever.we may not even live till tomorrow...why waste time in dispassion?instead of fully expressing our love and gratitude for those we care about....
yes to practices as I enjoy and feel it's allocated time for my God that i love.No to dispassion
This is how I feel!my opinion may change with time or may not,I don't know!
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
No one said you had to no need to be concerned about anyone else in dispassion either. Chill and enjoy life as you wish. |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 3:16:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
quote:
Originally posted by Namath
Once again you've touched an issue that takes my attention from time to time in some spiritual people
What is with the not caring part?does equanimity make one not care?
I've observed some & they do feel like robots.no compassion,no caring...
If spirituality is loosing our human side... the Love & care to one another then I'd rather be non-spiritual human
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
It's a phase, it passes but it can't be bypassed. It's dispassion, observing but unaffected. Without that stage emotions and events would attach. There needs to be a space, not so much a wall, but a intangible gap. After that you can enjoy the whole full colour, fully emotional, fully interactive world without disturbance.
"No one said you had to no need to be concerned about anyone else in dispassion either. Chill and enjoy life as you wish"
the above reply was meant for me no?
this is supposed to be a discussion & it happens to touch points that I personally care about.No one else is meant
Salam |
Edited by - Namath on Jun 23 2012 4:00:09 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 4:12:27 PM
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quote:
I have a question maybe someone who has good knowledge in advaitic teaching can give a satisfying answer.my mind refuses to drop this question
Life is compared to a dream.therefore,Like the mind creates dream state,it creates this life....so it's basically referred to as another dream.
However!A simple experiment and this proves wrong.Take free-fall for example....You can do as much as you wish free-falls...and then continue the dream as if nothing has happened.
Have one free-fall in this life & bye bye...you exit this world ...it's one try & die
Going back to your original question...
It isn't life which is a dream, it's "your life" which is a dream. Life itself is absolutely real. That's the crucial difference and the fundamental thing to understand about advaita. What we do, is to superimpose a story about ourselves and our family and our work and our friends and enemies on top of what is real. On top of life itself. Then we call the life that we have created with our minds: "life", and we call it "reality" when actually we just made the whole thing up in the first place. So our made-up-life, is the one which is like a dream, it has no substance, no fundamental grounding in reality. And keeping our dream-life going, requires an enormous amount of energy, because it doesn't really exist. So it has to be continuously recreated in every moment in order to give it the illusion of existence.
This is the basic crux of advaitic teaching, or advaita vedanta. Let go of the dream, and you come into reality, you come to experience life as it really is. And in reality there is true compassion. Actually, in the dream state there cannot be compassion, there can only be passion. Just like there cannot be love, only desire.
But advaita teaching is not for everyone, so if this just serves to confuse you, let it be and come back to it at a later stage.
Christi
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 8:19:45 PM
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I think Castaneda wrote something about that. Something like we do things because of forces outside ourselves, then we make up reasons after the fact to make it seem like we were in control. Most people are not aware that they made up reasons later.
This is what i have become aware of. Sometimes I make major decisions now, and have no idea why, just inner guru showing me the way. I feel this weak urge to find the reasons why, but i just let it go because it is too much trouble without any apparent reward.
I figure if anyone asks why I did something, I can just say "i don't know", and not care what they think.
What i do know is that the decisions were the right thing to do. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 8:31:48 PM
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It reminds me of a song by Bjork called "Isobel".
She says it is a dramatized story of her own life.
It is about a girl who was born in the forest, but as she grows up she moves to the city.
Her personality clashes with city life, so she moves back to the forest to a little hut, where she isolates herself.
She collects moths and trains them to fly out the window and all over the world to deliver her message of "instinct".
They get in front of the nose of anyone who is too logical and fly back and forth singing "Na na na na", until they snap out of it and stop being so sensible. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2012 : 9:32:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I think Castaneda wrote something about that. Something like we do things because of forces outside ourselves, then we make up reasons after the fact to make it seem like we were in control. Most people are not aware that they made up reasons later.
This is what i have become aware of. Sometimes I make major decisions now, and have no idea why, just inner guru showing me the way. I feel this weak urge to find the reasons why, but i just let it go because it is too much trouble without any apparent reward.
I figure if anyone asks why I did something, I can just say "i don't know", and not care what they think.
What i do know is that the decisions were the right thing to do.
Perfect. It's not an easy thing to manage giving up the control even though you never actually had. After the event is also the case. People talk about fate or luck, but they are just 'after the fact' views of having control by proxy. They are abdicated beliefs in control which are hard to give up.
I hadn't read that in Casteneda, maybe I would not have understood it at the time. I missed so many clues because I thought I had control. Very funny when I dip into memory, but that's the road followed and it's highly individual.
Thanks for the information. |
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2012 : 3:19:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
I have a question maybe someone who has good knowledge in advaitic teaching can give a satisfying answer.my mind refuses to drop this question
Life is compared to a dream.therefore,Like the mind creates dream state,it creates this life....so it's basically referred to as another dream.
However!A simple experiment and this proves wrong.Take free-fall for example....You can do as much as you wish free-falls...and then continue the dream as if nothing has happened.
Have one free-fall in this life & bye bye...you exit this world ...it's one try & die
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Habibti,
You raised the crux point. Life as a dream? This is the place where Tantra beats Vedanta that includes advaitha and renunciant principles of yoga and also buddhism principles. As per Tantra, life is real.
Life is real. Practical consequence of this view is that even the family holders (known as Gruhasta) can attain spiritual liberation, similar to monks. One need not leave their family and become a monk or lead the life of strict brahmachraya (celibacy) or strain physical senses to get spiritual liberation.
Other principles encourage people to become monk for spiritual liberation, claiming that life is a dream and world is illusion.
Salam |
Edited by - yogishankar on Jun 28 2012 09:32:23 AM |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2516 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2012 : 3:27:34 PM
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quote:
Life is real.
very nice post yogishankar...very down to earth |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2012 : 6:29:33 PM
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Hello Shankar,Shlonak!
I actually lost interest in the question through out the conversation...Christi reply was like shut up to my mind.
"lead the life of strict brahmachraya (celibacy)"
I never considered celibacy ..but ever since I've started practices almost 3 years now,I never had the desire to be physical intimate with anyone.So you may say celibacy was a by-product of practices by itself over here.
thank you for your opinion.
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img] |
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jamuna
Australia
104 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2012 : 11:59:00 PM
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I kinda like the expression. "life is like a dream".
When I am dreaming there is a central character....me, and sometimes there are bad guys and good guys and sometimes people do die. There are buildings and people plotting against me and people loving me but they are all created by the one consciousness of the dreamer. There is no 'you' in a dream its all you but 'none of the dream encompasses all of you'....its a dream.
That helps me realise how it might be possible the same is happening here, the one dreamer has identified himself with only one character in the dream again, and the character is scared because he might die and all the rest but it is possible I could wake up and realise I am something bigger then the dream... the dreamer. The consciousness that projected it all and watched it unfold.
but that's no reason to go jumping off buildings, like Paramahansa Yogananda said
"hit your dream head against a dream wall and you will feel dream pain"
much love |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 02:02:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jamuna
I kinda like the expression. "life is like a dream".
When I am dreaming there is a central character....me, and sometimes there are bad guys and good guys and sometimes people do die. There are buildings and people plotting against me and people loving me but they are all created by the one consciousness of the dreamer. There is no 'you' in a dream its all you but 'none of the dream encompasses all of you'....its a dream.
That helps me realise how it might be possible the same is happening here, the one dreamer has identified himself with only one character in the dream again, and the character is scared because he might die and all the rest but it is possible I could wake up and realise I am something bigger then the dream... the dreamer. The consciousness that projected it all and watched it unfold.
but that's no reason to go jumping off buildings, like Paramahansa Yogananda said
"hit your dream head against a dream wall and you will feel dream pain"
much love
I like this answer
You and Shankar are getting me in the mood for this conversation again.
Christi!nice try...this mind is back to active mode
The thing Jamuna after asking this question I figured out that whether life is a dream or not a dream it won't make any difference in the mean time for me.It's still in the mind & whatever thoughts on this subject is just to entertain my mind.
that's the truth.
thank you everybody,enjoyed this conversation.
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 05:11:00 AM
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| Karl, you said: "then it all slipped into place and my mind stopped fighting it because it realised its proper position as an interface." yep, my experience, too. |
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yogishankar
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 09:30:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
Hello Shankar,Shlonak!
I actually lost interest in the question through out the conversation...Christi reply was like shut up to my mind.
"lead the life of strict brahmachraya (celibacy)"
I never considered celibacy ..but ever since I've started practices almost 3 years now,I never had the desire to be physical intimate with anyone.So you may say celibacy was a by-product of practices by itself over here.
thank you for your opinion.
[img]icon_heart.gif[/img]
Ah!! Now you have become a true yogi. In Yoga, desires drop automatically. In other principles, desires have to be suppressed.
Having followed various principles, I can confidently say that Yoga can be authentic approach to reach the Ultimate, for any human being. |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2012 : 11:44:10 AM
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 03:37:25 AM
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Hi Namath,
quote:
Christi!nice try...this mind is back to active mode
If that is the case, then it is best to spend more time cultivating inner silence before concerning yourself with advaitic teachings. Otherwise it can become a process of the mind playing with the mind without anything worthwhile being accomplished. |
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Namath
350 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2012 : 04:56:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi Namath,
quote:
Christi!nice try...this mind is back to active mode
If that is the case, then it is best to spend more time cultivating inner silence before concerning yourself with advaitic teachings. Otherwise it can become a process of the mind playing with the mind without anything worthwhile being accomplished.
All is unfolding as should be.
It's not a concern...Just an interest...comes & go :)
thank you for your input! |
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showup
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 6:23:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Namath
Have one free-fall in this life & bye bye...you exit this world ...it's one try & die
By doing this experiment.... one does not exit the world...
You feel so, because you assume this is the only life you have…if you lose that you lose everything…
As per Hindu system and advaitic teaching the jeeva undergoes endless birth and death again and again….So, just by dyeing one more time one does not lose anything at all… Let’s assume, I underwent about one million of births and deaths prior to this life… If I undertake the free fall experiment and die again, what difference it is going to make?... I will be losing my wife and kids… So what? I already lost millions of wives several millions of kids… so what difference it makes?... if I die one more time that would just increase in the count by one in the cycle (one millionth and one time). Nothing ends there… my jeeva will born again as per the karma and undergo pain/pleasure as per karma again…
So, you can now believe… indeed this world is dream… You will be able to verify this only when you get enlightened…
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 8:32:02 PM
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| If nothing has any significance, why would you try to interact with people at all? But if interaction has meaning, then it doesn't matter what we name the world we are acting in. |
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showup
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 10:18:30 PM
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Let’s assume ‘Person x’ who works as a drama actor. As part of his profession, one day he acts as a king, next day as beggar, third day as a businessman forth day as servant. What difference it makes in his original personality whether he acts as a king or beggar or businessman or servant if he is doing it over and over again, playing different roles for thousands of times? It will make no difference in his own personality because he knows that he is an actor. He is what he is. He is not going to become king in his original life because he is playing the role of king in a drama. Right?... At the same time he is not going to refuse to play the role of king in the drama after assuming the makeup of king and went on to the stage because his personality is actually not king….
Similarly, we are actually Atman with Godly quality. We just have born here to play a role because of our karma. But what are we doing?....We are just forgetting that we are Atman…we assume that we have a wife/husband, kids, home, big bank balance etc., etc. Isn’t this something like our Person x who is pretending to be a king in the drama actually behave like king outside of drama? Does Atman have wife/husband, kids, home, big bank balance? No…We are really atman…aren’t we? If so why we should we have wife/husband, kids, home, big bank balance etc., etc? That is where the confusion comes in. We forget who we are and hence fail to behave accordingly because of ignorance/maya….
quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
If nothing has any significance, why would you try to interact with people at all?
We do interact with people because of our karma like Person x acting as king in drama. Other than this it is not our personality to interact with others. I mean Atman does not interact…It is not Atman’s quality…
Isn’t the world a dream….?
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Edited by - showup on Jul 05 2012 11:25:40 PM |
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Life as a dream
