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 Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
 Thinking the mantra friendly
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Annademiel

Germany
21 Posts

Posted - Dec 14 2021 :  2:58:37 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Hello, I would like to share here an experience about meditation. Just when I started practicing it sometimes happened that I did not feel so good and thought the mantra, influenced by it in a somewhat sad voice. I took this as an opportunity to introduce for myself a small extension to meditation, in my experience it is much easier to learn than, for example, solar centering and I have good results with it.

Simply put, I have gotten into the habit of thinking the mantra in a friendly, calm voice and returning to it whenever I realize I have strayed from it, just as I would return to the mantra itself. The voice and mood transcends with the mantra. The habit requires very little extra attention once you get into it. Since doing it this way, I feel better at the end of the meditation and during the meditation itself. I even have the impression that I get into the silence faster than before. In any case, a calm, slightly amused by the world, positive mood lasts longer during the day.

I know this is not explicitly part of the system but I found this thing very helpful and wanted to share that. What do you think about it?

Regards

Annademiel

Dogboy

USA
2002 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2021 :  01:47:59 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Annademiel

I have an intention during spinal breathing to exhale my thoughts in preparation for entering DM, and for the most part it works, I am able to gently tether myself to the mantra with little chatter. My interior voice is usually whisper-like, for both mantra and sutras, though sometimes starts drifting into a “sing-song” cadence; when noticed I correct to the baseline. If your inner voice saddens you, there’s nothing wrong with making a correction to something that resonates with you in a natural way that you can easily default to if your mantra goes off track. Find a inner voice you can easily favor as you do the mantra, and then forget about it.

Edited by - Dogboy on Dec 15 2021 01:48:41 AM
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Jeanjean82

France
18 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2021 :  1:38:02 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello,

i'am a beginnner in the practice but it seems that mood during the journey outside the practice is the touchstone of a good practice.
However (there is question behind ) sometimes we go through difficult moment/bad sensation and it is not necessarily because bad or inadapted practice but because some impurity go out...so what can we do? Wait some time, self pacing or change method?

regards
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Dogboy

USA
2002 Posts

Posted - Dec 15 2021 :  3:58:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
JeanJean

Wait it out, and observe how the difficult moment relates to your everyday life. Self pace your practice if you are in discomfort or the difficult moment blossoms into something worse/sustained.
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Jeanjean82

France
18 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2021 :  10:06:16 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dogboy!
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Annademiel

Germany
21 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2021 :  3:07:01 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Greetings to you and thank you for your contributions so far.

What I have suggested or observed was less intended to make the meditation - experience more pleasant at any cost, as I was aware that purification effects can occur through the dissolution of impurities and the touchstone is the average increasingly better everyday experience.

The extreme that an external situation could not be well released before the meditation and this influenced the voice with which the mantra was repeated did not happen often. And only at the very beginning of my practice. After that, the voice was always fairly neutral.

But I took the memory of this initial experience now as an occasion to consciously make an experiment. The words voice (Stimme) and mood (Stimmung) are related in German - and I think rightly so. We use a sound to go with it through the layers of our consciousness / our subtle bodies - whatever - into silence. On the way there the mantra acts like a broom going through the layers of blockages and causes purification. Our true self, due to this purification, will eventually shine through more and more from the side of pure consciousness and bring everything into order as we are ideally designed, ok.

But the fact is also that as we go through the layers, we bring something in. I believe, as I said, that a voice always carries a mood - observe how people's voices change when they are moved by emotions. According to Yogi Creation Lore, everything that exists has a lot to do with vibration, including sound vibration (AUM in variations).

So I worked for a little while on adjusting the voice for the mantra, without much effort, so that it reflects positive qualities - like I speak when I am particularly calm and happy. As described in the beginning, the effects have been positive and I also feel that in meditation silence is better achieved this way although this is a small extension.

Greetings

Annademiel
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Christi

United Kingdom
4156 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2021 :  6:39:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Annademiel,

You have received some good advice already.

The procedure of Deep Meditation is a very simple one, and that simplicity remains going all the way in. So, the simple procedure is to favour the mantra over anything else that is going on. Moods can change, feelings can change and so on. But whatever the mood is, we can notice that and then easily favour the mantra with our attention over that experience. The same goes for feelings, or thoughts and so on.

So, when you come back to the mantra, pick it up in a way that is comfortable, repeating it back-to-back and then let it go as it will. This is the most important thing.

If you find that your day-to-day experience is not good, then you may be experiencing too much purification, in which case you may want to self-pace your practice downwards for some time. But of course, if you are feeling sad in daily life, that may not be related to excessive purification happening. It could have other causes. So, that is worth bearing in mind.

You may find this lesson useful on experiencing over-sensitivity to the practices:

Lesson 367 - Suggestions for Over-Sensitive Meditators



Christi
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Annademiel

Germany
21 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2021 :  8:55:58 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for your advice Christi,
I didn't mean that I feel sad in any way in everyday life and certainly not for a long time, since I practice AYP I feel fine and better every day. An upset that affected the voice with which the mantra was mentally repeated only occurred a few times during the initial phase. This also had no influence on how I felt after the meditation. I would not classify myself as hypersensitive, a guided shortening of the time with the normal procedure has so far always been sufficient to control purification.
Making the voice a little friendly on purpose was just an experiment on my part that I - I admit it - did deviating from the original instructions and with which, as I said, I have had very good experiences so far, both during and after the meditation. I wanted to share these experiences. As a research result, so to speak. Since I am still a beginner, it was not meant as a statement that it must be done correctly. It could be that others have made similar findings. I know it is logical not to want to share his attention. But it also seemed logical to go deep with a good "vibration" - from the beginner's point of view.

Greetings

Annademiel
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Christi

United Kingdom
4156 Posts

Posted - Dec 16 2021 :  10:23:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Annademiel,

Thanks for clarifying that. And yes, from a technical point of view, it has to do with dividing the attention. Part of what makes the meditation process so effective, is that the attention is being brought to just one thing, the sound vibration of the mantra. If you imagine the attention being like a spotlight, when we begin to practice meditation it is often like a spotlight with a very wide beam. We are aware of the mantra, but also of thoughts, feelings, memories, fantasies, sensations in the body, sounds in the room, tomorrows shopping list, and so on. And the attention tends to move between these things constantly. It is like a moth, fluttering around. But as we become used to the process of meditation, it tends to come to rest more and more with the mantra, until all that we are aware of is the mantra. At that point, consciousness becomes like a powerful stream, flowing only in one direction. There is only the witness, and the mantra, and this powerful flow of consciousness between the two. This is called dharana.

And then at some point even the division between the subject and the object dissolves, and there is only the mantra. This is called dhyana. And when even the mantra disappears, leaving only objectless pure awareness, this is called nirvikalpa samadhi.

This process of bringing the consciousness towards one object, without any division, is called tratak. Tratak plays an important role in many of the practices in yoga, including Spinal Breathing and Deep Meditation, which is why we want to be careful not to start dividing the attention. It may produce some good results initially, but yoga sadhana is about a much deeper process of transcendence of the mind, leading to liberation. And that requires quite a specific process in terms of practice.

It is similar to learning to play a violin. A beginner will feel that it makes logical sense to grab the end of the bow and start playing. But the violin teacher will actually spend a long time teaching the student how to hold the bow in a specific way, which involves balancing the bow on the tip of the bent thumb, and then lightly resting the other fingers on top. It does not make sense at first because it feels unnatural and the bow can even fall to the ground. It is not until later, when the student starts to play fast, that it makes sense not to be using the muscles in the bowing hand to hold the bow.


Christi
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Annademiel

Germany
21 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2021 :  3:18:20 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Christi,
I understand what you mean. Perhaps I simply concluded from the expansion of solar centering that it would be possible to unite two things like mantra and place or mantra and voice into one meditation object through habit and go deep with that as well. Which is not to say that I plan to introduce solar centering or a longer mantra at such an early stage (about a year of practice).
Right now I am just having good results with meditation.

It seems that in many things in life I tend to go my own way and can accept very little immediately without questioning and trying. Any guru would pull his hair out. Ironically, without this attitude I would never have found AYP. In the end, questioning and doing a little research on my own has always paid off.

It was simply an experiment with the voice.


Regards

Annademiel
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Christi

United Kingdom
4156 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2021 :  4:34:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Annademiel,

The solar centering enhancement does not actually unite two things as the meditation object. It actually divides the attention. When we come back to the mantra, we come back to the sound vibration of it and come back to it at a specific location, so that is two separate things. It is because the solar centering enhancement waters down the effect of the meditation, in terms of tratak, that it is optional in AYP. Some people may choose not to use it, in order to keep the attention undivided. It is also the reason it is not offered to beginners. But of course there are advantages with it as well, which is why it is offered as a possibility. Yogani mentions this trade-off in lesson 368:

"It is hoped that the trade-off in benefits for well-established meditators will be found worthwhile. As with all practices, the solar centering enhancement should only be taken on when we sense that the time is right. It is a function of our bhakti, balanced with practical application." [Yogani]

He also mentions in the same lesson how serious it is in terms of building a yoga system, to start offering an optional meditation variation that divides the mind:

"For the first time, we are introducing a nuance in the central procedure of deep meditation. It is not done lightly." [Yogani]


The same thing happens with Spinal Breathing Pranayama. There are various possible enhancements that can be used with SBP such as the visualisation of hot and cold currents, or lightly pushing the eyes upwards and inwards, but many people choose not to include these things, because it can divide the attention. So, it is a trade-off between what something potentially adds, and what is potentially lost. And that will vary from person to person, often depending on how experienced they are. More experienced meditators will often have a lot of things happening automatically in the body. And when things are happening automatically they are much less likely to divide the attention.


Christi
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Dogboy

USA
2002 Posts

Posted - Dec 17 2021 :  10:22:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I find solar centering stabilizes my practice, especially in high energy states when the third eye and root are “active”; attention at the center seems to widen my shushumna by connecting those portals.

Generally, Annademiel, your practice appears stable, and you appear to enjoy your practice. As with any enhancements or deviations, if they no longer move you, simply return to the baseline. The Guru is in you

Edited by - Dogboy on Dec 17 2021 10:23:44 PM
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Annademiel

Germany
21 Posts

Posted - Dec 18 2021 :  2:42:52 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Great, I thank both of you. I will be careful and not add anything too quickly.
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Blanche

USA
808 Posts

Posted - Dec 22 2021 :  2:29:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Blanche's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Annademiel,

I find interesting your observation that the tone of voice carries additional information beyond the verbal level. We all can read a lot of information in someone’s voice, beyond the meaning of the words. In fact, I have heard a yoga teacher saying that she can hear the imprint of life experiences in people’s voices. Imagine that you could get a general picture of someone’s life just listening to their voice! I hear a change in people’s voice after practicing for a while yoga and especially meditation – and maybe others in this forum have noticed a change in their voice, too.

Our practice, experience, and understanding come in stages. If the tone of the mantra makes a difference, then making it more pleasant to help continue with a regular meditation is not a big problem. There may be a time when the tone of the mantra becomes irrelevant. The same thing happens with the placement of the mantra: Maybe the mantra feels like it is placed in the head or in the heart, and then it may be beneficial to do solar centering and bring it down to the navel. Mantra placement has to do with inner perceptions, and as we go deeper, this level is transcended and there is no such thing as mantra placement – and then we will not talk about where the mantra is placed.

As we practice, it is good to hold lightly on our habits and allow things to evolve, as the nervous system purifies.
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AYPforum

351 Posts

Posted - Dec 27 2021 :  12:50:17 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement
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