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satinder kumar
15 Posts |
 Posted - May 12 2006 : 11:43:35 AM
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Hello all,
How detached one remains in one's daily life even in minor as well as in serious affairs, is a test of sadhna.In fact,detachment is an important component that is associated with the progress of sadhna.With daily meditation progressing,one finds inner peace settled in one's nervous system.With it,one also evolves detached look.Attachment brings delusion and dispointment.on the other hand,detachment brings inner peace .With detached look,the gap between pleasure and pain starts minimising and ones point of view and perspective also changes.
In the Bhagvad Gita,Lord Krishna advises Arjna to leave attachment and adopt detachment as attachment brought a lot of pain and suffering to Arjna.The message that runs through Gita is of detachment and inner poise.
Detachment comes with deep meditation.As one progresses in meditation and inner peace settles in,a new outlook starts settling in ones nature.Whatever may be the situation- bad or good,one remains poised and take up things as they unfold.Yogi of high calibre ultimately become jivanmukta through detachment.Medico turned yogi Shri Sivananda always laid emphasis on detachment.He used to test his disciple severely.His disciples always feared coming his way.once a disciple happened to come his way.He asked him how the meditation was going on.The disciple answered that he was unable to meditate properly for the last two days.Hearing this Sivananda instructed him not to eat for two days observing fasting so that meditation may be helped.This is the example of how much importance a yogi puts on detachment.
In the path of sadhna,one has to cultivate detachment and
should not allow inner peace be disturbed even while dealing with misfortune.Litmus test of a yogi is how detached he remains under trying circumtances. |
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alan
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 11:54:00 AM
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| Nicely said. Thank you satinder |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 11:59:06 AM
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Hi Satinder,
The beauty of AYP is.. you don't have to start off with detaching yourself from things and then start your sadhana. You start your sadhana and then detachment follows automatically. Then detachment is not an imposition.. it is a pleasure.. it is a part of your true self... it comes naturally..
Just my observation for what it is worth..
-Shanti
Check lesson#149
http://www.aypsite.org/149.html |
Edited by - Shanti on May 12 2006 12:23:11 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 12:21:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Hi Satinder,
The beauty of AYP is.. you don't have to start off with detaching yourself from things and then start your sadhana. You start your sadhana and then detachment follows automatically. Then detachment is not an imposition.. it is a pleasure.. it is a part of your true self... it comes naturally..
Just my observation for what it is worth..
-Shanti
Absolutely perfectly/beautifully stated, Shanti. Good way to sum up centuries of misunderstanding re: the yamas/niyamas.
That said, it's extremely valuable to know what to shoot for. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 12:38:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by satinder kumar
Attachment brings delusion and dispointment.on the other hand,detachment brings inner peace .With detached look,the gap between pleasure and pain starts minimising and ones point of view and perspective also changes.
Amen, brother! Hallelujah, and thanks for the reminder. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2006 : 1:23:29 PM
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| I second Meg. Sorry, Satinder, I didn't mean to give the impression of dissing you by focusing on Shanti's great reply. |
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satinder kumar
15 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2006 : 10:53:36 AM
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Hi all,
Spiritual path is the path of newer...different experienes.You want to share them with like minded people.This was an attempt in that direction.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2006 : 12:09:02 PM
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quote:
Spiritual path is the path of newer...different experienes.You want to share them with like minded people.This was an attempt in that direction.
Thanks Satinder... It was a successful attempt I have to say.. Please do keep them coming. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2006 : 01:19:44 AM
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I'm not sure if the idea of detachment fits very well with worldly life. It did not work well even for Arjuna to whom Krishna addressed the Bhagwat Gita. You know, after the war was over, Arjuna and his brothers were filled with grief that they had killed so many near and dear ones in the war for the sake of duty. In fact they renounced their throne after Krishna's death and became wanderers because they had completely lost their desire to hold on to the kingdom they got after killing so many people.
Let us also think about something what Bhagwat Gita does not seem to address. Detachment Vs Attachment to principles. Krishna said Arjuna was suffering due to his attachment, alright. He was attached to the idea that killing near and dear ones (especially his grandfather Bhisma who was on the enemy side) in war for material victory is not correct. I say his attachment was a good one. Wouldn't we have still praised him if he threw away his bow and arrow and went away to forest saying he can't kill his grandpa? In my opinion Bhagwat Gita says to perform your duty with detachment, but doesn't say what duty is. One has the free will to choose what his duty is, right? |
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satinder kumar
15 Posts |
Posted - Jun 27 2006 : 04:44:38 AM
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Hello,
Detachment does not mean shirking your duty and become renunciate.As you progress in your sadhna, there comes a state of mind when you see things in right perspective.In that state you automatically becomes non-attached.Just as a doctor becomes non-attached while operating upon a patien-not the same case when the patient is his near and dear one.Detachment is a state of mind that comes as you advance in your sadhna.This also means control on every aspect of your life by overviewing things.
As for Arjuna,he had to choose between devil and deep sea.Non-fighting was not the solution of the crisis.He had to fight to salvage his respect.In such a situation,shri krishna guided him rightly.Nobody has benefited from war.Both sides suffer the consequences.That does not mean to let the injustice prevail.
Well,'duty' means whatever Dharma tells you to do...not 'freewilling' yourself to destruction.
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2006 : 12:26:53 AM
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If a trained archer is challenged to shoot the apple kept on a third person's head he will probably shoot it correctly. But he will fear if asked to shoot the apple kept on his dear one's head and even if he shoots he might get his head. You are saying that if he is a yogi, he will still shoot it correctly and this is called detachment.
Ok, but this yogi who correctly shoots the apple, will he have the mentality to rejoice his shooting, or will he simply walk away without a smile? I guess he will do the later, right? It is possible to have the mentality to correctly shoot the apple on a dear one's head, and still be able to rejoice over the victory? |
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Jun 28 2006 : 01:02:40 AM
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Hi Maximus,
Shooting an apple on the head of a dear one is different from wanting to fight as a king to save his land from bad ppl. The former has no purpose attached to it while the latter serves a noble purpose and hence even if dear ones were involved arjuna was expected to fight.
If Arjuna was any normal person, he could have walked away leaving his bow and arrow. But he was the king and was in a position to save his country and over that it happens to be his duty. It is not any selfish want to rule ppl, but an altruistic purpose of saving people from bad rulers. So even if his dear ones are involved, thinking of the good of many, arjuna was expected to fight.
Just my 2 cents
-Near |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 29 2006 : 05:50:30 AM
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| I agree with you with what you say about Arjuna, nearoanoke. But my example of shooting apple has been misunderstood. I only chose this example to enquire how would a detached person behave in a very risky situation. I did not mean shooting the apple in some kind of competition, but in a genuine situation, say shooting a snake sitting on a dear one's head, when they are too far away for you to reach in person before the snake bites. |
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Maximus
India
187 Posts |
Posted - Jun 30 2006 : 04:58:28 AM
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I'm still not sure what dictates one's duty. Satinder said said 'Dharma' dictates duty. But everyone's life is so different that it is difficult to generalize that way. Gautama Buddha had a wife and a son. Common sense/Dharma says it was his duty to take care of them. But he abandoned them and went to the forest in search of truth. He chose his own Dharma. Why don't we call that selfishness? Why does Arjuna alone become a sinner if he refuses to fight for reasons he sees as right?
King Ashoka in ancient India was a great warrior king undefeated in battle. One would say it was his duty as a King to expand his empire. But one day he felt it was wrong to kill people, gave up battles and embraced Buddhism. Didn't he choose his duty instead of following an accepted Dharma for warriors. |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 05:19:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
I'm still not sure what dictates one's duty. Satinder said said 'Dharma' dictates duty. But everyone's life is so different that it is difficult to generalize that way. Gautama Buddha had a wife and a son. Common sense/Dharma says it was his duty to take care of them. But he abandoned them and went to the forest in search of truth. He chose his own Dharma. Why don't we call that selfishness? Why does Arjuna alone become a sinner if he refuses to fight for reasons he sees as right?
King Ashoka in ancient India was a great warrior king undefeated in battle. One would say it was his duty as a King to expand his empire. But one day he felt it was wrong to kill people, gave up battles and embraced Buddhism. Didn't he choose his duty instead of following an accepted Dharma for warriors.
Gautama Buddha had a wife and a son and one of his duties was to take care of them, true. He had to take care of them both materially and spiritually, the latter being much more important. Materially they were quite well off, but not spiritually.. And most significantly Gautama also had compassion and love for all the other living beings he came across and felt an equal obligation to them. He searched and found the Truth and showed the way to others. He took action which he believed would benefit all living beings in the whole of infinity, not just his wife and son. This is not selfishness in terms of limited ego, this is ultimate altruism. To act selflessly, not just for the benefit of those around us but for the benefit of all living beings, that is our true duty. And Dharma coming from the heart, dictates how best to fulfill that duty.
quote:
Originally posted by Maximus
I only chose this example to enquire how would a detached person behave in a very risky situation. I did not mean shooting the apple in some kind of competition, but in a genuine situation, say shooting a snake sitting on a dear one's head, when they are too far away for you to reach in person before the snake bites.
For a detached person, every person is a dear one and no person is a dear one. Maybe there are no persons and its just one. The snake is just as dear as the dear one's head. Fear and nervousness does not come into it no matter how risky the situation.. because one is detached, in a state of inner peace no matter what occurs on the outside. And thus able to make correct decisions based on Dharma, unattached to emotions and egoistic bias. |
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 01:11:42 AM
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Hi Satinder,
It has been my experience, and have noted, the experience of many, that detachment or any other 'desirable' virtue does not come with wanting it there. If we had the power to change ourselves by sheer will, I'm sure there'd be countless saints walking the earth. Which is why what Shanti says, Jim seconds, and I third  . The Yamas and Niyamas can arise naturally and painlessly from the other limbs of Yoga... purification at a deeper level through the spinal breathing and meditation. Other things that are forced act like a compressed spring... the more force you exert to press it down, the more it will spring up when released.
But yes, reminding ourselves of the need for detachment must keep us at it at some level. A yogi said that we have actually no choice in our lifetime other than being detached or attached to what's happening to us. I wonder how true that is. |
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satinder kumar
15 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 03:55:02 AM
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Hello Sadhak,
As yogini said, 'first there should be desire'.Only then other things come into picture. That desire also involves devotion or bhakti. You can practice spinal breathing and other practices but if faith and devotion are lacking then,i think, above practices are nothing more than self hypnosis.Devotion or bhakti has to be cultivated along with kriya practice for inching into true progress.I think,yam -niyam are no more than morality if defined in a single word.Only a devoted person would carry morality with him as a God fearing man would think twice before doing any wrong.Today, teaching someone to be moral,is asking for too much from him.patanjali who is thought to be one of the incarnation of vishnu,did not place yam-niyam first in astang yoga without thought.i would like to know if someone had been benefited by advanced practice as far as yam niyam are concerned.Without being devoted you can't go into deep meditation for long.Great saints like Mahavtar baba,Lahiri Mahasaya,Shri yukteswar,paramhansa yogananda,Ramakrishna paramhansa,Swami vivekananda-to name a few had deep sense of devotion.Detachment is certainly an offshoot of it.
Aum shanti. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2006 : 4:50:35 PM
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Namaste to All!
Vairagya or Detachment is a natural by-product of a properly focused Sadhana. Regular Concentration of the Mind (Dharana) on the temporary nature of attachments to the objects of desire allows the mind to focus on the fact that a time existed in this life when every attachment to desire gratification was not yet implanted in mental consciousness. Logic would suggest, therefore, that attachments to objects of desire, like everything else which has a beginning or starting point in personal awareness, also has an ending point. This is the true nature of all Illusions! They have no part in the Ultimate Reality of Brahman! They are NOT Eternal, Immutable, or Unconditioned, but are instead very temporary, ever changeable, and always accompanied by many qualifying conditions. 
Thus, through Concentration on a time before the attachment was formed and implanted in consciousness, the mind realizes that the end of such desires and attachments is simply a returning to, and thereafter abiding in, a place of Silence and Serenity where desires and their attachments don't exist, and thus do not call the mind to pursue them. 
The 'flip side' of this traditional yogic 'returning' technique is to 'fast forward' mentally to a place where one's desires and attachments have been thoroughly consumed. This method consists of nothing more than imagining every possible way in which desires and attachments could potentially be gratified, until no other outlet can be visualized. When the point of exhausted imagination and visualization has been reached, the mind is at the same point that would be reached by returning to the time prior to any formation of the desires and attachments. And so, ultimately, the state of mind experienced in both the 'before' and the 'after' states of Consciousness is the same....residing quietly and serenely in At-One-Ment with the Divine.
Either or both of these two techniques can be effectively employed to neutralize and remove all Illusions from one's Consciousness, without exception. The 'Source of All That Is' which is encountered in both the 'before' and 'after' States of Consciousness is the True Self....the Unchanging, Immutable, Unconditioned, Immortal Self of Brahman! Through gradual and progressive fixation of unwavering mental attention on this Ultimate Reality (Brahman) in Deep Meditation (Dhyana), the spiritual obstruction of all desire attachment is finally released and removed permanently!
http://www.hinduwisdom.info/images/...mbolism2.gif
http://www.muktinath.org/images/hin...er/shiva.jpg
http://bvml.org/SSG/Sanatana.jpg
Hari OM!
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Nov 07 2006 7:20:01 PM |
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satinder kumar
15 Posts |
Posted - Nov 17 2006 : 03:33:34 AM
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Hello DOC
One of the best way to detach oneself from day to day affairs is to see things as witness. This witnessing comes as you evolve in your sadhna.Mind always spin web of thoughts to keep man entangle to the life's daily grinding.To see the things as witness remind you thatyou have to see things from a reasonable dstance.Evolve this habit along with yogic practice and see the difference.Feelings of lust,anger,greed and affection come and go.If we let them spend themselves with careful monitering then they will affect us the least and they will create less imprints[sadhna] on our mind.
Aum Shanti |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2006 : 03:35:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by satinder kumar
To see the things as witness reminds you that you have to see things from a reasonable distance. Aum Shanti
Namaste Kumar!
The shortfall of the 'witnessing' technique is that it retains the Duality Consciousnes of a 'Seer' and 'that which is seen', a 'Witness' and 'that which is witnessed', even when seen or witnessed "from a reasonable distance".
All true Yoga ultimately evolves into intimate spiritual 'Union' with All in God (Brahman) as Unconditioned Existence, Pure Consciousness, and Blissful Peace.
The 'before and after' method outlined previously, by comparison, leads to a Primordial Silence of Union with All in God, where no trace of Duality exists. In Silent Union, attachments to the separation and distance of a 'Witness' and 'that which is witnessed' do not exist, because such perceptions no longer reside in Consciousness.
Detachment always equates to a matter of meditative subtraction rather than intellectual addition! 
Hari OM!
Doc
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2006 : 10:14:42 AM
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Hi Doc:
I believe "witnessing" as stand-alone practice tends to be overrated, especially as a first stage approach where we have little more to work with than the intellect and ego consciousness. It is a tough road to hoe from there with no other methods in hand. But it can be done if enough bhakti is present. Ask any dedicated Buddhist.
If we are using additional practices such as deep meditation and samyama to cultivate inner silence directly, then witnessing arises naturally along the way, and we can do much with it then. That kind of doing will be with less attachment, the essence of "dispassion," which is at the heart of progressive karma and jnana yoga. The interesting thing about these yogas, when undertaken propitiously, is that they are beyond duality, even though they are in the field of doing. This is possible only when the witness is already present, previously cultivated as "effect." Only then can the witness become a "cause" in our further development. Before then it is much like pushing on a string.
Of course, those born with a degree of witness consciousness already present have a "leg up." The rest of us have to develop it. Those who are born with, or have reached a high level of witness consciousness early on in life ("old souls"), tend to teach from that level, and then many begin to regard witnessing practice as the primary path to enlightenment. Well, it is a stepping stone for sure, but not a very good place to start for most of us. Better to reduce duality (bring up the witness) by more direct means before diving into the methods of non-duality. Keeping the horse in front of the cart, so to speak.
Thanks for your great perspectives, Doc and All. Very stimulating!
The guru is in you.
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Mike
United Kingdom
77 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2006 : 12:51:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Detachment always equates to a matter of meditative subtraction rather than intellectual addition!
Hey Doc you sure do buy some real classy fortune-cookies - a great way of putting it and a neat summary of what they AYP practitioners have been saying. Certainly "trying to be detached" just adds layers on layers.
I am no so sure about "witnessing" and Buddhism being that much different to what you guys are doing - esp. given that really one should say "Buddhisms". So does not for example anapanasati - "witnessing" the breath - becomes (as I understand it) similar to mantra-meditation after a while ie the "breath is breathing you"...and sometime after the collapse of the subject-object distinction?
Anyway quibbling to oneside I recalled in this context (tho' I seem not to be able to find the article) some neat words on this subject (by some Buddhist monk from Brighton (?!?))... he used an analogy for all this witnessing stuff of it being rather like sitting in front of the tv and watching it... witnessing (starts to) amount(s) (I have fogotten the precise line lol) to watching your reflection in the screen as it is watching tv... ie just creating even more "levels" interposed in the process [or was it watching your reflection watching your reflection watch tv (etc etc)].
Aum (or in this case erm? )
Mike |
Edited by - Mike on Nov 19 2006 12:54:49 PM |
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Detachment (vairagaya)
