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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 12:06:34 AM
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Over the last many months of AYP practices I have had a lot of interesting experiences in and around going to sleep and waking up. Some of the experiences that stand out are ones where my awareness seemed to become fully conscious of it/myself in one way or another.
What I am wondering is why when we sleep does this awareness of our true nature seem more accessible? Why when we are awake are we not able to see with the same clarity or experience that same reality? Hopefully people will comment on these questions.
If you are interested in the experiences here they are:
The first one that stands out, occurred about 6 months back when I awoke floating beside my body with an incredible expansive feeling of peace and bliss in my heart and body (I guess my energy body since I felt slightly above and beside my physical one). I was able to float there and enjoy this open and unfettered state, I imagine this feeling I experienced as a glimpse to where our AYP practices are taking us.
The second, more recently, was just before falling asleep. Things felt quiet inside and I became aware of being which was very peaceful and comforting. The moment I tried to think about what it was that I was feeling, I went away from being. If I tried doing nothing, I went again away from just being. When I stopped any effort in any direction, (without trying to stop) I could "be again" this unfettered isness deep inside. I know this is a very crummy description, but the best I can do though! This experience offered me good insight into what those like Tolle, Krishnamurti, Sailor Bob etc. mean when they say you can't do anything to realize yourself just be.
Sorry this last one is going to be really abstract! The third experience of significance for me was a couple of nights back, I was in deep sleep and saw how my dreams form. I witnessed my energy going out as thoughts of both positive and negative in nature and opposing itself. This friction would cause my dreams. I realized at this moment that if I were to resist or attach to those thoughts in anyway that I would perpetuate their energy. All I could do to gain freedom was to be there with them as a witness but unattached, this allowed them to dissipate. I believe that this thought energy that springs from us is the same that creates our life circumstances both positive and negative.
I enjoyed this realization the most because it made me aware that this is what our meditation practices train us to do. This is why it is so important not to force back to the mantra or attach or have aversion to the various thoughts that temporarily distract us from the mantra. We would inadvertently be perpetuating those past experiences, karma etc. that are still circulating in our beings. To gain the freedom from our suffering we need to be the witness and at ease and unruffled by our experiences, much easier said than done of course! 
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 01:50:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
What I am wondering is why when we sleep does this awareness of our true nature seem more accessible? Why when we are awake are we not able to see with the same clarity or experience that same reality? Hopefully people will comment on these questions.
The moment I tried to think about what it was that I was feeling, I went away from being. If I tried doing nothing, I went again away from just being. When I stopped any effort in any direction, (without trying to stop) I could "be again" this unfettered isness deep inside.
Hi Andrew. My response to the first paragraph is this: When we're 'awake', or in our dealing-with-the-business-of-life mode, our consciousness tends to be placed in the mind in the form of rational thought. Consciousness may move down to the heart, but it's generally not considered to be the most effective way to function when we're at work, getting groceries, going to appointments, etc. Our true nature gets temporarily lost as we revert to 2-legged upright mammal mode. Even meditation can be a struggle between thought process and heart opening, as the mind creates static and prevents us from seeing that which should be so clear. It's only during sleep, and those beautiful moments preceding sleep, when the mind grinds to a halt and our true Self shines through. This has always been my experience, and this is why I've always loved beddy time. 
My response to the second paragraph is the just more of the same: Thought is an interference to the flow of feeling. As you've demonstrated, it's very difficult to string a bunch of words together in a sentence to approximate a feeling. I understood the experiences that you were referring to, but only because I've also felt it, not because your description evoked the feeling in my mind.
Here's a question for you: How is it that we can come face-to-face with our true nature; be blinded by the light of the Self and "expanded by the peace and bliss in our hearts and bodies" to the point where you float in the unfettered state that you describe, and then a few hours later get up and eat breakfast and become fully functional? How freaking weird is that? Is the mind is designed to kick into gear whenever we reach a high level of bliss, and pull us back down from divinity to evolving ape? (obnoxious, grating voice of the mind here)------> "That's nice, Harry. Now finish your breakfast and take out the trash."
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Edited by - Manipura on Apr 04 2006 01:53:16 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 11:12:09 AM
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Andrew asked:
What I am wondering is why when we sleep does this awareness of our true nature seem more accessible? Why when we are awake are we not able to see with the same clarity or experience that same reality? Hopefully people will comment on these questions.
I've thought of this often and some day I'd like to write a big essay on it. But I haven't time now so I'll just throw out some of my thoughts.
Sleep is closely related to enlightenment. When you think about what sleep is, while experientially it can be simple and easy, scientifically it is a very, very rich and complicated process with many different phases, which are not yet known or understood, but what is clear is that it continues and completes the learning processes, helps removes traumas, and refreshes our brain physically.
And regarding learning, in sleep we are not just completing the learning of facts and data, but also learning ways of being; the learning of modes of processing and reacting. Rather than merely consolidating the absorption of new data, we are consolidating new modes of being; it is more like we are having new parts added to our mental/spiritual engines. Just as the engine of an airplane cannot be changed while it is in flight, so the new machinery of our nature cannot be added while we are awake. The airplane must be brought down into the hangar...
When you meditate, or do other kinds of Yoga, and start to dip into inner silence, your body/mind's intelligence is activated. As an analogy to what happens: during activation of the body/mind's intelligence, a technician silently marks a piece of the engine that needs changing, and proposes the replacement part. That mark stays there for some time ... when you sleep, the airplane is brought into the hangar, and they start to work on it, repairing and replacing what they can... until the part is eventually replaced over the weeks or months.
The mind/body works on putting itself in order during sleep. In the state of enlightenment, the mind/body simply keeps itself in order at a deep level. Sleep is a manifestation of the self-ordering nature of the mind-body. Enlightenment is when the self-ordering nature has become deeply established, even in the wakeful state. (This is not unusual yoga theory, though I am putting it in an unusually 'modern' or scientific way that is free of traditional Yoga terminology.)
Speaking somewhat speculatively, if and when the self-ordering processes, normally limited to sleep, can be activated without the loss of consciousness, a very powerful feedback loop is created which unleashes the body-mind's intelligence, and can start up or accelerate the process of enlightenment. I have a theory that this is what Samadhi actually is; it is the wakeful experience of certain self-ordering process of the mind that are normally confined to sleep. [ However, this does not mean that trying to remain awake while falling asleep is the best, or even a good approach towards Samadhi; regular meditation, done while awake, and the Yogic life in general, are better ones.]
So, in short, our 'awareness of our true nature' is more accessible during sleep because there is a deep conncetion between 'awareness of our true nature' and 'awareness in the presence of our self-ordering nature'; and the latter can happen if we have awareness during certain parts of the sleep cycle.
I sorry this is a splash of thoughts rather than a structured essay but I hope someone got something out of it.
-D
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Apr 04 2006 11:59:38 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 11:13:03 AM
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Hi Meg,
Thanks for your reply.
quote:
Here's a question for you: How is it that we can come face-to-face with our true nature; be blinded by the light of the Self and "expanded by the peace and bliss in our hearts and bodies" to the point where you float in the unfettered state that you describe, and then a few hours later get up and eat breakfast and become fully functional? How freaking weird is that?
Great question! I see it as glimpses into our true nature at moments where we are able to "forget" or put aside all the things (memories/ experiences) we think define us. I speculate that when we are deeply fatigued and in the process of letting go before sleep, we are able to put our waking ego temporarily aside and the background “static” subsides which helps us see with some clarity.
I believe the more we practice, the more we clear out our lingering past, the more we will know this state in our regular waking world in a more 24/7 kind of way.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 11:34:54 AM
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Hi David,
We posted at the same time. Thanks for your reply, great insights.
I see sleep more as a letting go, rather than a "very complicated process". I agree with you with what happens during sleep, but to me a lot of what you write about occurs because of the letting go process.
I have experienced resting in the void of deep inner silence as our muscles and tensions let go in our first phase of deep sleep. I believe we let go of conflicting or contradicting thoughts that in turn solidify other thoughts that are more in harmony with our current thinking patterns, which helps complete the daily learning process. We definitely work things out later on more near waking in dreams, as the lingering energies manifest and create these mini-realities (dreams), these offer us great insights into what "issues" still occupy a great deal of our waking consciousness.
I agree with you that as we become more aware that the states we achieve during sleep will manifest more readily during our waking lives. Looking forward to it!
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Edited by - Anthem on Apr 04 2006 11:35:28 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 11:49:15 AM
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Good. :)
I see sleep more as a letting go, rather than a "very complicated process".
I only meant it is complicated from a scientific point of view, which was just my way of suggesting how rich it is -- yes, it is letting go, not complicated for the experiencer. I edited to clarify. :) |
Edited by - david_obsidian on Apr 04 2006 11:58:11 AM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 12:24:20 PM
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Or . . . "letting go into a very rich process". Sleep is for most people the only time that they can completely surrender to the internal processes. I like the airplane/hangar analogy a lot. There is no choice; we MUST sleep, and in the necessity of it we unwittingly come into contact with something: God/Self/inner silence/the maintenance guy (gal?) in the hangar.
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
I see it as glimpses into our true nature at moments where we are able to "forget" or put aside all the things (memories/ experiences) we think define us.
This is a great answer. We're such story-telling creatures, always creating narratives to bolster our self-image. In sleep there is no story, no image to maintain. This is a big part of my work at the moment - letting go of stories and letting things just BE. This requires not indulging in nostalgia.
(nostalgia = selective memory = convenient amnesia) |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 12:43:17 PM
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Meg said:
We're such story-telling creatures, always creating narratives to bolster our self-image. In sleep there is no story, no image to maintain. This is a big part of my work at the moment - letting go of stories and letting things just BE. This requires not indulging in nostalgia.
Indeed. And we may think, from our ego standpoint, that we are heroically involved in producing our enlightenment. The truth is that all the real work is done by automatic processes; at best, we can do the things that catalyze the automatic processes, and then stay out of the way as much as possible of the Great Work. We may think we are heroically finding God. Ha ha ha. The truth is not nearly so flattering: God is finding us, and replacing all of our parts in the process.
I like the way that came out. Maybe I'll post it in 'Illuminated poetry and quotations'.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Apr 04 2006 12:54:31 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 1:17:33 PM
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I wonder, then, if as we get closer to THAT, we need more sleep. Getting back to Andrew's original point, "What I am wondering is why when we sleep does this awareness of our true nature seem more accessible?", maybe the best we can do is crawl into bed (read: out of the way) and let the work happen. Clearly my assistance isn't necessary.
I remember when I was a kid I always wanted to help my mother make a cake, but I was in her way, so she sat me across the kitchen on a stool and had me lick the bowl clean. Tasty, but it irritated me that she thought I was so daft as to think that I was actually 'helping' her by doing such a thing. In truth, I was. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2006 : 1:24:08 PM
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I wonder, then, if as we get closer to THAT, we need more sleep.
In the short run we may need more sleep at times, to assist 'purification'. But in the long run, people tend to need less as a result of enlightenment; because there is not as much happening to create the impurities for which sleep is needed for their removal.
maybe the best we can do is crawl into bed (read: out of the way) and let the work happen.
That's definitely one of the best things we can do when it is time to go to bed. But it is not one of the best things we can do when it isn't!
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nearoanoke
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2006 : 12:01:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
maybe the best we can do is crawl into bed (read: out of the way) and let the work happen.
Thats why may be there's a limit on the number of hours we can sleep. No shortcuts on the road of enlightenment. :) |
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rabar
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 9:02:03 PM
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I think that in deep sleep, as in death, we merge with the Source. During deep sleep we are 'extinguished' in nirvana, albeit not conscious to 'realize' it.
My reasoning that follows from this is, 'what do I do in deep sleep that can be easily duplicated while awake?' The answer is, 'deeply relax, and also the sort of breathing I do when deeply relaxed.' From this evolved my interest in various type of 'loud breathing' that I observed by listening to my dear life-partner asleep next to me. I suppose that the 'mantra' for this would be the 'sighing breath' or "Unh-hunh." "Unh-hunh-ing" in and out then led me to investigate the snore/purr that I've written about here extensively. These sound meditations still remain my favorites, and I try to practice them first thing upon awakening. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Apr 16 2006 : 11:39:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
The moment I tried to think about what it was that I was feeling, I went away from being. If I tried doing nothing, I went again away from just being. When I stopped any effort in any direction, (without trying to stop) I could "be again" this unfettered isness deep inside. I know this is a very crummy description, but the best I can do though! This experience offered me good insight into what those like Tolle, Krishnamurti, Sailor Bob etc. mean when they say you can't do anything to realize yourself just be.
I offered a fresh shortcut in a thread a couple of weeks ago that speaks to this. You know the condition of "brain fart" - reaching for a forgotten word or being stopped dead in your tracks, unable to remember what you were about to do? For a moment, thinking stops, trying stops, it all stops and you're just there.
Most people consider such moments to be creepy and frustrating. And since we've all experienced it, it's something we can cultivate. The ability to stall the mind into a brain-farty fogginess is super helpful (and would have rescued you from the paradox described above). I'm not talking about an advanced state of no-mind. Just a poor-mans version. Call it "a lot less mind" :)
Interestingly, one's awareness can remain razor sharp regardless. No matter how spacey our mind may be, no matter how we may be desperately trying to remember a phone number to dial on our cellphone or keep up an intense conversation, we still manage, while all that is happening to avoid colliding with other pedestrians, to pour a drink, to register our perceptions, and otherwise function with sentience even when there's little or no cognition being applied to those other things. The brain's just a (useful) appendage. |
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rabar
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2006 : 6:52:00 PM
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My cairn terrier Riqui curled up next to my head the other evening, and I listened to his relaxed breathing. He began to sigh on the inhale, I was pleased to notice, as he drifted off to sleep. 'Uuh-hunh,' or 'Ah-ham' or 'So-ham' or even in French, where God's name is 'Henri...'
inhale: hongggggg
exhale: reeeeee (french 'r')
or "Henriette...."
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2006 : 8:26:57 PM
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The Yoga Sutras say there are five types of mental activity: understanding, misunderstanding, imagination, sleep and memory. It goes on to say about sleep, "Sleep is the mental activity that has as its content the sense of nothingness (1:10)." Then it says, "These five types of mental activity are settled through the practice of yoga and the freedom it bestows (1:12)."
So, according to my translation of the Yoga Sutras, deep sleep isn't merging with the source. I mean, I go into deep sleep every night for lengthy periods of time and I haven't attained God-consciousness yet! I think the trick is being awake while we drop all mental activity...samadhi.
Hope this helps...
-Scott |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2006 : 8:44:05 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by rabar
"My reasoning that follows from this is, 'what do I do in deep sleep that can be easily duplicated while awake?' The answer is, 'deeply relax, and also the sort of breathing I do when deeply relaxed.' From this evolved my interest in various type of 'loud breathing' that I observed by listening to my dear life-partner asleep next to me. "
Rabar,
Thanks for that observation. I enjoyed your web page too.
http://www.raysender.com/snore.html |
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rabar
USA
64 Posts |
Posted - Aug 18 2006 : 10:14:27 PM
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Scott wrote:
quote:
I go into deep sleep every night for lengthy periods of time and I haven't attained God-consciousness yet! I think the trick is being awake while we drop all mental activity...samadhi.
I think we agree, Scott. To achieve the cessation of mental activity that deep sleep points to while still retaining awareness I think will place us in one of the various jhana (absorption) states.
And thanks for the good word, bewell!
Apologies for not checking in more often, but life's been busy. I'm still hoping to start up a San Francisco meditation site in September, goddess willing!
I'm still using the "dropped soft palate" resonant breath in meditation. Wouldn't make me popular in a group setting, but fine at home! Actually the challenge is to see how subvocal I can get the "purr/snore" so I can do it in public!
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Aug 19 2006 : 08:48:24 AM
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| Sweet experiences!!! Keep it up! |
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Deep sleep - connection to realization?
