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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 08:25:48 AM
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Lately a lot has been going on in my life. Since starting the meditation group at home a month ago; and opening up to being/talking with people in need; there has been all kinds of calls to respond to (out of nowhere they came). Friends and strangers have come to my flat, or I have met them somewhere else. This happened at a time where there is also trouble at work (I am a union representative there, so I am involved in taking care that all is done correctly during cutbacks of personel etc), and because of a non-payed "holiday" in the month of October (all at work have to be off for a month this fall) I said yes to an extra job. This extra job is a wonderful experience, but there are people in need there too, and all of a sudden I found myself out of time. I didn't get the rest I needed, and this always leads to a diminished capacity to tolerate the energy always surging through the body.
Anyway.....when the imbalance sets in, it always follows a set pattern. The only difference over the years being the increase in intensity. The more energy.....the worse the trouble when equilibrium is disturbed.
And yet - if acknowledged, understood and then acted upon - the disturbances always leads to greater contact with inner Silence. There are in other words infinite ways to grow......
A few days ago I plunged into the hole. I have been in the hole many times over the years; but every time I encounter it, the experience of it deepens....ie.....I am set in direct contact with all the hidden, unconscious within. Previously it would bring me into contact with different personal issues from my life that were supressed or hidden from view, but at some point it hit a level of deep fears and pains that were much broader.....maybe connected to previous lives....I don't really know. All I know is it went from issues to just pure feelings or currents of sorts.
So.....when plunging into the hole.....it is as if my whole torso is vacant....as if anything can invade me ......and the shine is lost to me. It is a frightening, arrid, barren, desolate space that takes all meaning away from perception......and where different forces hover. From previous experiences with it I know that if I close myself to it......if i start resisting in any way.....it will glue itself to the presence and blacken the consciousness. So....the challenge is to stay open, open, open and allow whatever is there to run its course. If i start wording prayers...it will diminish the experience......it will comfort me, then, but at the same time it is a way of avoiding it. So I don't say anything.....all the energy is spent in staying open. This is another way of.....of communion... because at least I am here then. It is very, very difficult because the fear/forces are so strong, and this time it was particularly bad.
I forgot that service too has to be self-paced. It is a part of practise and should be done wisely....I cannot work full time at the office and at the same time work full time out of office. If ego thinks that I am capable of anything, then ego has taken this capability upon itself.....and when there is no time to be spacious and listen, then ego starts further directing. As always, the Shine is making it very clear that it is surrender to my inherent weekness that makes it possible to stay strong. Ego/person/body cannot operate on own terms.....nothing ever works like that to begin with.
This time I was very lucky, because without my conscious knowledge, a close friend of mine sensed my troubles and somehow; while immersed in Silence; managed to draw assistance from other dimensions that made this incident short and restored balance within a few hours. I am very grateful. When meditating, I always naturally come out of it after somewhere between 15 or 20 minutes. But the morning after this distressing night, when I looked at the time and expected to see 15 min had passed.....I was shocked to see that 45 min had elapsed. I had no idea where I had been. Not even a faint clue. All I knew was that everything was ok inside. The balance was restored and I was back with the shine.
The same morning I walked to work.....and during the walk...the area around the navel up towards the brest bone went through a release of some sort. The activity was not in the body but several centimeters out from the body (maybe in the subtle body? I know little of these things...).....almost as if there was a "hole" of its own there that released different energies. Afterwards......there was great relief and restoration of lightness. Then I was active all day at work...knowing that my holiday would start soon. Going home that day, the shine increased in strength and by the time I got to my flat it was flushing out of everywhere stronger than before....the room was full of it.....I cried from the beauty of it......
And everytime the increase in the shine happens.....I realize I know nothing......and though the room is full of light......and I am present to myself as that...... the longing for greater merging is always there too.....as if there is no endpoint to this.....
So it is blissfull and hard to bear at the same time.......if that makes any sense...
To me - the hole is the direct experience of the emptiness that is the truth of my existence. If the perception of this emptiness is not tolerated, this will block the perception of the light. When tolerated....the different dynamics that leads to the experience of it will be exposed to awareness. Once seen....understood.....the emptiness becomes see-through.....and then the light is perceived again. So instead of the emptiness being lacking...it is perceived to be full. The hole is then also the whole.
If I am opening up to greater service.....it is crucial that I always remember inherent weekness. This also means that although I have walked the path alone for many years, and have never been spoiled with outer support, it is not necessary that it continues to be so. It is ego that never asks for help. Though the guru is within.....so is ego.....and if the inner guru is lost to me, then the outer guru will carry me through. This outer guru is the inner guru of everyone else.....and there are friends I can turn to when in need. It is not enough that I know this or even understand this. I have a lot of rebehaving to do too.
The funny thing is.....I still don't tire of being present for people in need. It is not that kind of assistance that is the problem. On the contrary, it is always instant payback. So much love is perceived by it. But - if time (read now) is lost to me (through too much activity) this means less space. Less non-doing. And space is crucial.....it is space that is Silence...and it is where the love is. And noone else can provide space......it is always my responsiblity towards myself.
All this coincides with meeting a living guru presence later this fall.....and I have asked the Shine to prepare me for that encounter. I can't even begin to anticipate what this meeting will mean.......it is too big, so I have no expectations. I just understand that whatever little, nothing or huge will happen during the encounter, it will have an unknown impact. This feeling is sacred.
Thanks for being here with me.
I apologize for always using big words. I can't help it......life is vast to me.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 01 2008 : 11:35:47 PM
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Hi Katrine,
It's rare that I have trouble understanding where you are coming from in one of your posts, but I have to admit I read your post through twice because I didn't understand it the first time. Initially it gave me the impression: trying to say a lot without saying it all. I'm hoping you don't mind my candour, I'm likely way off but I know you are open and can sift through these words for what is true for you.
Just offering some support, what also comes to mind is self-pacing, sounds like excess energy enlivening previously dormant thought patters, happens to me when I am on the "over" or too much side of the equation. The sense of spaciousness or presence becomes obscured from view, this can be quite literal as well even when of course, It is always there.
Having to remember or act in particular ways, are always mental strategies from my perspective, which seemingly are born from fear or grasping for a solution when the only answer is, as always, to just Be in the here and now. Be open and present and allow all to pass through the limitless expanse of Being without attachment.
I went to erase this post twice, but then I thought maybe you'll find something of value in it.
with love,
A
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 12:06:06 AM
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Hi Katrine,
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I have experience the "hole" while on Ketamine before. And you are a blessing to everyone around you I'm sure. Just make sure you follow your own advice and self pace. Even with service. Good thing you got some time off !
In Love,
CarsonZi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 04:26:19 AM
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Hi Anthem
First of all: Thank you for your candour. I am glad you did not erase your post.
quote:
Just offering some support, what also comes to mind is self-pacing, sounds like excess energy enlivening previously dormant thought patters, happens to me when I am on the "over" or too much side of the equation.
Yes. Lack of self-pacing is what brought this on. What I didn't say in that post (see - your "trying to say a lot without saying it at all" is not way off at all ) is that I have been processing another emotional issue these past couple of months. It is a difficult issue because it brought feelings of attatchments that I resisted looking at when they surfaced. And in hindsight - after writing that post yesterday and reading your reply today the connection between the two just clicked in. Thank you for that!
So - usually I don't have problems with self-pacing. It is an ongoing care for me because of the strength of the ecstatic conductivity. But - this time, clarity was lost because of resisting this other issue - and I think that is also what stopped me from taking care that I didn't say yes to every call these two weeks. It made it easier to resist ....after all......the space that I didn't want to be in was filled then....
So - thank God for candid friends
As for the hole itself......it is the direct experience of life without the Shine. As in all else - a mental knowing that the Shine is always here doesn't do it for me. And - since I am so incredibly dense sometimes.....stubborn......what other ways are there for the Shine to get the message through to me?
Of course - had I voiced this with friends, it would have been different. Then again - if I don't voice it to myself, how can I expect to speak it? Somehow - the solitude over the years has been crucial. It has forced me to turn inwards always. But - I lack experience when this inward turning is challenged from the "outside". Earlier, I would shun attatchments. It was more than enough with the family. But avoiding attatchments is not the way either. It is through living that I learn. So - when I resonate closely with someone intimate to me, it is crucial that I keep my stand within at the same time. Life will teach me this so long as I dare to stay open to experience it.
So - it is not attatchment to friends as a way of avoiding myself that I will favor. But I am through with walking always alone. I am definitely going to see to it that I keep company with people that long for Silence to the extent that I do. This will be very beneficial and will also teach me to keep relating in a relational way - if you see what I mean. This spring I connected with a group of people in Oslo that have invited me to come to their center for meditation every Sunday. I have already accepted this invitation. They all work from heart so it is right in my ally
The AYP group at home is just great. I am so glad I got my ..... in gear and got it going.
quote:
Having to remember or act in particular ways, are always mental strategies from my perspective
So - with this extra piece of information, I am sure you can understand where I am coming from when I say that
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If I am opening up to greater service.....it is crucial that I always remember inherent weakness.
This always means that I favor letting go over grasping.
I am after all nothing by myself. If I insist on having it my way - then the Shine is obscured.
Andrew - what can I say other than a big thank you - and don't you dare to erase anything coming from where you are at at any time 
I am with the Shine now, so all is well.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 04:38:21 AM
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Hi Carson
quote:
Hi Katrine,
I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I have experience the "hole" while on Ketamine before.
Yes. I can tell you have had direct experience of it. Not fun, is it.....
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And you are a blessing to everyone around you I'm sure.
yes...when I am not being a pain in the butt
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Just make sure you follow your own advice and self pace.
Yessir
quote:
Good thing you got some time off !
Yes - thank God for "forced holidays" !
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 07:56:42 AM
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Thank you for sharing Katrine.
It is very similar to what I go through. Living in silence (the whole).. and then suddenly going through a phase where the silence seems sooo out of reach. The silence is always there.. it's just an effort to stay in it when the mind has taken over.
Living in silence has become easier and easier (right?)... but when I do get pulled into the mind (this generally happens when I am going through some major purification).. it seems harder to get back to the silence. This phase, of being caught up in ego, too has become much shorter. This is actually more a conditioning thing than anything else.. the mind has been conditioned to stress and figure things out.. and even when the solutions present themselves in ways the mind could not even being to fathom.. the mind has a way to ignore this (resistance) and keep looking for answers (causing a constriction). There is a suffering, only when there is resistance to accepting "what is".. be it purification, attachment, aloneness, emotions, etc. The min you can drop the resistance that happens when the mind thinks it should or should not be so.. because it does not follow the logic of the limited mind.. you can have instant access to the silence/shine.
During the purification/mindy phases, I keep telling myself this is just purification, just energy moving.. I am feeling what I am feeling.. and it will pass.. I don't need to analyze or explain it or label it.. this helps for the phase to pass much faster.. the more I attach to the energy with stories.. the longer the discomforts lingers on.
During these times, the mind is rampant.. it spins many stories.. attaches may thoughts from the past and future.. but we can chose to let the movie play out but not become a part of it. We can chose to be in our silence.. even when we think it is inaccessible.. we can chose to not attach to our thoughts. We can take all the turmoil and give it to ma.. to the silence.. to the shine.. like in samyama.. let the universe take care of the problem.. don't hesitate to ask the universe for help.. it never fails.. never.
It may seem difficult at first... but the more you surrender to the silence.. the easier it gets to be in it through any storm you may encounter (most storms really are a combination of energy movement + mind attaching a label to that energy + resistance to what is.). Soon it becomes evident that nothing can veil the shine/silence... because the only thing real is the shine.. the veiling happens only when we resist what is.
I know you already know all of this.. but just thought I'd put my thoughts out there with yours.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 11:09:20 AM
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Hi Shanti
Thank you for sharing - this cannot be said too often!
quote:
Living in silence has become easier and easier (right?)...
Yes, definitely
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but when I do get pulled into the mind (this generally happens when I am going through some major purification)
Yes - this is important. The tension issues in our daily lives are gems. They are the purification....they are the bringing up of what needs to be seen and released.
quote:
There is a hole, only when there is resistance to accepting "what is".. be it purification, attachment, aloneness, emotions, etc
Yes.
But it is also my experience that the Shine puts me in contact with the hole for a reason. It is as if I am asked to tolerate... There is something here that I don't yet understand......it is muddled....but for some reason, after having encountered the hole and not resisted it.....the merging with the Shine is different.....the shine is more and more intimate after such encounters. The fact that it is my beloved never ends in depth...
It is of course as you say, that after purification, you are with silence again.....But staying home is not a finished goal......the contact with silence expands in all directions.....and the contact is never ending, no? Some issues.....some blocks.....are deeper.....more stubborn than others. So....I can't help feeling that the purification this time also ment that I was to tolerate the actual experience of the hole itself. That this itself also was "what is". That that was the only thing that could clear this block. But I might be wrong about this......it is still not completely clear. Anyway - I am so grateful that I didn't leap from it....that I didn't pray to get away from it......because I want to honor truth above all else.
quote:
We can take all the turmoil and give it to ma.. to the silence.. to the shine.. like in samyama.. let the universe take care of the problem.. don't hesitate to ask the universe for help.. it never fails.. never.
Yes
I give away a lot to the Shine....literally. Whenever I notice something...I give it away. Unless I resist  . And I ask the Shine for help every day. Both for myself and for others. It is as you say - it always works. It always gives what is needed for futher understanding. Always.
Shanti - thanks again
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 12:32:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
It is of course as you say, that after purification, you are with silence again.....But staying home is not a finished goal......the contact with silence expands in all directions.....and the contact is never ending, no?
Yes. Yes.. with every purification.. the silence expands.. and it is a process of ever opening.. I really don't think there is ever a point when you can be finished.. I have heard masters say this. That is one reason (IMHO), when asked if he was enlightened, Yogani said.. "I am where I am" http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3896#33654, that is why Nithyananda in Contemplate Beyond Perception says "enlightenment is ultimate but not final.. that is why constantly even I am expressing new things.. because constant explosion happens in me.. constant updation happens.. the updation happens beyond mind.."... that is why I agree with David.. like there cannot be a fully educated person.. the concept of a fully realized person seems unlikely.. because the expansion never ends.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Some issues.....some blocks.....are deeper.....more stubborn than others. So....I can't help feeling that the purification this time also ment that I was to tolerate the actual experience of the hole itself. That this itself also was "what is". That that was the only thing that could clear this block. But I might be wrong about this......it is still not completely clear. Anyway - I am so grateful that I didn't leap from it....that I didn't pray to get away from it......because I want to honor truth above all else.
Yes.. this was what I was trying to say too.. accepting what is.. involves accepting purification.. accepting the opening.. accepting being in mind/ego.. because that is what is happening right now. The only thing to do is, consciously not attach to stories.. feel the energy authentically without attaching a meaning to the energy. If it is anger, feel it to the fullest, but don't attach a story (I am angry because...). If you are sad, cry to your hearts content, but don't say I am sad because... The shine will process the block and open.. how you deal with the process is what your mind will decide.. if you can let go the process will be over smoother. The blocks have to go.. purification has to happen.. but we don't have to suffer... because the suffering only exists in the mind.. it has nothing to do with the shine. It may sound harsh.. but the shine does not care.. it just shines... if you want to get caught up in mind through it, it will shine away.. if you accept and let go, it will shine away. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 12:34:36 PM
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Shanti/Katrine,
I think it all comes down to; "You can't overcome what you don't acknowledge exists." And this is why the "hole" times are necessary as well. They show us what we still have hiding in the closet. Sometimes stuff we actually never knew about, but is still there. To me these times are epitomized by a "bad (psychedelics) trip". These are the most painful but the most rewarding. Because they show you things you would rather not see about yourself, but really DO need to see in order to continue to progress.
Hope this makes sense to someone other than me
Love ya!
CarsonZi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 1:22:41 PM
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Hi Carson
quote:
I think it all comes down to; "You can't overcome what you don't acknowledge exists." And this is why the "hole" times are necessary as well. They show us what we still have hiding in the closet. Sometimes stuff we actually never knew about, but is still there. To me these times are epitomized by a "bad (psychedelics) trip". These are the most painful but the most rewarding. Because they show you things you would rather not see about yourself, but really DO need to see in order to continue to progress.
Hope this makes sense to someone other than me
Yes it makes perfect sense
And for me - the experience of the hole is what it is like to experiencially meet emptiness. Emptiness is what is the innermost truth. And the fear is created by the resistance to this fact. So when in the hole - not talking....just being with it......dissolves first the fear.....and then exposes the emptiness as first lacking..........and then if I keep being with it.....it turns into just emptiness without any attributes. This is when I fell asleep that night....when I reached the level of just the emptiness. Just the spaciousness.
It is becoming clearer as we speak of it.....
This is what the shine is telling me......it wants me to experience the emptiness.....to acknowledge it always.
In this emptiness.....there are no intentions. It is a very, very passive space.
The shine is showing me its relation to this space......it is wordless....
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 2:20:15 PM
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Yes. Perfect. Have you ever done psychedelics Katrine? What you are describing is the exact benefits of a "bad" trip. The exact mechanism of a "bad" trip. And just to be clear, "bad" doesn't mean nothing positive comes from it, it just means it is not a pleasant experience. The first glimpses of the "hole" can be terrifying, confusing, alienating, and downright difficult. But after a few exposures to it, it can get to a point where it can be hard to desire to desire to make something of the experience, but the experience itself becomes manageable. And THEN, you start LOOKING for the "hole". Actually desiring the hole, because even though it is painful and humbling to go there, it becomes beneficial in every way. Only the really tough times iron out the kinks in our character. It is hard to make progress when everything is roses and sunshine.
And you are right, it IS a passive space once you realize this, but at first it may be difficult to come to that realization.
In Love,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 02 2008 2:21:58 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 3:48:53 PM
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Hi Carson
quote:
Have you ever done psychedelics Katrine?
No.
quote:
Only the really tough times iron out the kinks in our character
Amen to that.
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It is hard to make progress when everything is roses and sunshine.
Yes. Mainly because we don't let go of "the good stuff".....we tend to want to build it inside. And since it is mind that builds, awareness is obscured under the filling. And I resisted facing this tendency when it surfaced. If recognized, I could have just released it into the shine. I could have trusted the shine with it. But I resisted instead.
However - thanks to grace, all this came out of that resistance - shows us how little we know, doesn't it.....
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 5:05:40 PM
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Hi Shanti
quote:
The only thing to do is, consciously not attach to stories.. feel the energy authentically without attaching a meaning to the energy
Great advise.
quote:
The shine will process the block and open.. how you deal with the process is what your mind will decide.. if you can let go the process will be over smoother. The blocks have to go.. purification has to happen.. but we don't have to suffer... because the suffering only exists in the mind.. it has nothing to do with the shine.
Yes. Pain can be felt physically, but this is not suffering the way I see it. It is only when I resist that I suffer.....and as you say, resistance is mind.
quote:
It may sound harsh.. but the shine does not care.. it just shines... if you want to get caught up in mind through it, it will shine away.. if you accept and let go, it will shine away.
Yes. It just shines
But it is also my experience that it is informing. Not the kind of information the mind can "get" - but there is always an aspect of understanding along the process for me. And if I let go, the information that is wordless is revealed, Shanti. And something matures inside because of it. I cannot explain this in any other way....since it has no words.....but something is transmitted and it has an impact. That is all. And I will continue to be aware of this too. Since it is wordless it cannot be remembered, so I have never been able to make stories of it - thank God!
Thanks for all your wonderful advise |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 8:26:16 PM
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Katrine,
quote: "I can't help feeling that the purification this time also meant that I was to tolerate the actual experience of the hole itself."
I just had a dream during a nap that was pretty bad. During the dream I remembered having the same dream before (maybe accurate or not) how there were this mob of men were killing women in some village. Only this time I was just observing, I wasn't one of the women. I take this dream to be purification, of course.  And the question arises, do I have to soak in the unpleasant feelings? I was semi-conscious during the dream and chose to wake up and recite "I feel divine!" to myself instead of ruminating in the bad feeling. Isn't it, I ask myself, a fine line between sitting with a feeling until it overwhelms me and/or using tools, skillful means, to process this purification in managable doses. I have the choice now, some other time it might not be so easy.
Love to all,
Jill |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 02 2008 : 11:07:00 PM
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Hi Jill,
I can answer this question. If you can get away from the feeling, you should. It is only helpful (IMHO) when it is forced and irresistable. In those times once the ordeal is over you will radiate life. In the times when you can get away and don't you will only end up brooding. Or it will be at least a lot harder not to brood.
In Love,
CarsonZi |
Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 02 2008 11:30:29 PM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 03 2008 : 09:31:41 AM
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Hi Jill
quote:
And the question arises, do I have to soak in the unpleasant feelings? I was semi-conscious during the dream and chose to wake up and recite "I feel divine!" to myself instead of ruminating in the bad feeling.
No. You do not have to soak or ruminate in the feelings. Staying still means that you allow whatever is there to run its course....but you do not blend with it. You witness instead. If you soak or ruminate..you have already moved away from yourself.....
This is difficult to explain....because the witness in us is not the same as the mind "looking". So when mind is active ....it will attatch itself to the feelings......it will take part in the film this way........instead of just being still. And we are not aware of this then..... the contact with inner silence needs to be deeper or more consistant to see/understand what the mind is "doing".
That is why we meditate
So even though you were on the "outside" of the scene taking place - you were still part of the film in that you identified with the feelings.....if that makes any sense to you. Afterwards you wanted something better.....since you already thought yourself to be "bad".....But neither "good" or "bad" is it.....these are all of the mind.
So - next time this happens and you come out of it, then just notice that you thought yourself to be "bad"....leave it at that.....and then you get on with your life. The purification happens just the same. The more inner silence is available, the more you will be able to let the scenery (thoughts, feelings, images) - flow through......or if you hold on to it and notice that....release the grip....and give what was clutched away to the silence.
Carson said it....."brooding".....that is what mind does when it is identified with feelings. It has married the feelings (in this case the negative ones) and makes its own film of it....on and on and on it can go.....right? The thoughts fuel the feelings and feelings fuel the thoughts. Like that...
And beyond all that is the real you. Just as divine as ever
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 10:37:56 AM
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So.....I finally understand the relation between the Shine and the emptiness......
A friend sent me an email about Shiva and Shakti....telling me that the Shine (Shakti) was Shiva moving. Or emptiness dancing.
And everything clicked inside.
Of course I have heard of Shiva and Shakti (who hasn't in here).....it is just that things like that never mean anyting to me until I directly experience them.....so I don't pay attention in the theory class....(sorry.....I don't mean to put theory down in any way)
Only after the experience does the explanation come in words...through a book...or a friend...or a stranger. And then the information is crucial...because it validates the experience and engenders further trust. It has always been like that for me.
Anyway.....although I have lived with the shine for a while now.....during daily life I consciously related to silence only in the moving aspect of the light, if that makes sense..... The shine - even though colorless - was something I could witness in addition to merge with. Only during meditation was the witnessing of the shine out of the question. And I never inquired why. Even though I sink in silence so much, I didn't experiencially connect Shakti with Shiva.
And now I do....and I don't know what to say......other than:
Consciously being with just the emptiness....this truly passive spaciousness.....is the deepest peace......
This makes all the difference.....because it means a deeper stillness during activity. And it makes it chrystal clear that when stillness calls me to itself I must honor it at all times.....no matter where I am or what I am doing. Shakti will have to wait for me to integrate this. Lots of self-pacing will take place now.
The integration of this understanding is what never stops. It is as if the real work can begin now, and yet there cannot be an endpoint anywhere. It must always be honored.
And Christi, if you are reading this, you were right in what you said here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=1
"I once heard that there must be no centre. No self around which to organize a new plan. The old self must die for the new to be born. Otherwise there will always be a response from the centre, which is the ego, with the corresponding excuses and justifications. Then there will never be that which is new and always beautiful."
When merged in the spaciousness....there is no center anywhere. I am not here then. And yet I am. But the instant I am active the personal aspect is back....so I wonder, could it be that when Shiva moves (Shakti).....and it happens through a soul.....that the personal aspect is always here? I still feel that the personal aspect is not the same as ego....it is a personal expression......not a center.......I still feel that it is allowed to be here with the activity.
You were also right about this:
"Personally I think you will have to be even more careful as time goes on. More purification in your system will lead to stronger resonance in other people’s systems."
Now that I am not at work......it is very clear that the people there have developped strong attachments to me. I will inquire into silence as to how to compassionately handle this before it gets unhealthy for them.
As for ego - there is plenty of ego in me. But when merged with space.....what does it really matter so long as it is acknowledged? Clearly, what ever needs to be dropped is dropping in spite of itself. I feel this is a never ending deepening. That there will always be something to let go of. Since every instant is newly born.
So David - if you are reading this - thank you for always stressing this point....there is no such thing as fully realized. It brings great relief to experience that this is true.
All I understand is that I am awake to myself to the extent that I am able at any time. And the ability varies.
I share this with all else on this planet
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 1:58:40 PM
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As always, a joy to read your post Katrine. I don't think there is anything to say really, I just wanted you to know that I really enjoyed reading this post as always. Have you read the Emptiness Dancing book? If you haven't you will love it I promise.
Love,
CarsonZi |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 2:28:01 PM
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Hi Carson
Thank you!
quote:
Have you read the Emptiness Dancing book? If you haven't you will love it I promise.
Yes - I read it about a year and a half ago (I take it you mean the one by Adyashanti). Thanks for reminding me. A lot has happened since then! It sits in my book shelf, so I will read it again now |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 3:09:46 PM
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Yes, I meant the Adyashanti one. I find Adyashanti and Tolle and the likes of the "Be Here Now"/Advaita types of limited use for me at this stage of the "game", but you sound like you are basically there. Maybe reading Adya's book this time around will have even more meaning to you at this stage of your journey then it may have had a year and a half ago.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2008 : 3:40:24 PM
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Hi Carson
quote:
Maybe reading Adya's book this time around will have even more meaning to you at this stage of your journey then it may have had a year and a half ago.
Yes.....there is a smile in the chest.....because before seeing your post I just read this (in Adya's book):
"The feeling of difficulty or any spiritual idea about myself, high or low, collapsed. In that collapse I found the dropping of the facade was so delicious, so beautiful, so sacred. This was an opportunity to see the Oneness everywhere, in every experience, not as some idea of what it's going to be like. When the idea collapses, the reality of the sacred has an opportunity to emerge. And the real sacred is much more beautiful than the idea - not as dramatic, but much more beautiful.
Dharmic relationship is a relationship that is real. The beautiful is in the real. It's not in the idea of the spiritual relationship. It's in the reality of it."
And a Dharmic relationship can be shared with everything....a flower, the sky, a dog, a human being....anything really.
Thanks Carson
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 05:05:23 AM
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There is just one thing to add according the dynamic of attachments:
Below everything was fear. It was the resistance to this fear that created the tendency to build the good stuff inside. The inner longing that is the silence/spaciousness always calling me home....deeper and deeper......sometimes there is fear of the insecurity and vulnerability that comes with it. The always "not knowing"......is hard to bear sometimes.....there was much hurt from very early in life....so it is understandable that there is fear. But the instant the surrender to it happens, then it matters not how vulnerable or insecure.....these are just drowned in the silence/space.
The vacant feeling in the chest when in the hole.....after landing in the deep spaciousness.....the "walls" dissolved themselves into the spaciousness......and now the space is the same within/without......the hole stops being a hole....when the walls dissolves...and then it matters not what comes....instead of a feeling of being invaded....there is just a passing through of "stuff"......that cannot stick itself to anything....since there is only space.....
When merged with the shine I always find myself all over the place.....but to be aquainted with just the emptiness is different.....it is pure peace.......
When the fear was acknowledged (first the spaciousness let it surface).....then it was processed...witnessed for as long as it took....I spoke of it to myself and another.......kept witnessing....and then it was no more.......just this great calm that I am more intimate with than before.
When in the deep passive space.....nothing is happening. And it is this that I am asked to tolerate.
And now the eye has joined the ear in the heart...
I always expected inner vision to take place before the Ajna......but not so.......it is the innermost heart that sees.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 06:18:52 AM
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Hi Katrine, lovely to read this topic. It's encouraging to read about your journey to the Depths.
quote:
When in the deep passive space.....nothing is happening. And it is this that I am asked to tolerate.
This reminds me of this, that came out from me a while ago:
The mind
can not
visualize
nothing
Helplessly out of order
when trying to make a
picture of
nothing
It's not a feeling
It's not a sensation
It's not a perception
It's not even a touch
It's none of that
Nothing
There's no I
There's no me
There's no... one there
to watch
anylonger
There's nothing to watch
There's nothing to be aware of
ultimate relaxation
awareness suddenly seems
like a very busy
thing
something going on
when
there's
nothing
going
on
(http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3586#31954)
It's a wonderful peace, indeed! Although I only have the benefit of visiting The Nothingness occasionally, the calling is there... always! |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 06:37:43 AM
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Beautiful poem, emc, thank you
quote:
It's a wonderful peace, indeed! Although I only have the benefit of visiting The Nothingness occasionally, the calling is there... always!
Yes. The calling is always here......such a grace
And there will be fear surfacing again for me. Again and again it will surface like it always has. But at least the dynamic when it comes to attachment is understood. It is this clearing of space that is the maturing the way I experience it........the understanding can of course be "forgotten". But not for long....since the understanding has already been here once.....integration can take place.
Thanks again for the lovely poem
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 12:46:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
There is just one thing to add according the dynamic of attachments:
Below everything was fear. It was the resistance to this fear that created the tendency to build the good stuff inside. The inner longing that is the silence/spaciousness always calling me home....deeper and deeper......sometimes there is fear of the insecurity and vulnerability that comes with it. The always "not knowing"......is hard to bear sometimes.....there was much hurt from very early in life....so it is understandable that there is fear. But the instant the surrender to it happens, then it matters not how vulnerable or insecure.....these are just drowned in the silence/space.
The vacant feeling in the chest when in the hole.....after landing in the deep spaciousness.....the "walls" dissolved themselves into the spaciousness......and now the space is the same within/without......the hole stops being a hole....when the walls dissolves...and then it matters not what comes....instead of a feeling of being invaded....there is just a passing through of "stuff"......that cannot stick itself to anything....since there is only space.....
When merged with the shine I always find myself all over the place.....but to be aquainted with just the emptiness is different.....it is pure peace.......
Hi Katrine,
This is what came to mind when reading of your perception of the "hole". From my perspective the hole can only be such when immersed in it, when identified with it. When identified as emptiness/ spaciousness, the hole moves along within the space like all other emotional reactions and experiences. We are not these and when it is seen that we are absolutely none of it (not anything perceived or experienced), like you say, peace....
quote:
When the fear was acknowledged (first the spaciousness let it surface).....then it was processed...witnessed for as long as it took....I spoke of it to myself and another.......kept witnessing....and then it was no more.......just this great calm that I am more intimate with than before.
From my perspective, this is the very foundation of individuality. We identify with something and at this juncture, then there can be something else. If we are good, then there can be bad and so on. When the center dissolves, then there is just open spaciousness and all passes through, all of it becomes part of the one.
quote:
When in the deep passive space.....nothing is happening. And it is this that I am asked to tolerate.
Is it passive? interesting choice of words. Passive for "i" ego, but action happens, it is witnessed. What needs to be tolerated? Does it need to be tolerated or perhaps accepted/ surrendered to instead? One seems like a burden to be carried until it is put down, the other freedom.
Just another perspective,
A
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2008 : 6:08:37 PM
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quote:
And Christi, if you are reading this, you were right in what you said here:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....&whichpage=1
"I once heard that there must be no centre. No self around which to organize a new plan. The old self must die for the new to be born. Otherwise there will always be a response from the centre, which is the ego, with the corresponding excuses and justifications. Then there will never be that which is new and always beautiful."
I think it was Krishnamurti who said that. As far as I am concerned, the man was a spiritual genius.
Your "hole" sounds a bit like it could be the manipura chakra opening and clearing?
Christi |
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The hole and the whole
