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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 1:34:49 PM
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Oops! I'm really sorry about that David, I thought everyone had pretty much seen it by now! Don't let that dissuade you though, it's a fantastic movie and far more to it than that one scene.
Hi Louis,
Lot's of good points, it is a difficult question to answer in regards to the usefulness of codes of conduct. Ironically the book you recommended to me "Old Path, White Clouds" by T.N. Hanh does discuss it often throughout the story of the Buddha. The need for a code of conduct probably really depends on the amount of inner silence present in the group in question.
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 21 2009 : 1:38:21 PM
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Anyone here read the book "The Shack"? My father (a devout Fundamentalist Evangelical Christian) gave this book to my wife for Christmas and the way she explained some of it to me, it sounded like at least part of the premise of the book was to state that the 10 commandments in the Bible were not meant to be "codes of conduct" as most percieve them. What they were meant for was to be used as a mirror to help us realize what it is that we often partake in that causes us suffering. They (according to this book, or at least what I understand of it) were not meant as "Thou shalt nots" but "If you are doing these things you will never be happy". I would love to hear anyone who has read this books perspective on this.
Love,
Carson |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 10:36:28 AM
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Hi Andrew and Carson
I just saw the last two posts today. I am currently reading that book I recommended to you Andrew, "Old Path White Cloud", a good read so far
quote:
The need for a code of conduct probably really depends on the amount of inner silence present in the group in question.
I don't know wheather that stacks up Andrew. In the Thich Nhat Hanh tradition for instance they have the orininal 5 precepts or guidelines from the buddha, then as one deepens one's practice the 14 Mindfulness Trainings are adopted and these are the ones adopted by lay people looking for a deeper committment. Then if one becomes a monk or nun there are a staggering 250 precepts or more.
I think what Carson said about The 10 Commandments being guidlines for happiness is a very good point. This has to be the approach to take I think.
The way I see it is, that wheather we like it or not, we are fully imbued with rules and guidlines in every aspect and walk of life. Take AYP for instance, because it deals with the dualistic nature of practices and develpoment(i.e.time based) of inner silence, there are a whole set of guidelines to follow, from DM to SB to Samyama and all the other aspects of it also. Posts here are moderated so that they comply with a code of conduct ( the guidlines). And this principle is brought into everything we do in life also.
If we ask the question - If I look deeply - with awareness and inner silence - at something I am doing or about to do - does it bring me true joy and happiness. Not meaning the instant joy one gets, which later can result in pain.
If we can be sufficiently in touch with our true nature to be able to answer this correctly each time, then obviously we don't need any guidlines for living in joy.
If on the other hand we are living a life where we are constantly being bombarded with ideas and practices that lead to disharmony, sadness and depression, then it might be more difficult to diseminate the wheat from the chaff. Our direction can easily be waylaid by ideas that may seem to bring joy, but when we look deeply at the reprecussions down the line, the opposite is true.
If also, we still have conditioning that causes us to take actions that cause us and others pain, then something to refer to, in the form of guidelines for joyful living, might not be a bad thing to be able to refer to.
I am suggesting that we DO all follow guidelines, whether we realise it or not, whether we have abondoned guidlines or not. So why not then choose guidlines that correspond with what deep inner silence shows us. In this way we are approaching it from inner silence and from guidelines that bring us more deeply into inner silence and joy.
As I said before I am not suggesting that AYP adopt guidelines for general conduct in life. What I am wondering about is the value of a good set of guidlines in association with the development of inner silence, through whatever system one practices.
Carson, that book "The Shack" sounds interesting, would you recommend it as a good read?
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Edited by - Sparkle on Jan 23 2009 10:38:27 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2009 : 10:48:13 AM
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Hi Louis,
I have not read the book "The Shack" myself. My father raves about it to everyone he meets. I believe it was written by a Christian but because of the concepts in the book being different from the conventional view taken by most sects of Christianity there were no Christian Publications that would print the book. And because it had such a Christian base no secular publications would print the book either. The author, (don't know his name) ended up publishing it himself out of his own pocket money and it is now a #1 bestseller, or so I'm told. I don't know much about the ins and outs of the book as I haven't talked a lot with my father about it, and my wife found the book perplexing, a little confusing and difficult to explain, so I don't have much to go on story-wise. I do gather that for some the first 80pages may turn you completely off and make you not finish the book. Especially if you have children. (or so this is what my father says....my wife wasn't bothered at all by the first 80 pages so...) Anyways, yeah I think this book may be worth reading and I would love to hear the AYP perspective on it, but I am so involved in so many other books it may take me personally a long time to get around to reading it. Let me know if you pick it up, cause I would love to hear a few other perspectives on it. Thanks
Love,
Carson |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2009 : 10:44:16 PM
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I finally got to reading Yogani's "Eight Limbs of Yoga" an excellent read and from my perspective laid out in a very clear and concise way and is extremely well written. I came across a section that made for a great list of behaviours or actions many of which would make for some useful milestones of spiritual progress.
A little quote from page 42 sums it up really well where Yogani indicates that the following behaviours "rise as natural tendencies as we develop more abiding inner silence and natural radiance in our life." :
- A reduction in harmful action
- Increasing honesty in all dealings
- The preservation and cultivation of sexual energy
- a lighter more nutritious diet
- An urge to engage in internal bodily cleansing
- Spiritual study and self-inquiry
- Intense desire for God/ Truth
- Greater Inclination to serve the needs of others
- More equanimity and contentment in life.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2009 : 02:42:43 AM
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I experience that those changes only show up in periods of "highs". When in lows due to overload or other causes, they vanish as quickly as if they were never there. And that is totally independent of how hearty and loving and open the "highs" were! Rather, the greater the highs, the greater the lows, so when the pendulum swings there's no sign of these "milestones" in behaviour. At least I crash back into the worst parts of the personality...
Is that only me, or does other recognize that? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2009 : 07:58:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Rather, the greater the highs, the greater the lows, so when the pendulum swings there's no sign of these "milestones" in behaviour. At least I crash back into the worst parts of the personality...
Is that only me, or does other recognize that?
I recognize it.. it will change. Just give it a bit more time emc.
As you open more.. the purification intensity gets stronger. Through the low stay with the attitude "this too shall pass".. and don't allow your mind to attach anything to the low phase.. don't visit the past to find a label to fit this moment.. don't analyze this moment.. just be in it.. and keep telling yourself.. "this is just a phase.. it will be gone.. I am not interested in knowing why, when, where, how.. it will go away". Don't try to wish it gone, don't try to alter the low. Keeping oneself busy is a good distraction, but in my case, when in a low it's hard to get motivated to do anything.
Then when you are out of it.. don't revisit it.. have amnesia and forget you had a low.. this way you are breaking the shaft.. you are not connecting one low to the next and to the next.. just enjoy the opening that comes after it.
The way I see it.. the low is happening now.. next moment the low is not there.. and not waiting for the future low, not telling myself.. well the next one is right around the corner. This moment there is no low.. last low was the past.. and past is just a dream.. next low who knows when it will be... and it is just imagination. As you train yourself to not take the lows seriously (and I know how hard it can be.. I know how terrible I feel when in a low.. it's like who cares about spirituality, there cannot be a better tomorrow.. it's like the dark days of my depression.. the only difference is, during the days of my depression, I did not know I could ever be out of it.. but now, deep inside I know.. this phase will pass.. it always does) your mind learns to not attach to the lows.. and soon the low phases get shorter and shorter.
The "highs" was what I was not sure how to not be attached to http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=5006
and Katrine and Yogani gave the most awesome replies to that.. "give it away"..
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=5006#43305
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=5006#43298
Hope this helps a bit. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2009 : 1:03:58 PM
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Shanti, thank you so much for your consideration. I know you have a big heart!
However, I can't help feeling it's a type of disease on this site to always assume someone has a problem and needs a lot of advice when anything at all (basically) is mentioned of how something is percieved. There are many "eager helpers" around here who jump in and help when no help is asked for... I certainly don't feel in need of any advice in a topic where we discuss if behaviour is a milestone of enlightenment. I am contributing to that discussion, not asking for any help. The communication becomes a bit weird when a problem is imposed on me like that, and the issue discussed is ignored...
So, I love your posts, Shanti, I just can't take them in really, because I sense you are defining a problem for me that I don't yet experience... |
Edited by - emc on Feb 05 2009 1:11:39 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Feb 06 2009 : 07:50:40 AM
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Guess I misunderstood your post emc.
Sorry for the confusion. |
Edited by - Shanti on Feb 06 2009 07:55:39 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2009 : 01:49:32 AM
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It's ok, Shanti. It's a great post and it will come to others who need it in the right time!
The topic as I read it, is about if behaviour milestones are reliable or not. When these swings come, the behaviour seems to go with it. There's not an increasing stability in better and better behaviour somehow. Can anyone of you hold the "good behaviours" when in low, mindy states? Are behaviours not following the state of mind and emotion? I see them very closely connected.
So... who would know if I'm ready to realize the next day, but today I'm behaving like a grumpy pain in the ass? Does that behaviour say anything of how "far" I have come, then? I never knew when realizations was to occur...
That was my point! |
Edited by - emc on Feb 07 2009 02:49:41 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2009 : 08:11:43 AM
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For what it's worth emc, you come across, to me at least, as much more real and balanced when you are not on one of your highs
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Actions as the measure for spiritual progress
