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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 12:38:50 PM
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It's weird but after posting on 'freedoms from attachment' I had my own upset at work on Friday, followed by a few minor hassles that I normally hardly notice.
The result was that after doing DM I began to feel a mounting anger, the sort of thing I used to feel as a kid..........and I'm doing self enquiry and staying in the moment........and it just keeps on intensifying like I'm going to burst. So I went out for a walk, usually my wife would come with me, but I did not want the company and my mood got darker and far more intense and no matter how I tried to rationalise it, the emotion was running like a full blooded hurricane, tearing around my mind and through my body.
It lasted until well into the afternoon when suddenly it seemed to blow over. I'm saying 'it' because it seemed distinct from me in some way. I was unable to control the sheer anger and resentment, even though I knew that it was not real. It has left me feeling battered TBH like being in a fight.
What the hell happened ??? |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 4:12:04 PM
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You got angry.
DId you think i would lie to you? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 4:19:57 PM
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Something clearing out/purification.
Go ahead and feel it to it's fullest. I have experienced this at times.
Here is something I had written sometime back
quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Regarding anger, it does sound like purification, and although your practice does not seem like very loaded, it may help to self pace a bit.. maybe just 10 min meditation? Just till this phase passes.
Anger is a very powerful emotion and most people try and suppress it. If however, you do have the opportunity to be alone during one of these anger flashes, try and feel the anger to it's fullest.. don't suppress it in any way. Feel it, but very important.. don't make a story of it. So, while you feel the anger, just feel the pure energy of the feeling, but don't let your mind attach stories like I am angry, I am angry because life in unfair, my sister is irresponsible, my friend should not have to suffer like this, my sister should not drink and drive, she should care about herself and others who love her.. etc.. etc.. etc. (OK, maybe you don't have any of these thoughts, they are just suggestions, so you get the idea the kind of stories the mind makes). Feel the energy to its fullest with every cell in your body and along with that take the anger and offer it to your ishta, to the universe, the truth, god, a friend, someone close to you.. whoever/whatever you can feel a connection with. Let the anger die off on it's own. It will. It may come back.. like a wave.. do the same again till it subsides.. and again if it comes back. Don't bring it up with thoughts.. let it come up on its own. After awhile you will feel the intensity going down, till you wont feel it any more. This will help you get over this purification faster and to it's fullest.
Some posts that may help:
anger surges and suggestions
Ever Doubt your Inner Silence? |
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Parallax
USA
348 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2009 : 7:14:44 PM
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Karl,
Interesting post; I had the exact same experience on Friday!! Some minor inconveniences, a few hassles, nothing too major; but the anger was rolling like a freight train. I knew it was irrational, I knew none of it meant anything, I knew there was no reason to feel such intensity of emotion; but no matter how I tried to change my perspective and regain composure I couldn't reign it in. And of course all of the self judgement came...I should be feeling like this, this isn't me, I know better, etc etc which just added fuel to the fire 
And as you described it, in the evening it felt like it just blew over...I was sitting on the floor play with the kids and it just dissolved, the sun emerged from behind the cloud  ...today I feel just about back to "normal"
Shanti, thank you for your wisdom...your input was just what I was needing to hear...
Much love to you all
And
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 03:29:29 AM
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Shanti,
that post was very interesting. That is exactly what I did. The anger was triggered by the events at work and then built into a fireball and then I detached the event and the pure anger stayed in place until I let it out to the Universe.
This is counter intuitive to the work I do with NLP in which I detach the emotion from the event. The event stays because it is necessary to learn from it and it is the emotion that is considered to be the unreal/fabricated part of the process. Having said that, I would not try to dissolve appropriate anger, only the inappropriate anger after examining an event.
From my perspective, the anger was appropriate because the events at work have a direct bearing on my future over which I have little control. Having put my heart and soul into an organisation and had considerable success despite those that did not believe it was possible, it looks like we will be taken over by another company which effectively means I will be out of a job.
It's very confusing, maybe it's all part of training?
I said in a previous post
'Before enlightenment chop sticks, after enlightenment chop sticks', so how do you square 'during enlightenment chop sticks, during enlightenment have no sticks to chop'? I have always been a very proactive person, very independent (hmm this sounds like a Beatles song ) and very practical. My usual stance would be to fight this tooth and nail and I'm not sure how I do that without attachment?? or should I just trust to God this time and have no attachment to the situation at all ?
It's very much as Parallax says. You begin to feel a shame about the inability to use silence and the witness to overcome the anger trap. Doing time line therapy allows me to release this emotion and have a rationality around the event.......from one perspective the event exists and so does the emotion (Ignorance), from another the event was not real but the anger was(within Yoga practice), from another the even was real but not the emotion (NLP), or neither existed (enlightenment??).
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 06:12:08 AM
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You've just gotta let it be.
No amount of trying to hide from it, fix it, change it, heal it, is going to work in ultimately integrating and transcending it.
Allowing something to be what it is, feeling it fully without judgement, with presence.. that is Love. And its only love that will allow transformation. While you're stuck in your head doing the dualism dance of whats appropriate and inappropriate, feeding that underlying fear that deep down there is something monstrous about you, it won't shift.
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 06:21:14 AM
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I just think you have to be realistic sometimes. There are events in life that require anger no matter how detached you try to be. There may be some distance created between what happens in your life and how you react to it from practising meditation but i personally wouldn't expect myself not to continue to feel anger if i am realistically provoked. The anger is still there no matter how much detachment you achieve.
For example, the buddhist monk that immolated himself. I don't think i am wrong in suggesting that that act of protest was not precipitated by feelings of antagonism in some form or another. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 09:59:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
This is counter intuitive to the work I do with NLP in which I detach the emotion from the event. The event stays because it is necessary to learn from it and it is the emotion that is considered to be the unreal/fabricated part of the process. Having said that, I would not try to dissolve appropriate anger, only the inappropriate anger after examining an event.
From my perspective, the anger was appropriate because the events at work have a direct bearing on my future over which I have little control. Having put my heart and soul into an organisation and had considerable success despite those that did not believe it was possible, it looks like we will be taken over by another company which effectively means I will be out of a job.
It's very confusing, maybe it's all part of training?
I said in a previous post
'Before enlightenment chop sticks, after enlightenment chop sticks', so how do you square 'during enlightenment chop sticks, during enlightenment have no sticks to chop'? I have always been a very proactive person, very independent (hmm this sounds like a Beatles song) and very practical. My usual stance would be to fight this tooth and nail and I'm not sure how I do that without attachment?? or should I just trust to God this time and have no attachment to the situation at all ?
It's very much as Parallax says. You begin to feel a shame about the inability to use silence and the witness to overcome the anger trap. Doing time line therapy allows me to release this emotion and have a rationality around the event.......from one perspective the event exists and so does the emotion (Ignorance), from another the event was not real but the anger was(within Yoga practice), from another the even was real but not the emotion (NLP), or neither existed (enlightenment??).
Hi Karl,
Are you saying that it is OK to be angry because of the situation? ("From my perspective, the anger was appropriate because the events at work have a direct bearing on my future over which I have little control. Having put my heart and soul into an organisation and had considerable success despite those that did not believe it was possible, it looks like we will be taken over by another company which effectively means I will be out of a job.")
Anger is an energy movement. The word anger is only attached when the thoughts that are associated with the energy defines/labels the energy as anger.
I am not familiar with NLP, so maybe I am not the right person to help you here. However I speak from experience, and to me, when there is anger, it stays in place due to thoughts. As your mind dissolves more and more, anger does come up, but when you don't have thoughts reinforcing that emotion, it will arise and subside in matter of minutes. The anger will stay only as long as I let my thoughts feed it.
In this case losing your job, working hard to build yourself up to that position and lose that position because another company will take over your business... well, can you change the course of events? Can you make the other company go away? If you can, then yes fight for it. But getting angry because of the unfairness is not going to stop the other company form taking your business over is it? You think the other company cares if you are angry? Who is suffering by keeping the thoughts of unfairness in the heart?
I will quote a lovely post from Carson. I remember him suffering because of how unfairly the homeless shelter he was working with had treated him. He was trying to make sense of it all. This post of his, shows how when in the middle of something, we don't see the big picture.
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=5844#52867
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
It was right around this time that I was given the opportunity to take a part time job at a homeless shelter. I still had my day job, but in the evenings I was working with the homeless and it made me feel really good about myself (first clue that this was not meant to last long term). I began as time wore on to feel that I was meant to switch careers and that I should be working full time at the homeless shelter. They wanted me to do this as well. They offered me a job full time, except it was on the night shift which I didn't want to work. So I waited and hoped that they would offer me a position on the day shift. All the while I still worked my day job at GE with the expectation that I would soon be quitting to persue a more "spiritual" career. Well, as Life had it, this is not what was meant to be. I was given the job at the Homeless shelter to help me learn to not attach to my job(I was fired after the Program Director found out I was an ex-heroin addict and took exception to the fact that I was teaching yoga and meditation to the homeless despite this...I had not hid the fact that I was an ex-addict, she just hadn't clued in until a certain conversation occured)....to not identify my BEING with what I do for a living. This was a hard lesson to learn as that job made me feel so darn good about myself (EGO!!!) and I really enjoyed it and was very good at what I was doing. But in the end, I wasn't meant to switch jobs....not yet anyways. I still work for GE today, and the longer I am here and the more stable my practice set becomes, the more I realize WHY I am still here. This job at GE affords me a lot of opportunities I would not otherwise have. At this job I am able to spend a lot of my day focussing on yoga.....I am able to help people here......I am able to inquire into all the situations that happen here that cause me distress.....there is growth because of this job.
I am not saying you should lose your job. If there is anything you can do to prevent that from happening, you should definitely do (I will keep you in my samyama if you'd like for a few days). All yoga says is, give it your best, but don't attach to the outcome of this fight. Also, by getting angry you are definitely not helping anything. So when anger comes up, watch the thoughts that are keeping the anger in place and either drop those thoughts.. and if that is not possible, do some inquiry into them.. or NLP maybe(?).
quote:
You begin to feel a shame about the inability to use silence and the witness to overcome the anger trap.
You cannot use the silence.. you have to let the silence use you.. You cannot grasp silence, just like you cannot grasp a river.. you can only let it flow by removing the thought obstructions. The shame factor is the mind taking you to task for not being able to quieten it (the mind) in order to have access to the silence. Does that make sense? It's like a child punishing a parent for not disciplining him/her. The mind is a wonderful servant but a rotten master. Don't let your mind govern you. See it for what it is.. a servant.. make it work for you to find a way to keep your job, or find something better... don't let it govern you with anger, shame, frustrations, despair.
Before enlightenment chop wood, after enlightenment chop wood.. Yes.. but the fact is, for most, there is no mid point when you "are" enlightened and when you "are not" enlightened. Every one is enlightened... but the enlightenment is covered with layers of muck. With practice we are taking layers of this muck out. So we have a bit more access to enlightenment now than we did when we started our practice... and will continue to be so as we keep going. We will just be seeing more and more of our enlightened nature as we continue. It does not mean there is a point where we will feel.. ahhh this is it.. now i am enlightened. If ever there is a point we do feel enlightened.. that is not it... and there is no it.. there is just more seeing our enlightenment but there is always more. The word enlightenment should actually be enlightening.. it is a never ending, ongoing process.. So yes, we will be chopping wood and carrying water for a long time.. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 10:03:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I just think you have to be realistic sometimes. There are events in life that require anger no matter how detached you try to be.
Anger is not a requirement; it is a reaction. Unless it is artificially generated to control unruly people.
But they are talking about a different kind of anger here. It is anger that wasn't provoked. It happens as a result of purification of the nervous system.
I think it is possible that it was stored anger. Anger is stored in the body when you suppress it instead of experiencing it. When you release stored anger it often manifests as being angry about very little things that would normally not bother you.
That happens because it is just pure anger without a reason, and your mind looks for a reason and can't find anything substantial.
Shanti is talking about bypassing that 'looking' process.
PS
Oops I cross posted with you Shanti.
Yes, anger is a tool meant to motivate you to action.
I like "enlightening"!
Yes, it's not good to think you will stop "chopping wood" someday and just relax. Better to do it as if you will until you die. |
Edited by - Etherfish on Jun 28 2009 10:13:46 AM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 12:54:51 PM
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Phew Shanti, thanks. There is a lot of things that I'm probably not making clear when reading your post.
The anger is not about losing my job, or the take over. I was very detached from that. It was finally provoked by the Chairman of my Board of Directors who has changed his mind over the take over about 12 times now and had me switched on and off.
In the final meeting, after all the rhetoric about how they would control the joint meeting and what they would negotiate they simply fell over and capitulated to everything. That was bad enough, but after the meeting the chairman wanted a quiet word with me and suggested I should be stronger so I could have a job in the new company  (the reality of course and I could see it, but I wasn't prepared to confront him as it was his weakness within the meeting that had caused him to lash out at the closest subordinate). Still, though I know, it still stings, the constant on and off of the merger and then the 'having to grovel' for a job in a company I don't believe in. Just blew my top really.
Anyway, water under the bridge really. I think I probably flow huge currents of energy these days as more of my nervous system has greater capacity. Unfortunately I didn't quite know what to do with that energy and it's helped me to learn to simply do what any martial artist does with a force and simply accept it and re-direct it.
NLP, or should I say Time Line Therapy is far less dynamic than this. It is more an 'after the event'therapy which allows shedding of lots of negative emotions from any time within the past and gives a coping structure for future events. Using Yogani's techniques allows a more fluid approach which operates like a flood gate, but you need to learn how to open that gate and where the water should go. Probably the gate was a bit sticky and the flood was a bit too rapid. Once learned it will make it easier to have the gate on automatic.
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 4:56:10 PM
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Karl
What form of enquiry where you using?
I regularly experience these unstoppable currents of emotion, that often arise completely unrelated to anything in my circumstances. Usually it's anger or grief, but sometimes anxiety.
The most effective way of dealing with this for me has been Byron Katie's "Loving What Is". It's an enquiry method that always helps me move into being fully present with whatever is happening without resistance or judgement.
After about 1 year of almost a continual barrage of unbearable emotional currents, Loving What Is (which i bought a few days ago) has helped me to almost immediately move into "release and acceptance" of these emotional states. They often come out in tears.
N.B. I find you can mentally come a long way, developing a rational outlook, mentally choosing to accept your emotions but you can have emotions that haven't come quite so far. So you can decide "I'm going to be present and without story with these emotions", but on an emotional level you still feel resistance to the emotions. It's good to discover where you are resisting emotionally, even when consciously you are trying to cultivate acceptance. Byron Katie's work helps me identify and cut through layers of resistance that would otherwise remain unconscious, keeping the emotion trapped. |
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Akasha
421 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 6:04:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karlUsing Yogani's techniques allows a more fluid approach which operates like a flood gate, but you need to learn how to open that gate and where the water should go. Probably the gate was a bit sticky and the flood was a bit too rapid. Once learned it will make it easier to have the gate on automatic.
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 6:32:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I just think you have to be realistic sometimes. There are events in life that require anger no matter how detached you try to be. There may be some distance created between what happens in your life and how you react to it from practising meditation but i personally wouldn't expect myself not to continue to feel anger if i am realistically provoked. The anger is still there no matter how much detachment you achieve.
For example, the buddhist monk that immolated himself. I don't think i am wrong in suggesting that that act of protest was not precipitated by feelings of antagonism in some form or another.
Hi Gumpi & All,
Anger is a natural emotion - a natural, reactive movement of energy.
Realization or enlightenment (or enlightenING ... as some of you have seen/read .... I like this term, too!) doesn't mean that emotions aren't felt ... it means that awareness is aware of itself as the total field of awareness in any given moment -- for instance, being fully aware of anger, and simply experiencing anger -- neither indulging nor repressing it artificially, in any way.
As Abhinavagupta says:
"Neither accept nor reject; simply rest in the true nature of the self."
How does this change the experience of anger?
Primarily, it tends to make it far more *brief* in duration .... anger arises, anger plays through, anger dissipates.
Resting in the true nature of the self simply means allowing some attention, as possible, to remain with awareness ... rather than to become lost in identification with objects in awareness.
Artificially enhancing anger with thoughts ("that shouldn't have happened!") or artificially repressing anger with thoughts ("I can't show them how angry I am ... they might not see me as spiritual!" or "I'm a peaceful person!" or, one that's way too honest {yet still ultimately artificial} for many people: "I feel so angry it scares me; I don't dare let it out -- who knows what might happen??") .... causes anger and other natural emotions to last longer, and be more intense (either disturbing peace disproportionately in the environment through being expressed, or in the body through being repressed) than what happens naturally.
And I do ultimately agree with Shanti: even anger doesn't need to be categorized *as* anger.
Emotions are naturally *felt* ... it is not natural to *think* about them .... yet, because, when not resting in awareness, we "think we are who we think we are" ... we tend to process *everything* through the "thought-self".
The thoughts thus create an "Un-Fun House Mirror" effect ... distorting whatever is thought about in time, in space (the "reach" of the effects of our thoughts), per conditioning (if one ego takes advantage of another, and appears to "gain" by it ... one ego will feel it "won", and the other will feel it "lost" ... the "good" or "bad" of the situation being utterly relative, based on the set of thoughts about it) ... or whatever else distorts thoughts in Maya (which *is* conceptual distortion).
Others will say, about an event, "That's SO wrong!" .... not recognizing the event, as all events, as being only objects in their single field of awareness, now.
How to tell if an emotion is natural?
Easy: how does an animal experience the emotion?
All animals experience all their emotions briefly and completely ... they're a conduit for the energy movement ... they don't *dam* themselves, the energy, or anything else, by artificially blocking anything.
Because there's no artificial thinking .... the emotion lasts exactly as long as it naturally lasts ... and is exactly as intense as it naturally is.
When a human experiences emotions this way, we call this healthy and enlightened ... and/or enlightening.
Good dialog; thanks all ... and I hope this post is helpful.
Heart Is Where The AUM Is .... Can You *Feel* It??
Kirtanman
PS to Gumpi: I just recently re-read the tale of the Buddhist monk who immolated himself, as told by Thich Nhat Hanh -- and he pointed out the active loving that this sacrifice displayed ... and that not only was the act *not* suicide ... it was not even protest.
Here's a link:
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/englis...Quangduc.htm
Whenever we imagine what someone else "must have" felt in a certain circumstance, we project our own thought-self into the situation as we imagine it. The actual situation is always different than we imagine .... sometimes (as in this case) ... in ways that are truly, literally and completely beyond imagination. |
Edited by - Kirtanman on Jun 28 2009 6:43:42 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2009 : 11:54:53 PM
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Thanks Kirtanman,
I wanted to say something about anger not being something we transcend, but couldn't find the words, so thanks.
I do believe that, at least for me, there is less tendency to get angry as I am "enlightening" (Shanti's word).
Anger comes from people stepping on your boundaries, and as we travel the path, I become less interested in those boundaries, and less protective of them. I DO get angry, but not so often. People often do things that used to make me angry, and I often watch with very little interest, the same as I do with anything in front of me that is moving. And most times the situation subsides and there was nothing to be angry about. Then other times i just go up to the person and tell them they have crossed my boundary, without any anger, and they apologize and correct it! |
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