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Sanskritbliss
USA
11 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 24 2011 : 8:59:04 PM
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I have read everything I can find in the AYP books and forum about this problem I'm having with the mantra. Today was the worst. I am so used to doing either mindfulness meditation with the breath or hong sau with the breath that I cannot think the I AM mantra and breathe without a conflict. Bear in mind that I have been back to doing TM for over six weeks with this same issue and AYP for about the last week.
It was so frustrating this afternoon. I ended my meditation totally angry and irritated. My natural inclination is to breathe the mantra. But no, that is wrong. So if I fight that (yes, chose that word on purpose), then I end up holding my breath to ensure they aren't going together.
Please, please, if there is anyone out there who has converted from a breath meditation path, can you please help me figure out how to think the mantra without fighting with the breath? I'm sure that is why I am so agitated, vibrating, and anxious after meditation.
It is such a simple thing, so I can't figure out why I can't do it. I'm like one of those people who can't chew gum and walk at the same time.  I can't breathe and deliberately think the mantra at the same time on different "rhythms." So when I find they are synching up, I subconsciously stop breathing so I think the mantra not with the breath. AAARRRGGGHHHH
All my body wants is to sink into my breath as mantra. It is so soothing and easy for me. But I want this AYP Deep Meditation! I think there is some little key that I am missing, despite reading the book and site and forum.
Thank you for letting me vent. Any suggestions will be heartily welcome.
Susan
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Edited by - Sanskritbliss on Jul 24 2011 9:04:53 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2011 : 9:28:30 PM
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Hi Susan,
You are trying too hard and worrying about perfection too much. The general feeling of deep meditation should be relaxing and letting go of stress. It is better to let the mantra synchronize with breath than to stop breathing!
It doesn't hurt to do it wrong for a while, then gently work on one little correction at a time, all the while relaxing and releasing all tension. If it takes you months to do it right, it is better than stressing over doing it wrong! You will probably be doing meditation for a long time, a little bit twice per day, so you have plenty of time to make corrections without worry.
So just decide to not worry about making corrections at first. Do the closest approximation of deep meditation you can while still relaxing.
When you get that down, you can pick one little correction at a time,
and gently try without interrupting your peace, just a little here and there, not trying very hard. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jul 24 2011 9:32:20 PM |
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Sanskritbliss
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2011 : 10:27:26 PM
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Thanks. That was reassuring. I appreciate your idea. And I will use your advice.
But the problem is that I am concerned that I will ingrain the following the breath "habit" even deeper by allowing the mantra to go with the breath.
Thank you again.
Susan |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2011 : 10:37:08 PM
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The first time I meditated, there were birds singing outside. It was mid-April. Spring was on its way, and the birds were just returning to our area. I just started singing the mantra in my head in tune with the birds. I didn't intend to... It just happened.
Then it developed into a descending melody: F#, E, D, C#, three octaves above middle C. My mind sang "ay" with the first note and "am" with the second note on the in-breath. Then "ay" again with the third note and "am" on the last note on the out-breath. The melody repeated for a while. Then the basses came in with a chant of "ayam" in time to the heartbeat. Then the mid-voices... I started listening to the mantra singing in my head and it all became very quiet -- just a whisper ayammmayammmayamm.
Three months later, I still hear the little descending melody of ayam in my head at first but it dissolves quickly into the whisper. Sometimes it's fast and sometimes it's really slow. Sometimes it's with the breath. Sometimes it's with the heartbeat. Sometimes it's faster than either. Sometimes is slower. But the variance in rhythm happened just in the last maybe three weeks. At first the "ayam" was with the breath. Later the "ayam" was with the heartbeat. Now I just listen to it in whatever form it takes.
Yogani never mentioned "singing" the mantra in the head. I'm sure it's wrong, but it's just my way of doing it. Amazingly, it just fixed itself after a while, and I ended up in the right place after all.
I hope the story helps.
--Liz |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Jul 24 2011 10:50:03 PM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2011 : 09:15:00 AM
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Hi Susan,
I agree with the above, the mantra can sort itself out overtime. If the mantra synchronizes with the breath for now, that's what it does, no sense in fighting it, simply come (gently) back to the mantra anytime you notice this synchronization.
Also, whenever you notice yourself "checking" to see if you have succeeded in not synchronizing with the mantra, simply (gently) return to the mantra. This "checking" in on things can perpetuate the very thing you are trying to avoid.
Give yourself a few months of no "checking" in and you might notice at some point that you have transcended the breath, or that it has suspended naturally, yet the mantra repetition continued on.
If you don't find any freedom of this after several months and still find it frustrating, the longer AYP mantra enhancements might make for a mantra that doesn't coordinate very easily with the breath. Self-pacing consideration will likely need to me made if you go this route.
Best of luck!
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Sanskritbliss
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2011 : 7:53:07 PM
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It worked! Thank you all for your feedback. I am just letting the mantra do whatever it wants. So not fighting it. This morning was great. Tonight's meditation left me more shaky again, but I didn't do much with asanas tonight.
I am going to do some grounding tonight. But it was significantly better.
I am so grateful for your help.
Susan |
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jamuna
Australia
104 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2011 : 7:05:27 PM
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Hi Susan,
I practiced hong sau from a really young age and when I changed my practice to AYP I found not syncing the mantra with the breath really difficult as well, in fact I though for a while it might be impossible. I would say the advice to just stay easy and relaxed is good, in time it will work its self out. I tried a few things to help me transition that may help you and I will share them here however they may be slightly out of sync with the AYP procedure.
1. I would intentionally allow the chanting of each syllable of the mantra to go for several in out breaths.
2. I made greater effort see the breath as scenery and would favour the mantra when I noticed my attention was giving preference to the breath
Over time the habit broke but it took a while for me, (several months). |
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Sanskritbliss
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jul 29 2011 : 8:09:58 PM
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Thank you. That is very affirming. For me, your second suggestion has been working. Sometimes, it coordinates, but I just favor the mantra.
I really appreciate your comment as you have had a similar experience.
If you don't mind, can you share why you switched to AYP?
Susan |
Edited by - Sanskritbliss on Jul 29 2011 8:46:34 PM |
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jamuna
Australia
104 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2011 : 08:25:29 AM
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quote:
If you don't mind, can you share why you switched to AYP?
Susan
Hi Susan. There actually wasn't much invloved in the switch that might be helpful to others. It was really an accident I found the AYP content and my desire and decision to try the practices come largely from something about the sound of Yogani's voice. So I am sorry if that doesn't help you.
However now that I have given both options a trail I have found more spiritual enthusiasm coming from not being contained within a rigid organisation, although I would LOVE to have some fellow AYPers nearby to meditate with 
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Thouqht
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2011 : 5:53:59 PM
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I had the same problem! A slight tweak to my perception of the mantra really helped me out though. Instead of "making" the sound of the mantra in your head, try "listening" to it. I found that if I allowed my subconscious to produce the mantra, I no longer had to consciously produce the mantra, and the compulsion to coordinate my breathing and the mantra disappeared.
In doing this however, I found that the mantra will often change pitch, timbre, duration, and resonant quality automatically throughout the session. I figure that doesn't hurt anything though as long as the mantra is still going through your head with your attention on it. Who knows, it might even be better  |
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gnostica
Philippines
3 Posts |
Posted - Aug 22 2011 : 9:57:42 PM
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I'm having the same problem! I can't (at present) de-synchronize the breath and the mantra! Oh well, sometimes I can -- I mean, I do forget the breathing for some seconds with focus on mantra only. Anyway, I have not tried other meditation technique before this. This is probably because I sing too much.
But, anyway, all I can do right now to resolve it is to let it go as best I can. Anyway, I know it's working. I'm seeing the results.
I'll post if I've found a way. |
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whippoorwill
USA
450 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2011 : 07:29:06 AM
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Can you feel your heartbeat? If you can put the mantra on the heartbeat, it will free up the breath. Later on, the mantra just takes off on its own if you listen to it instead of mentally saying it. At least, it has worked for me that way. At first, the mantra was with the breath. Later, it went with the heartbeat, and after that, it just took off on its own. Hope this helps...
P.S. It just occurred to me that I could hear my heartbeat so well when I first started because I was wearing earplugs. I have a really noisy house, so I stuck earplugs in to give me a little extra boost for my concentration. That lasted a couple of weeks and then I didn't need them anymore. But while the earplugs were in, I could hear the heartbeat very prominently, and it was just natural to put the mantra to that. Then I took the earplugs out, and I couldn't hear the heartbeat so distinctly anymore. I think I started imagining the heartbeat, and I think that's when the mantra took off on on its own. |
Edited by - whippoorwill on Aug 23 2011 07:46:09 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2011 : 08:36:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gnostica
I'm having the same problem! I can't (at present) de-synchronize the breath and the mantra! Oh well, sometimes I can -- I mean, I do forget the breathing for some seconds with focus on mantra only. Anyway, I have not tried other meditation technique before this. This is probably because I sing too much.
But, anyway, all I can do right now to resolve it is to let it go as best I can. Anyway, I know it's working. I'm seeing the results.
I'll post if I've found a way.
Don't try....
Just move your attention to the mantra (like you said you are doing). The sync may stay forever... the point is to not consciously sync mantra and breath... whenever conscious of what is happening, be conscious of the mantra, when lost be it thoughts or samadhi it's fine, but when you consciously realize you are doing or focusing on anything but the mantra, gently , at whatever level you are at, come back to the mantra without evaluation. |
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Yonatan
Israel
849 Posts |
Posted - Aug 23 2011 : 09:15:16 AM
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Hi Susan, sounds great!!
Keep going and much luck |
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gnostica
Philippines
3 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2011 : 10:17:38 AM
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Hello all.
While meditating a while ago, this mantra vs breath problem occurred again. Then my Inner Self -- or my Mind, Inner Mind, etc. -- briefly told me something like: "Forget the "Rules". Do anything!" So I moved, shook, and scratched my body while reciting the mantra (in mind). Until my body rested, and the breath is forgotten! :)
After the meditation, I contemplated on what my mind was trying to tell me. I realized that -- in daily life, we do not notice our breath. Why? Because there is no "rule" about breathing in daily life! We just do it naturally. We can apply this to meditation. I think when we do Deep Meditation, we just treat it as a natural act with one simple rule -- "simply favor/return to the mantra" -- and not some sacred ritual which must conform to fifty divine laws!
In Deep Meditation, I think the "rules" other than "favor the mantra" is part of those "symptoms of purification" which we all undergo. So, I guess, we just allow these symptoms to occur -- move, scratch, breathe, stretch, etc. -- and to dissipate eventually.
No more getting annoyed! I shall breathe, move, scratch and stretch all I (or my mind) wants, and just "return to the mantra"!
Peace and Prosper!
D.D. |
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