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Ananda
3115 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 01:35:17 AM
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namaste dear friends,
i was wondering about this subject cz whenever i use the namah in my deep meditation i sometimes feel a hidden need in my heart to pronouce it "namaha" as if it would be more perfect then.
do you think it would differ in effect if i did that, i mean would it be wise or for the best?
and is there an esoteric meaning to the visarga here and if used does it add on more purification to the heart area?
Ananda
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 11:07:44 AM
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Hi Ananda,
Namaha is the correct pronunciation.
L&L
Dave |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 11:41:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
namaste dear friends,
i was wondering about this subject cz whenever i use the namah in my deep meditation i sometimes feel a hidden need in my heart to pronouce it "namaha" as if it would be more perfect then.
do you think it would differ in effect if i did that, i mean would it be wise or for the best?
and is there an esoteric meaning to the visarga here and if used does it add on more purification to the heart area?
Ananda
Ananda, let your mantra refine itself, don't think too much about it. if right now "HA" seems more natural, go with it.. you know we don't give too much thought to the mantra pronunciation during deep meditation. The mantras refine themselves.. so enjoy the openings that come with the mantra and let go the mind analysis of it.
Having said this  , from what I have gathered from the study of Kashmiri Shaivism, the visarga is an emission or as it is defined:
'Visarga' is a Sanskrit word meaning "sending forth, discharge".
The correct pronunciation of visarga is like letting the air go. It is said more as a "ha" with a very short "a", an out breath rather than a "HA".. with an extra "a" syllable at the end. So Namaha would sound with more like namaha (a short "a") than namaHA.
Listen to this http://www.universalshaivafellowshi...haivism.html maybe it will help you see what I am saying. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 12:36:33 PM
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| hi riptiz\Dave, i'm sorry but did you talk with yogani about this? |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 12:53:41 PM
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hi Shanti, and thk your for the insights.
it's actually because of you that i remembered to post this question about the visarga.
i know about the mantra process, but it's known to me that the Ah! is a universal mantra for the heart.
suffis use it in the repetition of the word Allah praised he.
but after the repetition, the automatic suffism here(synonym to automatic yoga) doesn't become Allaha it becomes AheN! AheN! aHh!
this is actually a suffi mantra here but not recognised by orthodox suffis as a stand alone practice.
and i don't advise anyone here to use it cz it has some specific instructions that came with it and inproper use might lead into undesired states if used without caution and proper instructions.
kindest regards,
Ananda |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 5:39:56 PM
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Hi Ananda,
Why would I talk to Yogani about this? I have just returned from the ashram in Ahmedabad. Both my teacher and guru speak perfect Sanskrit and Namaha is used in several mantras as well as the Divine Sound.I agree with Shanti about the pronunciation.
L&L
Dave |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 6:52:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Hi Ananda,
Why would I talk to Yogani about this? I have just returned from the ashram in Ahmedabad. Both my teacher and guru speak perfect Sanskrit and Namaha is used in several mantras as well as the Divine Sound.I agree with Shanti about the pronunciation.
L&L
Dave
Hi Dave:
This may be so, but the sound is NAMAH in the AYP deep meditation mantra enhancements (#2 and #3), and it always has been in practice here as well. Seems to work fine.
So, to use NAMAHA in AYP deep meditation (assuming a significant variation in pronunciation) is a variation on the system, and results may vary also. It will be for practitioners/researchers to determine over the long term in relation to the AYP system. I really can't say.
This is not to say NAMAHA is not a good mantra component. I just cannot verify it from long term direct experience, which is the only verification that counts, far more important than Sanskrit scholarship. If NAMAHA has been verified experientially over long periods of time in other systems, (presumably so), then this is good. But it is still starting at square one as far as the AYP system is concerned, because the practices and their integration in AYP are different from other systems.
So, what you are talking about is a mantra component used in other systems, not in the AYP system. Let's be clear about that.
There is really no point in debating one mantra component against the other, which would only be academic, and not verifying anything experientially, which takes many years to do. It has been done for NAMAH here, and I presume for NAMAHA elsewhere. And never the twain shall meet, except in stillness, of course.
No one should take this to mean that a modification in AYP mantra components, or any other part of the AYP system is a mortal sin. I just can't verify what every outcome will be. So it will be research.
Sometimes it may be worth trying modifications in the AYP practices, particularly if there are difficulties that are not resolving themselves. Other times it may not be worth it -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. See here for further discussion on this: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5103
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 8:48:29 PM
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Hi Yogani,
I wonder if it is not possible to find out things like that when you go beyond time and space and see cause and effect completely to it's utmost ending? I am sure it's possible and there seem to be some people having such deep insights, perhaps it is so big of a "difference" of getting to know the complete cause/effect cycle and to express this getting into words -like we use- to give a sure answer.
What I am mostly interested in is the word Allah, as it is used so often and so strongly, but sooo less in a way as it is done in deep meditation.
Acorrding to the kabbalah, the letters A and L refer to the wind element, while H refers to the fire element, giving the word Allah a big resonance on the heartchakra plus a burning effect on the end. On the other hand, when done with complete let go and tracked via conductivity, it moves so strongly and different down and then up and down again. Isn't it possible to see cause and effect of this movement in very high states of awareness that goes beyond time and space somehow? |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2009 : 11:58:21 PM
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Hi Holy:
The derivation of mantras, at least in the AYP approach, involves three things: Traditional guidelines, inner "seeing" (a function of ecstatic conductivity and refined sensory perception), and the experience of the community of practitioners.
The last is important because there will be many experiences in the same practitioner over time, and many experiences in the community of practitioners at any one point in time.
This is why we start with a core mantra and introduce enhancements in a flexible manner over time. One size does not fit all. The experience of many practitioners is more nuanced than scholarship and fixed teachings can account for, and I think many traditions fall short on this. That is why the AYP system is built primarily around experience, rather than scholarship or fixed by-rote teachings. Surely scholarship has a role to play, but once we have left the dock and sailed off on the boat of practices, it is a different game involving ongoing management of an integration of practices, self-pacing, etc.
So, I think it would be unlikely that one person, no matter how advanced, could intuit every aspect of meditation practice for everyone. Many have said they could, and the roads of history are paved with the limitations of such individuals. No, having a reasonable baseline is the best we can hope for, and it must be adapted for best results by the community it is serving in the present, and also by the community it will serve in the future. That is the logical approach. If we wait for a great savior to give us the magic answer, we will always be waiting. Much better to be doing. 
Regarding ALLAH, I do not have a Muslim background, so cannot say much about the long term effects of using ALLAH in meditation. However, it would not surprise me if the Sufis use ALLAH (and other sacred syllables) in a way similar to how we use mantra in deep meditation. Their ecstatic bliss is a clear indication of inner purification, opening, and the outpouring divine.
Btw, the Sufis played a significant role in the development of spiritual wisdom in ancient India, so some conspicuous overlaps should not be surprising.
In any case, from the AYP point of view, meanings are not assigned to mantra and have nothing to do with the process of meditation. If ALLAH is looked at purely from a vibrational standpoint, it has elements not so different from some of the syllables we use. But, again, I have not done the long term research on that. Probably better to consult a Sufi.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2009 : 09:45:30 AM
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Hi Yogani and all,
I looked into this a while ago when someone asked me why I used the word namaha instead of the AYP mantra namah. It looks like namaha and namah are two different words in sanskrit and they are both used as parts of mantras. Namah is used in mantras such as Om Namah Sivaya, whereas namaha is used in mantras such as Om Janavye Namaha.
I was used to mantras containing Namaha before I came to AYP, so I automatically reverted to Namaha when I took on the third mantra enhancement. I thought at first that namah and namaha could be the same word with namaha taking the additional a due to it's placement in the sentence, but it looks like that is not the case.
Christi
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2009 : 12:09:34 PM
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Hi All:
There is a tendency to regard Sanskrit as the last word on mantra definitions and pronunciations. But Sanskrit is a less certain language than many might wish. The very ancient oral traditions of India pre-date Sanskrit, and may or may not be accurately reflected in the Sanskrit writings that later recorded them. There were several versions of Sanskrit that evolved in ancient India, including a version that read from left to right, and another one that read from right to left. Some historians even place the origins of Sanskrit outside India, in central Asia, which is a real heresy.
The truth is that history is always going to be a combination of fact and wishful thinking, with the loudest voice (or military conqueror) usually having had its way. And that is what we will see as we look at history today, not an idealized perfection being magically transmitted to us from the distant past. That only exists in our imagination.
Where does that leave us with mantras, and all other spiritual knowledge? For sure, still with a wealth of resources coming to us from many spiritually advanced people who recorded their experiences in the past. But we must live in the present with the causes and effects that are operating in us now. Each time has its own spiritual dynamic. Therefore, the past is not more significant than the present. It is "now" that matters most. Indeed, "now" is all there is.
So, the suggestion is to use whatever works from wherever we may find it, with reasonable consistency over time. At the same time, if there are useful customizations or improvements that can be made, then make them. Do it as systematically as possible, and share what is learned so everyone can benefit.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2009 : 02:55:36 AM
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thank you for beautiful inputs everyone.
namaste,
Ananda |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2009 : 04:06:09 AM
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Hi Ananda,
Just in case you are interested, the word Namah comes from Namas meaning adoration. In the theory of mantra design, certain sylables have more of an effect on the subtle body than others. These include sylables with two constonants together such as kr in krishna or sr in sree. Also the single h (visarga) at the end of a word is said to have a very strong vibration.
Christi |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2009 : 10:34:20 AM
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oh! i am very interested, thks a lot for sharing this my brother it explains a lot...
Ananda |
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2009 : 5:19:25 PM
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| mantras are not about meanings: namah, namaha, same difference. Actually you are experiencing a karmic connection with Indian ceremonial practices, because, in fact, "namah ha" is how it is said by pandits. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2009 : 6:07:20 PM
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hi mystic,
true mantras aren't about meanings in ayp's practices, but they aren't like that everywhere they usually have meaning plus a vibrational effect.
like "om namah shivayah" hope i wrote it right, about that karmic connection i tend to believe in reincarnation cz it explains a lot but still there is that big hole (how to prove it?)
namaste,
Ananda
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2009 : 7:21:37 PM
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| if you are concerned with meanings or vibrational effects, then you are not meditating, you are thinking. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2009 : 02:19:45 AM
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again thk you mystic, and i just introduce the mantra nothing more nothing less.
but it works due to it's vibrational effects, here we disagree cz this is what yogani teaches and so long i found his teachings on this totally right. (taking in concideration what i have experienced and am experiencing all day)
about my interest in meaning that's just a cultural thingy, it has nothing to do with deep meditation maybe with bhakti plus it never hurts to learn smthg new just. (some food for thought)
tc amigo
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themysticseeker
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2009 : 3:16:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
again thk you mystic, and i just introduce the mantra nothing more nothing less.
but it works due to it's vibrational effects, here we disagree cz this is what yogani teaches and so long i found his teachings on this totally right. (taking in concideration what i have experienced and am experiencing all day)
about my interest in meaning that's just a cultural thingy, it has nothing to do with deep meditation maybe with bhakti plus it never hurts to learn smthg new just. (some food for thought)
tc amigo
Yes, indeed the mantras vibrate. Cheers... |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2016 : 10:32:39 AM
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Bumping this thread, I hope you all don't mind.
I found it through search.
I spontaneously started using "namaha" rather than "namah" a couple days ago. Please note, I currently do around 1-2 minutes DM every other day.
A couple notes on my experience with namaha:
The last syllable, -aha, feels like a lightening bolt. It is way too intense for this body.
That final syllable, -aha, correctly pronounced similar to english "aha!", is incredibly powerful. But it is jolting.
I'm not sure from where the desire to change from namah to namaha arose.
I would not recommend anyone to jump in headfirst with this. I am very surprised by the effect. Mind blown.
Of course, this all depends on the person.
Yogani, Christi, interested to hear why this may be so incredibly powerful, if that is a reasonable question to ask. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2016 : 02:22:11 AM
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Hi Tonightsthenight,
The last syllable of the Namaha mantra is especially strong as you have found. This does not mean that it will be necessarily strong for everyone or even for one person at all times. Each syllable of any mantra works in a particular way in the nervous system and so a particular syllable can seem especially strong for any one person at a certain stage. This happens because that syllable is creating a strong vibration with a particular aspect of the subtle nervous system at that moment. You may well find that in a few months time, or even a few weeks time, it will be resonating in a different way, because certain things have been cleared out.
Personally I have not used the mantra Namaha for many years now. I use only the AYP mantra: Shree Om Shree Om Ayam Ayam Namah Namah. So I can't really offer you more than that on the use of the Namaha mantra, as it is not something used here.
Christi |
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namah....namaha
