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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 27 2006 : 4:36:44 PM
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I just finished Yogani's Spinal breathing book. The book is as simple and yet as powerful as the pranayam itself. Thank you Yogani for another great book. It is amazing how much info you have jammed into that little green book.
There was a part of the book that talked on higher and lower beings. It was something I found fascinating.. because it explains a lot of things I have been seeing and feeling. As I had said in one of my posts.. I could see people, wasn't sure if they were dead people or visions from my past lives.. That I guess would be the lower beings Yogani talks about.
In another post I talked about having a constant feeling of a presence of something/someone... esp. when I am alone... I don't see it, I just know its there.. gives me a feeling of being full in my heart. I guess this must the higher beings that Yogani talks about.
I know it is all a part of the scenery.. I am not getting caught up in it.. just when I read this in Yogani's book it was like a sudden ahaa!!
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Edited by - Shanti on Apr 29 2006 1:35:35 PM |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2006 : 09:05:59 AM
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Sure, it's "all part of the scenery" and not helpful to get caught up in, but the implications of one's interpretations of these sorts of visions are extremely important.
The core, foundational beliefs of many/most(?) religious systems come from the interpretations of such experiences.
Whether a system believes in the existence of hells, ghost realms, samsara, etc implies quite a bit about the underlying nature of the life force, God, Tao, etc.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2006 : 09:17:30 AM
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Hi Shanti
I just finished "Spinal Breathing" too. (About an hour ago)
I find it loving and powerful.
I wonder.....the presence you talk about that is a "full" sense (in heart?....head?) - it could be your own silence. It is often perceived as "something other than ourselves". Just a thought. It might also be both - a higher being touching you in the space of your silence.
Anyway - it sounds loving
May all your Nows be Here |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2006 : 10:29:27 AM
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quote:
Katrine wrote: I wonder.....the presence you talk about that is a "full" sense (in heart?....head?) - it could be your own silence. It is often perceived as "something other than ourselves". Just a thought. It might also be both - a higher being touching you in the space of your silence.
Hi Katrine, Yoda & Shanti:
It is our inner silence, and it is the expression of our inner silence through our chosen ideal, our ishta. It is both, just as you say. And both are One, just as we are One in the rising unity of our unbounded pure bliss consciousness.
Whatever our ideal or object of devotion may be, the enlivenment of our inner silence via practices will bring our ideal into manifestation. This is related to the process of samyama, where a slight intention initiated and released in the depths of our inner silence can manifest outward with great power.
Fortunately, and by divine design, the degree of power (and moral depth) is in proportion to our presence in inner silence.
This is why Jesus said, "Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven..."
With sound spiritual practices we naturally bypass all the lower planes in favor of something far greater -- that place in us where we, God and the cosmos are One Great Dance of ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love!
In the Deep Meditation and Spinal Breathing books, I felt it was important to touch on this topic of lower and higher beings, not because it is a primary consideration in AYP (it is scenery), but because many people have experiences of "beings" at one level or another, and I wanted to recognize this and relate it to practices from the AYP point of view.
Shanti, your sharing is very beautiful, and is the experience of "higher being" manifestation discussed in the Spinal Breathing book -- the experience of your inner silence manifesting divinity in a way that expresses your own devotional inclination and interpretation. That is beautiful. We all do the same in our own way as we expand in inner silence and ecstatic conductivity -- find our God or Truth within ourselves in a way that is most intimate and fulfilling for us. Then we can express that unique flow of Grace coming through us in all that we do. It is our marriage with our higher nature, which can be seen as Lover and Beloved, or as Oneness, or as both.
The guru is in you.
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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2006 : 6:05:04 PM
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The only time I've ever felt like I"ve been in contact with a higher being was when I was in 6th grade and had never even heard the words yoga or meditation. And I sure didn't know anything about eastern philosophy at all.
To sum up the experience: I had had a very bad case of the flu but had finally recovered. It was my first day to not have a high temperature. I felt great and was looking forward to getting to back to school. About mid-afternoon while laying on the couch, I turned off the television and closed my eyes for a second and BOOM, I was instantly dis-associated from my body. Everything about my physical being seemed foreign in the sense that I knew definitively that it wasn't "me". I felt timeless and certain realizations began flooding into me, the main one being that I wasn't who (or what) I thought I was. It was a very dramatic experience and I can't even verbally describe it except to say that something was in that place with me, communicating with me. Not verbally, because words weren't necessary. It felt like a very old and wise friend. It was giving me knowledge, knowledge that after a few seconds I felt I shouldn't yet be recieving. I became uncomfortable with it and asked it to stop because I felt like I wasnt supposed to know this stuff yet. I felt like it was "cheating" almost. Who or whatever that was that was communicating with me lovingly let me know that it was okay, that I didn't have to "hear" anymore now if I wasn't ready. I knew that if I kept going I would be an outcast in life. It was rapidly changing everything I thought I knew about life, including the family and other life roles, which was particularly scary to a 6th grader. Also, it generally conflicted with what I had been taught growing up in Sunday school. I knew I was eternal and for that brief period I was in eternity. I learned that nothing here can really harm any of us.
There's really alot more I can say about all that but it's so hard to explain I could ramble on too long. I tried to put it out of my mind after it happened because the implications of it shook the fundamental foundations of what most human beings (and myself at that time) believe about life and the way things are. It wasn't until I discovered meditation and eastern philosophy at the age of 19 that I had any kind of a context to put that experience in. At that point it began to make sense. Never told anyone about it until about three years ago. Now I wish I could bring that experience back but no such luck. Don't get me wrong, I've had some spiritual experiences but nothing that dramatic. I think I consciosly passed up "enlightenment" in the sixth grade because I wanted to have a "normal" life. I remember telling "it" that..."no, please no more, I want to be normal." It was one of those things that would have been completely irreversible. What I did learn however, has stuck, and given me much comfort throughout my adult life.
To this day that has been the most bizarre and, by far, powerful things I have ever experienced. And it was completely unsolicited.
(PS: Forgot to mention this... I finished Yogani's spinal breathing book last night also. Awesome book. Thank you Yogani. I've switched my practice to AYP now. On my second week of twice daily sessions of 10 min spinal breathing and 20 minutes of "I AM" mantra meditation. Good stuff.) |
Edited by - BluesFan on Apr 28 2006 6:27:10 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2006 : 11:58:59 PM
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| Yes. That presence looking over your shoulder is you. Relax into the contradiction and it will, in time, unravel. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2006 : 10:41:18 AM
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Hi BluesFan,
I think you did the right thing by refusing it then.. as you said you were not ready then.. and your "self" has a way to control what is right for you at a given moment... if you only listen. Who knows.. if you had accepted it then.. you may have landed up in a psychiatric hospital .
You will have all of that and more I am sure in this lifetime itself.. may not feel the same as it did when you were in the 6th grade.. but will feel just as significant. It will also be something you will enjoy more because this time you will not be a confused and scared child. Wish you all the best.
I am so glad you switched to AYP. Don't forget to share the next "bizarre and, powerful thing" you experience.. Also, you answered your own question really.. "And it was completely unsolicited.".. that is exactly what it should be.. no expectations... |
Edited by - Shanti on Apr 29 2006 1:35:52 PM |
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BluesFan
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2006 : 7:38:13 PM
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Hey Shanti,
I'm pretty sure I would have wound up in a mental institution had I allowed that experience to continue. I just can't see how I would have integrated all of that into my life, especially at that age. Even knowing what I know now and looking back, it's still rather extreme. The veil was being lifted but it was too abrupt, too much all at once.
I'll definitely keep you guys posted on my progress but nowadays I don't consider those sort of things strange or bizarre. But I'll keep up this spinal breathing and meditation and see what happens. Meditation is a joy. The AYP methods just seem so efficient and intuitively it feels like the thing for me to do.
-B |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 29 2006 : 11:07:45 PM
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Bluesfan,
I'm the skeptical type. Even after all these years of various practices, I take stories like that with a grain of salt. But these two sentences convince me that it was the real stuff, and quite profound:
quote:
I knew I was eternal and for that brief period I was in eternity.
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"no, please no more, I want to be normal."
I would suggest that it's not necessary to reacquaint yourself with that being/intelligence. It was just a manifestation of something much deeper. If you keep doing AYP, you'll find that you've been steeping in it all along. It's not stuff you need to learn or be informed of. All you need to do is clear the mud off your windshield and see for yourself.
Thanks for sharing. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Apr 29 2006 11:17:16 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 30 2006 : 11:12:41 AM
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quote:
Meditation is a joy. The AYP methods just seem so efficient and intuitively it feels like the thing for me to do.
Amen to that |
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 08:51:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
It is our inner silence, and it is the expression of our inner silence through our chosen ideal, our ishta.
...
Whatever our ideal or object of devotion may be, the enlivenment of our inner silence via practices will bring our ideal into manifestation. This is related to the process of samyama, where a slight intention initiated and released in the depths of our inner silence can manifest outward with great power.
Yogani
I have been reflecting on this interesting concept for some time since reading it, and have a question if you don't mind  The question is, in essence, to what extent do you believe that (for the sake of a metaphor) "being given a map in advance conditions what one finds upon investigating the territory"?
Your remarks above certainly are inclined in the conditioning direction I assume...?
A couple of years ago, as part of a part-time MA course, I wrote 5,000 words on the topic "if faith plays a role in Buddhism, can a Buddhist have a truly unconditioned experience of reality?". Now being a compassionate sort of guy I will spare yourself and readers most of the 5,000 words 
However my conclusion (FWIW) was that a person can have an unconditioned experience of reality... but in interpreting, or communicating, it the conscious mind will translate this through whatever symbol system it has to hand.
As an example of that, some time ago I heard of a group of qigong folks having a very powerful experience and vision of Kwan Yin... I was discussing this with one of them and the topic of whether it was Kwan Yin or whether they just *felt* it was Kwan Yin came up... I was strongly attacked as a sceptic (well actually a Theravadan lol)...
Anyway I subsequently heard about someone else who was there at the time, who actually had had a vision of Mary (and not of Kwan Yin)... ie it seems to me there was a very powerful experience - for the sake of argument - of the "female-divine principle"... which different folks' conscious minds substantialised with whatever 'symbol' was to hand in 'that' particular brain/mind.
Coming back to the conditioning point, I ended my essay with a statement that... although the vedantan and buddhist meditation methods are very similar (far more similar it seems to me than methods across buddhism as a whole eg), one never gets a yogi leaping off his cushion saying "my God - there is no Atman after all"  - or vice versa a monk leaping up with "my God - there is an Atman after all" 
So long waffle around my question.. but just helping to add some flesh to the bones of my long term consideration... Whilst in any type of spiritual practice we need a map... after studying it for many years... and hoping/praying to reach the goals (as described in the map)... do we just get to a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Kind regards
Mike
ps I appreciate this question is philosophical in bent - advanced yogis or monks are generally happy people who are nice to themselves and to others  so their metaphysical beliefs are somewhat secondary... [The Tao that can be Named is not the Eternal Tao...] |
Edited by - Mike on Feb 14 2007 08:57:09 AM |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 10:58:27 AM
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Hi Mike:
Good question. To my mind it has to do with our bhakti -- and our chosen ideal, which comes from deep within us. While we may choose an external structure/tradition on our path in the beginning, our emerging spiritual experience will be colored by our deeper beliefs. This can explain why a Buddhist might see Mary in a divine experience.
So, yes, our experience will be colored by our expectations -- we will ultimately see things in a way that is most deeply familiar and dear to us. This is why the principles and manifestions of spiritual experience have different names in different cultures. But I do not think the names and concepts determine the experience. It is the other way around.
While the end result may be "unconditioned," the description of that will always be on our own terms, or on terms we have borrowed from a tradition. It doesn't matter, really, as long as we have the experience to be describing.
In intellect-based systems, which all are until real spiritual experience emerges in the form of inner silence and ecstatic conductivity, etc., it might seem that the ideas are creating an expected reality. But, once real experiences arise, they can be explained using any of the intellectual systems or mythologies, assuming these are based on real experiences in the first place. And if they are not, they will be clarified and/or corrected according to what is "seen."
Ramakrisha was particularly interesting in this regard, as he made a point of practicing and achieving spiritual experience via many of the major systems (some quite diverse in approach), and living the mythologies of each in full bhakti mode.
Well, not sure if that answers your question, but it is a point of view -- another set of concepts. To be honest, it always makes me feel good when people come on here and describe their experiences in their own words and concepts, because that is a good indication of the experiences being real, and not necessarily dependent on anyone else's definition or point of view, including mine.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 2:58:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mike
Whilst in any type of spiritual practice we need a map... after studying it for many years... and hoping/praying to reach the goals (as described in the map)... do we just get to a self-fulfilling prophecy?
Kind regards
Mike
Hi Mike,
Wow - great post - thank you!
As it sounds like you're well aware, this topic (are spiritual experiences of a given type / deity influenced by pre-determined expectations, which are part of our given spiritual system / tool-set?) is a bit of a dichotomy -- but for most of us, can be very important - and in thus (in my opinion, and apparently yours ) worth considering.
And please note: the "dichotomy" I mentioned above is simply that while this topic is important on certain levels - it - and all other "topics", are entirely unimportant on other levels - the ones which ultimately matter; bhakti (however it may be focused and enhanced) and practices determine spiritual progress and realization -- though for some of us (especially in the West!  ) - a certain amount of conceptual exploration can be useful - as long as we don't fool ourselves into believing that it really means anything.
(Hence the dichotomy ... )
There's a spiritual teacher who hails from Silicon Valley (San Jose area) in California (where I currently reside; for a couple more days ...) who is becoming increasingly well-known -- and whose teachings are appreciated by at least several of us, here in the Forum. Personally, I find that as Yogani is to practices ("definately not a guru" , per Yogani himself - but rather, a very helpful friend and mentor, who - per his experience and consciousness - can serve as an invaluable guide, and save us all a vast amount of suffering, distraction and wrong-turns, as we move toward complete realization), this teacher (Adyashanti) is, in terms of helping people weave through the morass of conditioned mind (concepts, beliefs, illusions, conditioned behavior, the relationship of practices to Reality, and so on).
Please see http://www.adyashanti.org/index.php?file=teachings, if interested.
Part of Adya's (as he is known to friends / students / sangha members) methodology is to have dialog with satsang participants, and recently, a woman was speaking with him about exactly the topic you raised - combined with a similar question, related to yogic practices ("I can tell that practices are creating huge results in my body, mind and life - so isn't it fair to say that these have value?" <-- Per Adya's ongoing assertions that ultimately, they don't ... but [anyone who may be feeling confused and/or apoplectic ... hang on; there's a highly-conscious reason for this ... ]
Adya's response to this woman [who asked the question referenced above] was:
"Yogic practices and spiritual experiences can produce marvelous results; your physical, mental and emotional health can improve, your energy channels can open, you can have interesting visions and other experiences, you can raise kundalini ... all of that is great; truly --- just don't let yourself be fooled into thinking that they have anything to do with enlightenment!"
Many people attending had obvious reactions (per facial expressions, attendant sputterage, etc. ), ranging from, "Huh??", to "Grrr!", to "Oh, wow - guess I'll give my yoga mat away ...", to "Darn ... and I thought this dude was enlightened! Next ...!"
As In: It was exactly the ego-party that Adya intended to create, with his ultimately very true comment (and quick context-pertinent aside: I am saying this as a person who has what I feel is a significant degree of devotion to daily yogic practices - specifically AYP, and who, per my Forum moniker, chants daily with enthusiasm and devotion to various members of the Monotheon (as opposed to "Pantheon" ) of the Sanatana Dharma (aka "Hinduism" / Yoga) - such as Krishna, Shiva, Durga, Parvati, Kali, Shakti, Ganesha, Hanuman, etc. etc. etc. -- etc. ).
As Adya was alluding (and later clarified, per the following info), and as I personally experience -- it's a matter of understanding that the map is not the territory (though, as Yogani helpfully points out in his response --- the territory does determine the design of the map!)
If your goal is to get to New York, the map you have, and the vehicle(s) you use can both make a significant difference to the quality and rate of your journey -- but neither have any direct bearing whatsoever on the experience of being in New York.
As each of us progresses in yoga, we experience that life takes place on far more than just the physical plane -- and this isn't based on any belief or conditioning, but rather direct, replicable experience(s) regarding the nature of our inner realms.
The first of these other planes is (except in rare cases where things happen differently; not much is 100% universal in the yogic realm - but there's a lot that's 95%+ -- which is what I'm speaking of, here) the Astral / Etheric ... it is the next plane "more subtle" from the physical, and is tied to sexuality, emotions and subtle forms (i.e. gods and goddesses, disembodied beings, so on and so forth ... ad infinitum, etc. etc.)
As we move from sole physical perception and orientation, experiencing life via our first (root / Muladhara) chakra - the "next stop" is the plane mentioned above, which is tied to the second / Svadisthana chakra (and please note: I am well aware, in saying this, that the chakra system and the "map" of the various subtle planes ... are maps and sets of symbols --- part of my point is that, as Yogani mentioned - experiences influence the nature and symbols of the maps - as is the case here, with the Astral plane).
The reason I mention this plane specifically, is that it is often the one we encounter when we are least ready for it ... and it is the plane which contains all the forms we're speaking of in this dialog (visions of Kwan Yin, Mary, or other gods and goddesses) - and, almost always ... by the time we get past it, into even more subtle planes - we're advanced enough yogically, to know what we're dealing with ... for instance, by the time we experience the archetypes of the Mental planes directly, we know we're dealing with the collective archetypes of humanity (Jung's "Collective Unconscious") - and aren't in a lot of danger of being confused or distracted.
However, on the Astral planes, many people have gotten very, very lost ("Oh My God, Jesus is real - and he spoke to me! Therefore, I'm his prophet!") -- and just as physical reality can seem oh-so-real (and sometimes should ... street-crossing being an applicable example ... ) - the astral realms can be experienced as so (relatively) real ... that a given sadhaka (regardless of spiritual path or religion ... they may not call themselves a sadhaka) figuratively sets up camp there ... and yogic progress ceases, possibly for a very (very --- Very) long time (as in: please keep your eyes open, your arms and hands at your side, and your heart oriented toward the star of Realization at all times - and please don't feed the animals, unless you're up for several Yugas of unplanned diversion ...)
Even Ramakrishna had to get past his head-over-heels mega-meta-romance with Divine Mother -- and only then (in transcending the very relationship which brought him to the doorway of Realization) did he come to know her (anew, in many, many ongoing moments of literally unspeakable ecstasy and infinite loving silence).
As Adyashanti said (in explaining what he meant, with respect to his comments referenced above), "Basically, you can't take your baggage with you -- 'all luggage must be checked' -- and it's critical to remember that 'that which gets you to the doorway' is not that which allows you to experience what is on the other side - the Reality side - Enlightenment".
(And this is a guy, FYI, who did over fifteen years of hardcore Zen - until, as he describes in his book Emptiness Dancing, "Oops - I awakened out of Zen, too!")
And by the way - if there's any curiosity related to Adya's name (Adyashanti isn't exactly a traditional Zen moniker -- as a Non-Dual spiritual name, it's more reminiscent of Kashmiri Shaivism, aka Tantra - than Zen) -- Adya says of himself, and his name, "There was a lot I liked about the yogic traditions, and a lot I liked about Zen -- so I split the difference, and became a 'Zen Guru'!"
(Said very tongue-in-cheek, of course!)
And so, "in summary" (related to this topic of whether our minds pre-determine our experiences), the answer is a resoundingly clear "kinda yes, kinda no" - but the important part is:
When we arrive in "New York" --- we disembark the airplane, yes?
As Patanjali so eloquently states in Yoga Sutra I.2 "Yogash Chitta-Vrtti-NirodhaH" - "Yoga* is the control of the oscillations of the mind-field".
*The union that is Yoga, being defined by Rishi / commentators of the Yoga Sutras, such as Vyasa as Samadhi - or as we AYPers would say: Inner Silence.
When all (all - the vast quantity and subtleties of which have driven the creation of all religions, spiritual "maps" and spiritual systems) the oscillations of the mind-field cease ... and our Mind / Intellect (BuddhiH) becomes as still and smooth as the surface of a pristine lake ... only then can the Light of Self (or Non-Self, if you prefer! ) be reflected without distortion - and only then can we experience Reality as it is: as we are.
This is Realization: experiencing ourself as that which is ever changeless ... as THIS.
(Ayam Atma Brahma - "This Self is Brahman" <- as you may known, "Brahman" is the yogic map symbol for All That Is / Isn't, the Unmanifest and Manifest - and should not be confused with the creation deity-symbol Brahma, who along with Vishnu and Shiva, comprise the Trinity of the Sanatana Dharma - and who are all aspects / portions / facets of Brahman, just as we each / all are, in Reality.)
(And if you haven't figured it out by now, Mike ... I'm the "other 5000 word guy", here in the AYP Forum .... "please ta meetcha!" )
And though this was not a brief post - I do feel it's an important discussion, and wanted to convey amount and type of information accordingly -- and I sincerely hope it's helpful to you, and everyone reading.
And cutting "back" to the chase for just a moment, to be sure my (personal opinion / experience) conclusion is clear:
Our individual manifestation of deity-related (or other) visions arises both from experiences of those who have gone before (as Yogani points out), and from pre-set expectations (as many of us have become aware, as our own awareness has expanded) --- and such things can be either a useful tool, or a major, path-aborting distraction - depending upon what we do / interpret as a result of any such experiences ... again: even Ramakrishna was in a dangerous spot, temporarily, due to his laser-focused devotion to Divine Mother (Ma Kali) -- but She / his bhakti (devotion) - also served as the supersonic jet, which helped to "get him there" -- to Nirvana / Enlightenment / Self / Non-Self / THIS.
As a final "FYI" - the Yoga Sutras speak of the Prakrti-Layas - the yogis who became so advanced, and attained so many siddhis (miraculous powers), that they literally became gods of their own Universes - and just as God is said to be in all things, these yogis' consciousness permeated and pervaded every single atom in these Universes which they created -- via the powers attained by their yogic practices.
And it is probably pertinent to point out:
The Yoga Sutras speak of these Universe-ruling Yogi-Gods - these Prakrti-Layas -- with pity and disdain.
The Prakrti-Layas are held up as examples of yogis who missed the mark / target of Realization, and got distracted in the backwaters of the oscillations of the mind-field ... the evolutes of Prakrti -- and they are mentioned in the Yoga Sutras as a warning.
But why?? These guys are Gods, right?
Right --- however --- even being the God of your own Universe is nothing - nothing - in comparison with the Realization that Atman is Brahman - that each and all of us is THIS - All That Is, and That Which Contains and Imbues It.
Even Universes fade away ... the Self / Not-Self / This ... does not.
Nothing Real Can Be Threatened
Nothing Unreal Exists
Herein Lies the Peace of God
-- A Course in Miracles
Good to meet you, Mike - and thanks again for the great post / dialog!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Feb 15 2007 03:02:27 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 3:19:10 PM
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*standing up applauding*
I laughed and nodded my way through this post! Thank you, Kirtan! This part was especially refreshening to read:
quote:
However, on the Astral planes, many people have gotten very, very lost ("Oh My God, Jesus is real - and he spoke to me! Therefore, I'm his prophet!") -- and just as physical reality can seem oh-so-real (and sometimes should ... street-crossing being an applicable example ... ) - the astral realms can be experienced as so (relatively) real ... that a given sadhaka (regardless of spiritual path or religion ... they may not call themselves a sadhaka) figuratively sets up camp there ... and yogic progress ceases, possibly for a very (very --- Very) long time (as in: please keep your eyes open, your arms and hands at your side, and your heart oriented toward the star of Realization at all times - and please don't feed the animals, unless you're up for several Yugas of unplanned diversion ...)
It would bring so many more talented and gifted persons so much quicker forward if they got this information! I am grateful I found this forum before I was dragged into the astral world fair ground attraction!
Great post and great topic! |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 3:30:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
*standing up applauding*
I laughed and nodded my way through this post! Thank you, Kirtan! This part was especially refreshening to read:
quote:
However, on the Astral planes, many people have gotten very, very lost ("Oh My God, Jesus is real - and he spoke to me! Therefore, I'm his prophet!") -- and just as physical reality can seem oh-so-real (and sometimes should ... street-crossing being an applicable example ... ) - the astral realms can be experienced as so (relatively) real ... that a given sadhaka (regardless of spiritual path or religion ... they may not call themselves a sadhaka) figuratively sets up camp there ... and yogic progress ceases, possibly for a very (very --- Very) long time (as in: please keep your eyes open, your arms and hands at your side, and your heart oriented toward the star of Realization at all times - and please don't feed the animals, unless you're up for several Yugas of unplanned diversion ...)
It would bring so many more talented and gifted persons so much quicker forward if they got this information! I am grateful I found this forum before I was dragged into the astral world fair ground attraction!
Great post and great topic!
Thanks, EMC!
(Humble Bow)
However - very, very truly: it's folks like Yogani, Adyashanti, Patanjali - and, of course - the collective wisdom of this Forum, and of other awesome teachers .... who deserve the credit.
Without the teachings of Yogani and Adyashanti specifically, I don't know that I'd be in a place (in fact, I doubt I would) - to have had the direct experience, to be able to speak confidently on the matters I addressed in my post, above.
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 5:36:34 PM
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Interesting discussion.
In our group meditation there are a couple of people who see spirits in the room on occasion.
One guy saw an old man come up to him dressed in a brown cardigan with buttons, looked at him and passed on.
At the end of the meditation we discussed this and it turned out that the father of another in the group died recently and wore a cardigan fitting that description most of the time.
The same person has been going through a lot recently and we included a dedication for her in the meditation.
Where would this fit in, probably lower beings, but is it conditioning? don't see how.
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blujett8
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2007 : 8:21:53 PM
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quote:
(as in: please keep your eyes open, your arms and hands at your side, and your heart oriented toward the star of Realization at all times - and please don't feed the animals, unless you're up for several Yugas of unplanned diversion ...)
hahaha LMAO !!! thanks for this, kirtanman.....great post all around; the laugh is always the best part....
~Heather
(I too am planning a cross country trip/relocation....PHL to portland OR...I leave 3rd wk in march) |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2007 : 02:59:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by blujett8
quote:
(as in: please keep your eyes open, your arms and hands at your side, and your heart oriented toward the star of Realization at all times - and please don't feed the animals, unless you're up for several Yugas of unplanned diversion ...)
hahaha LMAO !!! thanks for this, kirtanman.....great post all around; the laugh is always the best part....
~Heather
(I too am planning a cross country trip/relocation....PHL to portland OR...I leave 3rd wk in march)
Thanks, Heather ---- I'm going the exact other way:
SJC (San Jose, CA) to ATL (Atlanta, GA) ... specifically, semi-rural point about 30 mins. south of ATL -- approx. Feb 16, +/- 24 hrs. or so.
Have a good move!
Peace & Namaste,
Kirtanman |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2007 : 09:20:10 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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