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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
 Posted - May 04 2006 : 08:58:30 AM
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What to do when the glow of my spine increases to a "being drunk with ecstacy" several times a day? Every time I keep being relaxed in a situation like that, it increases the ecstacy - both in intensity and quantity.
Am i to "pull myself together" - in other words resist it?
I self-pace. But it happens anyhow. Am I to stop meditation all together?
Is it wise to revert to "i am" when the ecstacy is strong between meditation times? Or will this set off even more ecstacy?
I have a lot of activity in the ajna.....there is a continuos opening of this chakra.....but somehow the opening is not enough to "let out" the "steam" from the energy below.
What to (not) do?
Thanks....anyone
May all your Nows be Here |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 09:20:47 AM
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http://www.aypsite.org/258.html
Pay it no attention, it's just byproduct. As I said a couple weeks ago, it ebbs and flows. If it starts interfering with your life, self pace more. Meditate less (and drop all energetic practices - I myself only do meditation and samyama). If that doesn't do it, I offer simple advice: go retrograde. Consider the things people do to "get more spiritual" (eat light, introvert, seek quiet, nature, and art, etc) and do the opposite. Logical, no?
Same advice for those having trouble easing a pitta imbalance via the usual steps.
And remember Yogani's dynamite insight, that this is all neurological. That's not by any means an atheistic point of view (god's in the neurons), but bear in mind that there's no reason to get all woo-woo. Half the intoxication comes from the feeling You're On The Brink of Something Big. It's good to get past that ASAP.
More esoteric, and much harder to do: examination will show you that the ecstacy is actually just a layer...an overlay, like the anatomy books that let you overlay the skeleton, the circulatory system, the nervous system, etc. It's a really superficial and quite modular layer that can actually be pulled back (i.e. opted out from). I don't mean stopping the ecstacy or repressing it, I mean simply cease to perceive it as ecstacy -which is much more a subjective interpretation than you'd ever imagine. It's very hard to explain what I'm talking about, much less do it, but here's how I blundered into the realization: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=577
And, yes, Frank, I'm talking about koshas to a certain extent :) ....but I don't know if there's much practical insight there to apply to this practical topic. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 04 2006 09:30:29 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 09:48:11 AM
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Hi Katrine,
You are, I guess what Yogani describes as the "sensitive kind". Do you take enough rest after your meditation?
He has talked about people who were extremely sensitive to meditation in lessons 160 and 200. You could look those up. Maybe something there will help you.
http://www.aypsite.org/160.html
http://www.aypsite.org/200.html
I am sure this will pass..
-Shanti |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 10:22:20 AM
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Thanks, Jim
Yogani writes in the lesson you linked me to above:
"If you feel you are off balance in your practices,
then ease off the ecstasy-producing ones and favor deep meditation
more for a while"
Well. I guess this means that i need to drop both Spinal breathing and Samyama for a while. I am hesitant to drop Spinal breathing - because of the "crown issue". At least now the energy goes mostly towards the ajna. But i can experiment with dropping anything but deep meditation - and then report back.
Jim wrote:
quote:
Consider the things people do to "get more spiritual" (eat light, introvert, seek quiet, nature, and art, etc) and do the opposite. Logical, no?
Great advise, Jim. This is one of the reasons that I change my work now. I need to balance. If I keep treating people at the clinic (which involves a continuous honing of perception skills), singing, writing poetry, hug trees (out walking with my dog), teach meditation, lecture on health issues, guiding students etc......
Well - I will balance with something completely ordinary.
quote:
and drop all energetic practices
All i do, is Pranayama (you don't do that, Jim?), meditation and Samyama.
quote:
but bear in mind that there's no reason to get all woo-woo. Half the intoxication comes from the feeling You're On The Brink of Something Big. It's good to get past that ASAP
I don't at all feel woo-woo  or on the brink of something big. The "intoxication" is simply just that. I don't particularly "want to pay attention to it" - but it is there, isn't it? And yes - it is definitely interfering with "my life". That is why I want to self-pace. It is "how to self-pace the best way" that made me post this.
quote:
I don't mean stopping the ecstacy or repressing it, I mean simply cease to perceive it as ecstacy -which is much more a subjective interpretation than you'd ever imagine.
Actually - what i perceive it to be right now is "a disturbance". Thanks for your link on this - i went through a similar experience in August 2005. the ecstacy/bliss went away for two days. When it came back, something had changed. After this incident I started experiencing the "vapor" (what you call "after glow").
Jim
Your advice is much appreciated. Just so there is no misunderstanding - I move continually deeper. I don't favor ecstacy over stillness. But - as I'm sure you have experienced - periods of a lot of ecstatic conductivity makes it more difficult to access the stillness. This is why i am in need of advise.
Thanks a lot. It is good to know you exist
May all your Nows be Here |
Edited by - Katrine on May 05 2006 06:32:20 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 10:27:21 AM
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Hi Shanti
Thanks
quote:
You are, I guess what Yogani describes as the "sensitive kind". Do you take enough rest after your meditation?
Well. I have been meditating for 20 years. The last 10 it has been every day. "Sensitive to meditation" has never been an issue before this....
As for the rest after meditation - I usually sit for about 3-5 min after I'm done with Samyama.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 11:07:54 AM
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Hi Katrine,
A good self-pacing formula for me, when things get out of hand, is to reduce my meditation, pranayama and samyama time by 50% (and drop any extra mudras) until I feel my balance return. As I feel it return, I slowly inch upwards in time, until I feel I am in or close to the "too much" realm again, then I ease off and that is how I find my place of balance in practices.
I used to do 10 minutes of pranayama, 5 minutes of dynamic jalandra, 5 minutes of bastrika, 20 minutes of meditation and 10 minutes of samyama. I did this for 6 months and only occassionally went over. For some reason, since the beginning of January, I haven't been able to nearly this amount. My current routine is much shorter or I find myself over. I can now only do 8-10 minutes of pranayama, 2 minutes of jalandra, 1 minute of bastrika, 15 minutes of meditation and 5 minutes of samyama. In fact, it is very easy for me to go over these days, book reading, tantra, a minute or two too much in any of the above practices etc. my sensitivity level seems to have sky-rocketed.
I personally would reduce my pranayama time by 50% before dropping it completely as it has a nice energy balancing affect. I might avoid any breath suspensions too, if it were me.
all the best,
A |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 11:12:38 AM
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Katrine,
Yogani has said before... there are periods when you need to rest more after meditation... maybe 10-15 mins.. if possible lie down. This is one thing that did help me a lot (actually I still do it esp. since I feel like I am drunk or high on drugs after I am done with my routine). Not sure if it will help you, but you could try it if you have the time.
Also, how long so you do Shamyama.. Yogani had told me to cut down shamyama by half.. and in order to do so, he said for some time do the sutras just once.. or do them twice and after 5 mins stop wherever you are. I did not like the idea of stopping wherever I was.. so I had cut it down to each sutra just once.. So between the cutting down of spinal breathing to 5 mins, meditation I kept at 20 min. and Shamyama down to 5 - 8 min .. and rest for 10-15 min.. I did feel a difference in a couple of days.
I know each of us is different. Just telling you what helped me.
-Shanti
I did not see your post Anthem.. I guess you are saying the same thing. |
Edited by - Shanti on May 04 2006 11:42:09 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 12:06:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Your advice is much appreciated. Just so there is no misunderstanding - I move continually deeper. I don't favor ecstacy over stillness. But - as I'm sure you have experienced - periods of a lot of ecstatic conductivity makes it more difficult to access the stillness. This is why i am in need of advise.
I hope it helps. I understand well the problem.
As for pranayama, it literally goes both ways. Ideally it balances things out, but it can (depending on where your blocks are) take more energy "down" or "up". I decided, in my case, it was taking too much up and was adding to my energy problems and I suspended the practice (temporarily). If you're having crown issues, that's a different thing. If you do cease pranayama and are worried about crown, bear in mind that a real careful sambhavi is key to keeping the route going the way we'd like it to. The ajna is the control, and so long as you maintain an innate sense of this, your energy will continue to favor that pathway. And if the pranayma has been relatively free and easy (i.e. the "right of way" of this route to ajna, not crown, is well established) then it shouldn't be a big issue. Let me know if that's clear at all.
Y'know, between crown problems, ecstacy problems, and pitta problems, I think everything is telling you quite clearly to do less. Cut the meditation time. And cut out the tree hugging. Join a bowling league. Scream at your neighbors. (more seriously) walk a ton...it's grounding. Engage a ton. even with (especially with!) chatty annoying people. Contract a bit and come back to earth.
Finally, a totally different perspective. As you know, those who wait for conditions to be optimal to do practice, miss the point. It might be too hot, too cold, the neighbors can be fighting, it's all just externalities to ignore as you simply do this simple practice. The fundamental practice is also to not get distracted by our internal thoughts and feelings. Consider: the ecstacy is just more of that stuff. So it can't interfere with your silence. Nothing can interfere with your silence, because the silence is the source of it all (including bowling and screaming at your neighbors).
But....again....I'd really tighten up the meditation time. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 04 2006 12:13:31 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 12:20:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
don't particularly "want to pay attention to it" - but it is there, isn't it?
Actually, no, it isn't. There is energy there. You interpret it as ecstacy. At a certain point, I guess you sort of numb out your ecstacy receptors, and experience the crude energy at face value. From that point, as you open more and ecstacy relaunches, it becomes easy to choose to not be "ecstacized" by it. I can't teach you how, because I was involuntarily shown this when I myself went numb ( (in that thread I linked you to, "Bliss Goes Dead"). But I can assure you it's the truth that ecstacy is all in the interpretation, so you can maybe watch for it. It really makes things easier...if you don't start getting neurotic worrying that it'll never come back |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 04 2006 12:24:04 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 12:40:39 PM
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| I've never hugged a tree. Is that why I don't have problems with ecstacy? I do scream at my neighbors from time to time. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 1:33:03 PM
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Meg: you need to hug more trees, Katrina needs to hug less of them. There, I've now profoundly surmised everyone's situation (wiping hands together industriously).
Katrina, one more note: you've been meditating for 20 years, and so have many of us. AYP meditation is unquestionably stronger stuff. And thus you must carefully adjust your dosage! :) |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 2:20:53 PM
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Katrina. what about sexual energy?
Maybe a public forum is not the easiest place to discuss this more personal issue but it is consistant with teh kundalini practice to address. If a great deal of sexual energy is stored combined with these practices it can indeed stimulate these sorts of experiences. Also the energy connection of relationship can help balance these experiences. i don't know if you have a partner but if you do, it is possible that a little old fashioned good non tantric sex might be the right release of steam |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2006 : 2:40:02 PM
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Wooohooo.. is it just me, or did it just get hot in here 
Good point though Victor. |
Edited by - Shanti on May 04 2006 2:42:08 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 03:18:58 AM
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Hi Andrew
quote:
I personally would reduce my pranayama time by 50% before dropping it completely as it has a nice energy balancing affect. I might avoid any breath suspensions too, if it were me.
I am smiling.....because this morning I simply decided to do 2 min of Pranayama and 5 min of meditation for a few days (I haven't done any breath suspensions). As so often before, I get validation from "outside" after making my decision. Thanks, Andrew
Last night - right before sleep came - I was in "the still room". It is as if everything winds down, down, down - and then suddenly I am in total calmness. It is also total clarity. The calmness is always informing in certain ways. Yesterday it simply told me (and it is always with a gentle smile; sometimes boardering on a gentle laugh): "You have absolutely nothing to worry about. Everything is proceeding exactly the way it should. Play. Laugh. Get on with your life. Everything is taken care of."
So I guess that's that, eh?
Much like Jim were saying
Have a brilliant day, Andrew.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 03:20:06 AM
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Meg wrote
quote:
I've never hugged a tree. Is that why I don't have problems with ecstacy? I do scream at my neighbors from time to time
Meg you are hilarious! Just what I need. Thank you!
May all your Nows be Here |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 03:35:19 AM
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Jim wrote:
quote:
There is energy there. You interpret it as ecstacy. At a certain point, I guess you sort of numb out your ecstacy receptors, and experience the crude energy at face value. From that point, as you open more and ecstacy relaunches, it becomes easy to choose to not be "ecstacized" by it. I can't teach you how, because I was involuntarily shown this when I myself went numb ( (in that thread I linked you to, "Bliss Goes Dead"). But I can assure you it's the truth that ecstacy is all in the interpretation, so you can maybe watch for it. It really makes things easier...if you don't start getting neurotic worrying that it'll never come back
Yes. I interpret it as ecstacy. But - I am very aware of the fact that it is just "a layer" as you call it. The vapor (glow) - on the other hand is not.
I perceive anything that is limited to my body to be a layer. The ecstacy is in my body; the vapor reaches far beyond it.
The vapor is real, the ecstacy "is not". I know exactly what you mean, Jim. However - when the ecstacy is very strong; I sort of "lose" this knowing. Not because I am in love with it and want to indulge.....come to think of it, it is more like it is in love with me. At times, I am simply not strong enough yet, to not pay attention to it. If "I try" not to pay attention - it gets worse. That's like "trying to not get drunk" after too much alcohol. (FYI: i don't drink at all - not even a sip of wine. I simply can't - it is pure poison. It has been like this for about a year.)
So - I am relying on time and wise self pacing to get me through this. It is great to have so much help at hand! Yoganis teachings are such a treasure! And this forum is pretty unique.
Again - what you say about the ecstacy being "a layer"; I can resonate with this. For some time now; when I look at myself in the mirror two things happen:
1. The one in the mirror is not me. I can't say that I am looking at a stranger - because I know my body. It is more like looking at a pair of my shoes. Knowing their mine; but also knowing they are not me. Definitely not. The feeling threw me off in the beginning - it is like being without identity. But - when I gradually perceived it more clearly - it engenders an enormous feeling of freedom.
2. When I look at myself like this, I am boarderless. I am simply everywhere in the room. It is like looking at myself from both outside and inside. The separation becomes meaningless then, doesn't it?
So. The ecstacy "binds me" to the body. The vapor frees me of it. There is a huge difference.
Jim.
I refrain from hugging trees now. I simply look at them 
quote:
Katrina, one more note: you've been meditating for 20 years, and so have many of us. AYP meditation is unquestionably stronger stuff. And thus you must carefully adjust your dosage! :)
Yes, Jim. Point taken.
quote:
If you do cease pranayama and are worried about crown, bear in mind that a real careful sambhavi is key to keeping the route going the way we'd like it to. The ajna is the control, and so long as you maintain an innate sense of this, your energy will continue to favor that pathway.
Now this is great, Jim. This really helps me. I never intentionally "did" sambhavi. I just found out that I had been doing it spontaniously for a long time (long before meeting AYP). And you are so right: "A real careful sambhavi" is just it. It is almost not a physical thing. With me it just happens the instant my attention is there. Often, it then just stays that way without having to "check in". I will remember this.
quote:
The fundamental practice is also to not get distracted by our internal thoughts and feelings. Consider: the ecstacy is just more of that stuff. So it can't interfere with your silence. Nothing can interfere with your silence, because the silence is the source of it all (including bowling and screaming at your neighbors).
This just about sums it up, doesn't it?
My experience last night (the one I told to Andrew) clearly validates this. Fundamentally - the ecstacy can't interfere with the silence. I love it, Jim
It is finally spring here!
Have a bright day
May all your Nows be Here |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 03:52:16 AM
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Victor
I love your frankness
quote:
Katrina. what about sexual energy?
Maybe a public forum is not the easiest place to discuss this more personal issue but it is consistant with teh kundalini practice to address. If a great deal of sexual energy is stored combined with these practices it can indeed stimulate these sorts of experiences. Also the energy connection of relationship can help balance these experiences. i don't know if you have a partner but if you do, it is possible that a little old fashioned good non tantric sex might be the right release of steam
I am still laughing....not because you are wrong.....simply because it is such a valid point; and I have completely overlooked this possibility. My husband will be thrilled
Actually - there is a lot more to this issue that I can't debate in an open forum (as you pointed out, Victor). As you might know by now - I am not particularly shy (being a viking woman and all....) - but I can't put anybody elses life on display.
As for storage of sexual energy....I really don't know. My "problem" seems to be that all of it ventures upwards. Then again; that's what we want, isn't it?......Or maybe what we want is more like the energy being "mated with stillness" everywhere in the body. A "spreading out"...instead of a "going up". Just a thought....
Anyway. Thanks, Victor. If you have ideas that you feel is "too private to post here" - feel free to mail me.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 04:01:53 AM
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Shanti
quote:
Katrine,
Yogani has said before... there are periods when you need to rest more after meditation... maybe 10-15 mins.. if possible lie down. This is one thing that did help me a lot (actually I still do it esp. since I feel like I am drunk or high on drugs after I am done with my routine). Not sure if it will help you, but you could try it if you have the time.
Also, how long so you do Shamyama..
Yes. I see your point, Shanti. And I do think resting after meditation is important. The times that I have had to interrupt the meditation can wreck havock in my nervous system. I am very careful not to do this.
What I have noticed, though, is that if I extend the rest after meditation - I just find myself in new waves of ecstacy. I have found that if I can go for a walk after meditation; this grounds me, and is overall a better route.
The ecstacy also increases the instant I lie down. It definitely gets a charge from physical relaxation.
Shanti. Thanks for caring.
May all your Nows be Here |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 11:56:48 AM
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Katrine, re: Victor's advice, be careful. With kundalini ignited, that stuff is ready to flare up 1000 times as much as before....by which I don't mean a thousand times "hotter sex" (hey, Yogani, I just got the forum 10,000 more "hits" per day!), I mean 1000 times as addictive a trap.
There's nothing wrong with tearing loose once in a while to dump energy. But if that becomes your dependable outlet for release, it's like someone with alcoholic genes looking to whiskey as the dependable outlet for relaxation. You're experiencing how great upward feels. You may have forgotten that downward also has its allures. I'll refrain from Darth Vaderish paens to "the dark side."
Don't be a nun, but be aware that with heightened energy comes heightened responsibility to keep the energy mostly going up (toward spirituality) rather than down. That's not a moral injunction, it's about a physical process (on the other hand, that's where the moral injunction originally came from). And be aware that it's a more intense ballgame with higher stakes now. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 05 2006 12:08:11 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 12:02:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
[
My "problem" seems to be that all of it ventures upwards. Then again; that's what we want, isn't it?
Yes, in the end, however you are showing all the signs of an overabundance of upward energy (with your pitta overload, your drunkenness, and your crown concerns). And an overabundance of upward energy can, as victor said, be addressed by taking some downward. Consider my posting above about doing the opposite of all the advice given to people trying to be "more spiritual".
Whether you choose to (rarely!) do this release or not is up to you. But be aware that the upward venturing will in any case eventually backtrack. All human pursuits backtrack in time, as you've surely noticed. There are no straight lines in anything we do! Your ecstacy will dry up for periods and you'll revert to experiencing occasional suffering (though you'll be less strongly tethered to that suffering). We keep brushing our teeth regardless, and in the end it all works. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 05 2006 12:05:12 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 1:22:38 PM
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Jim, I am very grateful. This is all excellent advise. And a good example of how this forum (all of you) helps me balance.
quote:
You're experiencing how great upward feels. You may have forgotten that downward also has its allures
I'll keep that in mind.
quote:
Consider my posting above about doing the opposite of all the advice given to people trying to be "more spiritual".
I am not considering it As of yesterday, I simply started doing it. I feel more balanced already. (My husband will just have to wait )
quote:
Your ecstacy will dry up for periods and you'll revert to experiencing occasional suffering (though you'll be less strongly tethered to that suffering
Actually - the ecstacy doesn't take away the deepest "split". Only the vapor does that. So I still suffer occasionally. But - as a collegue of mine commented when I spent 9 days in hospital (last spring) with my eldest daughter (she was critically ill for days): "How can you be so utterly calm?!". I suffered, alright - but it didn't throw me off inner silence.
Pretty amazing....
Thank you Grace
May all your Nows be Here |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 1:38:07 PM
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it's a vocabulary thing. The literature says that as we practice, we still grieve over what there is to grieve over, we are sad or joyful when those emotions arise. However we SUFFER less and less.
There's a distinction between pain (which is inextricably human) and suffering (which is a reaction we choose to attach to outselves as a result of pain). And I've found that to be true, though I still catch myself suffering (and am grateful that I'm less tethered to it than before....though if I let it build up, I can imagine getting strongly caught again). Pain just is. Suffering is reaction based on faulty understanding.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 1:40:39 PM
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PS--do not undervalue the usefulness of walking to resolve your current circumstance. For thousands of years that's what teachers have been telling their students when they have the drunkenness and overabundance of energy.
A year ago, when I was in your shoes, I was walking as much as 3 or 4 miles per day. Felt good and it helped. |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2006 : 4:42:55 PM
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| Thanks Katrine, Jim and all for your exchange. Bewell |
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Drunk with ecstacy
