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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 10:28:09 AM
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Namaste Friends,
I'm wondering if any of you out there have any advice for me. I have been experiencing lots of ecstatic energy in my legs lately but many days I have little to no opportunity for traditional grounding techniques. Here's my situation....
The amount of ecstatic energy that is felt in my legs lately has been steadily increasing over the last month or so. But the nature of my job is such that when I am at work I have to sit at a desk for a 12 hour period with a maximum of a 5 minute break (to go to the bathroom or heat up my lunch etc) once or twice a shift. When the ecstasy is strong in the legs I find my body wanting to stretch and walk and move (and the ecstasy can become overwhelming if I don't do so) but logistically this in not realistic for me (while at work). I am wondering if any of you have any suggestions for alternate grounding techniques that could be used while sitting for long stretches at a time.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Love!
Carson 
P.S> I have been trying to visualize (when I have a spare moment) the energy flowing from my legs down into the earth but I have found this to be not very effective when I am in my office which is 4 floors above ground level. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 11:12:53 AM
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Hi Carson,
When the nadis in the legs become active this in itself is actually grounding. This is because the prana in the body will tend to flow downwards as well as upwards more with active nadis there. So even though there is more ecstasy flowing it will be of a more balanced nature and will tend to lead less towards overload (ecstasy in itself is not energetic overload). In other words you can simply live, and operate in a fully ecstatic state. Sometimes it will be hard to function, but over time you will get more used to functioning in ecstasy, and not worrying about it. |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 05 2012 : 11:35:00 AM
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Hi Christi 
Thanks for that. Unfortunately for me, the nature of my job requires an intense level of presence during my entire shift (which is again 12hrs long with no breaks) and people's lives are literally on the line. I work in one of the main railway traffic control tower in North America and take emergency calls from locomotive engineers who are having problems that range from mechanical/electrical problems to trains that have hit someone committing suicide (this happens multiple times a week) to 4400HP diesel engines that are on fire and beyond. And when the ecstasy is as intense as it has been lately it makes it extremely difficult to stay as present as I need to be in order to do my job properly and effectively. What I end up having to do is stop all practices for months at a time in order to decrease the amount of ecstasy enough to remain fully present with the emergency situations I am presented with all day long (I average over 70 emergency calls in a 12 hour shift).
I basically stopped all practices for the first 4 months of 2012 to regain some energetic balance, began practicing once a day (3mins SBP, 15mins of DM and 15 mins of rest) for the month of May and began practicing twice a day in June until about a week ago when I realized I needed to go back to once a day due to the overwhelming ecstasy and inability to stay present at work. I've found that I've become increasingly sensitive to my environment and whenever I am physically ungrounded (like when I am in a car or at work and 4 stories off the ground) the ecstasy increases dramatically and I find myself having mystical experiences and orgasmic sensations that make it extremely hard to function "normally." Quitting my job is not an option at this point so I end up having to back off of practices in order to decrease the ecstatic sensations and sensitivity. Yes, I agree that this could be viewed as "not overload" but either way, I need to find a solution here and I'm hoping I can find one that allows me to continue with twice daily practices.
Hope this clarifies the situation a bit better.
Love!
Carson |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2012 : 12:19:12 AM
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Greetings Carson,
Since I've been young, I've had bouts of "nervous leg syndrome", which I now understand in the context of ecstatic energy. There are multiple ways I have dealt with this, and since I also work a desk job with limited break time, I can relate to your predicament.
One thing I do is sit in some kind of cross-legged position in the office chair (sometimes with shoes off). Not sure if you can get away with sitting that way, but it helps me. Another thing I've found to be helpful is a kind of targeted bastrika (without the fast breathing/panting component) in the legs and below the waist. I like to circle the spinal nerve around all my joints and muscles--from the toes to the naval.
I'm constantly typing, talking on the phone, and using my hands, so the the legs and lower body often get neglected. Using the spinal nerve creatively helps: weaving, sewing, looping, making infinity-sign figure eights with the Nerve.
In terms of stretching, one thing that helps is, again, being a little creative with the feet. You can make shapes, draw letters, etc. with your feet under your desk (without having to stand up). It's kind of like imagining that your feet have the same capability as your hands...which is almost true, if you consider the people who have lost their hands and adapted by using their feet (to use utensils, play cards, even drive a car).
Good luck man, and I totally understand! Again, the spinal nerve can be like a pressure washer (to quote Yogani), so don't be afraid to use it! |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Jul 06 2012 12:27:46 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2012 : 01:46:43 AM
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Hi Carson,
You need to be able to do your job, so if twice-daily practices are stopping you from doing that effectively, then you would have to either cut back on practice times or do more grounding, or both. That is, until you are able to function happily at a more heightened ecstatic state. It might be a transition that takes only a few weeks or months. |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2012 : 01:56:21 AM
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Sometimes there are small tricks that might be worth a try... I just learned a mudra that is very grounding immediately.
On both hands, you curl index finger and middle finger max, and then put your thumb over both fingers and let the ring finger and baby finger just relax. Worth a try. I calms me pretty good and takes the energy down and back to ground. |
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woosa
United Kingdom
382 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2012 : 08:16:45 AM
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Hi Carson
When I had too much energy flowing and muscle pains and ecstasy I looked into vitamins and minerals because my diet was/is not great (damn recession).
Magnesium Glycinate worked for me immediately and has done so ever since. (I still feel the ecstasy but it has taken a step down; much more inner silence and bliss is prevalent now). It seems that a lot of us do not consume enough magnesium. Like we need to eat 5 cups of spinach or 10 bananas a day to get enough! That sounds a bit tedious. 
Magnesium is required to carry the electrical signals through the nervous system (so I am told). Well, us Kundalini surfers have a lot of those electrical signals happening, so I reckon we might need an optimum amount of magnesium to keep up.
If you do try it keep away from oxide because it doesn't absorb very well and you end up getting the squits. I think the same is said with citrate too, but I haven't tried it. |
Edited by - woosa on Jul 06 2012 08:19:40 AM |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 06 2012 : 10:24:06 AM
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Hi Everyone and thank you all for the help and feedback! 
@Bodhi: I've tried sitting in both siddhasana and lotus posture at work, but it's not very feasible to do this for a couple of reasons. One, I'm required to wear "business casual" attire at work so I'm in dress pants/shoes/shirt and they severely reduce my flexibility (unless I want to rip the ass outta my pants anyway  ), Two, my feet are required to press a pedal to activate my radio headset, and Three, I got in sh*t from a superior for sitting in lotus (told it was "not appropriate"). Also, I find sitting crosslegged has my awareness wanting to go inwards and that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. 
I will however try your technique of bringing the awareness down to the legs and working with the energy there. That's sort of what I had been trying with the practice of trying to pull energy down to the earth from the legs, but maybe if I try to just circulate the energy from the toes to the navel I will have more success. Will let you know if that helps. Thanks!
@Christi: "...if twice-daily practices are stopping you from doing that effectively, then you would have to either cut back on practice times or do more grounding, or both."
Yes, I've cut my practices down to the last practice set that I was stable at (once a day, 3mins SBP, 15mins DM, 15min rest) and I try to get as much grounding as possible. I've found it very challenging to get enough grounding time in though with the schedule I currently have. I have a garden/yard I try to work in for an hour or so a day (when working) and several hours a day when not working, but I'm finding it challenging to find that perfect balance between practice and grounding without nearly cutting out practices all-together.
"That is, until you are able to function happily at a more heightened ecstatic state."
I can't wait for that! What is happening right now is that I will have these strong 'urges' to stretch/move my legs and doing so will result in rushes of ecstatic energy that have my eyes rolling back in my head, my breath being taken away, goosebumps showing up over my whole body, and I begin having visions that take me a minute or two to come back from. It feels very much like a "valley orgasm" and I find it hard to not get sucked inwards during this. I hope that someday I will be able to just allow the sensations to flow without losing awareness of what is directly in front of me in "regular 3D reality" but I'm certainly not there yet!
@emc: Wonderful!! This is exactly the kind of stuff I'm looking for... ways to ground that can be done anywhere, anytime, without disrupting the flow of activity too much. I will try this out here at work today and report back with my findings. Today is a good day to test it out too as the energy is very very strong right now and it should be easy to notice how this mudra affects it.
@Woosa: Great info!! My diet is fairly good (I'm a vegetarian and I am very conscious of making sure I get all the nutrients and vitamins I need) and I recently decided to radically up my water intake as I had an intution that I was chronically dehydrated, but I'm not entirely sure I'm getting enough Magnesium. I have been working with a friend who is studying to become a nutritionist so I will ask her what foods are high in Magnesium Glycinate and will try upping my intake of that and see if it helps.
Thank you all very much for taking the time to help advise me. I truly appreciate the loving guidance you have each shared with me.
Love!
Carson |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2012 : 12:15:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I got in sh*t from a superior for sitting in lotus (told it was "not appropriate").
Those mother****ing superiors!!! [Laughing my maniacal, rebellious cackle ] Can't a man sit in lotus these days!!
Yes, the trick with the energy in the lower body, again, is to be creative and playful. That's the one thing those mother****ing superiors can't censor: the inner world of imagination. Therefore, take advantage! Be plastic and pretty on the outside, but wild and free on the inside! [Again, insert here an audio sound of maniacal laughter trailing off with an echo effect...I'm thinking The Joker from Batman...Jack Nicholson's version, not Heath Ledger's (God bless his soul)]. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2012 : 09:35:09 AM
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Hi Carson,
for 5-6 weeks now, I've added the appendix-part of the Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas book as I got ill every 3-4 weeks due to lack of movement as of sitting the whole day for studying, reaching sometimes 14+ hours for some days aswell.
After 3 weeks of that addition not only the ills decreased but also a stability for higher voltage functioning started. As a side effect the food intake trippled the last 2 weeks ^^ so the whole metabolism speeded up and the body is sweating a lot more. But all in all this physical strength Yogani is promising of his 15 minutes appendix program really includes subtle "strength" aswell.
It's funny to observe the extreme situations we are put in again and again battling with our practices every time... But whatever may come, we shall come out victoriously again and again aswell ;) |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 12:17:11 PM
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Dear Carson
quote:
Yes, I agree that this could be viewed as "not overload" but either way, I need to find a solution here and I'm hoping I can find one that allows me to continue with twice daily practices.
Life put you in that job because you are exactly fitted for it right now. You are exactly what the environment there needs. This is how life works always. We are always in the place where the optimal win win can take place. If we let it. It is just that we often have other plans..... Our idea of "win" is most often not in tune with the real win.
In my experience, always aiming for "higher states" is also a way of getting lost. Where we are actually at may not be what we prefer.....but is that not always the case if we do not experience according to our expectations?
Every truly useful insight happens only where we are actually at. So in my experience, I may call high ecstatic states "not overload" as much as I want - but is it not a fact that anything that removes one from the sober balance point where being is flowing in tune with the rest of nature has little to do with our desire to "become highly ecstatic" ? Why do we desire this so badly? Why do we desire this ecstatic bliss more than what life actually gives us every moment? What life has to say - does it not count?
To me, it looks very much like this job needs your sobriety - not your ecstacy. And since the job is not separate from life in general, it is also a very clear message of what you need to "not do".....if i can put it that way. In my experience, to function properly....is always to be totally sober. That said - energy in the feet can rush into the ground like Christi said. But since it does not do that for you my guess is that the energy is felt other places too. In other words...something is also "going up".
Balance - which is always the crucial point .... is a "spreading out" of the energy. It is then quiet. Not ecstatic.
To be lived is deadly serious. It is also deep joy....but that joy is not to dwell on or expect. It comes and goes of its own accord just like any other wind.
From all the years living as an ecstatic and then coming back from the habit of wanting "more of God, Truth, Life"....... I can truly say that nothing has given more peaceful joy and peace than doing what I must do. With no expectations of any states or enhancement for myself. Just simply follow whatever it is life brings...and do my best to listen and deliver. That is all.
Sobriety is peaceful, clear, and the heart opens in the honesty that is impossible to miss....if we only wish to see and act on what we see, more than we wish to be.
Other than this, my advise to you would be to look at what happens right before you feel a rise of the energy. See if you can see what your motivation is behind the things that you do. At work and elsewhere. See if the rise of energy comes as a response to you feeling pressured, sad, bored or any other difficult feeling. See if you want the idea of enlightenment more than the challenging day after day being with yourself as you are. And remember the motivation can be very quick and subtle....hidden, since we do not wish to see it...it is habit established over a long time. Also - see if you are after thrills more than the quietness that comes with just being.
And last but not least.....this is my experience. It may not ring true for you, it may not be what is true for you. But here it is anyway :)
Big hug |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 2:26:19 PM
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Hi Everyone, thanks again for all the help.
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Be plastic and pretty on the outside, but wild and free on the inside!
Bodhi: Actually I'm still fairly "wild and free" even on the outside, hahaha!! I may be dressed in the usual "corporate attire" but even when I'm dressed for work you can still see that I have "_SILENT_" tattooed on my knuckles, a patch of psychedelic mushrooms growing on the top of my hand and an "AUM" symbol tattooed on my neck. Makes for some interesting conversation at work. 
Thanks again for the suggestion to play with the energies in the lower half of the body. After testing things out for the last couple of days I now understand that I have to keep the "playing" to the legs only. Playing with the energy in the pelvis or the navel areas has some destabilizing effects for me. Playing with the energy in the pelvis to navel area has me feeling incredibly lustful (something I already have longstanding personal tendencies towards) and filled with uncomfortable anxious energies similar to an "adrenaline dump." Playing with the energies in the legs alone however seems to stimulate a "grounded ecstasy" that is probably something like what Christi was talking about earlier in this thread.
Anyway, thanks again for the advice my brother. _/\_
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
for 5-6 weeks now, I've added the appendix-part of the Asanas, Mudras and Bandhas book as I got ill every 3-4 weeks due to lack of movement as of sitting the whole day for studying, reaching sometimes 14+ hours for some days aswell.
After 3 weeks of that addition not only the ills decreased but also a stability for higher voltage functioning started.
Holy: I just grabbed my AM&B's book off the shelf and have had a quick refresher on what was in the appendix. The exercise routine Yogani has laid out seems mostly doable for me except for the aerobic workout part. Finding the time for that these days is going to be extremely challenging. The muscle toning routine I can do at home and can include my daughter in it in a way that doesn't take away from the precious short amount of time I have to spend with her (which is the main reason why it is going to be challenging to find the time to get aerobic exercise mentioned in the book). She loves to sit/lay on my back while I do pushups (which I already do) and she can sit on my shoulders while I do knee bends etc. I just have to be careful that I am keeping the balance between my own needs (for grounded spiritual growth) and my family's needs (for my engaged presence).... at least as much as I can. It's a juggling act for sure. 
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
In my experience, always aiming for "higher states" is also a way of getting lost. Where we are actually at may not be what we prefer.....but is that not always the case if we do not experience according to our expectations?
Katrine: Yes, for sure. And slowly, soooooo slowly I am learning to let go of my preferences, one by one. In this case however, I'm not actually aiming for a "higher state." I'm aiming for a "balanced state." One where I can remain fully present no matter what is happening either inside or out.
The desire to continue with twice daily practices is not because I want more ecstasy, there's enough of that... the desire for a stable twice daily practice is because .... um, well actually, I don't know how to finish that sentence. I'm going to have to let that come to me in it's own time I think. Will come back to that when I know the answer.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Other than this, my advise to you would be to look at what happens right before you feel a rise of the energy. See if you can see what your motivation is behind the things that you do. At work and elsewhere. See if the rise of energy comes as a response to you feeling pressured, sad, bored or any other difficult feeling.
I've actually been lucky enough to already notice what generally stimulates the rise of energy to an overly ecstatic level... what usually happens is there is a conversation or some sort of exchange (not always verbal) that occurs, and the result of the exchange is a "loosening" of tension in my body. The "loosening" results in a releasing of energy, or perhaps an unobstructing of energy. What I've noticed is that there are certain exchanges that result in a constricting in the body and certain exchanges that result in a loosening in the body. The "constricting exchanges" result in an increase of mental activity and physical tension. The "loosening exchanges" result in ecstatic flows, mental relaxation, and a dramatic increase in "happiness." I should mention though that I recognize a difference between what I would term "ecstatic happiness" and "quiet happiness." Ecstatic happiness is not what I would call stable. Quiet happiness is unshakable.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
See if you want the idea of enlightenment more than the challenging day after day being with yourself as you are.
Of course I do. 
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
see if you are after thrills more than the quietness that comes with just being.
There is a wavering with this particular inquiry. Like the mind and the heart are split here. I can recognize a part of me that wants the drama of the "thrills" and a part of me that is done with that and just wants "quiet love." There has been a general trend towards less thrills and more quietness over the last 5 or so years, but there is still a particular tendency to go looking for drama and thrilling experiences. Something I could probably do well to stay conscious of in the future.
Thanks again everyone for all the advice. I feel very grateful that I can use this place as a sounding board and that it reflects in such a stunningly clear way what I always need to see.
Love!
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 3:22:07 PM
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Dear Carson
quote:
In this case however, I'm not actually aiming for a "higher state." I'm aiming for a "balanced state." One where I can remain fully present no matter what is happening either inside or out.
In each moment there is a balance point that is according to where we are currently at.... and it is not according to a future 100 % presence. So that means always taking into consideration what we are occupied with as well as our surroundings as well as our innerness......and trust that when you listen and act accordingly....then this is the best 100 % we can do at any time. It includes being with the fact that we are not fully present. Taking that into consideration is also compassionate.
It is not so difficult as it looks....we often make it more complicated.
1. Your presence is needed at work
2. Your ecstatic legs take you out of presence
Life wants you at work, otherwise you would not be there. So that means reducing the factor that currently takes you out of presence.
If there is no time for grounding then this is also brought to you by life. It is not a mistake. So what else can you do other than make sure you reduce that which increases the ecstacy?
What happens inside you if meditation is "taken away from you" ?
Yes - a release happens when there is a let go. In a fraction of a second before the energy arises though, there is a choice not to fall into the blissfullness of the release. For me....where the habit of going ecstatic was established and indulged in for so many years......it was very hard to break. Because that fraction of a second was hidden to me. It had become an automatic pattern to surge with the energy.
I am glad it is not like that for you Carson. That's a relief to hear. I wonder what your definition of balance is though...because it sounds very absolute to me. And that is then again just another way of "wanting more than what is naturally here".
Do you trust life enough to show you what not to do without engaging in practices that stimulates the energy right now?
Much love to you
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 4:36:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
Bodhi: Actually I'm still fairly "wild and free" even on the outside, hahaha!! I may be dressed in the usual "corporate attire" but even when I'm dressed for work you can still see that I have "_SILENT_" tattooed on my knuckles, a patch of psychedelic mushrooms growing on the top of my hand and an "AUM" symbol tattooed on my neck. Makes for some interesting conversation at work.
Nice! I guess it was more of a rhetorical affirmation of your current wildness than a direction to start being wild. I know I'm preaching to the choir. I've never had the courage to get a tattoo, but I were to get one, I think I would get Aslan, the lion from Chronicles of Narnia, right on my chest. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 5:39:40 PM
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Katrine,
Hope you don't mind me chiming in on your comments, but I find it very interesting to study your trajectory. It seems like you came to AYP with lots of gusto for ecstatic experiences, and now you're experiencing a substantial refinement to ecstatic bliss, so much so that the yearning for more ecstasy has subsided (perhaps extinguished). Bravo!
It's funny, you throw around the word "sobriety" in a context that seems to mean: an acute, intense, dead-serious awareness of the present moment in time and space. I.E., whatever a person is doing in their body on the Earth plane is of the utmost importance, more so than any ecstatic experience (in different realms with different beings, maybe).
Sobriety, to me, means something quite different. Sobriety is an absence of, and freedom from, drugs and alcohol. I come from a family of hardcore addicts, and being one myself, I've had to understand what to do with this addictive disposition which is deeply rooted in my karma. What I've found is this: the addict does NOT die; instead, the addict is re-directed and finds a new devotion via spiritual bhakti, dreaming and following an ishta, and endeavoring on an adventure of ecstatic blissful expansion.
You see? The adventurous and exploratory nature is not tamed, squelched or pacified. It's funny, having read so much of the neo-Buddhists and vast amount of spiritual teachers that constantly emphasize "being here now", and just abiding in the present moment (again, in Earth time and space ), I now understand why people of the addictive persuasion cannot swallow that pill. It's a very passive, neutral approach to spiritual living--denying that ecstatic spiral that wants to propel us up, up, up and away to higher dimensions. (It's probably no coincidence that such teachers of "mindfulness" rarely talk about the power and potential of the sexual act.)
We can BE HERE NOW, and still have an ever-expanding ecstatic experience (cosmic samyama, for instance...an awareness of the vast and deeply connected cosmos, which certainly contains advanced life that will be able to help us poor Earthlings). Ecstasy isn't just a rush of blood or surge of emotions; it's a genius communication of personal prana with the rest of creation.
But, to each his/her own, and may each proceed at their own pace. I just wanted to caution you against an attempt to stifle, sedate, or neutralize the inner call of anyone's bhakti, which says: More, more, more. For us addicts, it's not really an option to squelch that desire. The only option is to apply self-pacing. But to give up the adventure? Absolutely not.
I understand and celebrate the necessity of being content with our current life situation (I do it everyday in a multitude of ways in a multitude of relationships with normal people just like me), but I also recognize the equally valuable propensity to move forward, to evolve to higher functioning, and to dare to dream--and might as well dream BIG. As Yogani says: Dare to dream, and dare to act on your dream.
Just my two cents. Thanks for your posts! |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Jul 09 2012 7:50:31 PM |
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 6:22:30 PM
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Hello Carson,
I was immediately reminded of your earlier post about meditation.
Now I hear that life calls you to focus, to live a life that does not require ecstasy, but rather, asks you to focus, for the sake of others.
It's quite possible for anyone to do a 'mundane' job in a high energy state, but obviously not if they are lost in ecstasy.
Are you able to ask your Bhakti-self to redirect itself to serving others through focus and presence?
What would you see, if you reviewed the pattern of your situation, without preferring an answer?
Resolution is rarely far away.
Namaste |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 8:03:16 PM
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Bodhi Tree echoes some of my own thoughts in response to some of the many ideas being raised in general. I can only speak out from what is true to me here and now, knowing that my picture is but a fragment of the greater whole being hinted at by the vast collection of yogis and other seers who, over time, came to the point of reaching out with a philosophical system backed by a multitude of experiences, along with the very tools necessary to translate that philosophy back into its experiential origins.
I know little of ecstatic energy, but once I put the philosophy and my 'inner guru's' yearnings together, a figurative light came on, along with much greater devotion and commitment to the higher ideals of the possibilities. To me, such energy is the way to greater awareness as it opens the subtle faculties of consciousness, which in turn give way to ever-deeper levels of inner silence, and so on. I can see this happening, but at micro-scales. Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj for one assures us that ecstatic energy either 'burns out the brain' or refines to more subtle levels. The nervous system will have to adjust just like any other natural system as it moves to a different state of balance, and it is for that the methods are provided.
It is equally valid to propose another concept: It is unnatural and not genuine to continue on in ordinary non-doing, passive surrender, without one's ishta, after having even the slightest sense of 'something more'. Who is counting, and are such concepts really necessary? What is more certain is the mind has a stake in clinging to the state of sleep. I see self-discovery (personality, traits, subconscious tendencies) to only be enhanced by one's sadhana, and if self-pacing is in order, that too will happen on its own.
Even a sound theory can have its hazards when it is translated from intuition into some state of being. It is like feedback, being self-conscious and stagnating action where action is self-evident and spontaneous. I have lived by several of these 'higher principles' until they ran their natural course, prompting my awareness, and being dispelled by simple inquiry. It doesn't make such principles false, only that they are more like effects than causes (to borrow what the lessons say), and don't necessarily have any direct active role when it comes to daily living. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2012 : 9:48:53 PM
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| Powerful, AumNaturel! Your words are crisp and effervescent, like sparkling water. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 01:07:05 AM
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Hi Bodhi Tree
Thank you for your clear post and very valid comments.
If my posts suggests that one should throw away ones ishta, thanks much for chiming in. This is not what I ment to say.
My post is directed to Carson and so the things emphasized in it is in a way tailor made for his ears. But this is a forum where it is read by many and I sometimes forget the consequences of that. Thanks for the reminder.
Sobriety is for me a freedom from the intoxicated state. That state made balance very difficult for me. Like you say, to each his own, and the refinement you talk about with regards to the energetic opening of the nervous system was greatly helped here by realizing that my Bhakti nature indeed had me off on a tangent with regards to the ecstatic energy. I was using the energy to worship the worship. It was very hard for me to distinguish between my desire for God/Truth and my tendency to use that desire as a "padding" or "way out" of whatever challenging situation life had me in.
quote:
We can BE HERE NOW, and still have an ever-expanding ecstatic experience (cosmic samyama, for instance...an awareness of the vast and deeply connected cosmos, which certainly contains advanced life that will be able to help us poor Earthlings). Ecstasy isn't just a rush of blood or surge of emotions; it's a genius communication of personal prana with the rest of creation.
The way I see it everything is a genius communication with the rest of creation. And it is the ability to be able to acknowledge that in every mundane moment without leaving the earth, our physicality or psyche behind that I find very helpful with regards to really being here now. The way I see it, getting help from the interconnected cosmos may happen in many different ways - as many as there are beings in fact. Life operates through us all. That means truly taking into account that we are all different. What works for one does not necessarily work for all. What works for one does not even necessarily work forever for that being.
Life is already living us. The cosmos is represented in every speck of us and the expansion of consciousness happens in its own tempo. Finding out what that tempo is (the balance point) for each and one of us is really surrendering to what life wants. For ecstatic addicts like me, more ecstacy is not reccomended. It is not wise to "fly high" with the expansion of consciousness for me. And in my experience, when that readiness happened, the desire to fly high with the expansion had fallen away. Instead there is clarity of what needs to be done. That is all. It does not have any gusto or fireworks, but it is definitely real, deeply meaningful, serious, joyous and always challenging. It also completely removes the doubt in life.
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It's funny, you throw around the word "sobriety" in a context that seems to mean: an acute, intense, dead-serious awareness of the present moment in time and space. I.E., whatever a person is doing in their body on the Earth plane is of the utmost importance, more so than any ecstatic experience (in different realms with different beings, maybe).
Yes. To me it is obvious that I am in this earthly realm. Life placed me here for a reason. My heart is true to that.
This does not mean that it cannot be otherwise for someone else. I am totally open to that.
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For us addicts, it's not really an option to squelch that desire. The only option is to apply self-pacing. But to give up the adventure? Absolutely not.
Yes I see that. I guess that is what I failed to take into consideration in my post. I never ment to ask Carson to give up the adventure. No! It is the very gist of why we are here in the first place: To experience, extract the essence of wisdom, and move on as life does it. Whatever is extracted is immediately helpful for someone else, and that is what it is all about for me.
For me the adventure simply changed dramatically once I was able to see through my addiction. Really see through it as in understanding the dynamics behind it. Why the need was there. I did not give up the adventure...as in a resignation. I gave up my need to own it. My need to have it for myself. I gave up my idea of being in service. When the ecstacy was not for me, then finally it became possible for it to spread out more evenly. Life became my ishta you could say. Except that I never think of it that way. Since it is everywhere. Before that all my ishtas served very well as vehicles of openings. But when the worshipping of the worship became a place to land, life showed (through consequences) it was time to move on.
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I understand and celebrate the necessity of being content with our current life situation
What I find helpful is to acknowledge that I may not be content. And then be ok with that. Not wanting contentment more than what is. I am not advocating a forced "be here now without doing anything for that to happen". It is very hard work to surrender to life, it is the most challenging endeavor we can engage in. It takes all the time and energy we have at our disposal....so no wonder patience is needed.
Thanks again for chiming in with some very needed balance Bodhi Tree.
Much love |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 01:45:45 AM
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Hi Katrine
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
What happens inside you if meditation is "taken away from you" ?
What happens inside me if there is no meditation at all is a lot of turmoil. I become well entrenched in the dramas of life and I start to treat people in ways that do not align with my (what you call) "heart rudder." And then (because I am saddened by my conduct) I start in with my tendency towards self-deprecation and I begin to act and think in ways that are self-destructive.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
I wonder what your definition of balance is though...because it sounds very absolute to me. And that is then again just another way of "wanting more than what is naturally here".
Well, I guess my definition of balance would be something like, "Being fully aware of both my inner nature and my outer nature in each moment." And yes, this is another way of "wanting more than what is naturally here" when I am not currently "in balance."
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Originally posted by Katrine
Do you trust life enough to show you what not to do without engaging in practices that stimulates the energy right now?
Yes, I do trust that life will show me what to do/not to do if I stop engaging in practices. What I don't trust is my ability to listen to Life's subtle cues if I am not engaged in practices. This tends to be corroborated with my previous experience.
Thanks again for being willing to help me see clearer here. 
Love!
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 03:26:20 AM
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Dear Carson
quote:
What happens inside me if there is no meditation at all is a lot of turmoil. I become well entrenched in the dramas of life and I start to treat people in ways that do not align with my (what you call) "heart rudder." And then (because I am saddened by my conduct) I start in with my tendency towards self-deprecation and I begin to act and think in ways that are self-destructive.
I see.
That is a lot to deal with.
Have you experimented with how much you can reduce your meditation times and still be benefitted with less turmoil? You did nothing for 4 months and in May you went straight into 15 min once a day and a month later the same twice a day. Was that rapid adding on something you did because you saw that once a day was not enough to stop you from being self-destructive? Or was there other drives behind it?
quote:
Well, I guess my definition of balance would be something like, "Being fully aware of both my inner nature and my outer nature in each moment." And yes, this is another way of "wanting more than what is naturally here" when I am not currently "in balance."
I see.
For me balance has to do with being able to operate from where I am actually at. Not where I am supposed to be according to a standard. A standard is never real on its own. So for me, being balanced involves looking honestly at myself (my humanity) to the best of my current ability, acknowledge what I see and take that into consideration when moving around in the world. What is revealed when the motivation is to see what is actually happening is always the exact thing we need to see in order to open further. But honesty like that can be very painful. Therefore we are not asked to do it all at once. One incident at a time. So that body, heart, psyche and spirit have a chance to follow.
Inner turmoil is also exaggerated in the gap between expectations and reality as it is. Do you think there is a chance that your turmoil is overwhelming because your expectation of yourself is out of proportion with life? When you observe the actions springing from your inner turmoil you acknowledge that you are not able to stop the self-destructivness of your own accord. As it is right now anyway. So meditation is needed. But are you sure that is the only reason you meditate? Have you really looked into how much is needed? Why so much as 15 min when it is clear that it produces too much ecstacy for you to handle at work? Balance would be to find out exactly how little you can do in order to open in the pace life offers. That would be far more compassionate too.
Sorry to keep going on and on about this Carson....I am only posing these questions because if there are hidden motivations, it would be so helpful to acknowledge them. In that acknowledgement the heart immediately opens and then compassion (warmth) has a chance to flow and make the pain more bearable.
Much love to you dear Carson
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 04:00:37 AM
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Hi BuddhiHermit
quote:
Originally posted by BuddhiHermit
Are you able to ask your Bhakti-self to redirect itself to serving others through focus and presence?
Not entirely sure what you mean by this. Well, that's not totally true, I believe I understand what you are getting at, I'm just not sure what this would look like? I assume you mean; "Have you tried setting an intention (perhaps releasing that intention in samyama) to have the ecstasy used in a different way?" Is that what you are getting at here?
quote:
Originally posted by BuddhiHermit
What would you see, if you reviewed the pattern of your situation, without preferring an answer?
It's hard to say for sure. I'm going to have to let that one sit for a bit I think.
Love!
Carson |
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CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 04:30:55 AM
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Hi Katrine
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Have you experimented with how much you can reduce your meditation times and still be benefitted with less turmoil? You did nothing for 4 months and in May you went straight into 15 min once a day and a month later the same twice a day. Was that rapid adding on something you did because you saw that once a day was not enough to stop you from being self-destructive? Or was there other drives behind it?
I began practicing again (after approx 4 months off) because I felt that I had passed the balance point again, just in the opposite direction this time (too much outer not enough inner... or at least that is how I would "term" it). So I began with the 3mins SBP, 15mins of DM and a 15min rest. That went really well and things were nice and stable (a good balance of inner and outer natures) so after approx 1 month I added the second practice set. I did this because there was a very strong desire for more of a good thing (a deeply entrenched tendency I am aware of but often only in hindsight). The second practice brought on the increase in ecstasy but it took a good three weeks for the ecstatic sensations to get to the point where they were negatively affecting my work (although I felt **really** good).
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
For me balance has to do with being able to operate from where I am actually at. Not where I am supposed to be according to a standard.
Is it even possible to operate from somewhere we are not? I may want to operate from a different place than I am, but even then I am still operating from where I am at am I not? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Inner turmoil is also exaggerated in the gap between expectations and reality as it is. Do you think there is a chance that your turmoil is overwhelming because your expectation of yourself is out of proportion with life?
Absolutely. The expectation is that after all the spiritual practices, all the openings and realizations, I will be a happier, more loving, more compassionate, less angry, more patient, father, husband, friend and co-worker. This is not my experience... at least not after several months of stopping all practices.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
When you observe the actions springing from your inner turmoil you acknowledge that you are not able to stop the self-destructivness of your own accord. As it is right now anyway. So meditation is needed. But are you sure that is the only reason you meditate?
No that's not the only reason I meditate but it's a big part of it. I also meditate because I am (generally) a happier person when I do. And when I am happy, I treat people (including myself) with more respect, gratitude and love, and there is a "clearer seeing" that results in more insight into and awareness of "reality." I have a personal preference towards treating people the way I would like to be treated, but I have a challenging time with this (sometimes) when I am not engaged in a properly paced practice.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Have you really looked into how much is needed? Why so much as 15 min when it is clear that it produces too much ecstacy for you to handle at work? Balance would be to find out exactly how little you can do in order to open in the pace life offers. That would be far more compassionate too.
The once a day practice I was engaged in in May and am now engaged in in July seems to be just the right amount of practice for my body/mind to handle at this time. Could I go with less? Of course. Could I deal with more? Perhaps. Either way I know I have a tendency to want more so I often rationalize things in a way that allows my mind to justify doing more.... and more... and more.
quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
Sorry to keep going on and on about this Carson....I am only posing these questions because if there are hidden motivations, it would be so helpful to acknowledge them. In that acknowledgement the heart immediately opens and then compassion (warmth) has a chance to flow and make the pain more bearable.
Don't be sorry, I'm truly grateful for your time and clarity. Much love to you Katrine.
Love!
Carson |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 09:20:04 AM
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Dear Carson
quote:
Is it even possible to operate from somewhere we are not?
No.
But it is possible to not know this.
And that creates more suffering and confusion. It also takes energy to maintain every lie we tell ourselves. And in that, less is available for conscious and meaningful living. We are split inside. There is inner conflict. We go back and forth between adhering to the rules of the world/senses and adhering to our inner knowing. We look in the wrong heep....seeking positive reflection out there or thrills or pleasures.
The inner knowing does not have to be absolute in order for it to be useful. It is enough that we know what is actually true for ourselves. We cannot know what we have not seen so I am not talking about that. I am talking about the things we actually have seen inside ourselves. It is enough that I acknowledge the lies that I actually do hear or see inside myself or in my actions. How else am I going to see what is there under that pattern? If we go against our inner knowledge - we become split and we suffer. It is only a misunderstanding that keeps the lies in place. Yet our tendency is to judge ourselves so harshly. It needs compassion....and we all have that in our hearts...all human hearts are warm. It is just the depth (openness) where it is found that varies. In honesty the heart always opens and whatever there is of warmth comes through.
What we usually do when that happens is take the feelings of love....the goodness of it....and then we suck on it like a caramel so that it lasts as long as possible. And we forget that there is a message in the dynamic that just happens. It tells us what not to do next time. But we very quickly forget that part because we do not understand the immense importance of it.
quote:
Either way I know I have a tendency to want more so I often rationalize things in a way that allows my mind to justify doing more.... and more... and more.
Yes. You do know this :)
I totally agree that you cannot just do nothing Carson. You are one of the most honest people I know. It is a powerful tool you have that you can apply in a more compassionate way inside yourself. And it does not stimulate energetic opening the same way your other practices does. Yet it is still very powerful. When you are where you are right now in life....when there is inner recognition (when "cantact" is made with the witness/inner silence) ........then there is also a truth mirror in there...and we can choose to look at it...and compare what we think we know with what we actually see or feel in the heart. And then - when the subtle little voice inside speaks, we can listen and act on it. That inner respectfulness is also deeply meaningful and allows for peace to settle in our butt. That peace is the power/love without the ecstatic stir.
The reason we don't listen to the subtle inner voice is that we don't take it for real. We do not trust it to be true. But in listening...and acting on it little by little.....trust grows. And it is trust that we need more of. Not ecstacy or bliss.
I know you know most of this. And as usual you will wisely take what is for you to hear and leave the rest.
Much love
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jeff
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2012 : 12:26:15 PM
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Hi Carson,
When it happens, have you tried focusing on your legs and just stopping it? "You" are not separate from the energy.
An analogy for you is being in battle, do you "long" to escape it? Bring clarity to moment.
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Namath
350 Posts |
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Ecstatic energy in the legs
