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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 12:26:47 PM
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I think this is really really important. It's something I keep forgetting, over and over again. So I'm posting it here as much as a reminder for myself as for others.
It should be abundantly clear from a read through this thread: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....TOPIC_ID=742 that I'm sort of unraveling. Not in the sense of insanity or dysfunction, but that I've let my practice slacken, and have lost the "smoothness in the world and with relationships" Yogani writes about so much (note: you don't need to go read that thread for purposes of this posting).
I've been, for the past few months, at a surreal point in my practice. If my practice is regular, I tip just over the edge into lots of what Yogani describes. It's a state of being where I don't feel anything lacking, and I can accept the universe as-is without shielding, recoiling, or grabbing. No more setting myself apart from it all. It's not enlightenment, but it's a state where I don't care about enlightenment 'cuz I don't feel like I'm lacking anything! All those corny phrases - "it's all good", "let go, let god", "go with the flow", etc etc apply. Which is miraculous, because my personality has never been like that (thanks, AYP!).
BUT! If I miss just one or two practice sessions, the old stuff bubbles up again very quickly. It's like the Twilight Zone. First I get anxiety. Then, a few days later, I get anger, then I get cravings, then I start pissing off my friends, then I fall into the depression of my youth. A week or two of little or no practice seems to "bring it all back." Which leaves me extra distraught with the feeling that the yoga was nothing but a thin, superficial veneer applied over a cesspool of problems that were never really "solved."
But that's wrong...it's the worldly view. Yoga's not self help. It's not about fixing one's problems in everyday life and becoming perfect (I love your nails!). It's about surrendering to What Is. It's about loosening the bonds of attachment and existing beyond the mind, which judges everything good/bad, want/don't want.
As we practice, the things we've always attached to (or repelled from) don't go away. They're always there. We just change our attitude toward them. So if you lapse and backtrack and notice you're entangled, what matters is that you NOTICED! This proves that the yoga wasn't for naught. You no longer accept the misery of everyday existence, it's more like revisiting a familiar nightmare than being locked down in an inescapable prison. Even if you've fallen into an old pattern, it's on a completely different basis after yoga.
Of course, I don't doubt that if you stop practicing for months or years that the mud will pile up so thick that you'll have less and less clarity about the nature of your bondage. But I practiced last night, and again this morning, and it's equally surreal how quickly things clear up.
Best advice: don't slack in your practice, so none of this is an issue!!
Now the question of why I allow it to slacken is another thing. Where does the impulse to not feel bliss come from? Why does there seem to be an anti-bhakti force (thankfully weaker than bhakti) in my subconscious, ready to derail all this? Perhaps this is the true nature of the demons the Christians (and others) write about. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 20 2006 12:33:00 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 2:00:55 PM
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| Jim, this reminds me of iIengars admonition to never miss a day of pranayama practice. He would say that if you miss a day that you will start again as a beginner. While perhaps it is an extreme view I would say that a few days do make a big different and that this was deeply ingrained in me from my early days of yoga. Fortunately with the twice a day practice of AYP you have a little latitude if you skip a practice session without missing a day. That is how I do it. I will occasionally skip a practice session if there is a good reason but never miss a day even if it means a half assed practice on the rare occasion. There is much to be said for continuity and even if it seems slightly neurotic it really makes a difference. In my own life I am currently going through a long dragged out divorce that has been in process for the past year and a half. My job is not very exciting and is constantly in jeopardy do to forces beyond my control and am not making much money beyond paying the bills. My practice is and has been the cornersone of my day. How has my mental and emotional state been through all this? Remarkably good! I feel basically sane and emotionally fairly well balanced which if you know my life history is not that usual and rather surprising considering the circumstances. I feel more integrated than at any previous time in my life. I believe that the steady practice of AYP has been significantly responsible for my general sense of well being under very difficult circumstances so as always I encourage everyone to be steady in practice! |
Edited by - Victor on Jan 20 2006 2:02:57 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 5:18:49 PM
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quote:
Jim wrote:
"BUT! If I miss just one or two practice sessions, the old stuff bubbles up again very quickly. It's like the Twilight Zone. First I get anxiety. Then, a few days later, I get anger, then I get cravings, then I start pissing off my friends, then I fall into the depression of my youth. A week or two of little or no practice seems to "bring it all back." Which leaves me extra distraught with the feeling that the yoga was nothing but a thin, superficial veneer applied over a cesspool of problems that were never really "solved."
But that's wrong...it's the worldly view. Yoga's not self help. It's not about fixing one's problems in everyday life and becoming perfect (I love your nails!). It's about surrendering to What Is. It's about loosening the bonds of attachment and existing beyond the mind, which judges everything good/bad, want/don't want."
I am new to AYP and read the above and also read about purification.
So, if as soon as you stop regular practice you revert back to your origional state of anger and anxiety etc. then what purification has been going on?
I understand that we are letting go of our attachments and creating a different space for ourselves, but surely this would have a permanent effect on what we have worked on already and that if we stopped we would be in a better place having transformed or purified or become less attached. Otherwise it would seem we just casting a cloak of supression over our issues.
This is just the observation of a beginner at AYP so I look forward to your replies.
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Edited by - Sparkle on Jan 20 2006 5:23:49 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 5:24:40 PM
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| that is a very good observation, Sparkle. Personally I beleive that it may be a combination of permenant and temproary. the purification is cululative and goes deep but on the other hand just because skipping bathing will let you get dirty again doesn't mena that bathing is a bad idea. i can't personally say because i never missed enough practice to see what would happen. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 5:45:30 PM
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Sparkle,
there are different 'layers' or levels of 'stress', or 'karmas' or 'crud' or whatever you want to call it. The cleaning process has both a short-term aspect (related to the removal of 'shallow stress' ) and a usually long-term aspect (related to the removal of 'deep stress'), and can people experience them both differently.
Jim apparently experiences a very profound short-term cleaning, which removes significant layers of 'shallow' stress, which, if he stops practicing, comes back fairly quickly at this point. Over the years (if he is a good yogi and does what he tells himself  ), then the long-term aspect will remove the 'deep stress'. The removal of 'deep stress' has permanent effects. It grows the personality. As more and more 'deep stress' is removed, the 'shallow stress' will start to come back more and more slowly.
It takes time for the change to become permanent.
There are a few twists on this: one is this: While the meditation process can dissolve the deep knots over time, and entirely gradually, it can also precipitate the removal of the 'deep stress' in discrete lumps.
Much like a house (representing a knot, or 'deep stress' ) could be, on the one hand, taken down gradually and smoothly, board by board, so it gets smaller every day or, on the other hand, termites could work on the foundation and nothing seems to happen until suddenly the whole thing falls down at once in a gale.
So strong permanent spiritual transitions can also be sudden to manifest, while they were in fact being established gradually for a long time.
Some knots in your being may fall off in the smooth way, some in the discrete way.
Also notice further consolation for backtrackers:
Jim said:
You no longer accept the misery of everyday existence, it's more like revisiting a familiar nightmare than being locked down in an inescapable prison. Even if you've fallen into an old pattern, it's on a completely different basis after yoga.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 20 2006 6:01:02 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 5:57:33 PM
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It's worth remembering that 'getting in touch' for even a very short time is a lot better than skipping entirely. Here's one that I remembered from the archives, because it is picturesque:
J&K said:
I have a friend who's a professional violinist, who typically practices many hours per day. On days when he absolutely doesn't have time to practice, he at least opens his case, takes out the instrument, and "gets in touch" by playing even just a single note (with great immersive concentration). That, to her, is vastly different from "skipping a day."
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 6:03:58 PM
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| Thanks David, you beautifully articulated what I briefly described. IThat was exactly what I was trying to say |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 6:11:20 PM
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quote:
So, if as soon as you stop regular practice you revert back to your origional state of anger and anxiety etc. then what purification has been going on?
Sparkle, my posting was sort of a hodgepodge (due to a combination of a high fever and a slackened practice!). But the answer's in there. In fact, that was the point of my writing. I regret that I didn't do a good enough job to make my point clearly (I mean it.....I see how scattered it was). But it's in there. Read it a couple more times, especially about reentering a bad dream as opposed to locking down into an inescapable prison. The purification is what makes that distinction possible. And it's a huge huge distinction. |
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yogani99
USA
153 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 6:17:31 PM
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Hi All:
Here is what I wrote on this earlier today. Common threads in the postings here. Experiences in common, which is confirmation.
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Hi Jim:
Ah, but you are noticing. Do you feel you can watch all of this a little clearer than before? That is the "keeper." Our practices may give us the illusion of instant relief from the woes of mundane life. It's a nice side benefit. But the real benefit is found in what has been permanently stabilized whether we are practicing or not -- inner silence.
Well, it is never enough, so we loath stopping once we have tasted the nectar of our inner possibilities, no matter how much inner silence we have to keep. Ultimately, that is why John Wilder ended up doing what he did -- or allowing it to happen to him is a better way of putting it. Butterflies are free, and he would settle for nothing less...
Just remember that practices are not all or nothing. Honoring the habit is the first step. That takes a few minutes twice per day. We all have to eat. We all have to sleep. We all have to brush our teeth. And we all have to evolve... There is time enough in the day for all of these. Some guerrilla yoga tactics can help when we are living in the corporate jungle. See http://www.aypsite.org/209.html
And, by all means, side-step the energy-wasting skirmishes in life if possible. That means adopting a flexible point of view on everything. That too is a characteristic of rising inner silence. Until it fully blooms, Ruiz's "Four Agreements" can be helpful. As inner silence blooms, the agreements (yama/niyama) become automatic.
The guru is in you.
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2006 : 11:48:33 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~ quote:
Originally posted by yogani99
Hi All:
And, by all means, side-step the energy-wasting skirmishes in life if possible.
"As Long as your urge for truth affects your daily life, all is well with you. Live your life without hurting anybody. Harmlessness is the most powerful form of yoga and it will take you speedily to your goal..." Sri Nisargadatta Maharaji
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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Edited by - Frank-in-SanDiego on Jan 23 2006 9:27:05 PM |
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mystiq
India
62 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2006 : 01:30:24 AM
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Dear friends I do not agree to the view that stopping practice for a day or few makes one a beginer at the next session. Whatever practice that is done I think is a bank balance. The fact that Jim noticed the changes when he stopped for a few days shows increasing levels of identification with the witnessing process, which would not have happened had one not been a practitioner. As for cleaning there is a lot of accumulated stuff which we go deep into and clean during our sessions and the other short cut method is to try and not identify with this accumulated junk. Easier said than done though.
mystiq |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2006 : 04:55:29 AM
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I asked the question when in India. 'If one is enlightened then why meditate further?' to which I was told ' to remove the daily crud we pick up' which is a continuous process is it not? IMHO the effectd are permanent but remember that even 20 years is not a long time on the path to enlightenment for some.Depends on how much rubbish we need to clear and as Yogani says the experiences don't count but the inner silence does.
L&L
Dave
'the mind can see further than the eyes' |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2006 : 07:46:10 AM
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Thanks folks
As a person who supressed his feelings for most of his life, even through years of meditation, the possibility of this is always on my mind in relation to any practice.
Ken Wilber explained this process very well in his book "Grace and Grit" when he described how, even though he had attained samadhi as indicated by a Zen Master, the energy had somehow been by-passing his second chakra and thus there was no purification at that level. It was only when he was faced with a very difficult life and death situation that the feelings suddenly surfaced.
I would guess that the same thing was happening to me for years. Now that I am more in touch with my feelings I can often feel the dissolution or transformation of the feelings in meditation.
But I guess it was all part of the journey and as David said, it might have been a scenario like the house and the termites, where not much appeared to be happening at a feeling level but it required a lot of preparation and eating away at the foundations to prepare me for the inevitable and painful breakthrough - the collapse of the house.
Thanks again for the responses
Sparkle
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2006 : 4:21:41 PM
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Hari Om Tat Sat
~~~~~~~~~~~
quote:
Originally posted by mystiq
[brI do not agree to the view that stopping practice for a day or few makes one a beginer at the next session.
Hello Mystiq ( all)
It's said in the Gita that 'no effort is ever lost' when Arjuna asks Krsna, what of the practitioner that stops? what of him? Krsna points out that individual picks up where s/he left off. This is more directed towards the sadhu that passes on. Krsna mentions where that person may even be born ( into a family of Brahmins, or Sadhus, etc) for the fortunate reason of continuing their pursuit of the SELF. How intelligent this whole system is!
Krsna states:
Having attained to the worlds of the righteous and, having dwelt there for everlasting years, he who fell from Yoga is reborn in the house of the pure and wealthy.
Praapya punyakritaam lokaanushetwaa shaashwateeh samaah;
Shucheenaam shreemataam gehe yogabhrashto’bhijaayate.
Bhagavad Gita, Chapt 6, The Yoga Of Meditation
Frank In San Diego
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2006 : 11:16:03 AM
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mystiq said:
Dear friends I do not agree to the view that stopping practice for a day or few makes one a beginer at the next session.
Agreed. This kind of thing is really an 'admonition' (admonition = counsel or warning against fault or oversight) and admonitions are teaching devices and are often wildly exaggerated and not at all literally correct. That idea is just a very-heavy-duty way of trying to keep you consistent in the practice.
It's an exaggeration of a real truth though --- if you slacken off entirely and drop all your practice in an untimely way, you'll surely become like a beginner eventually.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 23 2006 11:19:04 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2006 : 4:52:48 PM
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| I've found that when I skip practices for a short while (no longer than a week), when I return to them, there is renewed energy. Most people experience this in other activities as well. When athletes take a short break, they give their muscles a chance to rebuild, and return stronger; when creative people return to their work, they often have new insights. Taking a break allows room for inspiration or, at the very least, it gives a measure to any progress we may have made. (I realize that 'progress' is antithetical to meditation, but we all like to know that our practices are working!) |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2006 : 09:25:52 AM
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There is a huge diff between never having practiced and having practiced and lapsed. The former means vague recognition that things are not quite what they should be, but you feel hopelessly and summarily locked into your pain , separateness, and disenchantment. The latter is worse (because you more keenly see and understand the delusion - not just faint intuition! - and the pointlessness of the pain and separateness) but it's also better- because you see it as nothing more than a dream. It's awful to be in that state, but you know you're not imprisoned, you're just stuck for a minute (so long as you get going again ASAP!).
Now that I've resumed steady practice, a few updated thoughts:
Relaunching at first felt like I was drilling through new outcroppings of all the granite I'd previously cleared away (if I was younger and more impatient, I might have gotten disconsolate, but I've learned patience). I speedily ran through many of the same sorts of blocks and distractions. But after the first few practice sessions, it felt more like breaking through thin ice. Satisfying great splashy cracks through superficial (but wide) structures. yet. The opening is nicer, though less dramatic/ecstatic than the first time, because it feels even more like coming home. And it's bringing some fresh bonuses this time.
A missed practice session definitely makes a diff. A few missed ones can land you overnight in nightmaresville. This was a couple weeks lapse, and I'm thinking much more than that would have allowed a whole lot of renewed build-up of what I've been trying to clear away.
This is MY report, though. I have no reason to think we all muck up (or clear our muck) at the same rate. But hopefully the above is a useful approximate yardstick. I hope this thread is useful for others who find themselves in this situation. Don't let it be like a lapsed diet, where self-loathing causes you to just go further and further the other way. With dieting, equal effort is required to re-lose every pound previously lost. With practices, it's easier to catch back up. Just don't let it go too long. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 26 2006 09:31:01 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2006 : 09:27:01 AM
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| Woops, one more thing. There's a small advantage to stopping/starting (though it doesn't by any means make it "worth" lapsing): my expectations of what meditation should feel like and the state it should put me in have been erased. I'm a lot fresher and more open. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 26 2006 09:27:31 AM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 26 2006 : 11:22:54 AM
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Its good to see you practicing again Jim, I know how you love it and you have had much to share from your experience for the rest of us.
I also want to mention that the severe admonitions from Iyengar were specifically about pranayama, I don't believe that such concerns are as serious in meditation or asana for that matter. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 9:11:17 PM
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A few later thoughts to tag on.
First, after this one large lapse (coming after some smaller ones), I think I have a rule of thumb. It takes me about 3 to 4 times the length of the lapse to get back. Others may be faster/slower to decay and recoup. But I can say pretty decisively that 1. you don't really have to start quite from scratch, but 2. you definitely do pay a steep price.
One thing I'd like to note: the backtracking is very subtle. We're all so accustomed to living a life of grasping and anxiety that we can revert quite far to that before we notice how far we've devolved. I'm starting to get back to The Flow again, and I can see quite clearly how much mud had splattered all over my windshield (a lot!!). It didn't feel that dramatic at the time. The cleaning (via AYP, etc) feels dramatic. The backtracking feels normal. Beware of this, because it's like quicksand.
Or, better, just don't stop practicing so it's not an issue!
I hope all this is helpful to someone one day. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 9:17:32 PM
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| It's like brushing your teeth. A little brushing every day produces fantastic results. On-and-off brushing produces fairly dismal results. And if you let it go, you can stand there and brush and brush and brush, but it's not going to help anything (at least not any time soon). |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 9:25:48 PM
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| Sounds exactly right to me. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2006 : 10:37:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
First, after this one large lapse (coming after some smaller ones), I think I have a rule of thumb. It takes me about 3 to 4 times the length of the lapse to get back.
No. It takes much, much longer. Things seem superficially back to normal in meditation in 3-4 times the gap, but there's subtler, more insidious buildup.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2006 : 11:09:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Things seem superficially back to normal in meditation in 3-4 times the gap, but there's subtler, more insidious buildup.
Interesting, Jim. Would you like to elaborate a little on this? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2006 : 11:22:49 AM
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I've been very diligently re-engaged in practice for three months now. It's going well, I feel like I can open up pretty fully and quickly. And my kundalni has reawakened (it had actually gone dormant while I had been diligently practicing before, so I'm in that sense ahead of where I was).
But I was experiencing what I called "slipperiness" before. My prana didn't stick anywhere, I could move it or let it move effortlessly. Spinal breathing wasn't like sucking up thick fluid through a thin straw, it was more like turning on a light saber. And only now, after 3 months of practice coming after a two week lapse, am I beginning to feel that slipperiness again. We don't understand how blocked we are until we become unblocked (in fact, we don't recognize the blocks as blocks, they seem "normal"). But after lapsing practice and regaining those blocks, I still wasn't fully aware of the blocks until the second unblocking. This, from my posting above, is, I think, a real good explanation:
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we're all so accustomed to living a life of grasping and anxiety that we can revert quite far to that before we notice how far we've devolved. I'm starting to get back to The Flow again, and I can see quite clearly how much mud had splattered all over my windshield (a lot!!). It didn't feel that dramatic at the time. The cleaning (via AYP, etc) feels dramatic. The backtracking feels normal. Beware of this, because it's like quicksand.
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I should note that none of this is scientific. Perhaps after my lapse, the mantra was working on different parts of me than before, so certain things cleared out before the intervening stuff was cleared. Who knows....you could go nuts trying to figure it all out. But this is for sure: lapsing practice is a baaad idea. |
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nandhi
USA
362 Posts |
Posted - Apr 20 2006 : 4:38:15 PM
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aum
thank you jim for wonderful posting!
the most beautiful flow is attained when space is given (as jim says, like brushing our teeth) for our daily union. like a drunkard who craves for the drink, when we wake up to find our body in the morning and crave to be the spirit, daily practice is love making in its way of life and its freedom to be spirit.
the greater need to preside from the mind peak and the enjoying of the process that attains the flow of the unfolding yogic practice is the heart's discipline.
guess each of us here share these sacred joys!
the eternal joys!
with folded hands!aum |
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Consolation for Backtrackers
