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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2021 :  1:54:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Interpaul,

A lovely reply; thank you.
As regards non-duality, I do believe I have benefited greatly from our exchanges here, convoluted as they were and as they were always bound to be. Probably time to put them to bed, I think. I’ve only just discovered the on-going conversation on the Advaita forum, where the topic really belongs. I will follow the exchanges on view there, but do not feel I will be able to contribute anything beyond what I have offered here. Suffice for me to have made the effort to articulate my intellectual understanding of the subject here, such as it is, and to learn that it does not seem to be too far off-key, to the extent that it can be understood at all from the state of duality. Advice from yourself and the other responders to just continue dedicatedly with the practices is heeded and appreciated. Increasing ability to reach and deepen a state of Inner Silence to be the only objective.

And yes, we are “already there”, and maybe sometimes even realise it, briefly, then almost instantly forget again. One such moment, a couple of years ago, in a supermarket of all places; the bustle, the busy shoppers, the lights, the noise, the aromas, and myself standing at the entrance, the viewer, the viewing, the view, all One, then all separate again almost immediately. But the memory remains. As does still my first-ever memory: aged about three years, heavy winter rain, coolness, greyness, noisy battering of roof and ground, the gushing drain, the rushing jet issuing from its outlet across the receptive garden soil. No thought of any separation then, or even now, in vivid recall, nearly nine decades on.

And this: my one-and-only-ever ‘poem’ (if, by such epithet, it could be so glorified), all of it except the last ‘stanza’ welled up from ‘nowhere’, when alone one still summer evening in an isolated country cottage about 10-12 years ago, before my Kundalini awakening. The last stanza was added a couple of years after my awakening of 6 years ago. The words seem appropriate, the ‘metre’? mmm, perhaps not. Strangely, it never occurred to me before this very moment to mention it here.

What Is This Me?

Atoms, protons, all the rest,
That fantasy stuff of science mind.
Ne’er glimpsed by eye, but presence
Felt, in myriads of ways.

One Big Bang, they said,
Made all there is,
The stars, the earth, the tree, and me.

By act of God, the Ancients held,
And many so believe,
But strange, if so, to enquiring mind,
Its chemical and electric ways
Too small to grasp the matter whole,
But big enough to wonder deep,
About this world, and in it, me.

What is this me, this you, this we,
That tread our path the given span,
Too soon to cease to be?
Is it just once this way we wend,
Or once that’s now, and once that’s been
And once again, through all of time?

Truth be: It is all three.
I am You, You are Me.
Self and Non-self
All is One;
No beginning,
Without end,
Ever present:’That’, I am. (WCJ/JCW ca 2010/2017)

Thank you to everyone who has encouraged me on our shared journey. I feel very much at home.
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2021 :  1:58:23 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Kumar ul Islam.

Beautiful,thank you.
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 20 2021 :  2:20:54 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sey.

Yes, indeed, and not only tongue-tied; mind-boggled too,in my case. But, I have gained a lot from these exchanges and I appreciate more than I can say you all trying to help me out, both in clarifying the concept, as much as words possibly can, and also in the sense of 'out' meaning 'away from'. Probably time to leave the words now, and concentrate solely on the practices as the best means toward real understanding, through direct experience in Silence. Thank you all for emphasising this.
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Blanche

USA
738 Posts

Posted - Sep 21 2021 :  2:16:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, THAT cannot be put into words, but this has not stopped anyone from writing thousands and thousands of pages about IT
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 22 2021 :  1:28:46 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Blanche. Yes,indeed. I realise that better now. But I felt I needed to articulate my few hundred extra words on the subject, if only so that I could fully accept their worthlessness for this purpose, at least in their naked form. But I also feel that the best (most meaningful) words may make good ‘compost’, following digestion and absorption into receptive soil. Meanwhile, one further form of usefulness they undoubtedly have is their potential to lead one to a better understanding of Neti-neti.
And, of course, that only refers to ‘explaining’ That’, which cannot be explained, only understood, by its manifestation within oneself, and then, I feel, only dimly at first, increasing with the depth of silence reached. I believe I have caught a glimmer.
Words are needed here in these exchanges. I profoundly appreciate all those offered me so far. But you all (and Kundalini?, see below) seem to have evoked a torrent of them from me; please tell me if I have overstepped my brief. I’m here to learn, not to teach, except as may arise through ‘collateral benefit’ from your responses, from which I have learned so much already.
I awoke this morning with an intense Kundalini buzz in the lower chakras and torrents of words, all pertaining only to this discussion here, coursing through my mind. Some of these words and phrases seemed particularly eloquent (for want of a better word) at the time, such that I noted them down in semi darkness. Most of them are illegible to me now, and those that I have deciphered don’t seem particularly special. The benefits of cross-fertilisation, through this sharing, seemed to be their main theme. But we all knew that already. Perhaps they were a reflection of my own deep appreciation of this.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1377 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2021 :  07:37:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Walter, it is absolutely fine for you to question and share your experiences as much as you want. We all grow from it. Be aware that feedback you receive from different persons here are also a reflection on the inner state of where they are at at the moment. I find it goes something like this… we have an opening, we want to share and question, then we go through a phase of wanting to be silent and let integration of the new phase happen.
A person who says “best to let it go in silence” is at this point in time “letting it go in silence”; some weeks down the line, the same person will come in with some interesting development. It is all good as long as you are keeping up the practices.


Sey
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sunyata

USA
1473 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2021 :  3:59:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Walter,

Thank you for sharing. I completely agree with Sey and echo Interpaul's sentiments: Please feel free to share to your heart's content. Our journeys are unique and personal. This is the reason we have sangha to share and support each other.

We continue with our practices to have still minds so that we have access to the penetrating wisdom and vajra body( Ecstatic and radiant in AYP terms). And, during this journey, there may be periods where we may be inclined to share and other times just reside in Stillness and be drawn to the cave of our heart while we chop wood, carry water. This is the beauty of this journey. Ultimately, surrendering to what is.

Sunyata

Edited by - sunyata on Sep 23 2021 4:01:41 PM
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interpaul

USA
346 Posts

Posted - Sep 23 2021 :  6:03:08 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Some of these words and phrases seemed particularly eloquent (for want of a better word) at the time, such that I noted them down in semi darkness. Most of them are illegible to me now, and those that I have deciphered don’t seem particularly special.


Walter, That desire to express what feels deeply meaningful for me seems to be an expression of radiance. I have a sense(although one never can know how they are truly seen by others) my communications over the last couple years have become more focused. Somehow the words are infused with more passion and energy. In the same way Yogani describes outpouring of divine love, I sense that is the energy behind your sharing. A connection with community, a desire to have confirmation experiences are real, an interest in sharing wisdom, all seem to be going on with your post. I am honored to engage with you and others in this process.
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 24 2021 :  6:42:29 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply

SeyScorciere, Sunyata and Interpaul.
Thank you all for your warm encouragement to feel free to express whatever I wish to share in this forum. I shall indeed continue to do so.
Yes, Sey, I understand what you say; I feel sincerity the most important quality in anything I or others post. Only by that can help be given or received, or any real connection with each other. I am certain that the genuine and burning desire for Truth will always guide one in the right direction. Misunderstandings at times and/or inapposite advice given or received, all grist to the mill, if optimally digested over time. We probably learn best by mistakes. “Eyes that see” and “ears that hear” present in all sincere aspirants are surely constantly scanning their surroundings for spiritual meaning, if sometimes temporarily blinded or deafened by the demands of everyday life and the mechanical machinations of the mind, not to mention the unavoidable vacillations in bodily health, all of which are just part of everyday life. I feel that true meaning is often recognised subliminally, to later emerge into the conscious mind at a more appropriate time, probably through an unconscious ‘connection’ to some new conscious perception, or from ‘nowhere’, during silence.
In an earlier post, Sey, you mentioned ‘suffering’, in the sense that Eastern religion (Buddhism in particular, I would think, but I’m no authority) offers an end to it, especially unnecessary suffering. I understand that. But some religions say that suffering is necessary for spiritual growth; this taken to extremes in some cases, of course. What does AYP say about this, if anything? I think unnecessary suffering is the more important aspect of life to understand. What, in your view, are examples of unnecessary suffering, and do you have any particular means of ‘dropping’ it? I think this is a crucial issue in the context of spiritual growth.

Sunyata. Hello. Thank you very much for joining this series of exchanges. I very much appreciate your warm words. I am finding this form of communication very uplifting, and also fulfilling, in that words and feelings dammed up in my brain for decades are now finding welcome (and, from your encouraging messages, also welcomed) release. I am most grateful to you all for facilitating this release. In searching vainly for a more descriptive term for this ‘facilitation’, and already ‘encouragement’ used a lot, and not exactly right in this context somehow, the word midwifery came to mind. I feel you all have helped to give birth to words and ideas, questions and insights, that have been gestating within me the required term; time for them to emerge and be nourished externally..
Regarding ‘surrender’. This is a key requirement in all religions, but seems to me to have different meanings in different contexts. The meaning you give to it in your post above, I feel I understand well, as a trying just to Be, but not ‘trying’ really, just effortlessly letting go of self (surrendering it?), and allowing Self to Be. In Judeo-Christian religions, this might be termed surrendering to God. I would welcome your and other comments on this, especially if my interpretation of the word seems wrong in any way.

Interpaul.
Hello again, very nice to continue this exchange. I feel so welcome here. Much of what you say resonates with me.
Regarding the word ‘radiance’: after beginning Samyama again it has, of course, been in my mind a lot recently, but I was not at all sure how to interpret it in the context of spiritual growth (not that I had tried, leaving it to the subconscious to give me some insight on this in due course - or not - as the case may be). Of course, in physics there are different kinds of radiation, alpha, beta, etc atomic particles, different wave lengths of light, heat, etc., geometrically, rays and spokes, etc., radiating from a central origin, and metaphorically the beautiful bride radiating love and happiness. It certainly would not have occurred to me to use this word in regard to anything I wrote, but I get your meaning, and yes, it may well apply in a certain sense, that of disseminating ‘notions’ widely from a single source.

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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 24 2021 :  11:34:35 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Interpaul, again. I should have looked up the difference in the meaning of radiance and radiation before posting my last contribution in answer to your last! Radiance, as a descriptive quality, rather than a mechanism of energy transmission, is surely way over the top as regards my contributions in themselves, but explaining them as an expression of my intense Kundalini energy flow, yes, they could well be that. Thank you for that idea. Sorry for my previous misunderstanding (but see my note to Sey, above).
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1377 Posts

Posted - Sep 25 2021 :  05:53:43 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Walter,

I don’t know how far you are in the lessons, these two lessons touch upon your questions. Today I am letting it go in silence

https://www.aypsite.com/plus/321.html


https://www.aypsite.com/plus/360.html


Sey
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2021 :  1:35:16 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Sey. Understood.

Actually, I learned AYP in 2015 from Yogani’s published version of the lessons (copyright 2004), which finished with Lesson 235. I have consulted this version many times since then, but mainly on details of practicing. I must return to it for aspects of spiritual understanding which are concerning me, and many of which were surely discussed there. Thank you for the internet links you suggested, but these are for AYP plus, which I am not yet registered for, feeling I needed to fully assimilate the earlier practices first.

I fear that I may have deluged forum members with far too many words all at once; this has been very helpful to me, but it is probably best now to contribute further posts in smaller tranches in different forums. This I will hope to do hereon.

However, I do have one further incident to share here, and what could be an important question arising from it to ask.

As suggested to me early in this series of exchanges, I have resumed Samyama. However, as mentioned before, latterly I wake up in the morning with this flood of words in my head, and a strong Kundalini buzz* in my lower chakras (see below). It has been difficult to reach any real quietness in my morning practice. I resumed the flat-on-my back posture to see if this would help, Perhaps it did a little, but the depth needed for samyama not quite there. Nevertheless I persisted, and all seemed ok until I got to Akasha. There then seemed an explosion of ecstatic conductivity that seemed to propel me from the bed to adopt a slightly crouched standing position by its side, trembling from head to toe. This must seem alarming to the reader, but it didn’t seem threatening to me in any way. I just relaxed and everything was ok again. But I abandoned practice then and tried again, more peacefully, later.

As this type of phenomenon is so disrupting to the goal of deep inner peace, clearly it should be avoided. If it seems way off track from usual experiences in AYP, then it is possible the best way forward is either to separate out deep meditation, in which I do not experience ecstatic conductivity, especially with solar centering, for independent practice by itself, and perhaps leave off SBP and Samyama for a while, while I do more grounding activities in their place. One such may be reading from the wealth of spiritual poetry out there, which I had previously neglected.

I suppose I should report that I am on lots of cardiovascular medical drugs, following open heart surgery (now 27 years ago) which may possibly be involved some way in the intensity of my experiences, but luckily all is well as regards my heart function, and the experiences do not cause any obvious change in pulse rate or rhythm. Indeed, my blood pressure has been significantly lower recently. People tell me I look well, and I personally attribute this to AYP. I took great care in the early stages of my AYP to be sure my heart could cope with it, and luckily all seemed well then and since. This latest phenomenon was also coped with without noticeable effect and I have no concern for its safety in this respect. My only concern really is its disruptive effect on my ability to approach the state of inner silence.

* This buzz is a like the vibration felt when holding a high pressure garden hose. It seems likely to be the conscious perception of blood flow. The ecstatic element may be connected with 'inner sensuality',and may indicate that the lining of all blood vessels (indeed, possibly all smooth muscle) may be endowed with sensual potentiality, not generally perceptible in ordinary life. Inside the nasal passages and throat,even the lungs, may be cases in point, and could well explain my sensitivity.

Sorry for this further flood of more words, yet again. There still seems quite a lot I would like to articulate and share, but hope to do this piecemeal in future, over time, and probably under different forum and/or topic headings. Of course, if anyone would still like to add further comment here, this would always be very welcome.

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Christi

United Kingdom
3957 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2021 :  2:09:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Walter,

The two lessons that Sey linked to above can also be found here:


https://www.aypsite.com/321.html


https://www.aypsite.com/360.html


Many of the aspects of practice that you are discussing here, are touched upon often in the second volume of the book that you have. It covers lessons 239 to 430.

Here is the link for the book:

https://www.aypsite.org/books.html#ayp2


The symptoms that you are experiencing are kundalini symptoms. Going through the energetic awakening aspect of the path is an important stage and is necessary in order to experience the fruits of yoga. Without this purification taking place, we can never experience abiding peace, bliss and divine love. So, it is not something to try to avoid, or to shy away from.

You may experience some strange symptoms from time-to-time, such as the one you described, but over time they will become less and you will settle into a stage that is less dramatic in one sense, but more filled with ecstasy.

There is no need to try to separate Deep Meditation practice from Spinal Breathing and Samyama. It is best to keep them in the order suggested in the AYP lessons. This is the case even if you do not feel that you go as deep in your meditations. The goal of yoga is not to go deep in meditations. The goal of yoga is the ending of suffering, liberation, unity and divine love. It is a long journey and some turbulence from time-to-time is to be expected, and is a part of the journey.


Christi
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 27 2021 :  2:18:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Christi, a most helpful and encouraging response. I am most grateful.
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1377 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2021 :  06:25:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Walter,

For some awesome spiritual poetry, I recently found this site
https://www.poetseers.org/


Sey
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SeySorciere

Seychelles
1377 Posts

Posted - Sep 28 2021 :  06:27:14 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
The buzzing bum... my favorite.

Just being naughty


Sey
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Walter

United Kingdom
29 Posts

Posted - Sep 29 2021 :  3:38:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you, Sey. Your web link to Poet Seers looks great. Humour also welcome.
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