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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 19 2008 : 2:22:43 PM
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Well, it's been a while since I've posted here. I'm back on AYP after allowing myself to push and pull life for a while, which of course resulted in misery. This second time around feels different.
Actually, maybe in doesn't feel like anything at all. What I mean is that I just practice morning and night without aspirations. That's it. Spirituality for me began with Yogananda and Kriya Yoga where intense devotion to God was noted as a necessary part of the enlightenment equation.
There is no higher purpose I am aspiring to. No God or Guru my heart melts for, no desire to unbury the ball of light by removing the dirty laundry it is trapped under.
My body and mind have just seemed to accept the practices as a daily routine. The sun rises and falls, I sit and practice. Like that.
The AYP lessons mention the importance of Ishta to stay devoted to the path. In the past I willed myself to build a devotional fire with the wet logs of my heart, to no avail. My practices were up and down like emotions, never steady and persistent. Now the practices are ingrained, I do them, but with no feeling.
Will an Ishta eventually show up? Has anyone else just gone through the motions of AYP with little feeling? |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2008 : 2:54:40 PM
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In the glossary it says:
quote:
Ishta – Means, “chosen ideal.” Ishta is at the heart of bhakti yoga, and is that which each person chooses as the ideal to inspire active engagement on the spiritual path. The ishta can be as simple as the constant question, “Who am I?” and its gradually unfolding answer. Or as complex as a guru in human form. Any object or idea can serve as the touchstone for a person’s ishta – statues, philosophical concepts, the beauty of nature, etc. What all ishtas have in common is their ability to inspire the aspirant to diligently pursue spiritual practices.
The closest I have come is that I perhaps more often now than before come back to the "Who am I" question. But I haven't "chosen" that to be my ishta. I have no chosen focus but to keep the twice a day practices as steady as possible. Does that count as Ishta?
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2008 : 7:55:09 PM
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quote:
My body and mind have just seemed to accept the practices as a daily routine. The sun rises and falls, I sit and practice. Like that.
That's perfect, That is the best way to approach your practices 
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The closest I have come is that I perhaps more often now than before come back to the "Who am I" question. But I haven't "chosen" that to be my ishta. I have no chosen focus but to keep the twice a day practices as steady as possible. Does that count as Ishta?
Yes you don't have to choose your ishta your ishta chooses you!!!
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2008 : 9:41:52 PM
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quote:
Yes you don't have to choose your ishta your ishta chooses you!!! - Richard
Hi Richard,
I do hope you are right about that. It sounds 'right' to me too, because then, I don't have to bother anymore. Which suits me well. 
Hi Insideout,
Though I never felt a lack of 'feeling' in the AYP practices, just a couple of days ago, the question of surrender rose in my mind. I felt I was not surrendering enough. This was tailed by the issue of the 'ishta'. I began feeling that people with an ishta of some sort engage in bhakti and surrender more readily than people who don't, and perhaps having an ishta makes it easier to drop the noisy intellect when needed. However, I do hold a concept of the 'ultimate truth', which, however vague, must be my driving force.
But then, again, there are so many routes... as many routes as persons, really. Perhaps you arrive at a crossroad and pause to ask such questions. So Insideout, ask, and it shall be revealed to you. Here or inside you. For I asked, and here you are bringing up that question. Thank you. I wait with you for the other beings here to anaswer. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 19 2008 : 9:52:09 PM
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At times what we think is a disadvantage actually works in our favor.. the fact you don't have an ishta.. but have bhakti in your practice/truth is your greatest blessing.. and if you don't see it now.. you will soon. And wow!!! not many can do what you are doing.. "My body and mind have just seemed to accept the practices as a daily routine. The sun rises and falls, I sit and practice. Like that.".. kudos to you for this.
I have zero blessings when it comes to scenery.. I have gone through phases of being disappointed and felt there was something lacking in me, that I was born "third eye blind"  .. but in a way it has been a blessing.. since during my meditation I see nothing.. I practice with no distractions or attachment to scenery and that I think has helped me see and experience more openings. I still wish I could see all the wonderful things that people talk about at the forum.. and I know.. the day I can drop this.. the desire to experience scenery.. I will experience it.. (and even the thought that I need to drop .. I need to drop....).
So your lack of having an ishta.. which too is a scenery.. a walking stick to tide you through the first phase.. is not really required.. You will soon realize.. being attached to an ishta too has to be dropped.. because any attachment is an ego story.. and you are ahead of the game already in that aspect. .
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Edited by - Shanti on Jan 19 2008 10:00:13 PM |
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Black Rebel Radio
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2008 : 12:16:10 AM
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I think the only ishta is longing.
For the unquenchable.
Behind all thirsts.
Peace
Mac |
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Jan 20 2008 : 3:06:09 PM
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quote:
I have no chosen focus but to keep the twice a day practices as steady as possible.
So I'm not the only one who is really not longing for anything, just doing the practices. I'm in good company with emc
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So your lack of having an ishta.. which too is a scenery.. a walking stick to tide you through the first phase.. is not really required.. You will soon realize.. being attached to an ishta too has to be dropped..
Never thought of it that way. I always had this idea that we needed to be on fire for God/Truth/whatever to funnel energy into our practices. The problem may be trying to force that fire, instead of letting it build over time as the nervous system purifies. Practice --> Bhakti --> More practice --> More Bhakti... Sounds like a nice upward spiral. |
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 01:22:52 AM
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| ecstatic bliss is my ishta |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2008 : 10:59:01 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 04:23:04 AM
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Hi insideout.
Thanks for sharing.
Can I ask you.....the misery you experienced that brought you back here......what motivated you for the "push and pull" in the first place?
Hidden in this motivation - is your ishta.
It will surface ("come to you") when you investigate this motivation.
The best tool for investigation i know of, is your own awareness. The silence you cultivate when meditating. It is great that you meditate regularly. This is no small thing. It is a treasure to be able to do that.
The motivation that makes you meditate is the same that draws you towards the "pushing and pulling" in life.
Results will come, insideout. This is absolutely inevitable
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2008 : 1:49:36 PM
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quote:
Can I ask you.....the misery you experienced that brought you back here......what motivated you for the "push and pull" in the first place?
Hi Katrine, I've been thinking about your question and I can't come to a clear answer. Maybe it is the avoidance of a meaningless, unsatisfying life?
For about 10 years after graduating high school I lived in various spiritual communities and went to school. My practices at the time were haphazard with periods of excess purification and periods of regression.
Since I got married 3 years ago I finished school and started a professional career. It's possible that the stability that ensued in my life was carried over into yoga.
Whatever the case may be, I will keep doing practices. Because, really, what else is there to do? |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2008 : 3:44:25 PM
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----subsequently added--------
I'll leave this posting up, but the posting below is a lot clearer, FWIW, so you may want to skip to that.
---------------------------
Seeking satisfaction via money, sex, power, etc, is like sucking the universe through the narrowest straw. Frustrating. Impossible. But you get a very intense flavor! :)
Seeking satisfaction via one's guru is like sucking the universe through a wide pipe. Much more flow, much more expansive. The flavor is a bit thin and diluted; only appreciated by aficionados. But it's still constricting, because the universe doesn't fit in a pipe.
Seeking satisfaction via Ishta/God/etc is like sucking the universe through a great big map of everything. It's so dilute that most people can't even taste it. But, in the end, you realize that the map's only a paper-thin abstract representation. It just looked infinite because you couldn't see that it was a mere model. And if you keep holding on to it, it becomes a straw!
As long as you're able to still "taste" it, it's best to just let go of the whole thing. Let your bhakti pour out and in, en masse, and don't sweat the channel, the model, the pipe, the lens. If the flavor starts getting too thin and dilute, then pick a lens from among those above (it truly doesn't matter...random is fine), and let the bhakti flow. But until the flavor thins to blandness for you, there's no lack. So just keep going!
Obviously, I'm speaking to your intuition - your poetic metaphorical mind. This all makes no sense to the logical mind (if it does make rational sense, then you're missing it!). |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 16 2008 08:20:47 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2008 : 08:10:39 AM
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I've been thinking of a way to state the above in a more analytical way. Here goes.
When we surrender, we surrender to Everything. But the human mind can't process Everything...and the mind, at first, insists on having a part in it. So it is suggested that we begin our process of surrender by directing it toward a more specific Something - as a jumping-off point for eventual surrender to Everything (which comes when we are able to remove mind from the equation).
And that Something can be whatever draws your bhakti. It doesn't matter so much what the Something is, so long as 1. it doesn't harm you, and 2. you eventually make that leap from the specific and don't just get stuck there. Getting stuck worshipping a specific Something and never making that transcendent leap is what addiction is.
Alcoholics have plenty of bhakti, but in surrendering to a terribly specific and material Something, they find the "leap" phenomenally hard to make. But some do make it. AA is about helping people leap to at least a less specific (and certainly less physically harmful) Something....in their case: "God".
Gurus are slightly less concrete, and, if the guru is conscientious, they're a little less harmful and addictive. But not everyone has sufficient bhakti to really surrender to a guru. They're less of a draw than whisky (especially for skeptical westerners)!
Ishtas are less specific still. Whereas whiskey makes no claim of representing Everything, and gurus TALK about representing Everything but their adherents rarely understand, an Ishta at least models Everything. But a model is still a Something. And for most people, an ishta is quite a weak draw.
The weaker the draw, the harder the surrender. The stronger the draw, the harder the escape from the specific.
Your bhakti is, so far, taking you where you need to go without intermediate specific Somethings. This is good. Less to have to escape from later. So don't sweat it! As they say: if you need one, a guru (mistranslated as "teacher"...a spiritual guru's main job being to serve as stand-in for Everything) will appear. The same's true of Ishtas. Like the guru, they appear when Everything becomes too elusive. Just be wary of backtracking to (and getting stuck on) a MUCH more specific Something!
This is just more mind food, of course, taking you away from Everything and into the muck of the Specific. Really, all you need to do is sit down and say "I am" over and over and over. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 16 2008 08:55:26 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2008 : 08:56:43 AM
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quote:
This is just more mind food, of course, taking you away from Everything and into the muck of the Specific. Really, all you need to do is sit down and say "I am" over and over and over.
Is there any way that can be added on as a footer to every single forum posting?  |
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