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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 24 2006 : 09:44:32 AM
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| Just out of curiosity who in this forum takes the flu shot? And what are your thoughts on it? Guy |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2006 : 10:33:23 AM
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I personally see major advantages to it and see no disadvantages at all.
Being holed up for several days while my body does battle with a virus it could have wiped out very quickly if it had preparation, is not high in my list of priorities for spending my time! 
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2006 : 11:10:07 AM
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| Hi David, Thanks for the input. By the way isn't obsidian a vapor. Just thought i'd ask. Guy |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2006 : 12:06:16 PM
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Hi Guy,
Obsidian is a very hard naturally occuring black volcanic stone. Chips of it have a surgically sharp edge. It was used as a cutting tool by some ancient societies, and also as a decorative stone for beads and the like.
-David |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 24 2006 12:07:36 PM |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2006 : 8:44:33 PM
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Hari Om
~~~~~~~
Hello ,
this is good health question.... this year I DID NOT get a flu shot. Last year I chose a new theraphy by inhaling the flu medicine via power and though the nasal membranes...an offering by Novartis Labs.
I am sure it was just me, but I have not been that SICK (ever) ((( ))) .
I will chose to take the flu head on vs. the experience I had. Again, I choose not to focus on the negitave, but if you said, Frank we will shoot you between the eyes <or> you can try this flu shot/or powder again, I gotta tell ya, I would be hard pressed to do the flu shot OR powder again ( ever - did I say ever!)...but i digress.
Frank In San Diego
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Guy_51
USA
170 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 07:27:15 AM
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Hi Frank:
I guess this means no, you would't take the shot.I just had mine and was surprised the needle was in for less than 2 seconds.Glad I did.
We are one
Guy |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 09:43:50 AM
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>> Last year I chose a new theraphy by inhaling the flu medicine via power and though the nasal membranes...an offering by Novartis Labs.
This doesn't sound like 'the flu shot' though, right? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 4:39:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
>> Last year I chose a new theraphy by inhaling the flu medicine via power and though the nasal membranes...an offering by Novartis Labs.
This doesn't sound like 'the flu shot' though, right?
yeah, frank, more details, please! |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2006 : 5:33:18 PM
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Frank said:
>> Last year I chose a new theraphy by inhaling the flu medicine via powder and though the nasal membranes...
Yeah Frank, this wasn't at a party by any chance, was it? Are you sure all your memories of the event are clear?  |
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NagoyaSea
424 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 12:30:25 AM
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The inhaled flu vaccine has been available for years, though may be more difficult to find than the injected form. The injected flu vaccine is made from killed virus, and should not cause any reaction other than a sore arm.... The inhaled flu vaccine is made from weakened virus and is only suggested for people up to 49.
If anyone has ever had the true influenza, you can be assured that taking the shot is a good thing, if you need it, and if others don't need it more than you do.
In light, life and in love,
Kathy |
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 07:53:24 AM
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Hari Om
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Hello Jim/David/all
Yep , now that you mention it the flu medicine was given at Studio 54  and I don't remember how I got home!!! ((( ))).
That said, its a new theraphy for sissy's like me that avoid any needles at all costs (I don't even sew buttons on my shiirts - just buy new ones!)
I will do some reseach on this, as I tried to find the product on the Novartis site and didn't see it - perhaps a diferent Lab made it, I will look it it.
The beneifit ( if you can really find it) is that the medication ++ effects are suppose to be good for 2 flu seasons.
That said, I was sick for ~ 60days min, really sick in the beginning for 15 days. I could not talk, hear, all the other junk that goes with it.
So, you may say ' how do ya know it was the medication?'... I looked at cause and effect. OK one day, then 24 hrs latter sick.
I cannot say recommend "yes or no" on flu shots for any one else, but for me it was not enjoyable and will take my chances with the flu. If one says ' you risk dying' - my answer, 'no worries, I did it a thousand times before, its not all its cracked up to be.'
Peace,
Frank In San Diego
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2006 : 10:36:24 PM
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| I don't get flu shots for two reasons: 1) As mentioned above sometimes flu shots give you the flu, but most of all: 2) I can get rid of any disease by fasting (water only) for a couple days. If it's really bad it may take three days, but that's very rare, usually because I started eating and caused a relapse. It doesn't hurt any to fast longer; it's just hard to do. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 3:50:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I don't get flu shots for two reasons: 1) As mentioned above sometimes flu shots give you the flu, but most of all: 2) I can get rid of any disease by fasting (water only) for a couple days. If it's really bad it may take three days, but that's very rare, usually because I started eating and caused a relapse. It doesn't hurt any to fast longer; it's just hard to do.
Etherfish, can you be more specific? What diseases have you cured, etc? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 4:40:22 PM
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Etherfish said:
1) As mentioned above sometimes flu shots give you the flu, but most of all
Keep in mind that the kinds of flu vaccine made from killed virus cannot give you the flu.
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Frank-in-SanDiego
USA
363 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 9:03:06 PM
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Hari Om
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Keep in mind that the kinds of flu vaccine made from killed virus cannot give you the flu.
Good point - here's the data I suggested the other day:
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/nasalspray.htm
Flu Vaccine (Live Attenuated Influenza Vaccine [LAIV])
I still am not sure what brand I used, but this is the medication.
Peace and Health,
Frank In San Diego
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2006 : 11:15:36 PM
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I was probably wrong about flu shots giving you the flu. I have known quite a few cases of people getting very sick after the flu shot when they were perfectly well before it. Maybe it's not the flu they got, but they felt like they had the flu, and were very ill for several days. They swore off flu shots because they said it was just as bad as getting the flu.
The kind of things you can cure with a water fast is any cold, flu, strep, just about anything that strengthening the immune system will cure.
The only things I know that it definitely won't help is consumptive
type diseases like consumptive tuberculosis, and I assume incurable stuff
like aids or cancer. I was just talking about the average stuff most people catch from each other. Animals in the wild naturally fast when they're ill. That's why they don't need drugs. I don't know if it works so quickly in everyone's system. You might have to detoxify for it to work quickly. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 02:19:01 AM
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Strengthening the immune system is the worst thing one can do for a genuine flu (much of what we call flu is just a cold). The flu does its damage - lethally, in some cases such as bird flu - by disastrously overactivating the immune system. That's why most victims in the 1918 pandemic were young people with very healthy constitutions...same will be true with bird flu.
if you want to survive a flu pandemic, your best bet is, quite seriously, to have the most run down immune system imaginable. if you can manage to stay infected with other viruses, so much the better. If you'll check this out with a doctor or scientist, they'll confirm.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 08:25:43 AM
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| I'll check that out, but initially it doesn't seem to make sense. Young people don't have a fully developed immune system. It takes time to build up immunities. It is easy for babies to die of common diseases for this reason. Why would fasting always cure things for me that other people are getting laid up for? i will start to come down with something everybody else is getting, fast, and it goes away. Is this fighting disease by weakening the immune system? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 10:06:19 AM
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Jim,
I'm very interested in what you said there about the flu. Do you have any references?
This doesn't sound impossible to me -- there are many situations in which the body does a lot of damage to itself by over-reacting to a morbidity -- people with a heart-attack or a damaged spinal cord are well-treated immediately with a powerful anti-inflammatory to stop the body's own defenses doubling or tripling the damage done. But I had never heard of this in connection with the flu.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 02 2006 5:06:51 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 9:51:00 PM
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Very interesting. You got me going now. . .
here's a site with a lot more detail:
http://www.fluwikie.com/index.php?n...ytokineStorm
What they say is the cytokine storm is one explanation for the 1918 epidemic, but it hasn't been proved yet. In fact, it is a very rare phenomenon, and that's why we don't have much info on it, and we don't know for sure if it is a real phenomenon.
The immune system is extremely complex, and we're still trying to figure it out.
It sounds to me like an immune system with a cytokine storm is not all that healthy, particularly the lymphatic system, but just has plenty of T-cells.
A cytocine storm causes problems because the T-cells and dead cells build up in the lungs. One of the most important parts of the immune system is the lymphatic system, that carries away the toxins created when T-cells kill other cells. The lymphatic system has no heart to pump lymph, but depends on muscular movement and one-way valves. That's one reason exercise is so important to our health. The main "pump" in the lymphatic system is abdominal breathing, and it works best during strenuous activity (or bastrika?!!). I usually trust the body's own expertise over drugs and the medical knowledge of man.
Western science is good at fixing physical broken stuff like bones. Eastern science is good at energetic imbalances and mental equilibrium. But the body is incredibly equipped to take care of itself, if we can figure out what it needs for optimum functioning. I think AYP practices brings us closer to that knowledge.
Anyway, I'll still fast when the avian flu comes around, and you guys take your shots, and whomever stops posting for an extended period of time loses, OK? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 9:57:03 PM
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"What they say is the cytokine storm is one explanation for the 1918 epidemic, but it hasn't been proved yet"
My understanding is that research on this contemporary bird flu has confirmed the theory. In any case, whatever underlying mechanism is cited to explain the cause of immune system overresponse, the people who die in flu pandemics (1918 and others) are disproportionally young people with healthy immune systems that overheat. That's accepted fact. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2006 : 11:14:57 PM
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| Thank God I'm not young. . .Never thought I'd say that! |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2006 : 02:16:09 AM
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| No joke. The next year or two is oldster's revenge. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2006 : 11:48:11 AM
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I did some more research on this at the medical authorities on the net here
in the USA. I went to WHO, CDC, and National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, a division of NIH.
I could find no evidence that a weaker immune system would fare better with the avian flu. The agencies working on developing the avian flu vaccines are looking for it to "stimulate an immune response", so that would make me think a good immune system is needed for the shot to work.
The main concern with the H5N1 avian flu (the only strain they are worried about out of more than 20) IS the cytokine storm phenomenon, but they don't say a weaker immune system won't do that.
The H5N1 virus travels easily between birds, in fact it is likely that normal human flu strains came partly from birds to begin with. birds normally carry many avian flu viruses in their intestines but it doesn't make them sick.
So far, one person has been observed to catch the avian flu from one other, but the contagion has not gone past one person. The fear is that the virus could mutate and gain the ability to transmit from human to human, and could cause a pandemic. Avian flu has been deadly in a lot of cases. Human infection has been known since 1997.
Current flu shots don't protect against avian flu. It is transmitted from coming into contact with infected birds, their feces, saliva, or nasal secretions. Eating poultry can't give it to you. There is very little risk in having a wild bird feeder in your yard. Just wash your hands after touching it. Most birds affected are waterfowl and shore birds.
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Edited by - Etherfish on Feb 04 2006 6:01:37 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2006 : 11:58:38 AM
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| The W.H.O. DOES recommend getting a regular flu shot in areas affected by the avian flu, even though it doesn't protect against avian flu. The reason for this is getting both of them is more dangerous, and most importantly having both diseases can cause "reassortment" which is a kind of collaboration between the two viruses which could contribute to increasing the avian flu bug's ability to transmit between humans and cause a pandemic. |
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flu shot
