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crazymandrew
USA
121 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 06 2013 : 05:12:03 AM
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| There are two forests near my house. One is a State Park, and it is very very clean and well regulated. The other is a city forest and people literally trash the place!! It's amazing the difference between the two. Anyways, is cleaning a forest a good karma yoga practice. I believe plants and animals have consciousnesses too. So it's like a double wammy. Clean trails for people and wildlife. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2013 : 08:56:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by crazymandrew
Anyways, is cleaning a forest a good karma yoga practice.
Do it because you want to... why worry about brownie points... 
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2013 : 1:56:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
quote:
Originally posted by crazymandrew
is cleaning a forest a good karma yoga practice.
Do it because you want to...
This is an inspiring exchange and it led me to listen to Yogani speak about Bhakti and Karma in a radio interview with Dr. Ann West (divided into six parts) starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQGQG5BkWIM
I am so glad I heard it (again) as it resonates deeply as true guidance. I highly recommend it.
We are looking at desire, and how desire leads into action. In the case of wanting to clear a forest, perhaps this is an outer expression of desire to clear inner obstructions. Perhaps it will be be an expression of inner silence in action.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2013 : 3:35:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
why worry about brownie points...
 That question amuses me, maybe because of the term "brownie points" -- a funny phrase. To me it mainly has a connotation of currying favor by "brown -nosing" (cleaning someone else's trail, if you know what I mean) but it has a lot of possible meanings, seen etymologically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownie_points
I don't want to live my life worrying about brownie points, but I confess, I do it sometimes. |
Edited by - bewell on Jun 06 2013 3:37:23 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2013 : 8:09:39 PM
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It has really branched out over the years, but 50 years ago in the US, it was definitely connected to the Girl scout Brownies. Wiki says New Zealand slang, but back then it always carried the connotation of looking for encouragement for having done something unimportant. It was because Brownies were little girls, and this was way before political correctness.
I do believe that trash is a huge environmental disaster however, so kudos to you. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 09:54:11 AM
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Well Bewell...
Brownie points with our Ishta is the good karma points I was talking about.
Like Ether said quote:
I do believe that trash is a huge environmental disaster however, so kudos to you.
Yes Crazymandrew, kudos to you for considering this. Thank you!
Bhagawad Geeta Chapter 2, Verse 47:
47. Thy right is to work only, but never to its fruits; let not the fruit-of-action be thy motive, nor let thy attachment be to inaction.
Translation By Swami Chinmayananda: "The stanza gives the four injunctions guiding us to be true workers. A real Karma Yogin is one who understands: (a) that his concern is with action alone; (b) that he has no concern with results; (c) that he should not entertain the motive of gaining a fixed fruit for a given action; and (d) that these ideas do not mean that he should sit back courting inaction. In short, the advice is to make the worker release himself from all his mental pre-occupastions, and thus through work make him live in the joy and ecstasy of inspired self-forgetfulness. The work itself is his reward; he gets himself drunk with the joy and satisfaction of a noble work done. The work is the means; the Higher Self-experience alone is the Goal-Divine." |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 12:22:37 PM
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So "worrying about gaining brownie points" is about "good karma points" -- "the motive of gaining a fixed fruit for a given action."
I think I get what you were saying. |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Jun 07 2013 : 6:41:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
So "worrying about gaining brownie points" is about "good karma points" -- "the motive of gaining a fixed fruit for a given action."
I think I get what you were saying.
Hi Bewell
Yes, it is the good karma points that Shanti is talking about..
Essentially, karma yoga is not what it appears to be. It simply doesn't matter "what" one does - the attitude with which it is done is everything. So in this example, if I wanted to clean forest trails with the expectation that it will benefit the planet or reduce karma, it isn't karma yoga. However, if it is done with merely an intent to do it because I'm drawn to it and care neither about benefitting anyone nor about accruing good karma, that is karma yoga - doing something for the love of it.
There is of course the doing something because it is the right thing to do (dharma). How can we know what the right thing to do is? We could refer to scriptures or teachings (indirect), or, feel it within ourselves with continued cultivation of silence and inquiry (direct).
How come it doesn't count if I do it to benefit someone? Because there is a strong sense of doership there - "I" "helping" the "not I". And karma (good, bad or otherwise) and reincarnation are applicable only to the ego (identification as the separate self). It is this identification that leads to suffering through cycles of pain and pleasure. Once that identification is gone (by seeing that I am not the doer), there is simply no concern (or care) about karma or rebirth. So karma yoga then is about doing something while simultaneously giving up the sense of doership.
How does one do that? Through Bhakti (surrender) and Jnana (knowledge of the true self), the experiential living of both being supported by dhyana (meditation).
So, karma yoga as in the Gita can be summarized as:
"Act for the love of it and because that action is the thing to do, even while knowing that you are not the doer. Through constant inquiry and surrender cultivated in regular practice of meditation (and allied practices), know that your true nature is not the ego but the One, who is the sole doer."
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Edited by - kami on Jun 08 2013 06:33:03 AM |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2013 : 08:30:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
So, karma yoga as in the Gita can be summarized as:
"Act for the love of it and because that action is the thing to do, even while knowing that you are not the doer. Through constant inquiry and surrender cultivated in regular practice of meditation (and allied practices), know that your true nature is not the ego but the One, who is the sole doer."
Thank you kami
My sense is that you practice what you preach, and so the impact on me of what you have written echoes of a doer beyond any of us: stillness in action, outpouring of divine love, and oh the ecstatic conductivity.
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2013 : 09:08:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by bewell
quote:
Originally posted by kami
So, karma yoga as in the Gita can be summarized as:
"Act for the love of it and because that action is the thing to do, even while knowing that you are not the doer. Through constant inquiry and surrender cultivated in regular practice of meditation (and allied practices), know that your true nature is not the ego but the One, who is the sole doer."
Thank you kami
My sense is that you practice what you preach, and so the impact on me of what you have written echoes of a doer beyond any of us: stillness in action, outpouring of divine love, and oh the ecstatic conductivity.
Thank you for the kind words (and heart as wide as the world), my dear friend.
No preaching - we are all growing and learning holding hands (and hearts).
A bit of correction to avoid any confusion - there is no doer in action. This is also congruent with my understanding of the Buddhist teaching of emptiness (for now). So, re-writing the above:
Karma yoga as in the Gita can be summarized as:
"Act for the love of it and because that action is the thing to do, even while knowing that you are not the doer. Through constant inquiry and surrender cultivated in regular practice of meditation (and allied practices), know that your true nature is not the ego and there is only Doing without a doer."
Much love.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 08 2013 : 12:09:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
... there is only Doing without a doer."
Yes, it is a logical paradox, difficult to put into words; and yet we need to find ways of expressing, and sharing these shifts happening in our lives.
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jun 20 2013 : 12:34:58 AM
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I don't disagree with Shanti's or Kami's analyses, above. However, in the strict sense, karma means simply "action," and karma yoga is the yoga of action in the world, being unattached to the results. If that action fulfills one's dharma ("the maintenance of the natural order of things"), so much the better! Egoless service in action.
My goddaughter and I used to make a habit of picking up trash on the beach when we would go surfing. The City provides trashcans about every 100 feet in convenient locations, but despite this, many people for some reason leave their garbage all over the beach (just as they do on nature trails). It was a very enjoyable practice for us and while we didn't do it for any particular reward, it was indeed rewarding to look at the beautiful white sand free of debris. It was just "the thing to do". We, ourselves, as part of Nature, helping to take care of Nature. That seems very yogic to me. |
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Is cleaning trails a legitimate karma practice?
